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Thread: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

  1. #1

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    Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Hi,

    I saw the new safty feature the other day, well I'm sure that I would not drive with something like that right in front of may face.

    i would have uploaded a Pic, but not sure if there are royalties on the pic's

    It is like driving with your windscreen-wipers in the middle of the screen, now who would do that.

    regards
    Chris
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  2. #2
    PowerPoster Arnoutdv's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    According to Max Verstappen it's not as bad as he thought before.

    Quote Originally Posted by NU.nl
    Na drie testdagen in de nieuwe auto van Red Bull Racing trekt Max Verstappen voorzichtig de conclusie dat de zogenoemde halo toch minder storend is dan hij had verwacht, al kan de cockpitbescherming de Nederlander in esthetisch opzicht nog altijd niet bekoren.
    "Het zicht is eigenlijk zo slecht nog niet", moet de 20-jarige Verstappen dinsdag erkennen in gesprek met de verzamelde media bij de openingsdag van de tweede testweek in Barcelona.

    Verstappen heeft nooit onder stoelen of banken gestoken dat hij bepaald niet gecharmeerd is van de halo, de omstreden boog over de cockpit van Formule 1-wagens.

    Drie testdagen later kijkt Verstappen een stuk genuanceerder tegen de halo aan. "Je hebt natuurlijk zo'n ding voor je, maar je kijkt er eigenlijk doorheen. Het is niet zo verschrikkelijk als ik had verwacht, maar het is nog altijd heel erg lelijk."
    Quote Originally Posted by Google Translate
    After three test days in the new car of Red Bull Racing, Max Verstappen cautiously concludes that the so-called halo is less disturbing than he had expected, although cockpit protection still does not appeal to the Dutch in aesthetic sense.
    "The sight is actually not that bad", the 20-year-old Verstappen has to acknowledge Tuesday in conversation with the collected media at the opening day of the second test week in Barcelona.

    Verstappen has never denied the fact he's is not particularly charmed by the halo, the controversial curve over the cockpit of Formula 1 cars.

    Three test days later, Verstappen looks a bit more nuanced against the halo. "Of course you have such a thing for yourself, but you actually look through it, it's not as terrible as I expected, but it's still very ugly."
    https://www.nu.nl/formule-1/5164550/...-verwacht.html

  3. #3

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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Hi Arnout,

    I think it might be useful after the Race, if you are frustrated you have something to bite into, or the pigeons
    can have a little tea-break

    regards
    Chris
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

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    Super Moderator si_the_geek's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    It doesn't look great yet, but they are planning on finding ways to reduce the size so it is less noticeable, and of course over time we'll all get used to it.

    As is often the case with F1 safety devices, it is based on serious issues... multiple drivers (in the categories below F1) have died in the last few years in situations that would have been made far safer (or prevented entirely) by the Halo. In F1 itself there have been issues that would have been safer with it, such as when a piece of metal hit Massa's helmet in Hungary a few years ago, and was lucky to not die (instead "only" be in hospital for a while, and out of racing for longer).

    Once the F1 teams have worked out how to make Halo's cheaply, the lower categories will get them too, which will hopefully save the lives of many drivers in future.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    I assume that a windscreen is too heavy, or aerodynamically costly.
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    Super Moderator si_the_geek's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    They tried a wide variety of devices, and I think all of the windscreen variations had big problems, one being that most of them can't deal with the forces associated with a tyre or piece of metal hitting them at over 200mph (at least not without being to 'thick' to retain visibility).

    I don't think the aerodynamics got noticeably worse (some were better, including a fully fighter-plane style canopy), and even if there was a difference it wouldn't matter that much because all the teams would have the same loss. I think the Halo will have negative effects on the aero but should be fairly minor, and the teams will find ways to improve that, even if they can't modify the Halo itself.

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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    They'll just replace the driver by remote drone controls soon anyway.

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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Hi,

    it looks like it's made of Carbonfibre, looking a crashes in the past those Carbonparts
    -explode- into small sharp debris.

    well I'm sure they have tested what happens when it breakes around the head of a driver.

    regards
    Chris
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

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    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Well personally i think this halo device is a rubbish idea, they should be looking for ways to make racing more dangerous not less, that is the whole point of the sport is it not? go as fast as possible and maybe you might live at the end of it !

