Did I unintentionally threaten my neighbor?

[MMock]

I don't know who else to ask this, so I hope it's not inappropriate for this forum.

I have a license to carry a concealed weapon, and I do so regularly when I walk my dog, especially after sundown or before sunrise. There are a lot of wooded areas around. (I believe my other dog "disappeared" one night because of coyotes). Today when I got home from work, I asked my daughter if she wanted to walk with me so out we went. My dog can be aggressive but she's on a leash but she'll bark at other dogs. Not usually at people. I walked by a house the next street over. Two dogs came running out of their yard into the street barking at us. My dog was barking back on her leash. I was yelling for the people in the house to come get their dogs. I may have said call off your GD dogs. I saw a guy in his living room who seemed to just be walking around the room, not coming out. I assumed he was looking for shoes and didn't want to go out in the rain and mud in his socks. Because no one wants muddy feet, right? So seconds were ticking by and finally I yelled I have a gun. Was it a threat? I think it was more like, hey I'm scared and if you don't come out soon I might have to defend myself against your two dogs that should be contained in your yard so I can safely go for a walk with my dog and my daughter! So he starts dropping the F bomb yelling at me for threatening his dogs. Seriously? We were able to walk away (so did I overreact?) and went to the end of the road and turned around, going past his house again on our way back home. He yelled something about why don't I walk on my own street? Again, is this guy serious? I truly believe if it was the other way around I would've dashed out in an instant and apologized profusely and asked if the people/dogs were okay. Doesn't anyone take responsibility anymore? How is this my fault? It is not the first time these dogs have run out at us. I'd like to call the police, but I'm afraid maybe I did threaten him and I should just be glad he didn't call the cops on me.

I live in the USA, and in my town it is illegal for you to not restrain/contain your dogs. But maybe what I did is worse?

[wes4dbt]

I don't really make judgments when only hearing one side of the story. I would suggest when you walk in that are to have your camera/phone ready and film the situation if possible. That should give the police a clear picture. If that's what your goal is.

[jmcilhinney]

Firstly, I don't think that the questions is whether you threatened your neighbour, even in his mind. You say that he accused you of threatening his dogs, not him.

Secondly, I would say that you absolutely did threaten his dogs and it was no accident. What other possible interpretation is there of your statement? You meant that you were going to shoot his dogs if you felt that you, your daughter or your dog were in genuine danger. You may not have rationalised it as such but why else would you tell your neighbour about the gun if you didn't want him to know that there was a chance of shots being fired from it?

Finally, I would suggest that your threat was completely justified. On the face of it, I don't think that you were making the threat to intimidate but rather to inform and provide the opportunity for your neighbour to avoid a situation that no-one wanted. If you had approached his yard and started waving the gun at the dogs then that would clearly be a completely different situation. That street is a public area and the fact that you don't live on it is of no relevance. You have a legal right to be there and his dogs do not.

It's impossible to say how far someone would go based on so little information but, to be honest, if he did behave as you describe then he's at least part of a POS and might be the type to go to the cops and tell lies about you. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has encountered the type who, when he feels that his "rightful" dominance has been challenged, will do whatever it takes to prove that he's the alpha. I'd suggest that, even if you don't want something done about it, you go to the cops and get your account of the incident on record. If he does then make a complaint and makes up stories about how he was just minding his own business and you started brandishing your weapon and threatening his family, you'll have a much less difficult task to make your version sound like the truth.

[MMock]

Bringing my phone/camera might be a good idea...

jmc brought up some points in my defense that I was also thinking...I didn't want to shoot any dogs I just wanted him to sense some urgency to the situation as he seemed to be taking his own sweet time and to hurry up and get out to help. His neighborhood has houses on maybe 1/2 to 3/4 acres each and I don't even think I would've fired the gun at the dogs - it was dark and someone could've been getting their mail or getting out of their car in their driveway. So if it got to that point I maybe would've fired up the air but even that to me is scary and not something I'd want to do except if there was an actual fight going on to scare them. I don't even know if that's legal; I've had cause to consider it at other times. I would've done what I did and try to walk away and see how far they followed us.

I'm sure the guy thinks his dogs are "friendly". My dog has never bitten a person but when kids come up to her and say does your dog bite I say of course she does, she's a dog. And if you mix a friendly dog with my dog who's a hunter and a protector you never know what you're going to get. A friend of mine's husband was out walking their dog, and he got attacked by a dog that was trying to attack his dog when he was trying to protect his dog. My friend said her husband walked in the door and looked totally pale. I don't think their dog would even go out for a walk after that. Dogs are animals with instinct and are unpredictable in some situations.

