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Thread: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

  1. #41
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I expect we'll ALL be retired, or worse, before MS can let go of 32-bit SysWoW.
    Ok, given the likely age-average here in the VB6-Forum - make it 10 years instead of 6...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'm sure they'd like to, but there's just too much running on that.
    Speaking for the LOB-App we are still shipping here - it is the sole remaining reason
    on about 90% of our customers PCs (which in the meantime nearly all run Win10 BTW),
    why the MS-Office-package has to be installed in its 32Bit-version (besides MS-Office with Outlook, Word, Excel
    there's only 64Bit "Satellite-Apps" on these "Office-machines" - as e.g. Image-Viewers and -tools, as well as the usual PDF-reader-App.

    Olaf

  2. #42
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Im sure, 2024, when Microsoft is releasing a 64bit only windows, people will not move to it.
    We will be on 7 and 10 until Microsoft will offer some "optional" 32bit support.

    So, all the people that want to use my tools and games, they will need:
    - do not upgrade to windows 2024
    - download optional 32bit support
    - download vm or 32bit loaders etc.

    now, 2030, we will start to feel its time to take it to the next windows, we can not use the old 10 anymore, or can we?
    12 years in the future and im sure computers are even more powerful and to run a 32bit exe will be like running dos using dosbox.

    also, remember Windows XP Mode? Im sure there will be something similar for Windows 2024, that with ease we can run 32bits.
    and, why think the worse? why not focus on solutions and that we will survive?

    also, 32bit is good enough. is like using a 32 channel tracker to compose music. do we really need 64 channels or can we do well and produce good music with 32 channels? the same with VB6. we can do quite good with it, 64bit will not change much, maybe in some fields but usually not, that is why i think, even in the future its not that we need more and more, sure, when computers gets very complex with vr and ai, but if we get there we will surely not use any language we know of today, it will be something new.
    Last edited by baka; Apr 21st, 2018 at 08:12 PM.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

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    "We want the last of the VB Interceptors. That's all we want. Just walk away."

  4. #44
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    hypothetical, maybe windows 10 transform to something like a linux os, with modular parts, which make any customer to replace any part with the proper one for his needs. So an option for 32 bit application can be an add-on for the user.
    Speaking for the os of tomorrow, any new technology in the foreground has to battle more than those new technologies in past times, with that which replace, not for proving value, but for any "damages" that can apply to other areas, in os, like to prevent the running of 32bit applications.
    Thinking the future, the next big step for an OS, can be the use of virtual address not in pc level but in a cloud. Any address of a function has to be unique for entire world, and to call it you have to get permission, with or without cost. The benefits for this capability will be the sharing cost of technology per call, which somehow the user pay to the programmer, to maintain the code, and the easy of upgrade which never alter the original address. Also the function code will be executed in a specific by programmer processor architecture, and that can be transparent to user. Com components then shall be die, and vb6 together. My point here is that com objects are in Microsoft world, with or without remote use, marked by a GUID, which is very good for the moment, but for moving to the cloud operations this has to change to something opened for all systems. The use of such an address, in the world space, plus a way to get permission per call demand a 64bit address or more. That is where Vb6 die. Pc memory then can be used for temporary use, using the same expanded virtual address, with unique address sub space, and a passing by reference to the cloud function will mean to grand permission to function to alter it. Another benefit for this can be the drop of ipv6 for the use of world space of virtual addresses. We will get response from a site using only the address from world space, and the transaction can be trusty because response from server done to specific unique address sub space on the caller pc or tablet or phone. At the destroy of any pc,tablet or phone, the unique address space shall be given to a main registry to reenter it in a new machine. This system as described here has another situation, the transaction to the cloud can't be hide and maybe a new law can be apply to exclude of use for a specific machine, and that introduce the "pc in jail", or blocked pc.

  5. #45
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    That's also not true, because your code sits serverside (and won't get downloaded to unauthorized clients, if you implement that).
    You do know I was talking about desktop apps right? How does the code of a desktop app end up being server side code?

    Yes it is totally possible that JS has changed a lot since the last I really looked into it but if it has evolved beyond scripting then it is not really JS any more is it.

