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Thread: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

  1. #1

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    Unhappy VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Hello fellow coders,

    We produce professional industrial software written in VB6 (started in VB3) with few C++ DLLs.
    It passed Windows NT, 2000, VISTA (where the problems began), is working very well in Win7 64 as well, but Win10 brought with it new grief (which is changing as MS change your Win10 all the time).
    The most famous crash shows MSXML6.DLL as faulting module from System32, although the one we ref is in SysWOW64.
    The crashes are typical to a Win10 PC (and probably whatever OTHER software is installed on it, as they all use XML). It works OK one one PC with SAME "updates", but crash on another.

    The crashes are mostly in the same address (not always) and many times OTHER DLLS crash together (mostly UxTheme.DLL)

    The crashes are somehow different if Win10 was installed fresh from DVD or Win10 is an upgrade or previous Win7.
    Already changed Themes, ran MSXML6 and _64 from MS installers, same results
    The app relies on XML docs,can't bypass that. Small test apps using same XML don't crash, but the real one used dozens of XML docs.
    Our app is VB6SP6 32 bit, IDE running nicely on 64-but Win7 or Win10. Needless to say, running in the IDE it never crash!, just the EXE does,

    Does anyone know MSXML6 crashes like this?
    Is there more / better SP for VB6 under Win10 other than the years-old SP6?
    Anyone knows if for Win10 we need to change some compile settings in the IDE?


    Thanks for any insight.

  2. #2
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Since you described the problems as "somewhat erratic" (and depending on the amount of XML-Docs you parse),
    could it be, that you simply run into memory-allocation-problems?

    In your shoes, I'd check (on a machine which "reliably reproduces the crashes"),
    how the process-memory evolves during runtime, until the crash happens (using Task-Manager).

    Maybe a better cleanup of (not used anymore and still open) XML-DocObjects,
    as well as careful checking of (potentially produced) cyclic-references which might prevent proper cleanup,
    will worth a try.

    If your Docs are smaller or midsized ones (not boosting the mem-consumption of your VB6-Process
    above ~1GB of RAM), and if the current mem-consumption (on non-crashing machines) will properly get down
    again (e.g. when closing intermediate Forms, or finishing intermediate Jobs), then the problem does
    not seem to be memory-related - and you could try to switch to other, simpler XML-Parsing-COMponents
    (if you don't need all the "special features" like XSD-support and stuff).

    If the Docs are very large, memory-intensive ones, you might consider switching to SAX-parsing instead
    (at least for the larger XML-Docs, to avoid this trap and boost performance).

    Edit:
    Forgot to mention, that "erratic crashes" in one Dll are not necessarily caused by said Dll...
    It might very well be, that another piece of code (in a SubClasser, or other lower-level APIs
    which might use incorrectly defined UDTs or API-calls) overwrite Memory-areas they shouldn't,
    or mess up the stack or something... the crashes could then happen "an undefined amount of time later"
    (in an entirely different module, which was not the real culprit, but ran into the "messed up memory-areas").



    Olaf
    Last edited by Schmidt; Sep 17th, 2017 at 11:34 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    You give almost no useful information in your question post. However I haven't seen anything to suggest that MSXML 6.0 has any particular issues on any released build of "Windows 10."


    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    ... It passed Windows NT, 2000, VISTA (where the problems began), ...
    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    ... Our app is VB6SP6 32 bit, IDE running nicely on 64-but Win7 or Win10. Needless to say, running in the IDE it never crash!, just the EXE does, ...
    This suggests that your application was written for Win9x and only works by luck and appcompat on WinNT (when it does at all). Many people try to program without taking into the account many of the very real differences between DOS-based Win9x and NT. Most commonly security is the ignored factor. This can break Win9x style coding once UAC comes into the picture and enforces awareness of the NT security model.

    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    ... Small test apps using same XML don't crash, but the real one used dozens of XML docs...
    This just reinforces the possibility that what you have here is a programming architecture or logic problem and not some sort of "MSXML6" problem.