Oh, what is POS?

Ironically, my town's PD is a customer of the company where I work, and a lot of former police officers work there. I wish it wasn't Saturday. I just skyped my boss and she said "Any of the guys that used to work at the PD could give you advice. Nothing actually happened so I don't know if it's a problem" because I said I couldn't really picture HIM being the one to call the police on ME.

We will walk in the other direction today. And unarmed as I expect to going out in daylight

[jmcilhinney]

Oh, what is POS?

Piece of $h!t.

[MMock]

LOL - I had looked up acronymns and thought that might be it...

[Steve R Jones]

How BIG are the dogs on both side of the conversation?

[MMock]

It was dark and hard to tell. My daughter remembers the larger one as big and black. My dog is about 30 lbs so a little bigger than her. The other was probably smaller. And not to be sexist, but he's a man and my daughter (obviously) and I are women. I felt threatened by him and the fact that he waited for us to make the return trip by his house again to tell us not to walk on his street anymore (or to stay on my own, whatever his exact words were).

Anyway, I did email a former cop I'm acquainted with, he said
My first thought is to report it, but it may become an issue if they talk to the guy and he pushes the issue and says he felt threatened.
I would just try to avoid his house and move on. Sometimes calling the police opens doors you may not to deal with.
You did nothing wrong, it's just a different world today.

[Shaggy Hiker]

When it comes to dogs, it's always a matter of perspective. Generally, dogs being pack animals, treat those they see as part of the pack quite a bit differently than those they don't think are part of the pack. So, people see their dogs differently from how others see them. Furthermore, we tend to be protective of our pets. So, you and that guy were roughly in the same position in that you were both interested in protecting the welfare of those you cared about, just in different ways. He may not have been defensive until you mentioned the gun, but then he was. At that point, it was pretty much us vs them in both of your eyes. Whether it was right or wrong is almost beside the point. I doubt he thought you were threatening HIM, just his dogs, but how would you react if somebody threatened to shoot your dog? Perhaps better, perhaps not.

Ultimately, the point isn't what happened THEN, but what happens next. Did he realize that there could be a bad consequence of letting his dogs run free? That would be great. Of course, he could take a totally different lesson from that, too. As for you, it's clearly something you are thinking about, so what will you do differently in the future? Shooting first probably wouldn't be the right lesson. Avoiding that road would be easier, though not necessarily ideal. And so on...Ultimately, nothing really happened, but behavior will change in some way as a result.

I walked a large Doberman, who was really nice with people, and was generally fine with other dogs, but would have real problems with some other male dogs, especially an even larger, young, Rottweiler who was always chained. I avoided that house most of the time because the two dogs really didn't get along, so there was always a risk. However, the other dog was never left out at night....until just one night. The Doby was getting old, and having hip issues. He normally minded so well that I wouldn't use a leash for pre-dawn walks, as I was taking him to swim anyways, and nobody was out and about.

That one morning, though, the Rottweiler was left out through the night, and the Doberman attacked it. I couldn't see either one, as there wasn't any light in the sky, but the Rotty knocked over the elderly Doby...and sat on him. So, there I was in the dark, with a large Rottweiler sitting on my Doberman (not mine, actually, but that's a really weird story). Even though one dog was sitting on the other, neither was acting aggressive, as if they were as puzzled as I was. I knew that if I moved the Rotty, they'd snap at each other again, so I got a good hold on both collars and vigorously pulled the two apart. They did, indeed try to get after each other, but the Doby recognized he was unfit for the fight, and was willing to be pushed away, and the Rotty was clearly not aggressive towards me, so it all worked out. I didn't go past that house again, though. Just couldn't trust that the dog wouldn't be out.

[MMock]

I figuerd there was a story behind "I walked a large Doberman"!

How would I handle it differently next time? I usually go out with this little bag and in it are waste bags, tissues, some pocket change, etc., and most importantly mace. But I'm not always organized enough or caring enough to grab it. So Friday we went out with one waste bag, a flashlight and the gun (doesn't fit in the little bag. Had is strapped around my waist in a "fanny pack"). Next time plan A will be "I have mace!" I am much less likely to cause such a reaction or end up on the evening news or in a jail cell.

