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Thread: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

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    About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Do you know which famous commercial software is developed using C#? I would like to discuss and evaluate whether these well-known commercial software can be developed with VB6.

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    PowerPoster Elroy's Avatar
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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Oh my goodness. Dreammanor, why would anyone do that? Also, is this really a VB6 discussion?

    When I think of Famous Commercial Software, some that immediately come to mind are SPSS, TurboTax, Vicon Nexus, Camtasia, any of the Adobe stuff, etc. I doubt any of those are written in VB6. In fact, I'm fairly certain they're not. Furthermore, all but one of the ones I listed are available for both Windows and Apple. Why in the world would they consider a VB6 rewrite?

    Take Care,
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    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    This seems like a question that isn't likely to get a good answer in this particular forum. General Dev, or C#, seems more likely. However, I'm not going to move it unless you ask me to, as I assume you put it here for a reason.
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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    Oh my goodness. Dreammanor, why would anyone do that? Also, is this really a VB6 discussion?

    When I think of Famous Commercial Software, some that immediately come to mind are SPSS, TurboTax, Vicon Nexus, Camtasia, any of the Adobe stuff, etc. I doubt any of those are written in VB6. In fact, I'm fairly certain they're not. Furthermore, all but one of the ones I listed are available for both Windows and Apple. Why in the world would they consider a VB6 rewrite?

    Take Care,
    Elroy
    Hi, Elroy, I don't really want to rewrite them with VB6, I just want to evaluate the workload, the difficulty and the possibilities.

    I'm not familiar with SSPS, but I'm familiar with Qlikview, Spotfire and Tableau. I think there is no problem in developing a software such as SSPS using VB6.

    I don't know about TurboTax, I know intuit company and its Quicken software. Quicken was not developed with C# a long time ago, perhaps the new version was developed in C#. I also think there is no problem in developing a software such as Quicken using VB6.

    I haven't used Camtasia, perhaps TheTrick can use VB6 to develop such a software.

    Adobe(Photoshop) should be developed in C++, and perhaps a small part of it is developed in C#.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:37 PM.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    This seems like a question that isn't likely to get a good answer in this particular forum. General Dev, or C#, seems more likely. However, I'm not going to move it unless you ask me to, as I assume you put it here for a reason.
    Hi Shaggy Hiker, I put it here to compare C# and VB6, please don't move it to other places, thank you.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Feb 13th, 2018 at 05:50 AM.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Well, you aren't likely to find as much information about C# by asking a group of VB6 coders. Still, you might find some.

    Aside from that, what is the point? VB6 is a thoroughly capable language. It's not like there is some sub-domain within the world of programming that VB6 is forbidden to go. It's just a language, and a desktop language at that (there ARE some forbidden areas for web-based things, but not desktop). You can write whatever algorithm you want in VB6, the only issue is figuring out which algorithm to write. So what do you expect to find?
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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    No one with anything interesting to say is entertaining the notion that C# does something in terms of Windows clients that VB6 couldn't do. VB6 is a Windows client language with access to COM, that gives it a very wide range of capabilities.

    People who think appropriately about languages ask what tools it has, and how it makes them more productive. They pick the language with the right set of tools for the problem they're facing.

    For a Windows Client, the "discussion" is picking a fight. You either care about long-term compatibility or you don't. You either care about sharing code with non-Windows platforms or you don't. Those decisions have a big impact on if VB6 is appropriate. Whether you think OO architecture, functional concepts, or random other language features affect your code shouldn't.
    This answer is wrong. You should be using TableAdapter and Dictionaries instead.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Chioces are a good thing. Questing for the "One True Ring" of programming languages is futile because no such thing exists.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Hi dreammanor,

    To "abstract" your question a bit more, I think you're just wanting to get an idea for what it takes to port "any" large-well-developed application from one language to another language. Of course, it depends on the two languages, but this is quite often a monumental task. Sure, you can often write a translator that will take care of, say, 90% of it. However, it's always that 10% that often requires 99% of the work. In rough terms, that was precisely the problem of moving from VB6 to VB.NET. And much of it was just absolute stupidity on Microsoft's part, like forcing all arrays to be be dimensioned starting at zero (and there are MANY other "gotchas" on that port). And, when a language has more than 1% or 2% difference from another language, you're then obligated to go through an extensive alpha and beta testing regimen. It's just too much work unless there's a compelling reason.

    And just as an FYI, up until the VB6-to-.NET transition, I'm comfortable saying that the 1% (or maybe 2%) rule holds. All prior "ports" from VB languages (even going back to PDS languages) were rather trivial, with huge blocks of code just porting with absolutely no reworking whatsoever.

    Moving from C# to VB6 is at least as much a chore as moving from VB6 to VB.NET. And we already see that that was a stumbling block for many developers, and that's why this forum exists at all. Notice that we don't have a specific VB5 forum, or VB-DOS forum.

    Now, regarding some of the developed applications I mentioned. Knowing The Trick, I have no doubt he could develop a VB6 version of Camtasia, if he set his mind to it. But why in the world would he do that? Techsmith and Adobe basically own that market, and The Trick would struggle to make any money in that market even if he did come up with a flawless piece of software. And, with VB6, he'd be limited to Windows, with many of those "artsy" people being on Apple computers.

    Regarding TurboTax, their expertise is both marketing and developing a huge reputation for being on-top of all the latest tax laws (a massive undertaking). And again, they're multi-platform (which wouldn't work with VB6). Someone would be crazy to spend their time attempting a VB6 version of that software.

