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Thread: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

  1. #1

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    Exclamation Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Just had this update install and two things happened. Well, more than that but these had impact on doing VB6 development.

    One was that I lost my VB6 appcompat shims. I had to reinstall them because the IDE was not elevating, though oddly when I did Windows told me that the settings were already in place, I had to answer "yes" to a query before it proceeded.

    See: Win10 AppCompat VB6 IDE


    Then I noticed that my Start Menu shortcut for the MSDN Library documentation was gone. I had to add this again as well.

    See: Win10 Anniversary Update broke my MSDN Library


    I hope this helps others.
    Last edited by dilettante; Nov 5th, 2017 at 08:26 PM.

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Thanks for the heads-up...
    If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there...

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    VB-aholic & Lovin' It LaVolpe's Avatar
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    dilettante did you experience this too...?

    v1709 "Fall Creator's Update" just finished installing. When attempting to start VB, I get "Can't find DAO350.dll". So I go to the c:\program files\common files\microsoft shared\dao as Admin and register it. Now try to open VB and "unexpected error". Only get the splash screen. So, I unregister it to see what would happen & as expected: get the the error again that it can't be found.

    Thought I'd ask before I start the reinstall of VB.

    Edited & follow-up. Even reinstalling VB introduced new problems. The re-install went pretty well except at the very end, got an error that "a component failed to install" or something like that. Didn't say what component. Well, continued on and installed the 2004 SP6 and then tried to open VB -- success. But not really. Many components didn't show up in the toolbox. Not even sure which should be there; need to compare it to my Vista install. Did notice that the common controls v5 and datagrid were not there. I selected them via the toolbox browse window and got a couple projects running that had them as dependencies. Gotta wonder how many other things are not quite right now?
    Last edited by LaVolpe; Dec 6th, 2017 at 10:01 PM.
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    No, I had (and have) no problem starting VB6 at this point. I am also able to add a reference to DAO 3.51 or DAO 3.6 either.

    It really sounds like something else happened to your machine.

    I've been developing on Win10 32-bit, so I suppose there could be some WOW64 issues with the way the 1709 Update installed. Aside from that it is hard to think of reasons why we got different results.


    So far the only issues I've encountered are the two I mentioned in post #1 above. That doesn't mean there isn't another big dirty shoe just waiting to drop.

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    VB-aholic & Lovin' It LaVolpe's Avatar
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Maybe something happened, other oddities. For example, wanted to uninstall VB before reinstalling. But some of my previously installed apps didn't showed up any longer. In the process of reinstalling SQL Sever 2014 right now because it was also "lost" during the update. Didn't have any errors during the Win 10 update. Just took a bit of time.
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    I've had a few applications "disappear" after these large updates too. So far it has been centered around a 3rd party package for restoring the Vista sidebar gadget facility and another for restoring a few of the old Vista games. I like a few gadgets, and I play a few of the old games when waiting for phone calls or some lengthy process like a backup to complete.

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Just FYI, appears Win 10 seriously broke my VB, but other things too. Looks like a complete Windows reinstall for me. Fortunately, I use another drive as shared data among the various installs. So won't lose anything but time reinstalling the O/S & other apps.

    After reinstalling VB, it never installed 100%; always had a "component failed to register" at the end. But VB worked, at least I thought so. Lost many of the toolbox non-instrinsic controls, so uninstalled and reinstalled and they came back, but then none of the Add-Ins worked; VB reported each "were invalid" and offered to remove them from the list. So uninstalled and reinstalled VB and now all the Add-Ins are gone, i.e., no Res Editor, nothing. Attempted to reinstall SQL Server 2014 Express... wow -- the crashes were impressive. Done playing with this and if it weren't for the crashes, I'd simply rollback the update first.
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    Frenzied Member gibra's Avatar
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    I had to reformat my PC with Windows 10.
    After, I was able to reinstall everything but I permanently blocked Windows Update.
    At this point I'm no longer interested in installing Microsoft updates (as I had done with Windows 7).
    For me, that Windows Updates rest in peace.

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Well I'm not sure why some people experience extreme problems and others do not.

    The machine I use for most activities including development got a full install of Windows 10 1507 from scratch, using the "free Win10 upgrade" using the license key from a $35 "upgrade" DVD for Win8 that I had never used. If had more confidence I could have used a $15 "key-only upgrade" for Win8 but I like to have the media for long term security.

    A secondary machine shipped with Win7 so the "free Win10 upgrade" applied directly, but I still did a full install rather than an "upgrade install."


    Whether doing those full installs left me with a cleaner OS or not I couldn't say for certain. Things haven't been trouble-free regarding each new Win10 major update, but at least I'm not running into utter chaos. Nothing to convince me to do something as silly as blocking all further Windows Update activity, just individual patches here and there until Microsoft unravels the problem and reissues them.

