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  1. #201
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    So given the success of modern frameworks with separation of concerns between UI and DB and Logic, it seems flutter is taking a step backwards by putting the UI back into the program flow... Didn't PHP teach us anything? It's worse than LINQ.
    Imagine what it would be like to set breakpoints in, or step through subclassing code;
    and then being able to hit stop/end/debug or continue, without crashing the IDE.

    VB6.tlb | Bulletproof Subclassing in the IDE (no thunks/assembly/DEP issues)

  2. #202
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by DEXWERX View Post
    So given the success of modern frameworks with separation of concerns between UI and DB and Logic, it seems flutter is taking a step backwards by putting the UI back into the program flow... Didn't PHP teach us anything? It's worse than LINQ.
    It is still the developers responsibility to avoid this. You can do mvc or whatever the cool kids are doing in flutter

  3. #203
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Well for what I need to do - VB6 is my Soup de Jour..
    Almost anyone here can blow me away with their expertise and I respect them for it
    But you see - that being said - with no formal training/classes or et all I am able to write programs that suit my needs...
    I will be a VB6 fan for life..and I really think that there are a few of us out there that have learned from the net and others and their own moxy to implement that programming app to what they want it to be

    My 2 cents

    Jeff

  4. #204
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Something that has been mentioned before, but may be worth repeating.

    If VB6 breaks beyond repair/hack and what broke it is caused by an underlying change in Windows, it would stand to reason that all other compilers would break as well. So if the Windows kernel changed so much that vb6 exe will not work, I would guess all others QT,Lazarus, Delphi, g++ etc would stop working as well.

    Thoughts?
    My thinking is that there won't be something that "breaks VB6". I would expect that it would be something that breaks a bunch of VB6 programs. For example, if the JET database engine went away, then my existing VB6 applications would all die that day....and be done with, as I can't change them.

    If something like that happened, a bunch of VB6 applications would cease, while a bunch would continue. The net result is that the installed base of VB6 would erode, while only alienating a small group, inconveniencing a slightly larger group, and scaring the rest. Do that enough times and there won't be anything left to break. Since this seems like an obvious strategy, and less antagonistic than "breaking VB6", I would expect that nibbling away, which may already be happening, to be much more likely than a big breaking action.
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  5. #205
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by fafalone View Post
    The 2nd part is to me so I guess the 1st is too... I've had to do some some work with C++ before so no I'm not fooling myself when I say C++ isn't that much worse than .NET when it comes to re-writing vb6 apps.


    And if you think my comments about Windows 10 are exaggerated, I'm afraid it's not me who's fooled myself. What claims did I make?
    Spys on you: Telemetry cannot be fully disabled, even on the Enterprise edition. MS still hasn't disclosed some of the info sent, and it's not possible to audit what they transmit. Even what they do acknowledge easily meets the bar for 'spys on you' on minimal settings: the "Basic" level collects all your hardware information and all installed programs. Yes it was backported to 7, but unlike with 10 it's easy to simply not install the update containing it.

    Serves you ads: First, all sorts of junk apps/games show up as tiles. This is paid placement. Advertisements to use Edge, Office, and Skype frequently pop up in many places. Lock screen ads are enabled by default. You seriously think this isn't a problem? You've got to be kidding me.

    Forces updates: If you jump through a bunch of hoops, you can disable it all together. But when you do need to update, you can no longer pick and choose which updates you want (with the exception of drivers, when the tool works).

    Reverses settings: Updates frequently reset changes you've made regarding system settings. Not once, this is routine. Again, this shouldn't even be in dispute, you'll find thousands of threads of people complaining about this.

    Takes away control: All of the above makes this case. You're less in control than previous versions.


    If anything, I've understated the case against Windows 10. To say that the above aren't even problems, wow, you've fallen hard for MS' excuses and marketing (Like oh my gosh those app suggestions are so totally helpful!). And talking to anyone about staying on the Titanic is a little funny coming from someone still using VB6 like the rest of us

    Fafa - a XO across the wire
    I have gone from Win XP Sp3 to Win 10
    so I am not programmed to see the in-between
    You are spot on - you hit the bulls-eye with the bullsh*t
    Thank you from a newbie -- sort of

    Jeff

  6. #206
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by habenero View Post
    But you see - that being said - with no formal training/classes or et all I am able to write programs that suit my needs...
    I will be a VB6 fan for life..and I really think that there are a few of us out there that have learned from the net and others and their own moxy to implement that programming app to what they want it to be

