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Thread: Beginning of The End?

  1. #41

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    Re: Beginning of The End?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    There are still those who seem to think that Microsoft's mistake was dropping Windows Mobile 6...
    Yes, this was a huge mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    ... despite the fact that its market share was in freefall.
    No, it was not, except in relative terms as other platforms arose and grew. The WM6 user base was rock solid. Microsoft turned its back on them and never attracted the mass consumer entertainment phone market. As a result Microsoft lost everything.

  2. #42
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    Re: Beginning of The End?

    I have a saying for this, as the company I work for also has restaurant branches.
    All the CELL phones for orders where Windows Mobile 6. I haven't checked in recently, I can ask, but they where talking about replacing the mobiles with, of course not Windows Mobile but android.
    In head office we have a software that is relatively new but uses Windows Mobile 6 . This would supposedly be used in kitchen service (the orders mobiles mentioned above are for cafe service, not food) but the decision is that until the support company change to android, we are holding back(was happily to argue about switching to new MS mobiles, not that it was a big debate but if I was in favorite, we might have reconsidered), hope I've cost microsoft a couple of million $$$ ). Surprisingly, I was checking for WM6 phones as we where not sure, why on earth the company was using WM6 software as it is deprecated...Guess what. There are still WM6 models for current 2018 usage! But, I strongly disagreed to MS mobile technology
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  3. #43
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Beginning of The End?

    Dilettante has been pronouncing the death of Windows for as long as i have been coming to these forums, and pronouncing .Net as the worst thing MS ever did for almost as long.

    There is no doubt that MS has made some pretty dumb decisions over the years but they are far from alone on that but they have also done some really good stuff and in recent times the development tools are better than they have ever been as far as i am concerned. Post Steve Balmer MS seems to be making better decisions concerning software development imho

    Windows and .Net has been how i make my living for a long time now, and even now that i basically mainly do 80% Web / Mobile development i am still developing on Windows running VS and programming in C#, and as Windows and Windows Server are going nowhere as the standard business desktop and server i expect to probably be able to continue to do this for the rest of my working career.

    This idea that Windows will suddenly die or .Net will suddenly not be a viable development platform is laughable, it will be very slow and drawn out process with incremental change.

    People spend to much time worrying about this crap, yes technology moves fast at the cutting edge, but most of us dont work on the cutting edge most of us that do work in software development provide software for businesses, and businesses in general are very conservative and slow to change the technology they use.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Beginning of The End?

    This is correct NeedSomeAnswers , I think I have wrote that in the past, the second biggest ATM company in the world, that I had some business with for a very limited time but still I got a look from the inside, was using VB6 till, at least 2014-15 and was considering a C# switch (not VB ) . However I'm currently under the impression as I've done some small partnerships - representation in the past, and enough work in insurance field, that small companies tend to upgrade faster on software terms than big ones because the transitions on big companies need to "turn more wheels" to complete. I'm not saying that this is 100% accurate but one person with experience in multiple multinational and other companies can have an opinion here that can share.

    P.S. My old mobile is still WM6 , just use it for my personal mobile number and not the company one (that is android) but "the old faithful" is still in use, even if sometimes wakes up and dials numbers by itself
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

  5. #45
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    Re: Beginning of The End?

    I expect Windows and .NET are going to die at most as quickly as VB6. But I could be surprised. Blackberry/RiM followed this progression frightfully fast:

    "The only game in town" -> "Eh we can make those features if we need to" -> "Well, enterprise will never switch" -> "Well, it was good to know ya, fellas".

    It feels like Windows devs are somewhere in the "enterprise will never switch" phase of that denial chain. But the thing is, it isn't one-way. Windows isn't facing two very viable juggernauts to replace it like Blackberry was. Everything about an iPhone/Android was better for users than a Blackberry, so management didn't give a flip if it was easier for IT to use Blackberry. The concept of replacing Windows with any of its competitors right now is not so clear a reality. So I'm not expecting a fast decline unless MS, for some reason, decides they want a fast decline.