    Regarding SPSS, you say, "I think there is no problem in developing a software such as SSPS using VB6". In a sense, you are correct. Just as an introduction, SPSS is "THE" preferred software for any/all scientific statistical analysis. A few years back, IBM bought them, and they're now pushing it to business as well for such things as performance improvement and quality control (which it's excellent at). Their only "real" competitor is SAS. Once upon a time (DOS days), SPSS and SAS used to be head-to-head. However, SPSS jumped all over Windows 3.1 and SAS didn't, which gave SPSS a huge leg up. SAS is still around, but they're more into the cloud based "big data" (think Google's or Facebook's database) analysis. SPSS rules the 100 to 9,000,000 subjects/items analysis (fit into PC memory) statistical analysis world.

    Now, SPSS is primarily for Windows but I do believe they now have Apple versions. You say it would be "no problem" to develop this using VB6. Well, first, you'd certainly need the source-code for the current version (which I seriously doubt IBM is going to release). Secondly, you'd need to be highly motivated to want to move it to VB6, which I'm certain IBM has no interest. There have been a couple of attempts to "clone" SPSS, the most notable is the PSPP initiative, and that is an open-source initiative which is quite interesting. However, most of that is written in C or C++. I seriously doubt those folks would have any interest in VB6.

    Again, in many cases, it just comes down to how many lines of code you have written in some language. For instance, I have 1000s and 1000s of lines of code in VB6. Therefore, I'm "stuck" where I am until a 99% compatible VB6 alternative comes about.

    Best Regards,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Well, you aren't likely to find as much information about C# by asking a group of VB6 coders. Still, you might find some.

    Aside from that, what is the point? VB6 is a thoroughly capable language. It's not like there is some sub-domain within the world of programming that VB6 is forbidden to go. It's just a language, and a desktop language at that (there ARE some forbidden areas for web-based things, but not desktop). You can write whatever algorithm you want in VB6, the only issue is figuring out which algorithm to write. So what do you expect to find?
    I used to think VB6 was a desktop language, but Olaf don't think so. I don't know if VB6 is capable of mobile-app development, but I'm sure VB6 can be used for web development. I've been thinking about this for more than 10 years, but until now I have time to try.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Chioces are a good thing. Questing for the "One True Ring" of programming languages is futile because no such thing exists.
    In fact, 1 year ago I had made the choice of developing Web-Apps and Mobile-Apps with VB6 (or Olaf's new compiler or IDE). If VB6 could not develop Mobile-Apps, I would try to finish it with Golang (though I haven't studied GoLang in depth yet). This is my choice.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Feb 13th, 2018 at 12:59 PM.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitten Spynne View Post
    No one with anything interesting to say is entertaining the notion that C# does something in terms of Windows clients that VB6 couldn't do. VB6 is a Windows client language with access to COM, that gives it a very wide range of capabilities.

    People who think appropriately about languages ask what tools it has, and how it makes them more productive. They pick the language with the right set of tools for the problem they're facing.

    For a Windows Client, the "discussion" is picking a fight. You either care about long-term compatibility or you don't. You either care about sharing code with non-Windows platforms or you don't. Those decisions have a big impact on if VB6 is appropriate. Whether you think OO architecture, functional concepts, or random other language features affect your code shouldn't.
    Thank you for your reply. Actually, I don't care too much about the things of the language level. I'm more inclined to solve practical problems that I and others face. I'm discussing the future of VB6, in fact, is to discuss my own future.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Feb 13th, 2018 at 12:59 PM.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    Hi dreammanor,

    To "abstract" your question a bit more, I think you're just wanting to get an idea for what it takes to port "any" large-well-developed application from one language to another language. Of course, it depends on the two languages, but this is quite often a monumental task. Sure, you can often write a translator that will take care of, say, 90% of it. However, it's always that 10% that often requires 99% of the work. In rough terms, that was precisely the problem of moving from VB6 to VB.NET. And much of it was just absolute stupidity on Microsoft's part, like forcing all arrays to be be dimensioned starting at zero (and there are MANY other "gotchas" on that port). And, when a language has more than 1% or 2% difference from another language, you're then obligated to go through an extensive alpha and beta testing regimen. It's just too much work unless there's a compelling reason.

    And just as an FYI, up until the VB6-to-.NET transition, I'm comfortable saying that the 1% (or maybe 2%) rule holds. All prior "ports" from VB languages (even going back to PDS languages) were rather trivial, with huge blocks of code just porting with absolutely no reworking whatsoever.

    Moving from C# to VB6 is at least as much a chore as moving from VB6 to VB.NET. And we already see that that was a stumbling block for many developers, and that's why this forum exists at all. Notice that we don't have a specific VB5 forum, or VB-DOS forum.

    Now, regarding some of the developed applications I mentioned. Knowing The Trick, I have no doubt he could develop a VB6 version of Camtasia, if he set his mind to it. But why in the world would he do that? Techsmith and Adobe basically own that market, and The Trick would struggle to make any money in that market even if he did come up with a flawless piece of software. And, with VB6, he'd be limited to Windows, with many of those "artsy" people being on Apple computers.

    Regarding TurboTax, their expertise is both marketing and developing a huge reputation for being on-top of all the latest tax laws (a massive undertaking). And again, they're multi-platform (which wouldn't work with VB6). Someone would be crazy to spend their time attempting a VB6 version of that software.

    Regarding SPSS, you say, "I think there is no problem in developing a software such as SSPS using VB6". In a sense, you are correct. Just as an introduction, SPSS is "THE" preferred software for any/all scientific statistical analysis. A few years back, IBM bought them, and they're now pushing it to business as well for such things as performance improvement and quality control (which it's excellent at). Their only "real" competitor is SAS. Once upon a time (DOS days), SPSS and SAS used to be head-to-head. However, SPSS jumped all over Windows 3.1 and SAS didn't, which gave SPSS a huge leg up. SAS is still around, but they're more into the cloud based "big data" (think Google's or Facebook's database) analysis. SPSS rules the 100 to 9,000,000 subjects/items analysis (fit into PC memory) statistical analysis world.

