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[RESOLVED] Delete Top N with "AND" question-VBForums
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Thread: [RESOLVED] Delete Top N with "AND" question

  1. #1

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    Resolved [RESOLVED] Delete Top N with "AND" question

    SQL Code:
    1. DELETE Top (76)
    2. FROM accounts
    3. WHERE JurID = 341
    4. AND PropertyCity IS NULL
    Result: (51 row(s) affected)
    There were 176 records. 128 record had a null for PropertyCity. When I ran this, all 128 with null PropertyCity were deleted leaving me with 48 rows. I was expecting it to delete the top 76 where PropertyCity was null. More baffling is the message of 51 rows affected when it deleted 128. I can't see any correlation to 48, 128, and 176. Easy since its' an odd number. Is Area 51 affecting my T-SQL? :-)
    I would like to understand what's happening. I tried searching the web but using "AND" to narrow down "Delete Top N" but "and" is useless because it's a noise word. Obviously it deleted all where the PropertyCity was null. These nulls were randomly scattered so the best thing I can figure is that instead of combining the conditions, it performed two steps. I suspect it might have deleted the top 76 where PropertyCity was null, then it deleted all that JurID = 341 where the PropertyCity was null. In effect it resulted in a negation of the Top (76). This might explain the 51. Is this what's happening. I'd like to learn why it didn't work as expected.
    As a practical matter I think I should have used a "Where in" select block so there's no need to make that suggestion. I'm confident that will work, I'm just trying to understand how the query I wrote executed.

  2. #2
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I've never seen the Top used with a delete... didn't know that was possible... not sure it ever occurred to me to try... that said...
    since you're trying to delete a subset of the data, I would have created a select that returns the top 76 ids to delete... then done a delete where in on that result:
    Code:
    delect from accounts
    where id in (select top (76) from accounts where jurid = 341 and propertycity is null)
    At least then I can isolate the select and make sure the right rows are to be deleted.

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Thanks techgnome. The last part of my message I was hoping to prevent you from wasting time with the Select example. I know that' show I should have done it. Thanks all the same but I wasn't looking for a solution, I'm wanting to understand why it worded that way. I' want to understand more about it's process.

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    PowerPoster Zvoni's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Everything i found was along the lines of
    sql Code:
    1. DELETE FROM accounts
    2. WHERE ID IN
    3. (SELECT TOP(76) * FROM accounts WHERE JurID=341 AND PropertyCity IS NULL ORDER BY WhatEver)

    EDIT: tg was quicker *g*
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Yes, thank you. But I know that as I explained in my message. I'm more interested in why the first query functioned the way it did.

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Stab in the dark: Because you didn't define an ORDER BY-Clause
    Meaning: Your query took the first 76 Rows (in random order from accounts) and found only 51 records matching your criteria in those 76 rows

    But it's a wild guess from me
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Interesting Idea. I'll do some testing this afternoon.

  8. #8
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Quote Originally Posted by cory_jackson View Post
    I'm wanting to understand why it worded that way. I' want to understand more about it's process.
    In short - I don't know because as I stated I've never used Top with a delete the way you did. It just seems too risky to me (as your results seem to show).

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    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Quote Originally Posted by cory_jackson View Post
    I'm wanting to understand why it worded that way. I' want to understand more about it's process.
    One thing you may want to try is running it with the execution plan... that might give some insight into what it's doing.

    -tg
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Whats that?
    Also, isn't there some way of seeing on the SQL server a lower level of commands? Like MSIL for SQL?

  11. #11
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Go into SSMS and BEFORE you run the query go into the QUERY menu up top and select SHOW ACTUAL EXECUTION plan.

    That will show you the MSIL for SQL (as you put it!)