    If they want to make the cars safer then maybe they should introduce the ability to fire missiles at each other like Mario kart !!
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  10. #10
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    They'll just replace the driver by remote drone controls soon anyway.
    They almost certainly could already (they have thousands of sensors including very good gps etc, and all the controls are wired), but there has been a very definite refusal to consider it - because the human element is vital for fan interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
    it looks like it's made of Carbonfibre...
    It's titanium, and is far safer than not having it: "In 17 case studies of serious accidents carried out by the FIA, Halo would have resulted in a beneficial outcome in 15 while the other two would have proved neutral."
    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...2018-f1-season

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    Well personally i think this halo device is a rubbish idea, they should be looking for ways to make racing more dangerous not less, that is the whole point of the sport is it not? go as fast as possible and maybe you might live at the end of it !
    I think its dangerous enough, it's only about 3 years since an F1 driver died (Jules Bianchi crashed in 2014, died from it a while later), and there have been several near-misses in recent years.

    If they want to make the cars safer then maybe they should introduce the ability to fire missiles at each other like Mario kart !!
    A real-life Mario Kart would be funny, but that seems like a very different sport!

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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Well they could just replace the entire thing with catapults throwing people into solid walls I guess. Or maybe instead it'll just evolve into The Running Man.




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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Well, perhaps AI will advance so far that it may be just as good as having humans (human element) but hey what do I know?

    Want crazy and destructive driving? How about a demolition derby (also known as banger racing but perhaps not quite the same.)

    As for safety in F1, it's probably a good thing but shouldn't the drivers and fans who worry too much about the risks find something else? Bumber cars? Nah.

    My 2 cents.

    Last edited by Peter Swinkels; Mar 13th, 2018 at 09:40 AM. Reason: typo

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    I can't see them ever using drones. At that point, the racing is just oversized R/C cars. Who really cares about that? The idea behind racing is that the cars are all roughly the same, so the skill of the driver has some impact. In other words, it's a test of human skill. Once you take the human out of it...it becomes a hardware test, and not many people pay to watch one of those.

    On the other hand, as we get towards self driving cars, then there would be a real point in making up an autonomous vehicle 'race'. It wouldn't be about speed, though, it would be an obstacle course. You'd need simulated kids running out into the street, white-sided panel vans turning in front of cars, and so on.
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    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    I think its dangerous enough, it's only about 3 years since an F1 driver died (Jules Bianchi crashed in 2014, died from it a while later), and there have been several near-misses in recent years.
    What i said was half in jest, no-one wants to see anyone die but where is the line between allowing the drivers to drive on the edge using the best of there skill, and having safety features which mean that there are lesser penalties to driving badly.

    The idea behind racing is that the cars are all roughly the same, so the skill of the driver has some impact. In other words, it's a test of human skill. Once you take the human out of it...it becomes a hardware test, and not many people pay to watch one of those.
    Well you clearly haven't been watching any F1 in recent years, of course there is still driver skill involved but it is also very much about the teams ability to produce the best car for there Drivers. The top 3 teams have budgets that dwarf the other teams and so there cars are alot better to the point where if you not in one of those cars you cannot win the championship.

    To be fair this is not new in F1 there has always been teams with better cars but it feels worse in recent years as first 1 team Red Bull won i think 3 years in a row with clearly the best car, and then now for the last 3 or 4 years Mercedes have won with an even more dominant car.

    They do need to find a way to level the playing field somewhat, i find myself not bothering to watch the F1 Grand Prix nearly as much in recent years it feels to predictable
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    I would be surprised if the technology isn't already good enough that the 'AI' system driving would be better than humans, but the actual racing (overtaking etc) might not be there yet.

    Shaggy's point is spot on, I don't want to watch automatic cars, I want to see the human skill which gives such unpredictable and magic moments at times... even if those moments end up as crashes etc.