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by gibra View Post
    At this point I'm no longer interested in installing Microsoft updates
    I wish I could do that, but it's just not an option for me. Most of my users' machines are still running Windows 8 or Windows 7. But they are slowly moving to Windows 10. Now, a machine compiled executable seems to work fine, or at least I haven't seen any huge issues. However, I still find myself in a situation where I've got to install the IDE on one of their machines (and just FYI, my clients are the ones who keep VB6's prices up on eBay ). This is just needed to put myself in a situation where I can track down the occasional bug, using their data, their MS-Office configuration, etc. In other words, I've got to try my best to stay on top of keeping the IDE up and running on the latest version of Windows.

    I don't think Microsoft cares any longer, but if I was paranoid, I'd think Microsoft was deliberately doing this. But I think it's just a matter of them making changes with a total disregard for the VB6 IDE. And the VB6 IDE does do some fairly "tricky" things.

    It does warm my soul in a certain way to see others struggling through how to best deal with these issues, hopefully deriving resolutions.

    Best Regards,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    VB6 is licensed per-developer.

    Even if you need to install it in order to troubleshoot and fix a problem... no additional licenses are required as long as only the licensee makes use of the product.

    Note that this is a developer license, not a license for a business or corporate entity. If these "clients" buy and install VB6 for you to use they still cannot make any use of it themselves. Thus it makes no sense for them to acquire VS/VB 6.0 licenses "for you."

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Something else to watch out for.

    Windows 10 is "forever" but only as long as your hardware is supported. This can take different forms, but here's one:

    After one of the recent major updates (probably 1709) my second monitor always gets "turned off" when Windows boots. There are two ways to get it turned back on:

    1. Restart.

    2. Go to Display Settings and change something like the resolution, then choose "Revert" when prompted to go back to your desired settings.

    Next cold boot the issue returns.

    The display adapter driver is one supplied by the vendor (ATI/AMD in this case) even though the video card is listed at their site as "not supported on Windows 10." This probably really means "not fully supported on Windows 10 anymore."

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Yes, I had to re-jig the settings (for scaling) on my second monitor (actually an HD TV) after one of the recent updates. Irritating...
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    This is just needed to put myself in a situation where I can track down the occasional bug, using their data, their MS-Office configuration, etc. In other words, I've got to try my best to stay on top of keeping the IDE up and running on the latest version of Windows.
    Honestly, in about 20 years of development I have always faced these problems before distributing my applications, running numerous tests on virtual machines (VirtualBox and VMWare) with various versions of Windows.

    I have never in the slightest thought that my customers have to buy and install a license of VB6.0, which is also impossible, from a legal point of view, but extremely absurd since I also use many third-party components.

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    VB-aholic & Lovin' It LaVolpe's Avatar
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Quite time consuming, but all looks good -- updated to Win10 1709 and could be good to go for the next couple of major updates; pristine-like registry now

    BTW. VB now works as expected, mousewheel fix recognized and works again, along with other applicable add-ins I use often. No longer got the "component failed to register" error after clean O/S install. SQL Server 2014 installed w/o a hitch as did another 1/2 dozen or so apps I decided to install today.
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    In order to compil my applications, before distributing, I have a VM with XP isntalled on it, and only VB6.
    Totally clean VM, no update etc...

    So I compile everything there, then no problems at all.

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Thierry69 View Post
    In order to compil my applications, before distributing, I have a VM with XP isntalled on it, and only VB6.
    Totally clean VM, no update etc...

    So I compile everything there, then no problems at all.
    I pretty much do the same, except maybe my VM isn't as clean. It's got all the last updates and some extras.
    Virtualbox makes VM's so easy.
    Imagine what it would be like to set breakpoints in, or step through subclassing code;
    and then being able to hit stop/end/debug or continue, without crashing the IDE.

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by gibra View Post
    buy and install a license of VB6.0, which is also impossible, from a legal point of view, but extremely absurd since I also use many third-party components
    I suspect I'm a bit touchy these days, so I'll assume that's not meant to be a personal attack in any way.

    But, just saying, what's the problem with buying a complete (originally from Microsoft) version of the VB6 IDE (with CD and original key included) off of eBay? Do you feel that there's a legal problem there? (Just honestly asking.) Also, VB6 is still fully available from Microsoft if you're willing to pay for a Visual Studio Subscription.

    Also, regarding third party controls, I'm not going to say they don't have their uses, but I personally abandoned them many years ago, so that's not a problem for me. When VB6 (and VB5 and earlier) first came out, I loved perusing through the little 3rd party magazine. But, in my experience, they were typically too buggy to deal with.

    Best Regards,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

  19. #19
    PowerPoster Elroy's Avatar
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    And let me ask another question. Does anyone believe that a machine-compiled EXE from the VB6 IDE from a command prompt (which is the way I do it) with something like the following ...