    Now, SPSS is primarily for Windows but I do believe they now have Apple versions. You say it would be "no problem" to develop this using VB6. Well, first, you'd certainly need the source-code for the current version (which I seriously doubt IBM is going to release). Secondly, you'd need to be highly motivated to want to move it to VB6, which I'm certain IBM has no interest. There have been a couple of attempts to "clone" SPSS, the most notable is the PSPP initiative, and that is an open-source initiative which is quite interesting. However, most of that is written in C or C++. I seriously doubt those folks would have any interest in VB6.

    Again, in many cases, it just comes down to how many lines of code you have written in some language. For instance, I have 1000s and 1000s of lines of code in VB6. Therefore, I'm "stuck" where I am until a 99% compatible VB6 alternative comes about.

    Best Regards,
    Elroy
    I no longer consider how to port a large VB6 program to other languages, because it's almost impossible, so I've given up this idea long ago. As I said earlier, VB6's future is my own future, so I'd like to know more clearly what VB6 can do and can't do. In this way, I know what I could do and what I could not do in the future.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Feb 13th, 2018 at 01:11 PM.

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    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Well... there's one thing I'm pretty sure VB6 can't do... make a good cup of coffee.

    Come to think of it, most languages fail at this.

    If you're looking for what VB6 can/can't do, you've gone about it the wrong way. Because that's not how you set this thread up. You asked, what famous software was written in C# and could it be written in VB6... and the answer is, yeah sure. Any language could produce any kind of program... some are better suited than others... More often than not, it's about what the developer can/can't/knows/doesn't know than the language.

    So, maybe VB6 can make a good cup of coffee, I just don't know how to do it. And that's OK. I don't plan to use VB6 for something like that. I'd probably use Perl.colator instead.

    -tg
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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Maybe the real question here is more like:

    What language is best when your programming skills are:

    plz give me teh codez

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Well... there's one thing I'm pretty sure VB6 can't do... make a good cup of coffee.

    Come to think of it, most languages fail at this.

    If you're looking for what VB6 can/can't do, you've gone about it the wrong way. Because that's not how you set this thread up. You asked, what famous software was written in C# and could it be written in VB6... and the answer is, yeah sure. Any language could produce any kind of program... some are better suited than others... More often than not, it's about what the developer can/can't/knows/doesn't know than the language.

    So, maybe VB6 can make a good cup of coffee, I just don't know how to do it. And that's OK. I don't plan to use VB6 for something like that. I'd probably use Perl.colator instead.

    -tg
    My goal is to do all the development work in a major languages. I know many languages, but I only want to study 1 or 2 in depth. My favorite language is VB6, followed by Golang.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Maybe the real question here is more like:
    What language is best when your programming skills are:

    plz give me teh codez

    The business logic occupies 80% of my work. So I don't have much time to learn a lot of programming skills and I can't be an expert like you and Olaf. VB6 is very suitable for me.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Feb 13th, 2018 at 02:36 PM.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    I no longer consider how to port a large VB6 program to other languages, because it's almost impossible, so I've given up this idea long ago. As I said earlier, VB6's future is my own future, so I'd like to know more clearly what VB6 can do and can't do. In this way, I know what I could do and what I could not do in the future.
    I feel TOTALLY the same way. But my future is pretty much laid out for me. If I'm ever asked to quit supporting my primary open-source project, I'll hang up my hat and play with my new puppies all day every day (Luna & Stella).

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    Take Care,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    My goal is to do all the development work in a major languages. I know many languages, but I only want to study 1 or 2 in depth. My favorite language is VB6, followed by Golang.
    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    The business logic occupies 80% of my work. So I don't have much time to learn a lot of programming skills and I can't be an expert like you and Olaf. VB6 is very suitable for me.
    So. I fail to see the problem. I also fail to see the reason behind this thread... If you want concentrate on VB6, do so... but keep in mind that there are other skills besides programming that you may find useful...

    -tg
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    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    The business logic occupies 80% of my work. So I don't have much time to learn a lot of programming skills and I can't be an expert like you and Olaf. VB6 is very suitable for me.
    So in fact you are scared that someday VB6 is not gonna work and you are lost in space at your job?

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    I feel TOTALLY the same way. But my future is pretty much laid out for me. If I'm ever asked to quit supporting my primary open-source project, I'll hang up my hat and play with my new puppies all day every day (Luna & Stella).

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    Take Care,
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    @Elroy: You are DOOMED! The dogs will be the ones doing the asking, and within months, or less. Been nice knowing ya'.

    @Dreammanor
    On the subject of SPSS: I thought that was the statistical software, I just wasn't sure. Too many darn acronyms around. At one point, back in the late 80s or early 90s, the manuals for SPSS took up an entire floor-to-ceiling bookshelf. Just reading them would be more than I'd care to undertake. However, it's just math, so you CAN do it with VB6, you just probably shouldn't. This is one of those odd things. Just as 'artsy' has been on Apple since time began, statistics is going to R. It's just math, so any language under the sun is capable of doing it, and the move to R may have more to do with fads than functionality, but it is what it is. If you find a statistician with an interest in writing code, they'll be talking about R, and quite likely talking about it as if was the only language that can do math.

    As for your future....how long is that? When I started, VB6 wasn't an option (and I'm FAR from the oldest one here), .NET wasn't a concept, Java was just a drink, and the web was a novelty (at least when I started getting paid for code) that a few people had. I've worked on a couple platforms that no longer exist. For example, I learned .NET to target PDAs, which were a thing until they weren't. I might not have bothered had I foreseen the rise of the smart phone that promptly wiped them from the market. I had somebody ask me to write a tablet app three years before the first tablet was invented. I only realized it was a tablet app he wanted once tablets were invented. We tried it with digitizer pads, at the time, cause that's all there was that could suit to some extent.

