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Thread: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

  1. #481
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    Only the mods have that power
    We have capes too

    vmadala has already created a new thread so we're just leaving things as they are. And welcome to the forums
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

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  2. #482
    Member Episcopal's Avatar
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    It is common to have different views. But one thing I found out here. Everyone loves the VB6.

    I'm starting to feel at home ...

  3. #483
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    I've taken the risk of reopening this thread.

    o When a man is on a mission, just as Olaf is, isn't it best just to let him get on with it? Olaf spends a lot of time on forums defending his approach, probably too much. Let him get on with the development.

    o Would I base my future development on Olaf's developments? Well yes I would, if I understood them now or had the time to explore it all properly. However, for me and the majority of potential BASIC users, Olaf's work will have to get a lot more simple before it becomes accessible to the hobbyist/amateur/education development crowd. Some nice handy controls in the IDE is what it would take. I cannot speak for the more technically capable but for me it is all about accessibility. An IDE that matches that of VB6 and compiler, multiplatform? Sounds like a dream.

    o Open source or closed source? It seems that Olaf's code is almost open source, it just isn't ready for release. I get that. I also get the appeal of open source as it allows those with skills to become involved. However, this part of the world (the VB6 forum and the VB6 world) has as much politicking as Byzantium just before its final collapse - that's quite a good parallel actually. Olaf has a good argument about husbanding his code and not releasing it before it is ready, we all understand that approach and we all use it in our smaller projects, Olaf's project is so huge that it will take years, so the frustration from the community comes from knowing it is there but not being able to see it in our own hands, not trusting or perhaps not believing it will ever come.

    o From Olaf's point of view, the fear of the community splitting and forking the code and dissipation being the result is quite understandable given the community and the way it inter-relates. There are some clever people here, nice ones too but they have strong technical opinions (each of which stands some scrutiny) but they voice them in a way - text on a forum -that I believe in itself causes misunderstanding and ambiguity. Not their fault but I believe lot of this sort of chat should happen face to face over a beer and would sort itself out that way. Someone needs to create a new social platform, BeerChat or something.

    o Fears that Olaf could die or might lose interest? Perhaps Olaf could place his code in a locked vault or place a key for it in escrow with a third party so that in any eventuality it will be made open source by a particular date, 2024 or similar, just a thought. In my experience I have contributed to and worked on closed source projects that died because the developer simply lost interest and so I understand that it is a valid fear to base hopes for your own future on a talented developer that could take his code elsewhere. Olaf might sell the code to a company or could receive an offer from Microsoft never to release his code, in the form of an injunction that would be too costly to fight. It HAS happened.

    o There are alternatives, there is that RadBasic and the PrimeDivine approach that seems to have gone quiet for the moment. I know that many projects have tried and dropped by the wayside so I am not holding my breath. I still believe that the future for VB6 is rosier than we might think, by 2024 ReactOS WILL be stable enough to think about bundling an o/s with your application, we have discussed this before. The way that MS is driving Windows makes me doubt the future of Win32 apps is in Microsoft's hands in any case. I'm not even convinced Windows has a future for the average hobbyist developer and without the hobbyists, where are the future devs going to come from? I WILL bundle my apps with an o/s and I am sure it will not be Windows.

    o Olaf, I think you should spend less time defending your approach, you don't need to. A man on a mission, a man on a path he has chosen himself, so you should just get on with it. There is some honour to that approach and I respect it. I suppose you could parcel out tasks where you need help and see what comes but somehow I am doubtful that approach would work for you. You are probably realising that you work best alone. I've been reading the hundreds of posts on this forum where you are involved and it has made me realise you are clever, articulate but you don't seem to suffer fools gladly. A lot of what you write comes across as a little bit acerbic in nature but that may be just the medium over-emphasising the argumentative or defensive side of your character. It happens to me too. Basically, if you use too many words people seem to get pissed off - so I find it is good to throw in a more than a few happy smilies and to be excessively polite and friendly (when I remember to), being English helps, perhaps being German does not.

    For the others, I would say, don't criticise or load Olaf with new requirements, let him get on with it. In the ReactOS forum, the other place I hang around, people turn up daily saying ReactOS should do this or that or that development is too slow. The response is always to say, stop complaining, contribute, develop, test, bugfix, write or create, do what you can but don't complain, if you complain then you don't understand the scale of the task and you probably shouldn't be here.

    It has always surprised me that with all the passion and ability here that we don't have code bank of components that come some way to building this environment we know and love. Perhaps Olaf, you could draw some pictures and do some demos to show us what you have or don't have, it might relieve some tension.

    PS I read recently, it might have been here, someone clever said it - that the single biggest problem in communication, is the illusion that it has taken place. We should bear that in mind with every written discussion. The communication we think we are giving is not necessarily that which is received.
    Last edited by yereverluvinuncleber; Nov 8th, 2019 at 07:31 AM.

  4. #484
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    However, this part of the world (the VB6 forum and the VB6 world) has as much politicking as Byzantium just before its final collapse - that's quite a good parallel actually.
    I don't know about that. Nobody has lost any eyeballs, yet.

    - so I find it is good to throw in a more than a few happy smilies and to be excessively polite and friendly (when I remember to), being English helps, perhaps being German does not.
    Oh, right...play the stereotype card. That ALWAYS works out well.

    PS I read recently, it might have been here, someone clever said it - that the single biggest problem in communication, is the illusion that it has taken place. We should bear that in mind with every written discussion. The communication we think we are giving is not necessarily that which is received.
    Amen to that.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  5. #485
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Would I base my future development on Olaf's developments? Well yes I would, if I understood them now or had the time to explore it all properly.
    This is fun game

    Would I base my future development on Python? Well yes I would, if I understood them now or had the time to explore it all properly.

    Would I base my future development on .net? Well yes I would, if I understood them now or had the time to explore it all properly.

    Would I base my future development on Kotlin? Well yes I would, if I understood them now or had the time to explore it all properly.

    etc etc etc

    Lots of people would do lots of things if it weren't tied to that pesky act of actually doing it.

  6. #486
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by DllHell View Post
    Lots of people would do lots of things if it weren't tied to that pesky act of actually doing it.
    Actually, my point was more about trust. I'd be prepared to trust Olaf and what he creates. Maybe I should have been a little more clear. Given time and a little more knowledge, I would be prepared to go down the path that Olaf creates.

    PS. ...and yes I am already going down the VB.FRED path as a safety .NET, my scripting path having been already well travelled and in any case I would definitely not choose Python.

  7. #487
    Frenzied Member wqweto's Avatar
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    https://github.com/wine-mirror/wine/.../dlls/vbscript

    I just found out there is a fairly complete vbscript interpreter in Wine, including bison based parser, runtime, regexp (!), IDispatch classes, etc.

    cheers,
    </wqw>

  8. #488
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by wqweto View Post
    https://github.com/wine-mirror/wine/.../dlls/vbscript

    I just found out there is a fairly complete vbscript interpreter in Wine, including bison based parser, runtime, regexp (!), IDispatch classes, etc.

    cheers,
    </wqw>
    It would be nice if a vbscript interpreter could be developed with pure VB6.

  9. #489
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    Re: Vb6 , the Future, and what I have discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by wqweto View Post

    I just found out there is a fairly complete vbscript interpreter in Wine, including bison based parser, runtime, regexp (!), IDispatch classes, etc.
    That's quite a useful find. I use vbscript for a few utilities as it has some functionality that only exists with vbscript and Microsoft's jscript. Do you know whether the Wine version has its own enumerate function? Useful for interpreting WMI data collections.

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