I know it's open for interpretation, but "I have a gun" didn't mean I am going to shoot your dogs but rather "i am capable of defending myself if you don't call your dogs off me".

Sadly, his neighborhood is a nice short walk when it's cold and dark and I feel like I owe it to my dog to get her out of the house for 20 minutes. There aren't a lot of options for short walks.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I doubt there is any really good solution. If the dogs were loose the one time, then maybe nothing much comes of it. If he leaves them loose regularly, then it's likely a police matter, cause anything you try to do on your own may be counterproductive....with the possible exception of pepper spray.

I had a dog that would run off with a nerf football at any opportunity. The ball couldn't take that, so I put a bunch of black pepper on the ball and gave the dog an opportunity to "steal" it, as the dog was wont to do. The dog grabbed the ball, got three or four steps, dropped the ball with a look of amazement and disgust....and never touched that ball, or any other nerf balls, again. Dogs sometimes learn more readily than do people.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

When it comes to dogs, it's always a matter of perspective. Generally, dogs being pack animals, treat those they see as part of the pack quite a bit differently than those they don't think are part of the pack. So, people see their dogs differently from how others see them. Furthermore, we tend to be protective of our pets. So, you and that guy were roughly in the same position in that you were both interested in protecting the welfare of those you cared about, just in different ways. He may not have been defensive until you mentioned the gun, but then he was. At that point, it was pretty much us vs them in both of your eyes. Whether it was right or wrong is almost beside the point. I doubt he thought you were threatening HIM, just his dogs, but how would you react if somebody threatened to shoot your dog? Perhaps better, perhaps not.

I generally agree with Shaggy here.

Telling your neighbour you have a gun in this situation seems a bit harsh, but maybe thats a cultural difference with me being from the UK.

Obviously you felt threatened, and also annoyed that this guy wasn't behaving with his dogs as you would or as you would expect a responsible dog owner to behave.

If it was me i would just drop the situation. nobody got hurt and its unlikely the guy will do anything. If you do its likely you will just end up turning a minor issue into a bigger one.

If you get the chance to speak to this guy without the dogs or maybe if you know someone who knows him, maybe you could explain why you said what you did and try to clear up any misunderstandings, or maybe you just walk on the other side of the road past his house

[MMock]

Telling your neighbour you have a gun in this situation seems a bit harsh but maybe thats a cultural difference

No! It was just plain stupid. But it escalated, because: 1) I yelled Help when I saw him inside his house. He was right there and could have helped. He did not come out. 2) "Get your GD dogs!" Still inside his house, looking for shoes I guessed. 3) I yelled something I thought he'd react to.

I am going to let it be and walk by his house warily the next time I feel it's the route I really want to go. I have a feeling these dogs won't run out at me again but the cost was kind of high.

[topshot]

I personally would have worded it differently. Maybe something like, "I feel threatened but I really don't want to have to shoot one of your dogs." What you say in a personal defense situation is VERY important in terms of the law (at least in my state). I would also video the whole thing if possible so you have proof.

However, that said, I'm assuming you weren't oblivious to the fact that potentially aggressive dogs were on the route. You should always carry your mace anyway so you have a less-lethal option available to you. There may be some situations where you won't be able to justify use of lethal force but still need some kind of force multiplier. I'd recommend you check out the Active Self Protection (and the ASP Extra) youtube page.

[sapator]

Guns and Dogses.

While i do not like the idea of guns, it's illegal to carry a gun in Greece anyhow, i dislike the idea of aggressive loose dogs even more.
So I would love to get an Magnum or an automatic(why not both) and pass through your neighbor house, wearing an all red Cinderella dress, with glued ringing bells and with a pack of dogs.
I will be jumping around screaming, Ice cream Ice creeeamm. Hope that get's their dogs attention and attack

But seriously, you get much too considering for the law and Police and stuff out there for things that we wouldn't even bother here.
It's very peculiar to me, reading a post that some dogs barked and we are considering pressing charges.
I wouldn't even bother. When I walk the streets in Athens, I get to a bark fight between people dogs, every 50 meters. So should I have a dossier with law document so i can press charges left and right?Or should I try to get a license for an automatic and again, the Cinderella thing with the bells and go for dog hunt?

In general there is no reason to do anything unless the dogs attack, at least in Greece.

P.S.
The "I have a gun" was cool though. What if you yelled that and for response you got "I have a Tank!" and you heard heavy engine roar and squeaky wheels closing in on you!!