    The point is: If you are a long ways from retirement, don't get too hung up on what you want to learn. You won't be making that choice, the technology will. I can say that I can stay in .NET, because it will exist as long as I remain in the workforce, since that window isn't so long....except that I'm now writing in Javascript, and that came out of left field, too, so maybe...nobody knows. Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the ride.
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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    If you find a statistician with an interest in writing code, they'll be talking about R, and quite likely talking about it as if was the only language that can do math.
    *chuckles*

    You might be right, but there's at least one statistician/coder who likes to write statistical routines in VB6 ... muah.

    In fact, my primary application has some principal-components-analysis in it. It used to have some orthogonal and non-orthogonal (varimax, quartimax, & equimax) secondary rotations. I've also got all kinds of t-test, F-test, and multiple-regression routines in VB6. Oh yeah, my primary application also has a bit of multiple-regression in it in one spot (for controlling for gender and age for certain comparisons).

    Personally, I love VB6, but that's just because I'm so adept at it. I suppose that is what it comes down to, what we're adept at, and how much legacy code we drag around with us.

    Best Regards,
    Elroy

    p.s. I lugged around my SPSS manuals for years, and finally chunked them. As with most other stuff, it's all behind the F1 key these days.
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

  22. #22

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    I feel TOTALLY the same way. But my future is pretty much laid out for me. If I'm ever asked to quit supporting my primary open-source project, I'll hang up my hat and play with my new puppies all day every day (Luna & Stella).

    Name:  Luna (small).png
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    (Australian Sheep Dogs)

    Take Care,
    Elroy
    I also have a little teddy, she is five years old. Whenever I work, she always likes to sit on my lap.

  23. #23

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    So. I fail to see the problem. I also fail to see the reason behind this thread... If you want concentrate on VB6, do so... but keep in mind that there are other skills besides programming that you may find useful...

    -tg
    I don't need to focus on other skills, I just need to use VB6 to develop the product I want to do. I'm not a technical expert, but maybe a product expert.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krool View Post
    So in fact you are scared that someday VB6 is not gonna work and you are lost in space at your job?
    No, I have a lot of good ideas that need to be implemented with VB6, but I'm worried that Windows will gradually lose its space in our country, leaving me with no chance to implement my ideas. You might not be able to imagine the popularity of mobile-apps in our country, fewer and fewer people use Windows. I believe this trend will also appear in other countries.

  24. #24

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    @Dreammanor
    On the subject of SPSS: I thought that was the statistical software, I just wasn't sure. Too many darn acronyms around. At one point, back in the late 80s or early 90s, the manuals for SPSS took up an entire floor-to-ceiling bookshelf. Just reading them would be more than I'd care to undertake. However, it's just math, so you CAN do it with VB6, you just probably shouldn't. This is one of those odd things. Just as 'artsy' has been on Apple since time began, statistics is going to R. It's just math, so any language under the sun is capable of doing it, and the move to R may have more to do with fads than functionality, but it is what it is. If you find a statistician with an interest in writing code, they'll be talking about R, and quite likely talking about it as if was the only language that can do math.
    I mean VB6 can do many things if you are familiar with it and stick with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    As for your future....how long is that? When I started, VB6 wasn't an option (and I'm FAR from the oldest one here), .NET wasn't a concept, Java was just a drink, and the web was a novelty (at least when I started getting paid for code) that a few people had. I've worked on a couple platforms that no longer exist. For example, I learned .NET to target PDAs, which were a thing until they weren't. I might not have bothered had I foreseen the rise of the smart phone that promptly wiped them from the market. I had somebody ask me to write a tablet app three years before the first tablet was invented. I only realized it was a tablet app he wanted once tablets were invented. We tried it with digitizer pads, at the time, cause that's all there was that could suit to some extent.

    The point is: If you are a long ways from retirement, don't get too hung up on what you want to learn. You won't be making that choice, the technology will. I can say that I can stay in .NET, because it will exist as long as I remain in the workforce, since that window isn't so long....except that I'm now writing in Javascript, and that came out of left field, too, so maybe...nobody knows. Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the ride.
    I'm a workaholic and I can get a lot of fun from my work, maybe I'll keep on working until I leave the world, so I never considered what I would do after retirement.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Feb 13th, 2018 at 04:17 PM.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Yeah, I kind of feel that way with coding, but I was thinking about it the other day and realized that, if there isn't anybody benefiting from what I write, then I might just stop. I think some of the satisfaction comes from appreciation. If nobody is using what I write, then what would be the point? I could give stuff away, but that would be working...just not getting paid.

    So, I'm not sure any longer. I'll probably do a bunch of volunteer work. It would be a bit strange to find a place to my liking that needed a volunteer coder.

    I guess that's been kind of the point: Don't lock yourself in. For example, I have a few degrees, but none of them are in computer related things. Your future path is far from obvious, until you look at it in hindsight.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, I kind of feel that way with coding, but I was thinking about it the other day and realized that, if there isn't anybody benefiting from what I write, then I might just stop. I think some of the satisfaction comes from appreciation. If nobody is using what I write, then what would be the point? I could give stuff away, but that would be working...just not getting paid.

    So, I'm not sure any longer. I'll probably do a bunch of volunteer work. It would be a bit strange to find a place to my liking that needed a volunteer coder.