    We don't know what you are having trouble with. MSXML contains several different sets of classes. If I had to guess it seems likely you are struggling with DOM and not SAX2, or maybe your issues are related to DOM with XSLT?

    Without some specific information ("Crashes?" er, "What crashes?") it is really not possible to do anything but make wild ass guesses.

    You also seem to be scrambling around trying to look where you think the light is good. Seriously, what do VB6 Service Packs or whether Windows 10 was installed from a DVD have to do with anything?

    If you have failures within UxTheme.dll your problems are almost certainly somewhere else.

    Can you try taking another stab at explaining the problem? A repeatable test case would also do wonders for helping us help you.
    Last edited by dilettante; Sep 17th, 2017 at 03:53 PM.

  4. #4

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    Since you described the problems as "somewhat erratic" (and depending on the amount of XML-Docs you parse),
    could it be, that you simply run into memory-allocation-problems?

    In your shoes, I'd check (on a machine which "reliably reproduces the crashes"),
    how the process-memory evolves during runtime, until the crash happens (using Task-Manager).

    Maybe a better cleanup of (not used anymore and still open) XML-DocObjects,
    as well as careful checking of (potentially produced) cyclic-references which might prevent proper cleanup,
    will worth a try.

    If your Docs are smaller or midsized ones (not boosting the mem-consumption of your VB6-Process
    above ~1GB of RAM), and if the current mem-consumption (on non-crashing machines) will properly get down
    again (e.g. when closing intermediate Forms, or finishing intermediate Jobs), then the problem does
    not seem to be memory-related - and you could try to switch to other, simpler XML-Parsing-COMponents
    (if you don't need all the "special features" like XSD-support and stuff).

    If the Docs are very large, memory-intensive ones, you might consider switching to SAX-parsing instead
    (at least for the larger XML-Docs, to avoid this trap and boost performance).

    Edit:
    Forgot to mention, that "erratic crashes" in one Dll are not necessarily caused by said Dll...
    It might very well be, that another piece of code (in a SubClasser, or other lower-level APIs
    which might use incorrectly defined UDTs or API-calls) overwrite Memory-areas they shouldn't,
    or mess up the stack or something... the crashes could then happen "an undefined amount of time later"
    (in an entirely different module, which was not the real culprit, but ran into the "messed up memory-areas").



    Olaf
    Hi,

    Good answer, makes a lot of sense, does explain why different things crash, "overwriting memory" will certainly do that.
    But the question was "what has changed in Win 10 latest 'updates' to cause these problems, when the exact same program is running nicely for 15 years?"
    The reason to ask about MSXML6 is that in every crash, even if more that one DLL is mentioned as faulting process, MSXML6 was there. The other reason was,if I run the IDE, i could trace the program crashing ALWAYS on an XML line (OpenDoc, process DOC, close DOC etc.)
    Our XML docs are relatively small, around 1-5K each.
    So back to the original question, "what has changed in Win10 affecting XML in VB6?"

    Thanks.

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    You give almost no useful information in your question post. However I haven't seen anything to suggest that MSXML 6.0 has any particular issues on any released build of "Windows 10."





    This suggests that your application was written for Win9x and only works by luck and appcompat on WinNT (when it does at all). Many people try to program without taking into the account many of the very real differences between DOS-based Win9x and NT. Most commonly security is the ignored factor. This can break Win9x style coding once UAC comes into the picture and enforces awareness of the NT security model.



    This just reinforces the possibility that what you have here is a programming architecture or logic problem and not some sort of "MSXML6" problem.


    We don't know what you are having trouble with. MSXML contains several different sets of classes. If I had to guess it seems likely you are struggling with DOM and not SAX2, or maybe your issues are related to DOM with XSLT?

    Without some specific information ("Crashes?" er, "What crashes?") it is really not possible to do anything but make wild ass guesses.

    You also seem to be scrambling around trying to look where you think the light is good. Seriously, what do VB6 Service Packs or whether Windows 10 was installed from a DVD have to do with anything?