    .NET is more along the leftward side of "we can make those features if we need to". They've accomplished goals that defend against the largest threats it had over the past few years, and are working on pushing its advantages again. Considering an increasing percentage of it is open-source, I think it's safe to say .NET will be immortal like Java and C. That doesn't mean it'll always be exciting.
    This answer is wrong. You should be using TableAdapter and Dictionaries instead.

  6. #46
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    Re: Beginning of The End?

    The big difference being the cost of switching. For a big business to switch its mobile devices to some other mobiles devices its a pretty small cost in comparison to switching there entire windows infrastructure and all the systems they have that only run on Windows that they have been using forever, and all the training they would then need to do to train staff to use all the new stuff.

    small companies tend to upgrade faster on software terms than big ones because the transitions on big companies need to "turn more wheels" to complete
    There is definitely some truth in that although it probably depends on the type of small business.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Beginning of The End?

    Yeah, but we've got a weird pickle in the Windows world.

    "I can't switch to a new Windows" is a weird problem because of the shift to consumer focus. If we assume MS isn't stupid, then they're doing this because they see a really big revenue differential and that enterprise isn't expected to provide the kind of growth market they want.

    So the only way I see them keeping "classic desktop" around is a price hike. Some people are going to protest "I can't afford Windows now". I think Microsoft's response will be, 'The feeling is mutual'.

    2 problems:
    • Our society is not content for a company to be "big enough" and "adequate". A company has to be GROWING and IMPROVING and we are OK if that means, eventually, they hit their peak and destroy everything in the name of progress. This is the endgame of trusting The Invisible Hand.
    • Placing the security of your entire business in the hands of a company, knowing that, isn't a good move. For future projects, consider platforms and tools that are owned and maintained by task-minded communities, not profit-motivated shareholders.


    The above is why I mentioned looking at other languages in a VB6 thread and greatly offended some people. At any moment .NET might decide to betray me, so I have to be sort of ready to jump the rails onto another platform in a hurry. I think this is a very new developer attitude, if I had got my start in the late 80s or early 90s I would've enjoyed 15+ years of Microsoft stability. Instead, I only got about 4-5 years of stability followed by twice that in turmoil. I have no loyalty to MS, because they've never had my best interests at heart.
    This answer is wrong. You should be using TableAdapter and Dictionaries instead.

  8. #48
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    Re: Beginning of The End?

    I think the main problem here is getting comfy.
    I'm comfortable with MS products right now so I am considering of really focus on php and android apps for a long time but, errr, since my job involves MS products and I'm comfortable, I keep postponing it. Users are comfy with they vb6 or .net programs. Companies are comfy with supplying those programs and do not attempt to provide something new.
    Now the problem arises when a new product like android starts to get popular.Then people have to get out of their comfort zone.
    I think if microsoft makes a bad move and makes us consider other alternatives then than would break the comfy cloak. In sort I would be extremely happy if MS decides to drop .net framework and try to compete with some google or apple like technology. The switch to android php oracle, the lot would be just like that! ZAP!
    On the other hand if MS decides to create something innovative for a change and not get to a room and go "Ahh, what are we going to do today, we will drop the start menu, that's right folks, the start menu will be dropped, we do not know what a start menu is but we are going to drop it, yes our new innovation is to drop the start menu. Gimme fiiive gimme fiiive!", then I would be happy to use it. I can't say that I'm not anti microsoft right now but I believe I have and open mind ( ) to happily use some great ms new product. IF they decide to make one.
    MS have shown some "brave" moves on exploring new horizons or even pick on high developing trends (android). Brave...but stupid. In the name of new and innovative they had their users arguing and fighting and they eventually got the finger from most of them on their new products(for example call me W8 call me Windows Phone).I think there is a thin line of being brave and being stupid. I'm not sure which of those is microsoft (actually I am sure but that is my opinion).
    ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
    πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·

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