    My 2 cents

    Jeff
    Yeah, I've never had any classes in computers of any sort at any level from HS to grad school. There wasn't a web around, either, but it sure is nice now that it's here. There are several self-taught folks on here. Most likely, the vast majority learned more on their own than they did from classes, if they even took classes. Practice is more important than classes.
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  7. #207
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    I love your post! I really do - its spot on

  8. #208
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    You bet your shaggy whatever
    I love this site...
    It is the Lost Dutchmans Mine of Gold(VB6) wise

  9. #209
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by habenero View Post
    It is the Lost Dutchmans Mine of Gold(VB6) wise
    Now THAT's an awesome, and obscure, reference.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  10. #210
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, I've never had any classes in computers of any sort at any level from HS to grad school. There wasn't a web around, either, but it sure is nice now that it's here. There are several self-taught folks on here. Most likely, the vast majority learned more on their own than they did from classes, if they even took classes. Practice is more important than classes.
    You bet the farm on that one buddy!
    You are 1000% correct - but of course I'm in that club - it takes dedication - tenacity - but to take it to brass tacks - thats how we learn to ride a bicycle
    and to that - Wake up call to MS!

  11. #211
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Now THAT's an awesome, and obscure, reference.
    spent some time east of Phoenix and hiking in that park - and just wondering IF..

    the ship has past

    jeff

  12. #212
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by habenero View Post
    Well for what I need to do - VB6 is my Soup de Jour..
    Jeff
    If you are writing personal programs or have a tiny userbase, you may be able to use it for a long, long time. I use vb6 to pay the bills and it is stressful thinking about the ways it could break. Asking thousands of users to "run it in a vm" until we figure out a solution isn't going to work.

  13. #213
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    you are correct too - but as long as sites are active like this with the support from users
    in the words of The Who "LONG LIVE ROCK"..I see in the thread (forum) here that maybe support for the MS jet (MDB) would die and then that would be a stake in VB6's heart..

    I harken you to the thread portion of this site - I see 500+ on the VB6 side and lesser on the .net side for this site ...of course at all does end (I work still with a win 98 computer for stuff - sans internet) - unless you are Kilauea - and no I am not a dum-bunny that built a house there

    again you are correct...just my 2 cents.... you value and respect the knowledge and expertise that you glean from others who are willing to give you a leg up

    jeff

  14. #214
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    vb6 need to be acknowledged more. i tell the users that download my stuff (and its thousands of people) that im using VB6. and a lot are shocked, saying, is that possible with VB6?
    so the next project that i will share I will put a logo with "made with VB6" or something, and link to this forum.
    a lot people think that all the good stuff are done with c++ but its not true.

    one guy that is a sub-member in my team, i gave one of the "abandoned" project, so now he is using VB6.
    now that The trick is creating a Direct2D typelib, this will definitely be great for VB6.

  15. #215
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by habenero View Post
    I harken you to the thread portion of this site - I see 500+ on the VB6 side and lesser on the .net side for this site ...of course at all does end (I work still with a win 98 computer for stuff - sans internet) - unless you are Kilauea - and no I am not a dum-bunny that built a house there

    jeff
    I'm not sure what you are looking at. I see more threads in .NET than in VB6, but not by much, and it can change for any given day.

    Still, this may be the single, best, resource for VB6 out there, while there are lots of alternatives for .NET (not as good, or as friendly, but lots of them).
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  16. #216
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    well xtremevbtalk is not that bad, still active and theres tons of threads. i actually used that before i joined here.
    sometimes when i do a google search for something, i get results from there.
    other places like planet source code do have great sources and something specific stuff that can't be found here.
    and stackoverflow can sometimes give good small examples. theres more of course, that give specific help but much smaller sites with tricks and help for vb6.
    but i agree that this forum is the top place for size, layout and good community (even if we got some fights here and there)

    also, theres russian forums, but i don't understand much that offers tricks, solutions and new discoveries.

  17. #217
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    I see 262K for VB6 and 170K for net - or if you want to send me some new specs..
    in the forum page..
    this is in the active response/user count - meannig active threads and NO I heaven been floodin the VB6 (forum topic) with yak yak

  18. #218
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'm not sure what you are looking at. I see more threads in .NET than in VB6, but not by much, and it can change for any given day.