  6. #46

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    As I was reading the responses to this thread I saw this:

    http://www.javaxt.com/Tutorials/Visu...s_Platform_SDK

    Is there any way this would work for vb6 apps? my guess is no because the msvb6vm.dll is 32 bit... But would this allow for command line change to c2.exe and link.exe? Could the msvb6vm.dll decompiled?

    Not a compiler guy, so I have no clue what I am saying, just wanted to through it out there

    wp

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    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    the less schools teach it
    Wow! Is VB6 still being taught
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    I think 32 bit is still too much around in many apps in the business world that I can't imagine if it's not supported. My guess is that on 2024 there will be still an support in whatever form.
    Maybe in 20 years we don't even need 64 bit anymore as the new computers are in qbits. (New quantum platform)

  9. #49
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    "...your code sits serverside..."
    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    You do know I was talking about desktop apps right?
    Sure.

    And JS-driven Desktop-Apps run (on Windows) as any other Process(-Executable).
    They consist of "hard code" (Forms, which show a Form-covering Browser-Control) - plus
    "dynamically loaded" code + other resources, which (later on) will fill up these "blank BrowserControls".

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    How does the code of a desktop app end up being server side code?
    I did not write "serverside code" (because that usually means "backend-code that runs serverside").
    I wrote about (clientside) code that "sits serverside" (in a File, a DB or directly as a resource in the Executable).

    The term "serverside" is usually meant in the given context as: "the other end(point) of an RPC".

    And such Remote-Procedure-Calls are usually triggered from the clientside, then:
    - retrieving Resources (the acronym "URL" has meaning - it was not choosen out of thin air)
    - and these Resources can be static ones, or "dynamically generated ones" (serverside)
    - the term "download" then describing the "transfer of these resources to the caller"

    And yes, these RPCs (usually done via Ajax, when we talk about Browsers or BrowserControls),
    can run entirely "InProcess" (so there is not necessarily a "separate Host-Machine" involved).

    Now it is left to your imagination, where (and how) exactly these (serverside) resources are stored
    (in the context of a Desktop-App).

    They *can* (of course) be also located on a separated INTRAnet- (or INTERnet-)Host-machine,
    (which would not change our labelling of such a Win-Process as "Desktop-App" at all BTW) -
    but they easily can also reside completely "InProcess" (e.g. in an encrypted ResourceBlob,
    which was "compiled into" your Desktop-Executable.

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    Yes it is totally possible that JS has changed a lot since the last I really looked into it...
    I don't know why you insist on a "possibility of change", when it was already pointed out, that it "has changed".

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    ...but if it has evolved beyond scripting then it is not really JS any more is it.
    The nature of many Scripting-languages has changed over the years (many of them running
    at "near native speed" now, due to optimized JIT-like interpretation and compiling-stages).

    What has not changed, is the capability to "dynamically add and execute new code-snippets at runtime".
    So in that regard "JavaScript is still JavaScript"...

    But of course (whilst still being compatible to "your old scripts" - the standard has evolved:
    https://codeburst.io/javascript-***-...t-dca859e4821c

    Olaf

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, that would sure surprise me. Similarities between JavaScript and VB6:

    1) They're both based in the English language character set.
    2) They both run on computers.
    3).....

    Can't think of a third similarity. What am I missing? I was going to say that they both have integers, except, of course, that JS does not.

    Try harder.

  11. #51
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Yeah it is pretty hard to see much similarity. There isn't even much similarity between JavaScript and VBScript.

    From the questions you see posted I believe that most people who hack out JavaScript don't even know what's going on, just like Lua plinkers in the game community. "Copy/paste and slap at it until it sort of does what you originally were after" seems to be the fundamental technique used.

    Worse yet, that seems to be a defining characteristic now no matter what language is used. StackOverflow is a great place to see hilarious stuff if you need a laugh.


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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Is there any way this would work for vb6 apps? my guess is no because the msvb6vm.dll is 32 bit...
    Yeah, I'm doubtful it would work. AFAIK, the VB6 compiler only emits 32-bit object code, so even if a newer version of LINK.EXE was used and "/MACHINE:AMD64" was explicitly specified, the linking process most likely still won't succeed.