[MMock]

I believe (now that I have some distance from the event and can analyze my own actions), that "I have a gun" was a warning. Not a threat. I don't know if that's just semantics, but to me it's telling him what might happen if he doesn't react. What if I had said nothing except Help! Followed by "call off your GD dogs" then I shot them? Which, after speaking with an ex-police officer that i work with, would've fallen under protecting myself/my property. I probably wouldn't have been criminally charged because I didn't break a law. I might've been charged with a civil offense because maybe I didn't have to go to such an extreme. Investigators would probably analyze how far away was the dog when I shot it because maybe I didn't have to, were there bite marks on any of us, etc. They would assess the actual danger. It's a difficult question, how long do you wait and how serious do you let the situation get? Because if one of the dogs went after my arm/hand and bit me, it would be much more difficult to defend myself. You try not to let it get to the point of being too late when you could've done something.

Another thing that bothers me is dogs run out at us occasionally and it's usually a quiet neighborhood. We walk by two houses across the street from each other on a busy road and are constantly barked at by four dogs on one side and two dogs on the other. But they're kept in the yard with an invisible fence. Because if they ran out, it's likely they'd get hit by a car. I just feel people on quiet streets have a fence to keep their dogs in the yard for the dogs safety, not the people and dogs walking by, because if the dogs run out it's no big deal, there's hardly any traffic. So the fence isn't turned up high enough to really deter the dogs from getting out.

[Sitten Spynne]

If I were you, I'd be less worried about the police and more about the homeowner.

If you heard shouting outside and, upon investigation, found a stranger swearing and announcing, "I have a gun!" would you go outside to find out what's going on? If it happened to me, I'd be preparing my own gun while calling the police.

The laws in my jurisdiction are very vague about what qualifies a "thread" and when a homeowner can defend themselves from one. This plays very badly in your direction since often the victim was fatally wounded and doesn't have a story to tell the jury in their defense. Similarly, if an officer arrives to this call for a "disorderly, potentially armed individual" I think it takes some stones to optimistically believe they'll ask questions before drawing their own weapons. Juries especially side with them.

I think it gets worse if you'd actually fired upon the dogs. It's irresponsible to discharge a firearm in a neighborhood due to the immense risk of inadvertently wounding an innocent. It's likely the homeowner, if he has arms, would be inspired to fire back.

I think if this happens again your best tools are non-lethal solutions like pepper spray and a healthy dose of "walk the other way". The less you are "on the homeowner's property", the less likely you appear a threat. The less shouting about guns you do, the harder it is to interpret you as a threat. The dogs aren't muggers, they don't know what a gun is. The more you shout, the more riled up they'll get.

Definitely report them to the police if they're routinely loose, and don't walk that way anymore. This thread could be evidence "you knew the dogs were a problem" and a clever prosecutor might try to paint that as evidence you "intended to shoot the dogs as a premeditated act" if you get threatened again and end up having to do that.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

I believe (now that I have some distance from the event and can analyze my own actions), that "I have a gun" was a warning. Not a threat. I don't know if that's just semantics, but to me it's telling him what might happen if he doesn't react.

Its clear to me after reading your thoughts on it that thats what you meant, however the guy that owns the dogs doesn't know you and doesn't know what your thinking.

I would just remember that, in these kind of situations people dont have the benefit of analysis in the moment and act based upon what they think your intentions are not what they actually are.

Telling someone you have a gun feels threatening to me, even if that not how you meant it. Maybe we are all over analysing this now as it was a momentary action that in the end caused no harm apart from the fact that afterwards you were worried about your action enough to post your experience here.

[sapator]

I will return to the gun thing.
So over here that we do not have guns to shoot at barking dogs, how do we live by?
I don't know, maybe you are used to carrying but even if I had a gun, I wouldn't yelled that I have one when dogs barked at me.Until they attacked of course.
If they attacked then I would have shot them.
Also you said you have an aggressive dog. Maybe the dogs weren't actually barking at you but at your dog that responded back "kindly". The justification I can give is that the dogs where loose. Since no harm was done, you can call the police for that loose neighbor dogs.If they are loose to this day then, definitely call the police.
So I agree that it was your neighbor fault that he has loose dogs, I do not agree on the "I have a gun" scream, for any reason or explanation.
I see dogs barking..I have a gun!...A guy wants to clear my car window...I have a gun!An operator is trying to sell me cheap telephone services..I have a gun!Vb forum user giving wrong code to an answer..(oh yeah)..I HAVE A GUN!!