    If you have failures within UxTheme.dll your problems are almost certainly somewhere else.

    Can you try taking another stab at explaining the problem? A repeatable test case would also do wonders for helping us help you.
    Hello,

    Please see my reply to the previous post, and allow me to add:
    If someone pours water into a gas station gasoline tanks, many cars will have engine trouble.
    Is this a reason to check each car engine, fuel system design or other related issue?
    When a perfectly working program fails ONE MORNING, and several users around the globe say "it was working OK yesterday, and today it crash (after "Creator Update" at night), then why look into our program, efficiency or compatibility? The question is, as above, "What have changed in latest WIn10 affecting VB6"?

    Thank you.

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    Good answer, makes a lot of sense, does explain why different things crash, "overwriting memory" will certainly do that.
    But the question was "what has changed in Win 10 latest 'updates' to cause these problems, when the exact same program is running nicely for 15 years?"
    What has changed in the Win-OS is not really the question (you don't plan to exchange
    Win10-System-Dlls with versions found in System32 of an old XP-system, will you? ) -
    the question is, how you will make your App work again (in the least amount of time)...
    wouldn't you agree?

    Stuff like that happens day in, day out (especially when some of your
    customers run their client-systems on Citrix or Windows-TerminalServer).

    It could be UserAccountRight-, Security- Share-related, Terminal-Session-specific,
    DataExecutionPrevention (DEP-related), VirusScanner-related...
    or some "wild setup" did overwrite critical System-Dlls/OCXes with older versions,
    or an App-compatibility-shim is not sitting right, or it is Manifest-related,
    or (as said) an indirect problem in another part of your code, the XML-COMponent
    is sensitive to.

    Only a few of these problems are fixable by adjusting OS-settings, or Security-settings -
    most of them have to (and can) be fixed in your Code (your Manifest, your Setup,
    your choice of Install- and DataPath-Locations).

    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    The other reason was,if I run the IDE, i could trace the program crashing ALWAYS on an XML line (OpenDoc, process DOC, close DOC etc.)
    So back to the original question, "what has changed in Win10 affecting XML in VB6?"
    If that is really the case (that you can reproduce the Crashes even in your IDE,
    with XML6 clearly being the culprit and not your XML-Input-files),
    then I'm wondering why you want to know (or blame) a certain OS-change?

    If it really is the XML6-COMponent, you cannot (as said) simply re-install
    an older dll-version on the system(s) in question.

    Instead you will either:
    - need to find possible faults in your XML-Input (did you use an XML-Validator to check that?)
    - have to find another way to work with XML6 (e.g. passing XML-Nodes around as clone instead ByRef)
    - change to an entirely different XML-Parsing-COMponent
    - change to a different way to parse your XML (e.g. using SAX instead of using the DOM)

    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    Our XML docs are relatively small, around 1-5K each.
    With such small Input-Files, even a handwritten Parser (which stores its results e.g.
    in a VB-Collection) could be a solution.

    But since you're able to reproduce the Error in the IDE, I'd suggest to post
    the XML-Data in question which was parsed whilst encountering the crash -
    and perhaps also your VB6-Code which did the parsing at that time.

    With MS-XML6 there's per default an async-read-mode in place (IIRC) when building the DOM -
    maybe you're running into such a problem (depending on, where the Data is read from) -
    that could be one reason, why things are happening in a kind of "erratic manner"
    but difficult to know without looking at concrete code...

    Olaf

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    ...The crashes are mostly in the same address (not always)...
    ...Needless to say, running in the IDE it never crash!, just the EXE does...
    Thanks for any insight.

    Hey DerWeise, You might like to have a look at my thread of a few days ago, I've encountered a strange (and to up to now, inexplicable) problem similar to yours. When working with xml objects it behaves differently in certain systems, something that should works equally either in IDE or EXE (when it crashes) modes, anyways, the improbable solution was changing my code, the way I create/call and treat the xml objects.