    There is some hope, however, for 32-bit programs running on Windows 64-bit OSs. I recently came across this helper library and I believe it might prove valuable in certain situations:

    Quote Originally Posted by ReWolf
    rewolf-wow64ext

    WOW64Ext is a helper library for x86 programs that runs under WOW64 layer on x64 versions of Microsoft Windows operating systems. It enables x86 applications to read, write and enumerate memory of a native x64 applications. There is also possibility to call any x64 function from 64-bits version of NTDLL through a special function called X64Call(). As a bonus, wow64ext.h contains definitions of some structures that might be useful for programs that want to access PEB, TEB, TIB etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    But would this allow for command line change to c2.exe and link.exe?
    I'm not sure I completely understand your question, but if you want to specify custom C2.EXE and/or LINK.EXE switches, there are at least two ways that it can be done. The old approach is to create an EXE that intercepts, modifies and then passes along the command line arguments to either C2.EXE or LINK.EXE. The newer, easier approach uses an undocumented .VBP section and was first demonstrated here (you can use Google to translate it to English).

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    [...]
    Last edited by dz32; Apr 26th, 2019 at 11:22 AM.

  14. #54
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Coding challenge

    Make VB7 using Android Studio....

    Challenge accepted

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    There isn't even much similarity between JavaScript and VBScript.

    That's just dumb.

    Much VBS code can be translated to JS code on a one-for-one basis.

    Is it curly braces that scare you?
    Last edited by VB6 Programming; Apr 23rd, 2018 at 04:52 AM.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Roman View Post
    Coding challenge

    Make VB7 using Android Studio....

    Challenge accepted
    Or just use B4A, B4J and B4i https://www.b4x.com/

  17. #57
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    That's just dumb.

    Much VBS code can be translated to JS code on a one-for-one basis.

    Is it curly braces that scare you?
    JavaScript is actually pretty similar to C# certainly in syntax.

    Yes it is totally possible that JS has changed a lot since the last I really looked into it but if it has evolved beyond scripting then it is not really JS any more is it.
    What a strange statement, so firstly yes the JavaScript language has evolved, in particular it's use of frameworks like JQuery which allows you to bind directly to data sets (and works particularly well with Json) allow you to make apps written with just JavaScript, HTML & CSS.

    Secondly the fact that the language has evolved doesn't make it any less JavaScript, it can just do more now.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    Try harder.
    Nope, still nothing. Your turn. Come up with some similarities.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    JavaScript is actually pretty similar to C# certainly in syntax.

    Indeed. And the syntax is even closer to C++

    But as a scripting language it is closer still to VBScript.
    Almost everything in VBScript has a direct equivalent in JavaScript (though not the reverse).
    VBScript and JavaScript are very similar.

    And JavaScript has evolved a lot from being just a scripting language. So we see less manual JS coding and more use of controls (frameworks). It has become more VB6-like

    And as Olaf has mentioned, JavaScript is very fast now, and can be used as an intermediate language (transpiling to JS from other languages).

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Comparing JavaScript to other languages is absurd, only a web secretary with meager programming background would see such similarities. The discussion is pointless. There are deep differences in language semantics that go far beyond the triviality of syntax.

    Those "frameworks" are not controls but gigantic bags of pre-written script that sometimes diddle with the DOM of an HTML page when they are hosted within one. There are many instances of JavaScript usage where there is no HTML page or DOM, for example an ASP page script or a Node.js script.

    See the book series: You-Dont-Know-JS:

    What is this series all about? Put simply, it's about taking seriously the task of learning all parts of JavaScript, not just some subset of the language that someone called "the good parts," and not just whatever minimal amount you need to get your job done at work.

    Serious developers in other languages expect to put in the effort to learn most or all of the language(s) they primarily write in, but JS developers seem to stand out from the crowd in the sense of typically not learning very much of the language. This is not a good thing, and it's not something we should continue to allow to be the norm.