    I guess that's been kind of the point: Don't lock yourself in. For example, I have a few degrees, but none of them are in computer related things. Your future path is far from obvious, until you look at it in hindsight.
    Nice post, Shaggy. I get paid for most of my work, but I don't get paid for all of it, and I'm absolutely fine with that because people appreciate it and get use from it. When I was younger, I would often do various coding projects for my own enjoyment, but I've gotten to where I don't do that as much anymore.

    However, in the past, regarding some of those projects I'd do for my own enjoyment, it was always quite amazing how often they'd come in handy for some actual programming job that I needed to get done for others. Invariably, if we learn some programming skill, we'll wind up using/needing it somewhere down the road.

    Best Regards,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Well... there's one thing I'm pretty sure VB6 can't do... make a good cup of coffee.
    Actually, VB6 can. Check out XYplorer.




    I don't think there's any comparable Java program out there that can also keep coders awake.

  28. #28

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, I kind of feel that way with coding, but I was thinking about it the other day and realized that, if there isn't anybody benefiting from what I write, then I might just stop. I think some of the satisfaction comes from appreciation. If nobody is using what I write, then what would be the point? I could give stuff away, but that would be working...just not getting paid.

    So, I'm not sure any longer. I'll probably do a bunch of volunteer work. It would be a bit strange to find a place to my liking that needed a volunteer coder.

    I guess that's been kind of the point: Don't lock yourself in. For example, I have a few degrees, but none of them are in computer related things. Your future path is far from obvious, until you look at it in hindsight.
    I'm sure my work can help a lot of people, so I'm interested in continuing my work.

    When I walked a long way and then looked back, I finally understood that hesitation wasted a lot of my time and made me miss a lot of opportunities. Whether you choose VB6 or C# or Java, once you make a choice, do not hesitate, even in the face of difficulties. As long as you persist, things can always be solved.

    We need to solve not only small problems, but also big problems. For developers who insist on using VB6, the biggest problem is how to make VB6(actually ourselves) have a better future. People who can solve big problems are the final winners.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:46 PM.

  29. #29

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial View Post
    Actually, VB6 can. Check out XYplorer.




    I don't think there's any comparable Java program out there that can also keep coders awake.
    Wonderful.

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    I used to think VB6 was a desktop language, but Olaf don't think so.
    VB6 (as it currently is), works very well for developing desktop-Apps of course -
    (but only for the Windows-OSes, and only as long as these OSes come with a 32Bit-SubSystem, as MS provides it currently with the SysWow64-folder).

    When developing for "the WEB", you have to make a distinction between two parts (where languages come into play):
    1) the serverside code
    2) the clientside code
    That distinction is needed, because these Apps operate in "Ping-Pong-Cycles", which involve RoundTrips (RPCs) from clientside-code to serverside-code (and back).

    For 1) above, VB6 is entirely suitable (per ActiveX-Dlls you compile), when you keep in mind the requirements I've marked magenta in my first sentence above.
    (that means, that the Operating-System where your WebServer later runs on, has to be either a Windows-OS (running the MS-IIS or another WebServer-build that runs on Windows and can instantiate COM-Dlls -
    or you run your VB6-compiled Dlls on a Linux-Host on a rented "Host-Machine with Root-access", where you then install WINE, to have a similar SubSystem available as it is shipped with Win-OSes in SysWow64).

    So, which language you can use for 1), depends on your choice of Web-Hosts (what Operating-Systems they run).
    - platform-independent languages can run on any Operating-System (and basically behind any WebServer you imagine)
    - whilst with VB6 you are (currently) limited in your choice of WebHost-Operating-System
    Though these days you can rent "pre-configured" Web(Server)-environments which are based on Windows-OSes (including the MS-IIS) starting at ~$5 (or 5€) per month.

    As for 2) above, you will have to split this further into:
    - 2.1) Desktop-Apps, which consume WebServices over http or https (served by the code I've described in 1)).
    - 2.2) Apps which run in any one of the current Browsers

    As for 2.1) (meaning "native Apps", which run directly on the OS-platform in question):
    - these can be "normal VB6-Apps" of course (though with the same restrictions as before, the ones I've marked magenta) - just use a suitable http-Lib on the clientside which does these requests for you
    - the (current) VB6 will not work on other OSes though (as e.g. iOS or Android)... (is not able to compile "native Apps" for them, which then make those App-internal (clientside) http-request to WebServices

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    I don't know if VB6 is capable of mobile-app development, ...
    As just described in 2.1) above... no, VB6 in its current state is not capable to compile to native-binaries, which are understood by the current mobile OSes.

    But there is an easy way around that, because you can always look at the current Browser-Engines as a kind of "platform-independent runtime"...
    So we come to point 2.2) above (Apps which run in any Browser):
    - learning JavaScript becomes a necessity then (since it's the only "universal language" available in the Browser-Engines, if we leave out WebAssembly for the moment, which can be generated from a lot of other languages)

    But: (despite JavaScript or HTML5 or CSS3 which work underneath modern WebApps)
    - you are not required to learn JavaScript "in depth" to be able to write nice, modern WebApps
    Because there's (again) libraries which can hide nearly all of HTML5 or CSS3 from you, as well as most of the more complex JavaScript-acrobatics.

    Here is what I mean (and already mentioned a few times, with regards to OpenUI5 - a modern and complete JS-Framework, which allows "declarative development")
    It is actively and very well-maintained by SAP-devs and the OpenUI5-community, and has nice release-cycles, which include long-term-maintenance-releases:
    https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/versionoverview.html

    It resembles the VB6-Control-Concept the most - and contains "each and everything you might need" Widget-wise
    (Grids, Lists, Bars, Trees, Menus, Image-, DatePicker-, Calendar-, Gantt- and Chart-Controls).

    With "declarative development" I mean, that much (as in any modern JS-Framework) depends on:
    - DataBinding between a Model and a View ...(It's a bit like ADO-Rs-DataBinding to VB-Controls - only on steroids...)