[jmcilhinney]

I think one thing that people may be missing is that "I have a gun" was not the first or only thing that MMock said to the other person.

I was yelling for the people in the house to come get their dogs. [...] finally I yelled I have a gun.

I can't say for sure what the other person thought and why but, to me, if someone is telling me to get their dogs away from them and then they tell me I have a gun, I'm not thinking that they are threatening me but rather the dogs. It's possible that the other person thought that meant "if you don't come out and get your dogs then I'm going to come in and shoot you" but that's not exactly logical.

[jmcilhinney]

I wouldn't yelled that I have one when dogs barked at me.Until they attacked of course.

So rather than try to prevent an attack in the first place, you'd have waited until you were actually being attacked and then... yelled that you had a gun? Seems like a bad course of action to me. I'm not fan of guns myself. I'm Australian and we have fairly tight gun laws in Australia and I think that America could do with tighter gun laws too That's by the by though. A responsible gun owner wants to avoid using it so I would suggest that basically letting someone know that their dogs are going to get shot if they attack would be motivation for that person to prevent that attack and thus render the gun unnecessary. Of course, it's also possible that someone might hear that statement and decide they need to bring out their own gun and things could escalate.

[sapator]

So rather than try to prevent an attack in the first place, you'd have waited until you were actually being attacked and then... yelled that you had a gun?

No I meant that if they attacked then I would have shot them.
There is no "responsible gun owner". Do we think that it's like getting a drivers license here?Like if you pass the driving test then you are a responsible driver?Does the same thing apply to guns?Is there a responsibility test?I think not, so a responsible gun owner is most likely one that does not own a gun, or has the goodwill in his mind to be responsible, but we do not know that.

Ah just remember that we can actually own shotguns if we have a hunter license....And now thinking how many idiotic hunter have shot their children or co hunters by accident and also how many children found their dads gun and start playing and shot themselves.

[TysonLPrice]

A responsible gun owner has good gun control...good gun control is hitting your target.

[jmcilhinney]

A responsible gun owner has good gun control...good gun control is hitting your target.

That is, in my opinion, a completely ridiculous statement. By that logic, someone responsible for a mass shooting at a school could be considered a responsible gun owner if they don't waste any bullets. It could also have led to two dead dogs in this particular case. One problem that I think a lot of people have with guns in the US is not so much that people want guns but that they want to use them. I've had discussions with people and it certainly comes across as their genuinely wanting someone to break into their home so that they can shoot and kill them with impunity. They don't care about whether the person actually poses a threat to their safety or not. They are effectively imposing a death sentence for B&E. Maybe you consider that responsible gun ownership. I certainly don't.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Reminds me of a police shooting a few years back. I think they hit the suspect....eventually, but it was police from three different towns and they hit EVERYTHING else in the area, first. Cars, houses, all kinds of stuff. In the end, they had to figure out the number of shots fired by agency, and divvy up the damage payments based on the percentage of bullets from each agency.

They did something like that with an elk that wandered into town. I'm not sure why they shot the elk. It was a bull, though, so perhaps they were just shooting the bull, but they took far too many shots at something the size of a car. At least it was only one police department, so the calculations were easier.

[jmcilhinney]

I would certainly agree that responsible gun ownership entails being able to hit a target, but there's much more to it than that. While I could be wrong, I suspect that TysonLPrice would agree and was just attempting to make a joke, if a somewhat tasteless one.

[Shaggy Hiker]

It's actually a fairly common 'joke' in the US.

[jmcilhinney]

It's actually a fairly common 'joke' in the US.

There are a lot of common jokes about US gun control outside the US too.

[sapator]

Another thing that we see at the news is Police officers shooting at (mostly black) people because they stop them and the man tries to grab a drink or something from his pocket and the Police immediately thinks that it's a gun (as ownership is allowed) and they shoot at the suspect.

Also drunk people that own a gun could certainly shoot without understanding on what they are doing.And of course there are the massacres from young people to young people.
Of course the excuse is that we need to protect yourself from a thief. That is a valid argument but firstly the thief may have a gun because ownership is allowed and secondly, how everyone else in the world goes by without shooting thiefs with a gun?

I would tend to agree with JMC that people in US want to get into situation that they can fire their gun but I can't be sure as I am not a USAian and do not know how they think onn the subject and the short time I went to the states I didn't get to that discussion as I had other things to do.