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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    What i said was half in jest, no-one wants to see anyone die but where is the line between allowing the drivers to drive on the edge using the best of there skill, and having safety features which mean that there are lesser penalties to driving badly.
    It's a tough call, but as a general rule the safety features are based on serious injuries (or deaths) in the various junior categories, where the competitors can't afford to end their main careers at 19 and support themselves through the long term effects.

    Getting F1 to do the R&D to make thousands of people safer is a good thing, even if in this case it isn't very pretty.

    They do need to find a way to level the playing field somewhat, i find myself not bothering to watch the F1 Grand Prix nearly as much in recent years it feels to predictable
    The gaps aren't that large (the worst car must be a maximum of 6% slower than the fastest), but the big teams do tend to have an advantage, and often keep it for a while as Mercedes did until last year.

    Rule stability helps even things out, but it's far too early to tell how it will be this year.

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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    I would like to throw this in also...

    what was the best Formula1 season for you

    mine has to be M. Schuhmacher versus Mika Häkkinen and the Sound of those 10 cylinders Motors.
    I really miss that sound !!!!

    regards
    Chris
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

  18. #18
    Super Moderator si_the_geek's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    That was a great period, I also loved Schu vs Raikkonnen... just a shame that Mercedes couldn't make reliable engines at the time.

  19. #19
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    The gaps aren't that large
    Rule stability helps even things out, but it's far too early to tell how it will be this year.
    We will see, If there are 3 teams competitive for the title then that would be a start
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  20. #20
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    Seems the halo would decrease safety a bit as visibility issues. I like the safety windshield better but how strong could it be? Made out of bullet proof glass?
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    Super Moderator si_the_geek's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    The drivers say the visibility issues of the halo are far better than they expected before driving it, and you can pretty much ignore it... hopefully that doesn't change when they try to overtake.

    None of the proposed solutions were perfect, but they picked the one that seemed best overall.

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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    The pictures make it look like having that front bar directly in front of you would be tremendously distracting as far as your vision is concerned, and if the goal was to prevent debris from colliding with the drivers head, then its somewhat of a fail since the openings around the bars are large enough to let good sized chunks of heavy metal through. I guess from a safety standpoint it is going to be a net plus, but I think they could have done even more, like put a windshield around the halo or something like that.

  23. #23
    Super Moderator si_the_geek's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    All kinds of assumptions were made by the experts involved in designing it (including that a full canopy was the best idea), but the testing they did showed that the Halo was the best of the options.

    It isn't perfect from a safety standpoint, but none of the alternatives were either. As always with F1, if it does turn out to be problematic they'll change it around pretty quickly (maybe even have an alternative in use within a month).

  24. #24
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    The new Gen2 Formula E Car has embraced the 'Halo' safety device as well and it looks integral to the design.





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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    You just don't get much for $950,000,000 now a days. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-ac...ehicle-of-2017

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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    ESPN taking over from NBCSN for broadcasts in the USA this year, so far I'm unimpressed. They were supposed to start pre-race coverage at 12:30AM Eastern time, but it didn't start until around 12:50AM. There was no audio for the first minute or so of the broadcast. Then, they have a reporter trying to snipe interviews with drivers when they are on the way to their cars and clearly don't want to talk. Then he interviews a guy while standing like 10 feet from one of the cars just starting up their engine, so you couldn't hear a word. Now, I'm pretty sure ESPN is basically just buying the rights to some European broadcast of the races and aren't supplying their own people for this, but still.

    To get on track with this thread, there was mention that some changes to the placement of the lights around the track needed to be made to accommodate visibility with the new halo, so there's that. I would set the over/under at the number of races before the Halo is either gone or significantly changed at 4.5.

  27. #27
    Super Moderator si_the_geek's Avatar
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    Re: Formula1 new safty -thingy-

    The only complaint I've heard about the Halo from people in the F1 community over the race weekend was that one of the on-board cameras couldn't see much (they were moved to different mounting points before the race).

    Given how much the drivers tend to complain about even minor issues, the fact that none of them mentioned the Halo at all in interviews after the race makes me think they don't mind it.

    There may be some more minor changes needed at some point, but I don't think there's a chance it will be going.

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