    Here is my thread, the solution is on post #14
    http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...-RUN-TIME-ONLY

    Hope it lights something to you.

    Best of luck mate.
    MBS
    MBS

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS View Post
    Hey DerWeise, You might like to have a look at my thread of a few days ago, I've encountered a strange (and to up to now, inexplicable) problem similar to yours. When working with xml objects it behaves differently in certain systems, something that should works equally either in IDE or EXE (when it crashes) modes, anyways, the improbable solution was changing my code, the way I create/call and treat the xml objects.

    Here is my thread, the solution is on post #14
    http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...-RUN-TIME-ONLY

    Hope it lights something to you.

    Best of luck mate.
    MBS
    Many thanks.
    Good productive "DO THAT" answer.
    I did EXACTLY THAT when I had such case exactly in my code in the IDE. I did what you did, and in the IDE it kept going (!), but now I think that there may be MORE such and similar cases, so I am going to look into them one by one!
    Thanks!

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    Good productive "DO THAT" answer.
    Umm, no - don't do that... (because it is precisely what may cause the crashes)

    Quote Originally Posted by DerWeise View Post
    I did EXACTLY THAT when I had such case exactly in my code in the IDE. I did what you did, and in the IDE it kept going (!), but now I think that there may be MORE such and similar cases, so I am going to look into them one by one!
    You mean, you both resort to:
    - using a Browser-Control (which differs in its behaviour across Win-OSes, depending on the Inet-Version and the MS-Inet-Settings)
    - to load a WebPage for scraping
    - then searching an (unpredictable) result inside that page for parameters
    - triggering another (unpredictable) response using these page-parameters
    - which then might contain an iFrame with (unpredictable content)
    - then feeding that unpredictable iFrame-content per iFrame.innerText (unchecked) into an XML-parser

    No wonder your App gets confused from time to time, answering with crashes.

    The correct way to do stuff like that, is to use the official WebAPI of such pages (like Flickr).

    Because then you will not need:
    - any Browser-Control
    - or any XML-Parser-COMponent (because most WebAPIs offer much leaner, better and faster parsable JSON-responses as well)

    You can find (VB6-implemented) JSON-parsers here in the CodeBank.

    As for the Flickr-API - here's a little Class which makes use of only the http-5.1 Object (LateBound, no reference in your project is needed):
    Code:
    Option Explicit 'ClassName: cFlickrAPI
    
    Public api_key As String, user_id As String
    
    Public Function people_getPhotos(Optional ByVal page As Long = 1, Optional extras As String = "url_o,url_k,url_h,url_b,url_c,url_z,url_m,url_t") As String
      Const method As String = "flickr.people.getPhotos"
      people_getPhotos = GetFlickrResponse(method, "page=" & page, "extras=" & extras)
    End Function
    
    Private Function GetFlickrResponse(method As String, ParamArray P()) As String
      Const BaseUrl As String = "https://api.flickr.com/services/rest/?format=json&"
      With CreateObject("WinHttp.WinHttpRequest.5.1")
          .Open "GET", BaseUrl & Join(P, "&") & "&method=" & method & "&api_key=" & api_key & "&user_id=" & user_id, False
          .Send
          If .Status = 200 Then GetFlickrResponse = .ResponseText: Exit Function
          GetFlickrResponse = "{""stat"":""fail"",""code"":" & .Status & ",""message"":""http-error -> " & .StatusText & """}"
      End With
    End Function
    The above Class is currently offering only a single Public Method: people_getPhotos()
    but additional methods of the Flickr-WebAPI should be implementable with ease (using the Private Helper-Function GetFlickrResponse).