    Please look at this ScreenShot (which shows a little "Fiddle-like" VB6-App, which I use to manage the Model- and View-Definitions):


    The right-hand-side "IE-Control-based" Preview-Panel shows the current Output, how it would be rendered on a SmartPhone (no matter if Android or iOS).
    The other to Panels on the left-hand-side are also IE-Control-based, and simply host a nice Editor (CodeMirror, loaded from a local resource on the FileSystem).

    The Top-Panel on the left-hand-side shows the "Model-Definition" (as editable JSON-text).
    The Bottom-Panel below shows the current "View-Definition" (as editable JavaScript-Source).

    Here is the code for the Model again (only 11 lines):
    Code:
    {
        "FirstName": "",
        "LastName": "",
        
        "ConditionsRead": false,
        "CustomersGod":   "Murphy",
        "ConditionsFinishLine": "foo and bar",
        
        "RegEx":   {"AtLeastOneChar": {"search":"^.+$"}},
        "Warnings":{"AtLeastOneChar": "This field may not remain empty"}
    }
    And here the code for the View-definition (a bit larger with 29 lines):
    Code:
    var Page1 = NewPage("Page- or App-Title", {labelMinWidth:200})
        
        .addContent(NewPanel("Please enter some personal data:", {expandable:true, expanded:true})
            .addContent(NewLabel("FirstName", {required:true}) ) 
            .addContent(NewTextInput("/FirstName", {weight:4, validate:M("/RegEx/AtLeastOneChar"), valueStateText:M("/Warnings/AtLeastOneChar")}) )
            
            .addContent(NewLabel("LastName", {required:true}) ) 
            .addContent(NewTextInput("/LastName",  {weight:4, validate:M("/RegEx/AtLeastOneChar"), valueStateText:M("/Warnings/AtLeastOneChar")}) )
        )
        
        .addContent(NewPanel("Conditions before you send:", {expandable:true, expanded:true})
            .addContent(NewHtml("Praise the name of {/CustomersGod} <b>3 times</b> and finish your prayer with {/ConditionsFinishLine}!") )
            
            .addContent(NewCheckBox("/ConditionsRead", {text:"I've read the conditions", linebreak:true}) )
            .addContent(NewButton("Send", {width:"100px", linebreak:true, icon:"drill-up", enabled:"{/ConditionsRead}"})
                .attachPress(SavePage) // the Button-Press-Event-Delegation (to the function at the bottom)
            )
        )
     
    App.addPage(Page1) // this finalizes the View-Definition-Section for this Page
    
    // a single Controller-Function (right in the View), bound to the send-buttons press-event above
    function SavePage(){ 
        if (ValidateControls(Page1)) {
            RPC("SavePage1", "/", '/Page1_SaveResult', function(Res){ toast(Res.Msg) }) 
        } else {
            toast("The page does still contain invalid Input")
        }
    }
    In the above View-Code, I've marked:
    - the "declarative-parts" which work with DataBinding-against-the-Model in magenta (solving a lot of interaction in the little Form directly, without using any Events)
    - the Controls.Add-like constructed new Widgets I've marked in blue
    - and the one and only roundtrip we trigger from an Event (after the View was loaded into the Browser) is marked in red

    The VB6-ServerCode which handles the RPC-call above (SavePage1) is this one:
    Code:
    Sub SavePage1() 'placed in a Class of an ActiveX-Dll... jsIn is the incoming JSON-model from the Browser-RPC
      jsOut.Prop("Msg") = "Thank you, " & jsIn("FirstName") & " " & jsIn("LastName") _
                          & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Your data is safe with us..."
      Response.BinaryWrite jsOut.SerializeToJSONUTF8 'and jsOut is the answer sent back (then popping up the toast in the Browser)
    End Sub
    You can play around with that Demo in either your Desktop-Browser or your SmartPhone-Browser by using this Link:
    https://vbrichclient.com/Apps/VBCommunity/Demo1/

    Note, how the App automaticallly "re-organizes itself" on the larger Areas of a Desktop-Browser (that's the "Responsive-Layout" they so often mention these days).

    I hope that cleared a few things up, what VB6 can - and cannot do with regards to modern, responsive WebApps, which run anywhere without installation.

    Keep in mind, that the only two parts which are not VB6-code in that solution, could easily be generated
    in a much more convenient "visual fashion" (in case one wants to "enhance my little VB6-based Fiddle-App").

    The Model is only plain JSON-text (which could come also from a Designer-App which fills an RC5-JSON-Collection) -
    and the JavaScript-based View-Definition is also not really complicated, when you take apart these "AddNew-lines" -
    any one of them can easily be constructed by simple VB6-StringBuilder-Code - and the linkage to the JSON-Model
    could be handled in a Property-Grid-Control for example, which offers the available "DataBinding-Paths", currently defined in the Model,
    e.g. over DropDowns or something.

    Olaf

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    , I mean,
    Carlos

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    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    VB6 (as it currently is), works very well for developing desktop-Apps of course -
    (but only for the Windows-OSes, and only as long as these OSes come with a 32Bit-SubSystem, as MS provides it currently with the SysWow64-folder).

    When developing for "the WEB", you have to make a distinction between two parts (where languages come into play):
    1) the serverside code
    2) the clientside code
    That distinction is needed, because these Apps operate in "Ping-Pong-Cycles", which involve RoundTrips (RPCs) from clientside-code to serverside-code (and back).