[TysonLPrice]

It's actually a fairly common 'joke' in the US.

And that was the intent...

Everyone thinks they have a sense of humor; even people that don't (Steve Martin - My Blue Heaven)

[MMock]

I think one thing that people may be missing is that "I have a gun" was the first or only thing that MMock said to the other person.

I can't say for sure what the other person thought and why but, to me, if someone is telling me to get their dogs away from them and then they tell me I have a gun, I'm not thinking that they are threatening me but rather the dogs. It's possible that the other person thought that meant "if you don't come out and get your dogs then I'm going to come in and shoot you" but that's not exactly logical.

This is why I like you. Not only is my code SO MUCH BETTER because of your patient and comprehensive advice, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders in general.

However, was that a typo? "'I have a gun' was NOT the first or only thing" I said?

I haven't been back to read this thread in a few days, and wow. There is a lot that has been said.

I think my reason for posting in the first place was because I wasn't even sure if what I said was "okay". But speaking with two retired officers at work, they said I did nothing wrong. Of course, they know me.

And I probably misnamed this thread because I probably didn't threaten my neighbor but was afraid I had. Because you can't really threaten a dog. They don't know what you're saying. But clearly he understood me and the threat.

My hesitance for posting in the first place was that this is a controversial topic. I wish the USA was like other countries and I didn't need a gun. I don't think I am an accurate shooter so it would have to be an extreme situation and the right situation for me to use it (the woods and a coyote is charging at us, for example). Because even if I had it with me in a movie theater and a shooting broke out, am I going to be able to hit the perpetrator, or an innocent? I like having it with me when I walk the parks and trails in town which are not always populated or safe given the potential for wild animals or murderers or rapists.

[topshot]

So if it got to that point I maybe would've fired up the air but even that to me is scary and not something I'd want to do except if there was an actual fight going on to scare them.

I forgot to mention please don't ever shoot up in the air unless perhaps you are literally in the middle of nowhere. Don't shoot down at a hard surface either where it will ricochet. You are responsible for where your bullet will hit. Any "warning" shot should be down at normal land.

I wish the USA was like other countries and I didn't need a gun.

Do you think other countries have no violent crimes? People get robbed, beaten, raped, etc everywhere in the world.

[Shaggy Hiker]

While we're on the subject, don't shoot over water unless there is nothing a VERY long ways down range, because bullets will skip.

I've sometimes (in fact, just recently) thought to offer up a service to edit typos in posts of prolific members. All the prolific members are good typists, but we all slip occasionally. I'm tempted to just fix a word, but that leaves tracks, and I don't want anybody thinking I'm tampering with their posts without their permission.

Also, if you listen to the first story on this, it's an entertaining example of an animal attack:

https://soundcloud.com/storystorynig...y-logan-cramer

I know this one because I followed it with a story about having a bull moose try to pick a fight with me after a cow moose decided to brush him off by coming over to stand beside me. I'm no fan of carrying guns for self defense in the backcountry in most places. Guns are too heavy, and not nearly useful enough, in most situations. Of course, that's because I have to carry everything on my back, so I have to weigh the cost versus the benefit for everything.

However, you CAN threaten a dog. I knew a hiker who would take a step towards aggressive dogs and put a hand to his cap. That was enough. Most dogs would run, so they got the message. I've done something similar. Of course, dogs react MUCH differently towards other dogs.

[jmcilhinney]

However, was that a typo? "'I have a gun' was NOT the first or only thing" I said?

Yes that was a typo. Not an important one though. It just changed the meaning to the complete opposite! I've corrected it now so thanks.

I don't think I am an accurate shooter

I'd suggest that you should probably change that if you can. Regardless of the intent of TysonLPrice's earlier post, I would say that part of responsible gun ownership is being as good and as comfortable at using it as you can be. I think people should hope to never have to use a gun in anger but be prepared to do so well if they have one. I think that it's reasonable to assume that many of the people who end up a victim of their own gun simply didn't know how to use it properly. It's also worth considering that, if you do have to use it, you're likely to be scared and rushed at the time. Even if you can hit a target while standing still at a firing range, that doesn't mean that you will be able to when you or your target or both are moving and your life may depend on making the shot, but the chances of making that shot if you can't even do it at a firing range, maybe because you've never tried, are much reduced. I don't know how much time you have put into becoming proficient but, in my opinion, if you're going to have a gun then you owe it to yourself and everyone else to do everything you can to be able to use it as safely as possible.