    The You Don't Know JS (YDKJS) series stands in stark contrast to the typical approaches to learning JS, and is unlike almost any other JS books you will read. It challenges you to go beyond your comfort zone and to ask the deeper "why" questions for every single behavior you encounter. Are you up for that challenge?

    I'm going to use this final chapter to briefly summarize what to expect from the rest of the books in the series, and how to most effectively go about building a foundation of JS learning on top of YDKJS.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Comparing JavaScript to other languages is absurd
    Glad to see you regard JavaScript as incomparable.

    But it was you who compared JavaScript and VBScript...

    There isn't even much similarity between JavaScript and VBScript.
    So what is it about JavaScript that makes it absurd for us mere mortals to compare it to any other language? Until now I had been operating under the misapprehension that a coder should determine what language is best to use for each project, which inevitably requires comparison. But now you don't allow me to include JS in that comparison

    gigantic bags of pre-written script that sometimes diddle with the DOM
    Ah, you are getting a bit too technical for this web secretary now.

  22. #62
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Well, there ARE some similarities between JavaScript and VBScript. More than the similarities between JavaScript and VB6. For one thing they are both horrible. I was looking for one classic example of that, and found this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et8xNAc2ic8

    EDIT: Fixed the typo.
    Last edited by Shaggy Hiker; Apr 24th, 2018 at 10:13 AM.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Well, there ARE some similarities between JavaScript and VBScript. More than the similarities between JavaScript and VBScript.
    Go on, explain the difference between "JavaScript and VBScript" and "JavaScript and VBScript".

  24. #64
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Considering JavaScript: the Good Parts is currently 10 years old and predates ES6 or TypeScript, the two environments most JS professionals agree upon these days, it's a bit of a straw man to use it as an example of what's wrong with JS. It's like using QuickBasic to criticize VB6. They learned from it and started redesigning the language to get around it. Imagine that: a programming language can get better over time.

    (For real. I just bought new books about Electron, Angular, and HTML/CSS. Some of the things in Chapter 1 of the HTML/CSS book made me squeal, because they represented fixes for old pain points that turned me off to HTML a few years ago when I last tried.)

    There are certainly problems with adopting an HTML/JS/CSS platform for applications, but these things are true:
    1. It is the most promising and mature cross-platform solution available at the moment.
    2. It is well-understood by millions of people and benefits from decades of tutorials that are still relevant.
    3. It is being actively developed to address the largest pain points as they are discovered.
    4. All competitors are either to a specific company or platform.


    Until a worthy successor arrives, it's the most "safe" platform for current new projects. I'm sure that within a few years we'll settle on something else, but we're in a very strange transitional period of tech and I don't think we'll see One True Programming Environment while we aren't sure which combination of mouse, keyboard, touch, AR, VR, and voice control will be our preferred solution.

    This was never and may never be an industry of comfort zones in our lifetime. So speaking frankly, this is where we sit. The VB6 choice is a cushy limousine that's driving at high speed straight towards a cliff. We're not sure how long until it flies off the edge or even if it will, but it hasn't stopped yet and the edge is getting closer. You've got the option to climb out through the sunroof and jump onto one of many nearby cars willing to accept you as part of a rescue attempt. I think if you decide not to jump, it looks smarter to have said, "I think the car will stop of its own accord before it flies off the edge" than "the other cars are too ugly, I don't want to be seen in them."
    Last edited by Sitten Spynne; Apr 23rd, 2018 at 04:59 PM.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    The VB Amigos:



    "We don' have no Visual Basic, Seņors. Just JavaScript."

    "JavaScript? What's that like?"

    "JavaScript? Oh, it's like Visual Basic..."

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    Whoa! *cough* *cough* *gag* Whew!

    weakly: "Smooth!"
    Last edited by dilettante; Apr 23rd, 2018 at 09:10 PM.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    why are we discussing java at all?
    let go back to VB6 and the future plan for world domination.
    i predict that the next OS will be written in VB6 and will take over everything, java we will only read in wikipedia how it failed to be like visual basic.

  27. #67
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    People still get Java and JavaScript confused?

    It isn't 1998 anymore.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    If you come to my funeral, bring a screwdriver.
    You will be able to pry my copy of VB6 out of my cold dead hand.