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I tried mocking up a test and got the correct result:-

    Code:
    create table #Temp (Field1 int, Field2 int)
    
    Insert into #Temp
    Values	(1,1), (1, 1), (1, 1), (1, null),
    		(1,1), (1, 1), (1, 1), (1, null),
    		(1,1), (1, 1), (1, 1), (1, null),
    		(1,1), (1, 1), (1, 1), (1, null),
    		(1,1), (1, 1), (1, 1), (1, null),
    		(1,1), (1, 1), (1, 1), (1, null)
    
    Select * From #Temp
    Select * From #Temp Where Field1 = 1 and Field2 is null
    Select Top 2 * From #Temp Where Field1 = 1 and Field2 is null
    Delete Top (2) From #Temp Where Field1 = 1 and Field2 is null
    Select * From #Temp
    
    Drop Table #Temp
    First select returned 24 rows, 6 meet the criteria, top 2 returns 2.
    Delete top 2 deleted 2
    Final select returned 22 rows
    All messages are as expected

    At the risk of adding to your frustration with a dumbass question, how sure are you that your observations were correct? Ie how many records met the criteria, that you definitely included the top and how many records were left.

    I think my test is as close to your scenario as I can realistically set up without more knowledge but, in case there's some other factor at play that we're not considering, would it be possible to restore the state of the table and rerun your query? E.g. by restoring a recent backup?
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  13. #13

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    That's not a dumb question at all and thanks for running the experiment. I was thinking I need to restore that data in any case so once I have it, I'll do some experiments. BBS.

  14. #14
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Go into SSMS and BEFORE you run the query go into the QUERY menu up top and select SHOW ACTUAL EXECUTION plan.

    That will show you the MSIL for SQL (as you put it!)

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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    What an odd double post that was...

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  16. #16
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Does ACCOUNTS table have a trigger that also "removes" rows based on some other criteria?

    ACCOUNTS is a table - not a view - right?

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I don't know what a trigger is. It is a simple table.

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I don't know what a trigger is
    It's a bit of code that's automatically run when an action is carried out on a table. E.g. Someone might decide that, whenever an account is deleted, all related accounts should be deleted at the same time. They'd code it up and put it in a trigger so that it happens automatically. Triggers are notorious for causing problems like this because it's not immediately obvious they're there.

    To check, browse to the table in SSMS and expand it's node. There will be a "Triggers" node underneath it. Expand that and make sure there's nothing showing in there.
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Interesting. I learned something! What a cool feature. Yea, I could see how that would really mess with a person.
    I have no triggers.

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I found the execution plan but in my version it is called something like "Estimated Execution Plan".
    Name:  1.png
Views: 54
Size:  7.1 KBName:  2.png
Views: 54
Size:  11.3 KBName:  3.png
Views: 51
Size:  11.3 KB
    I left out the last one which was to get the list. I can see two delete operations but I'm still not sure what it means. The first delete says it will affect 76 rows but the second one is labeled "Top 76".

    Please note the numbers can be off by one as my backup set I restored was 175, not 176.

    I'll do some experiments after lunch.

  21. #21
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Make sure you do your DELETE in a BEGIN TRAN / ROLLBACK block.

    This will allow you to retry it over and over again.

    This is where the ACTUAL EXECUTION plan is...
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I never used the being tran and rollback. Interesting. I looked at the actual execution plan but the operations look the same as the ones I posted earlier.

  23. #23
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I use BEGIN TRAN and ROLLBACK in EVERY single "fixup" query I ever write.

    Do it once with the rollback to make sure 1 row is affected and that I'm not deleting or updating an entire table!

    Code:
    begin tran
    select * from PartMonthly_T Where PartId in (281,665,231) and NoteDate>='2017-01-01'
    Update PartMonthly_T Set NoteDateEnd='2017-01-01'
         Where PartId in (281,665,231) and NoteDate='2017-01-01'
    Update PartMonthly_T Set NoteDate='2017-02-01'
         Where PartId in (281,665,231) and NoteDate='2017-03-01'
    select * from PartMonthly_T Where PartId in (281,665,231) and NoteDate>='2017-01-01'
    rollback--commit

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    That's a great idea. I'll be doing the same thing form now on. I suppose I can selectively execute parts of the query as well by highlighting as well. Then I can highlight Commit or Rollback.

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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I have done it that way as well. Just be careful your highlighting includes the WHERE clause!

    The thing is that I work on lots of production databases - even have some DBA contracts (even though I'm really a coder!). No mistakes allowed - period.