    For 1) above, VB6 is entirely suitable (per ActiveX-Dlls you compile), when you keep in mind the requirements I've marked magenta in my first sentence above.
    (that means, that the Operating-System where your WebServer later runs on, has to be either a Windows-OS (running the MS-IIS or another WebServer-build that runs on Windows and can instantiate COM-Dlls -
    or you run your VB6-compiled Dlls on a Linux-Host on a rented "Host-Machine with Root-access", where you then install WINE, to have a similar SubSystem available as it is shipped with Win-OSes in SysWow64).

    So, which language you can use for 1), depends on your choice of Web-Hosts (what Operating-Systems they run).
    - platform-independent languages can run on any Operating-System (and basically behind any WebServer you imagine)
    - whilst with VB6 you are (currently) limited in your choice of WebHost-Operating-System
    Though these days you can rent "pre-configured" Web(Server)-environments which are based on Windows-OSes (including the MS-IIS) starting at ~$5 (or 5€) per month.

    As for 2) above, you will have to split this further into:
    - 2.1) Desktop-Apps, which consume WebServices over http or https (served by the code I've described in 1)).
    - 2.2) Apps which run in any one of the current Browsers

    As for 2.1) (meaning "native Apps", which run directly on the OS-platform in question):
    - these can be "normal VB6-Apps" of course (though with the same restrictions as before, the ones I've marked magenta) - just use a suitable http-Lib on the clientside which does these requests for you
    - the (current) VB6 will not work on other OSes though (as e.g. iOS or Android)... (is not able to compile "native Apps" for them, which then make those App-internal (clientside) http-request to WebServices


    As just described in 2.1) above... no, VB6 in its current state is not capable to compile to native-binaries, which are understood by the current mobile OSes.

    But there is an easy way around that, because you can always look at the current Browser-Engines as a kind of "platform-independent runtime"...
    So we come to point 2.2) above (Apps which run in any Browser):
    - learning JavaScript becomes a necessity then (since it's the only "universal language" available in the Browser-Engines, if we leave out WebAssembly for the moment, which can be generated from a lot of other languages)

    But: (despite JavaScript or HTML5 or CSS3 which work underneath modern WebApps)
    - you are not required to learn JavaScript "in depth" to be able to write nice, modern WebApps
    Because there's (again) libraries which can hide nearly all of HTML5 or CSS3 from you, as well as most of the more complex JavaScript-acrobatics.

    Here is what I mean (and already mentioned a few times, with regards to OpenUI5 - a modern and complete JS-Framework, which allows "declarative development")
    It is actively and very well-maintained by SAP-devs and the OpenUI5-community, and has nice release-cycles, which include long-term-maintenance-releases:
    https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/versionoverview.html

    It resembles the VB6-Control-Concept the most - and contains "each and everything you might need" Widget-wise
    (Grids, Lists, Bars, Trees, Menus, Image-, DatePicker-, Calendar-, Gantt- and Chart-Controls).

    With "declarative development" I mean, that much (as in any modern JS-Framework) depends on:
    - DataBinding between a Model and a View ...(It's a bit like ADO-Rs-DataBinding to VB-Controls - only on steroids...)

    Please look at this ScreenShot (which shows a little "Fiddle-like" VB6-App, which I use to manage the Model- and View-Definitions):


    The right-hand-side "IE-Control-based" Preview-Panel shows the current Output, how it would be rendered on a SmartPhone (no matter if Android or iOS).
    The other to Panels on the left-hand-side are also IE-Control-based, and simply host a nice Editor (CodeMirror, loaded from a local resource on the FileSystem).

    The Top-Panel on the left-hand-side shows the "Model-Definition" (as editable JSON-text).
    The Bottom-Panel below shows the current "View-Definition" (as editable JavaScript-Source).

    Here is the code for the Model again (only 11 lines):
    Code:
    {
        "FirstName": "",
        "LastName": "",
        
        "ConditionsRead": false,
        "CustomersGod":   "Murphy",
        "ConditionsFinishLine": "foo and bar",
        
        "RegEx":   {"AtLeastOneChar": {"search":"^.+$"}},
        "Warnings":{"AtLeastOneChar": "This field may not remain empty"}
    }
    And here the code for the View-definition (a bit larger with 29 lines):
    Code:
    var Page1 = NewPage("Page- or App-Title", {labelMinWidth:200})
        
        .addContent(NewPanel("Please enter some personal data:", {expandable:true, expanded:true})
            .addContent(NewLabel("FirstName", {required:true}) ) 
            .addContent(NewTextInput("/FirstName", {weight:4, validate:M("/RegEx/AtLeastOneChar"), valueStateText:M("/Warnings/AtLeastOneChar")}) )
            
            .addContent(NewLabel("LastName", {required:true}) ) 
            .addContent(NewTextInput("/LastName",  {weight:4, validate:M("/RegEx/AtLeastOneChar"), valueStateText:M("/Warnings/AtLeastOneChar")}) )
        )
        
        .addContent(NewPanel("Conditions before you send:", {expandable:true, expanded:true})
            .addContent(NewHtml("Praise the name of {/CustomersGod} <b>3 times</b> and finish your prayer with {/ConditionsFinishLine}!") )
            
            .addContent(NewCheckBox("/ConditionsRead", {text:"I've read the conditions", linebreak:true}) )
            .addContent(NewButton("Send", {width:"100px", linebreak:true, icon:"drill-up", enabled:"{/ConditionsRead}"})
                .attachPress(SavePage) // the Button-Press-Event-Delegation (to the function at the bottom)
            )
        )
     