    Rob

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    For me the most feasible rescue plan for my vb6 code seems to be a port to vb.net, maybe even c#
    Once in .net (no easy task*) then if windows goes away I'm hoping that
    implementations of the clr on other platforms will be available.

    BTW I've been very impressed with WINE.
    Last time I tried, my large-ish vb6 application installed and ran on ubuntu with no issues.

    *but surely easier than any other migration?

  30. #70
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    To add to the discussion,

    If you had a new product idea today that can be done in VB6 5X faster than moving to another language, would you do it in VB6 or move on?

    WP
    I would stay with VB6 then, cause I know it will work. Moving to another language that I'm unsure for me it's not a good idea.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    To add to the discussion,

    If you had a new product idea today that can be done in VB6 5X faster than moving to another language, would you do it in VB6 or move on?

    WP
    Quote Originally Posted by Robotic View Post
    I would stay with VB6 then, cause I know it will work. Moving to another language that I'm unsure for me it's not a good idea.

    It's a bit of an "if all you have is a hammer..." type situation though.
    If you become proficient in some other language you might find that making such a product could be done faster in that language, maybe more extensive libraries exist etc.

  32. #72
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    If you had a new product idea today that can be done in VB6 5X faster than moving to another language, would you do it in VB6 or move on?
    Kind of a loaded question. To paraphrase: If the only consideration is the one that favors VB6, would you use VB6? Erm... yes, yes I would.

    I quite liked Sitten's last metaphor. You're not wrong to continue to use VB6 but you're decision to do so should be considered and rational. If you judge that VB6 is going to support whatever project you're undertaking as well or better than another language for the lifetime of that project - with all the incumbent risks of obsolescence, then the decision to use it is entirely rational and sensible. If you don't consider those risks and choose it because "ARGH, the rest of the world scares me" or "<shrug> I already now it and can't be bothered to learn new stuff", then the decision is most emphatically not rational and you deserve whatever outcome you get.
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  33. #73
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Of course you also have the factor that you can often write and debug the entire program in VB6 before the newer VS.Net IDEs finish loading.

    But we already beat that horse to death a few posts ago.


    Aside from the issue of Windows-as-we-know-it perhaps going away in a few years, I think a slightly cleaned up VB6 released as a free product could be immensely popular. More so if bundled preinstalled into new Windows 10 releases.

    Just fix up the IDE's visual designers a little to deal with glitches, add simple manifest support, maybe add a LongLong type and unsigned integer types, perhaps some sort of "desired packing" attribute for UDTs. Throw in a little more GDI support for drawing operations. Provide some more type libraries for stuff already available in Windows. A new C2.exe to generate code optimized for recent CPUs, perhaps with 64-bit code generation. Nothing big or ambitious at all.

    But they seem to want Windows to die.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by C++Novice View Post
    BTW I've been very impressed with WINE.
    Last time I tried, my large-ish vb6 application installed and ran on ubuntu with no issues.
    You should try WHISKEY, next. There may be issues, but you won't care about them.
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  36. #76
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You should try WHISKEY, next. There may be issues, but you won't care about them.
    LOL, Whiskey works too well for me.

  37. #77
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Nothing big or ambitious at all.
    Yeah, right. Anything is bigger and more ambitious than MS have any interest in undertaking.

    Honestly, I do feel for those of you who've stuck with VB6 but if anyone's guilty of flogging dead horses it aint those of us willing to wait the extra seconds for our ide to open. Microsoft stopped loving you a long time ago and while it would be great if they suddenly rekindled the romance they're not going to. There's younger, better looking options out there.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

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  38. #78
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Oh, don't worry. I have come to expect nothing of Microsoft... and they seldom fail to deliver.

    Seriously though I'm perfectly happy with the level of support we do get, which is at least not zero. We can still compile and run programs so things could be far, far worse.

  39. #79
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Even Microsoft is moving away from Windows:
    * They put office on iOS and android
    * They put sql server on linux
    * They made .net open source
    * .net core can run on windows, mac, linux, etc

  40. #80
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    [...]
    Last edited by dz32; Apr 26th, 2019 at 11:22 AM.

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