    It's the old "aw shitake - atta boy" ratio. Takes a real lot of "atta boy's" to make someone forget your one "aw shitake"!

    [edit] It allows shitake! [/edit]
    Last edited by szlamany; Jul 30th, 2018 at 03:50 PM.

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  26. #26

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    Re: Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I recreated the rows I had before and deleted one undesirable resulting in 175 new rows with different IDs. The order should have been the same. I ran the original query and it's working now as I expected the first time. I'm disappointed that I am not able to reproduce the problem. I told it to delete the top 75 and it did exactly that. I have no explanation. But I thank you all for the tricks, especially the rollback. I should be able to catch these in the future before it happens.

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Shitake ratio. I love it.

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    Re: [RESOLVED] Delete Top N with "AND" question

    I use BEGIN TRAN and ROLLBACK in EVERY single "fixup" query I ever write.
    +1 to that. Like Sz I work against production DBs all the time and a mistake can mean big downtime while trying to recover and even then a full recovery may not be possible. It can have very real and very big financial impacts.

    The basic form I use goes something like :-
    Code:
    1. Select the data I expect to affect
    2. Begin Transaction
    3. Run the Update/Delete/Insert
    4. EXACTLY the same Select as in Step 1
    5. RollBack Transaction
    This allows you to see what you think's going to happen, as well as what did happen (or will happen when you run it for real). Plus you get to cast your eye over the messages (second tab, next to the results pane) to see the number of records affect - this just makes sure you're not affecting additional rows you hadn't considered. As long as everything looks good you can change the rollback to a commit and rerun the script.

    The one caveat: don't leave open transactions on a production database. They block resources and stop other operations from working. I'm working on a database that sits behind a customer facing ordering website. If I leave an open transaction it can literally stop the business as customers can't place orders and they WILL go elsewhere. So I have two rules:-
    1. Don't do it if the process is going to take more than a couple of second (anything more than a second is questionable)
    2. Always run the script, including the Rollback in it's entirety. Don't be tempted to manually run the first bit, look at the results and then decide whether to commit or rollback. You WILL get distracted and forget to run the commit/rollback.
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  29. #29
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: [RESOLVED] Delete Top N with "AND" question

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    I use BEGIN TRAN and ROLLBACK in EVERY single "fixup" query I ever write.
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    +1 to that. Like Sz I work against production DBs all the time and a mistake can mean big downtime while trying to recover and even then a full recovery may not be possible. It can have very real and very big financial impacts.
    +1 both of those. I even do that on non-production databases, that allows me to find problems and re-run the operations until they are correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post

    The basic form I use goes something like :-
    Code:
    1. Select the data I expect to affect
    2. Begin Transaction
    3. Run the Update/Delete/Insert
    4. EXACTLY the same Select as in Step 1
    5. RollBack Transaction
    This allows you to see what you think's going to happen, as well as what did happen (or will happen when you run it for real). Plus you get to cast your eye over the messages (second tab, next to the results pane) to see the number of records affect - this just makes sure you're not affecting additional rows you hadn't considered. As long as everything looks good you can change the rollback to a commit and rerun the script.
    That's the exact same approach I use each time to. It gives you a before-after view of the data.


    [quoter=FunkyDexter;5306291]
    The one caveat: don't leave open transactions on a production database. They block resources and stop other operations from working. I'm working on a database that sits behind a customer facing ordering website. If I leave an open transaction it can literally stop the business as customers can't place orders and they WILL go elsewhere. So I have two rules:-
    1. Don't do it if the process is going to take more than a couple of second (anything more than a second is questionable)
    2. Always run the script, including the Rollback in it's entirety. Don't be tempted to manually run the first bit, look at the results and then decide whether to commit or rollback. You WILL get distracted and forget to run the commit/rollback.[/QUOTE]
    That's why by default I rollback transaction at the end of each of my scripts. I keep the commit commented out until everything is all nice and neat and tidy (not just neat, not just tidy, but neat AND tidy). Then I let'er rip with the commit uncommented.

    -tg
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