    Still, this may be the single, best, resource for VB6 out there, while there are lots of alternatives for .NET (not as good, or as friendly, but lots of them).
    this is the best -- on my count I see 262K for VB6 and 170 K for VB net - unless I am getting (bad news) - haha - and I dont do a comb over

  19. #219
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by habenero View Post
    I see 262K for VB6 and 170K for net - or if you want to send me some new specs..
    in the forum page..
    this is in the active response/user count - meannig active threads and NO I heaven been floodin the VB6 (forum topic) with yak yak
    Quote Originally Posted by habenero View Post
    this is the best -- on my count I see 262K for VB6 and 170 K for VB net - unless I am getting (bad news) - haha - and I dont do a comb over
    I
    'd be careful throwing those numbers around like that.
    It's actually a meaningless comparison that's been disproven time and time again. The VB6 forum (and VB6 for that matter) has been around far longer than VB.Net, so of course it's going to have more threads. That's just plain and simple. "Active" ... all that means is that it hasn't been closed and/or marked as Resolved (actually I'm not sure about that last one.... Active may simply be "not closed")... So to say VB6 is more popular than Vb.NET simply because it has a larger thread count really is misleading and does a disservice to everyone. By that same metric, I could claim that VB.NET if far superior to VB6 because there's less threads, meaning people are having more trouble with VB6 than they do with VB.NET. And I'm sure we could find another dozen different ways to spin the same set of numbers. That's part of the fun of statistics - 62% of them are made up.
    In short - don't use raw numbers from the forum as a measurement stick of anything... My guess is if you looked at the same (or as similar as you can get) at copdeguru.com you might see a different trend. I don't frequent SO enough to even try to guess what it looks like there.

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  20. #220
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    That's part of the fun of statistics - 62% of them are made up.
    No, no - you have that all wrong. 50% are made up - the other half are just BS

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  21. #221
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    That's what I'd say, too, but there is even more to it than what TG pointed out. If you look at the Post Race in the Chit-Chat forum, the three or four top posters all put up that massive count very early on. So, the Chit-Chat section was far more active at one point, and that point was largely when .NET was just starting out, or before .NET existed. Does that mean anything? Maybe not, but VB6 was THE forum during a period of very high activity. I have the feeling (not based on much of anything) that overall forum usage has slipped relative to the early years. If that's correct, then the VB6 forum should have FAR more threads because it was the ONLY forum at a time when forum usage was higher.

    So, simple statistics, even if not made up, will tend to give the wrong results in lots of cases.
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  22. #222
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by habenero View Post
    this is the best -- on my count I see 262K for VB6 and 170 K for VB net - unless I am getting (bad news) - haha - and I dont do a comb over
    I've found that you can mostly leave off the language when asking .net questions since the framework and behavior is mostly the same so I wouldn't likely be in a "vb" forum posting.

    I think looking at job postings and the "component" market is going to give the best indicators or a languages mind share. hint: not a lot a vb6 jobs and not many new vb6 components coming out lately

  23. #223
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    What does any of this have to do with the "end of VB6" i.e. when Windows as we know it is gone?

  24. #224
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    What does any of this have to do with the "end of VB6" i.e. when Windows as we know it is gone?
    Windows isn't going anywhere. I agree that there might be another "WindowsRT" variant soon. But this will be competing with people who get iPads and Chromebooks.

  25. #225
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    If you believe that it all becomes a moot point.

  26. #226
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    we are deciding if windows is staying or dying not microsoft.
    of course, if microsoft stops with the updates, the os will be left on its own.
    but like VB6, with a strong community that grow and work, even an abandoned OS can go on for a good while.
    if microsoft decides to stop updating windows 10, they need to give us something else, something better.
    they can not expect millions of users to install a OS that is intended for a smartphone?
    no, im sure there will be a strong community that will keep using the abandoned windows 10 for a loooong time . remember we still have people using windows xp and even 98.

    but this is futile, the doomspeople will not change they will believe with the death, like the new age people believed we would die 2012. when we got to december and nothing happened, what did they do? they just moved on to another date and predicts the end yet again, like they did hundreds of times before.

  27. #227
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    ...
    now that The trick is creating a Direct2D typelib, this will definitely be great for VB6.
    Olaf and The trick are the people who can change the future of VB6.