    Code:
    "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio\VB98\VB6" /MAKE "MyProgram.vbp" /outdir "C:\Users\Elroy\Desktop"
    ... could possibly result in a different executable that depended on some IDE installation setting, or whether or not we were using a VM?

    I've always assumed that, given the compile settings in the VBP, and a successful compile, that the resulting EXE would always be the same.

    I'll also put the caveat in that our VB6.exe doesn't have any viruses attached to it (and that our OS isn't infected whereas it'd attach a virus to any new EXE).

    I haven't really done any testing on this, but I'll be interested in the opinions.

    Best Regards,
    Elroy

    EDIT1: I suppose another caveat I'll put in is that, whatever references (particularly OCX files) are in the project, the same set is registered on the two places it's being compiled.
    Last edited by Elroy; Dec 8th, 2017 at 08:52 AM.
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

  20. #20

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    If you get the entire package there is nothing wrong with buying off eBay. If they do not supply all of the original CDs and any printed materials that came with them then the seller does not have transfer rights and you do not have a legal copy.

    It is more an issue of being unnecessary than anything else. You can install VS/VB 6.0 on as many machines as you want as long as you are the only user of the copy of the product.


    I see no benefit in compiling on XP. None at all. Testing is another matter entirely, especially testing your install and uninstall process.


    We are off in the weeds though.

  21. #21
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    If you get the entire package there is nothing wrong with buying off eBay.
    Thank you for that, Dilettante. The main thing I'm sure to get is the CD with the orange key sticker on the back of it. But I don't think I've ever bought one that didn't actually have the box and all the other nonsense with it. I even occasionally get one that's still shrink-wrapped. And many of my clients are savvy enough that they like to peruse my source code, so I do need more than one legal copy. And just because, I actually have three legal copies sitting on my shelf, two that I bought when it was still available in stores (the third from eBay which I'll sell to a client if they ever get scarce on eBay).

    Best Regards,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided “AS IS” without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. Please understand that I’ve been programming since the mid-1970s and still have some of that code. My contemporary VB6 project is approaching 1,000 modules. In addition, I have a “VB6 random code folder” that is overflowing. I’ve been at this long enough to truly not know with absolute certainty from whence every single line of my code has come, with much of it coming from programmers under my employ who signed intellectual property transfers. I have not deliberately attempted to remove any licenses and/or attributions from any software. If someone finds that I have inadvertently done so, I sincerely apologize, and, upon notice and reasonable proof, will re-attach those licenses and/or attributions. To all, peace and happiness.

  22. #22
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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    dilettante, building on Windows will help of the application still needs to run on XP (still a lot of clients are using XP).
    In the past (log time ago), I compiled under W7 and users under W98 or XP had some problems.
    So doing this way, everything is fixed, and it doesn't take too much time, as everything is configured to open the VM, compile the app, then close the VM.
    Then after that, under the real development computer, the EXE is UPX and full setup created

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Thierry69 View Post
    dilettante, building on Windows will help of the application still needs to run on XP (still a lot of clients are using XP).
    In the past (log time ago), I compiled under W7 and users under W98 or XP had some problems.
    So doing this way, everything is fixed, and it doesn't take too much time, as everything is configured to open the VM, compile the app, then close the VM.
    Then after that, under the real development computer, the EXE is UPX and full setup created
    I've seen the similar issues with dependencies, although I couldn't tell you what it's been so long.
    Imagine what it would be like to set breakpoints in, or step through subclassing code;
    and then being able to hit stop/end/debug or continue, without crashing the IDE.

    VB6.tlb | Bulletproof Subclassing in the IDE (no thunks/assembly/DEP issues)

  24. #24

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Thierry69 View Post
    dilettante, building on Windows will help of the application still needs to run on XP (still a lot of clients are using XP).
    In the past (log time ago), I compiled under W7 and users under W98 or XP had some problems.
    First, XP is dead. It is unsafe to use, especially if connected to the Internet.

    Second, your problem is undoubtedly Win 7 SP1. This is not a safe OS to develop on at all. There were a number of weird compatibility breaks and these were never fixed and won't ever be fixed for Win7SP1. You must move to a later OS.

    Third, the Win7SP1 issues can occur deploying to Windows Vista and Windows 7 Gold as well. Both of these are as dead and unsafe now as XP.


    Simple fix: move to Windows 10 ASAP. I have no problem compiling and packaging VB6 programs that run as far back as Windows 95.

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    Re: Win 10 Fall "Creator's" Update broke my VB6

    dilettante, sure.
    I totally agree
    I have Windows 10 since the first day, and no problems for me.
    but with more than 1500 clients, a good % still use Win XP.
    Last year, 1 client was still using W98 but migrated to Win 10 (and a new computer) earlier this year. Even 5% are running on the "pear" os
    I can't decide for clients to use such windows as my app are worldwide distributed, and not so easy also to manage different languages are they are also multi-language, in the interface, and the generation of documents, reports...

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