[MMock]

....typo...changed the meaning to the complete opposite!

A witty comment to cover up your embarrassment!

I'd suggest that you should probably change that if you can...part of responsible gun ownership is being as good an as comfortable at using it as you can be

You are right! My husband and I go on again off again trying to find a range. It shouldn't be, but it seems very difficult t find one, either because they are far or you have to join a club or whatever. All I remember from my permit classes is hold it with two hands and expect the kickback to knock me on my butt. Oh, and aim down the barrel, of course.

[sapator]

The thing here is that not everybody can be proficient with a gun even if they try.
I guess there is no test at all (not sure about psychological) on getting a gun in US? So it all comes up to the owner to be responsible.
In my opinion there should be dozen of tests both mental and physical before you are allowed to carry a gun because it can deprive life.
If you can't shoot correctly then even if you carry it for coyotes or roadrunners it wont be useful. In that case I suggest instead of a shot in the air to scare the animal, a plastic bag filled with air to pop
(Also I would suggest as a complimentary license test, a field with moving targets, mud and burning earth, with ropes and stuff and terrorists trying to shoot at you.Mmmm.)

I have a correction to make here, just left it with the purpose to see if any of the Greek "culture" is known. In Crete, almost everyone owns a gun legally or illegally so back there there is a good ol' sport called vendetta that families shoot each other for payback and this can go on for generations and generation. So here is an example of bad usage of weapons, but , well they also use knifes so in the spirit of "sportsmanship" the victim will sometimes get a change to defend itself (ninja fight! A, yiah, aaaa yiaaaahhhh!!!) .

Finally to those countries (such us ours) that joining the army for a year or so is mandatory, we know pretty well how to use guns. I have shot from a little one to a big automatic, so I guess i have a saying and a reason to not like them, although I was an exceptional shooter and I could have made a career in the army I just don't like the damn things.

Now that I have said all that, if I was in the US and everyone was carrying then I would also have carried, so I can protect myself from the carriers. But...I would have wanted the biggest, bad a$$est gun I could get my hands on. If I could get an UZI then an UZI, if I could get a bazooka then a bazooka, if I could get a Tank then a Tank. You either do it and go for pro or you don't do it at all

[Shaggy Hiker]

It's an odd fact that in most states in the US you have to do fairly extensive training if you want a gun to shoot anything OTHER than a human. As long as you want the gun to shoot a human, there is no restriction in any way.

That's certainly a quirky way to look at it, but it's oddly true. In response to large numbers of hunting accidents, most states adopted some form of hunter education program. In Idaho, if you want to hunt any animal you need a license (to do so legally, anyways), which requires proof of completing a hunters education course. That course in Idaho is considerably more involved than what you'd have to do to get a drivers license. It's a multi-day course covering ethics, gun safety, hunting laws, and so on. However, that's only if you want a hunting license. If you just want a gun for self defense, you need.....nothing at all. You can even avoid a background check, in case you are legally prevented from having a gun.

So, to drive a car, we require a proof of minimal competency, which is accepted because the potential to kill somebody with a car is pretty high. To get a CDL (to drive big rigs) you go through an even more rigorous test due to the even greater potential to cause death and destruction. I studied for days for that one. Had I gotten a hazardous chemical endorsement I would have not only had to take an even MORE rigorous test, but I'd have to take the test again every now and then. To hunt an animal for food or sport requires an even more extensive training. To own a gun if it is not to be used for hunting, requires nothing at all.

It's a weird world.

[topshot]

All I remember from my permit classes is hold it with two hands and expect the kickback to knock me on my butt.

You don't need to be Dirty Harry. A 9mm will suffice. Unless you're < 100 lbs maybe, no butt-knocking will ensue.

[Sitten Spynne]

You don't think you're an accurate shot, yet you carry and expect to discharge in a neighborhood?

That's the first three rules from the NRA.

Sell your gun and carry pepper spray before you inadvertently kill someone's kid.

[sapator]

I wouldn't even carry pepper spray.
I would carry stakes for the dogs so they can eat and leave you alone.
Come to think of it, pepper spray might help, you use it on the stakes, spray them and give them to the dogs for extra flavor.
That is called positive defense

P.S. Also carry some sausages, dogs may prefer them over stakes, you never know.

Edit. I would love a stake or a sausage right now, sooo, BARK! BARK BARK!!! GRRRR!!! BARK!!!! ARF ARFFF!!!