  28. #228
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    i agree dreammanor, they are in a league on their own, but i would not forget all other programmers that has contributed or are still active in the vb6 community, they deserve to be acknowledged as well.

  29. #229
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Azure Extends Intelligent Cloud and Intelligent Edge

    Windows is very clearly not the center of the Microsoft universe any more. Azure is the key component that is being promoted and extended at every opportunity.

  30. #230
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    From that same link I have to share this other link

    http://www.i-programmer.info/program...d-closure.html

    Anyone that loves JavaScript will really like this articles explanation of closure.

    *** Read the sticky in the DB forum about how to get your question answered quickly!! ***

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    MS MVP 2006, 2007, 2008

  31. #231
    Member LOfADay's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    n/a
    Have a great day.
    Last edited by LOfADay; May 10th, 2018 at 01:12 AM.
    www.vb64.com logo courtesy of BadAssTechnologies by permission & with thanks.

  32. #232
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    I
    'd be careful throwing those numbers around like that.
    It's actually a meaningless comparison that's been disproven time and time again. The VB6 forum (and VB6 for that matter) has been around far longer than VB.Net, so of course it's going to have more threads. That's just plain and simple. "Active" ... all that means is that it hasn't been closed and/or marked as Resolved (actually I'm not sure about that last one.... Active may simply be "not closed")... So to say VB6 is more popular than Vb.NET simply because it has a larger thread count really is misleading and does a disservice to everyone. By that same metric, I could claim that VB.NET if far superior to VB6 because there's less threads, meaning people are having more trouble with VB6 than they do with VB.NET. And I'm sure we could find another dozen different ways to spin the same set of numbers. That's part of the fun of statistics - 62% of them are made up.
    In short - don't use raw numbers from the forum as a measurement stick of anything... My guess is if you looked at the same (or as similar as you can get) at copdeguru.com you might see a different trend. I don't frequent SO enough to even try to guess what it looks like there.

    -tg
    you are correct too

  33. #233
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by LOfADay View Post
    I'll be using Alum at www.0AV.com (formally www.vb64.com which directs there). Investment is the key and investment is starting to come as we have identified several institutions still using VB6 who need, and are willing to pay for, the upgrade. These folk don't need much in the way of GUI, so that will be very "basic" to begin with. It won't be cheap though.
    Plugging your own environment??

  34. #234
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    too bad Alum needs Python to run. I really hates programs that needs java, python, .net packages.

  35. #235
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoutdv View Post
    Plugging your own environment??
    Nothing serious to see there so far...
    As it currently is, there's only very small enhancements/additions on top of the sources of a free (OpenSource) online-editor:
    http://codiad.com
    An online demo for that is here:
    http://demo.codiad.com

    So far nothing impressive was shown on the old page vb64.com - and the new "front" (0AV.com) continues in that tradition.

    Speaking for myself, to me the whole thing always came (and still comes) across as a "badly cobbled together business plan"
    (only pictures, videos and buzzwords).

    Unless there's something that clearly demonstrates:
    - VB-code inputwise
    - Working Binary (or working WebApp) outputwise
    I can't bring myself to take LOfADays efforts very seriously.

    @LOfADay
    Please don't take that personally - and correct me, in case there's something which does produce something "usable" (outputwise),
    similar to other online-editor-tools (like jsfiddle.net or compilejava.net or dotnetfiddle.net)

    Olaf

  36. #236
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Windows is very clearly not the center of the Microsoft universe any more. Azure is the key component that is being promoted and extended at every opportunity.
    You should read the article.

    The other two initiatives are Windows 10 apps for Firstline Workers
    Apps that run on ....... drumroll........ windows.

  37. #237
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    of course microsoft has different projects and the focus will change depending on plans and demands.
    windows 10 is out and its working, why should they put all resources on that? they only need a couple of dudes for the updates.
    im quite silly that people think windows is doomed just because microsoft is researching and working on something else.

  38. #238
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by DllHell View Post
    Apps that run on ....... drumroll........ windows.
    Windows 10 in S mode

    Affordable, cloud-powered devices for Firstline Workers.

    No, your VB6 programs are not going to be running on that.

  39. #239
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Plugging your own environment??
    Hope not. We've got rules against that.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

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  40. #240
    Member LOfADay's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    n/a
    Have a great day.
    Last edited by LOfADay; May 10th, 2018 at 01:12 AM.
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