    App.addPage(Page1) // this finalizes the View-Definition-Section for this Page
    
    // a single Controller-Function (right in the View), bound to the send-buttons press-event above
    function SavePage(){ 
        if (ValidateControls(Page1)) {
            RPC("SavePage1", "/", '/Page1_SaveResult', function(Res){ toast(Res.Msg) }) 
        } else {
            toast("The page does still contain invalid Input")
        }
    }
    In the above View-Code, I've marked:
    - the "declarative-parts" which work with DataBinding-against-the-Model in magenta (solving a lot of interaction in the little Form directly, without using any Events)
    - the Controls.Add-like constructed new Widgets I've marked in blue
    - and the one and only roundtrip we trigger from an Event (after the View was loaded into the Browser) is marked in red

    The VB6-ServerCode which handles the RPC-call above (SavePage1) is this one:
    Code:
    Sub SavePage1() 'placed in a Class of an ActiveX-Dll... jsIn is the incoming JSON-model from the Browser-RPC
      jsOut.Prop("Msg") = "Thank you, " & jsIn("FirstName") & " " & jsIn("LastName") _
                          & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Your data is safe with us..."
      Response.BinaryWrite jsOut.SerializeToJSONUTF8 'and jsOut is the answer sent back (then popping up the toast in the Browser)
    End Sub
    You can play around with that Demo in either your Desktop-Browser or your SmartPhone-Browser by using this Link:
    https://vbrichclient.com/Apps/VBCommunity/Demo1/

    Note, how the App automaticallly "re-organizes itself" on the larger Areas of a Desktop-Browser (that's the "Responsive-Layout" they so often mention these days).

    I hope that cleared a few things up, what VB6 can - and cannot do with regards to modern, responsive WebApps, which run anywhere without installation.

    Keep in mind, that the only two parts which are not VB6-code in that solution, could easily be generated
    in a much more convenient "visual fashion" (in case one wants to "enhance my little VB6-based Fiddle-App").

    The Model is only plain JSON-text (which could come also from a Designer-App which fills an RC5-JSON-Collection) -
    and the JavaScript-based View-Definition is also not really complicated, when you take apart these "AddNew-lines" -
    any one of them can easily be constructed by simple VB6-StringBuilder-Code - and the linkage to the JSON-Model
    could be handled in a Property-Grid-Control for example, which offers the available "DataBinding-Paths", currently defined in the Model,
    e.g. over DropDowns or something.

    Olaf
    Very detailed and clear explanation, I'll carefully study every example you provide. Extremely grateful.

  33. #33
    Hyperactive Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    271

    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Olaf OMG

    Are you going to share the 'Fiddle app'

    Cant get my head around how OpenUI5 is related to your example, did you integrate that into a custom vb6 app as an web interface editor?

    please clarify when you can.

    Thank You!

  34. #34
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    3,691

    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Are you going to share the 'Fiddle app'
    Yes, I will post it into the codebank later.

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Cant get my head around how OpenUI5 is related to your example, did you integrate that into a custom vb6 app as an web interface editor?
    If you take a look at the Source-Code of the HTML-page which is served (in the link I've given) -
    (by right-clicking and -> "Show page-source") - then you'll see that:
    - it is *very* small
    - but more importantly, that this "index.html"-file is a *generic* one (always constant and the same, across a lot of different Apps)

    So this is something you should perhaps "take notice of", but then you can already forget this constant 'index.html'-file again.
    The only files which influence the behaviour of your App are the small *.model and *.view files I've already explained -
    in conjunction with your serverside VB6-code which handles the (potential) RPCs.

    The OpenUI5-framework is specified in that "starter-file" within this small <script> section:
    Code:
    <script id="sap-ui-bootstrap"
        src="https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/1.52.5/resources/sap-ui-core.js"
        data-sap-ui-preload="async"
        data-sap-ui-compatVersion="edge" 
        data-sap-ui-theme="sap_bluecrystal"
        data-sap-ui-libs="sap.m,sap.ui.layout,sap.ui.table,sap.ui.commons" 
    ></script>
    The part above, which I've marked in blue, is the (version-dependent - I'm using the latest "long-term-maintenance-version 1.52.5)
    Root-URL to a CDN-service (backed up by the Akamai-distribution-network IIRC) - and these CDN-servers are something like
    "fixed points in WebSpace with high availability", which also flag any resource-file a Browser or WebControl is downloading from them,
    as "longterm-cachable" (on the Client-machine or -SmartPhone-device).

    So, whilst the very first load of such an OpenUI5-page might take 2seconds or so, the subsequent next loads (next day, or next week)
    of these little index.html-starter-files (which in themselves refer to always the same CDN-Download-URL) - should then happen much faster
    (about 0.5 seconds or below - due to having most of the frameworks *.js-files already in the local Browser-Cache).

    After such an initial "Entry-Page" was loaded, the behaviour "within the App" (e.g. switching to secondary
    Pages from the intial Page) is very fast for the duration of the "session" in these so called "Single-Page-WebApps".

    HTH

    Olaf

  35. #35
    Lively Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    72

    Re: About the future of VB6: which famous commercial software is developed using C#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    But: (despite JavaScript or HTML5 or CSS3 which work underneath modern WebApps)
    - you are not required to learn JavaScript "in depth" to be able to write nice, modern WebApps
    Because there's (again) libraries which can hide nearly all of HTML5 or CSS3 from you, as well as most of the more complex JavaScript-acrobatics.

    Here is what I mean (and already mentioned a few times, with regards to OpenUI5 - a modern and complete JS-Framework, which allows "declarative development")
    It is actively and very well-maintained by SAP-devs and the OpenUI5-community, and has nice release-cycles, which include long-term-maintenance-releases:
    https://openui5.hana.ondemand.com/versionoverview.html
    Another approach for apps which run in any browser is to use NSBasic, a VB like language and IDE which transcompiles to JavaScript

    Here is a short tour of the NSBasic programming environment https://www.nsbasic.com/app/videos.php

    and a simple "Hello World" program http://wiki.nsbasic.com/A_Simple_Program

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