    Here's an App I just wrote (using the above Class-Code):


    To make it work in your IDE you will need (beside a reference to vbRichClient5, to parse the JSON-responses conveniently):
    - a Form1 (with two normal ListBox-Controls, named lstPages and lstPhotos)
    - add the above Class into your Project
    - add a Private (empty) UserControl into your Project and name it ucRemoteImage
    - after creation and naming of the above UserControl, add it to your Form1 as the third Control, as ucRemoteImage1

    Now put the following Code into ucRemoteImage:
    Code:
    Option Explicit
    
    Public Sub RequestImage(ByVal URL As String)
      AsyncRead URL, vbAsyncTypePicture, URL, vbAsyncReadSynchronousDownload
    End Sub
    
    Private Sub UserControl_AsyncReadComplete(AsyncProp As AsyncProperty)
      Set Picture = AsyncProp.Value
    End Sub
    And the following Code into Form1:
    Code:
    Option Explicit
    
    Private FlickrAPI As New cFlickrAPI, JSON As cCollection
    
    Private Sub Form_Load()
        FlickrAPI.api_key = "7e597bf6f23cdc15ea64423f8a2f32cd" '<- Flickr-TestAPI-Key
        FlickrAPI.user_id = "126847939@N08"
        GetPage 1
    End Sub
    
    Private Sub GetPage(PageNr)  'request a page (getting the original- and with url_c a max 800x800 image-url)
      Set JSON = New_c.JSONDecodeToCollection(FlickrAPI.people_getPhotos(PageNr, "url_o,url_c"))
      Dim i As Long, Photo As cCollection
      If LCase(JSON("stat")) = "ok" Then
        If lstPages.ListCount = 0 Then
          For i = 1 To JSON("photos")("pages"): lstPages.AddItem "page " & i: Next
          lstPages.ListIndex = 0
        End If
        
        lstPhotos.Clear
        For Each Photo In JSON("photos")("photo"): lstPhotos.AddItem Photo("title"): Next
      Else
        Caption = JSON("stat") & " " & JSON("code") & " " & JSON("message")
      End If
    End Sub
    
    Private Sub lstPages_Click()
      GetPage lstPages.ListIndex + 1
    End Sub
    Private Sub lstPhotos_Click()
      ucRemoteImage1.RequestImage JSON("photos")("photo").ItemByIndex(lstPhotos.ListIndex)("url_c")
    End Sub
    That's it...

    HTH

    Olaf

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    Umm, no - don't do that... (because it is precisely what may cause the crashes)
    The correct way to do stuff like that, is to use the official WebAPI of such pages (like Flickr).
    or any XML-Parser-COMponent (because most WebAPIs offer much leaner, better and faster parsable JSON-responses as well)
    You can find (VB6-implemented) JSON-parsers here in the CodeBank.

    To make it work in your IDE you will need (beside a reference to vbRichClient5, to parse the JSON-responses conveniently):
    - a Form1 (with two normal ListBox-Controls, named lstPages and lstPhotos)
    - add the above Class into your Project
    - add a Private (empty) UserControl into your Project and name it ucRemoteImage
    - after creation and naming of the above UserControl, add it to your Form1 as the third Control, as ucRemoteImage1

    That's it...
    Hey Olaf, thank you very much for giving it a go, I was about to write a fantastic comment about your post, when I naively open my project references and searching for “vbRichClient5thinking “WOW where is this thing that I never seen before?” then I just realized that it is a DLL of yours, well needless to say…..

    To the point:

    Your solution should be a proper solution indeed, but:

    1 - We don’t know if DerWeise has access to any WEBApi for his app. So you can’t 100% say that he is applying the wrong methodology once he has been left with no other option.

    2 - In my particular case, your method would apply, IF:

    a) You show me, how to work with flickr’s API natively in VB6 (as you said its is the proper of doing that)
    a.1) When I developed this module (as part of a major Document Management System) I did a strenuous research into flickr’s API but ended up without any reference material for VB6, the only one reference I found was a Flickr’s group which seemed to be dead since 2008 (I think), apart from that I could not find anything to start from, and my last resource was using the browser-control for “scrapping”, as your said, the data I required.

    b) If At least you make your DLL source code available, you are saying in your website that your vbRichClient-Framework is intended to be an Open-Sourcing under LGPL but I do not see access to your code or any link to join a collaborative community. Unfortunately, my friend, I will not run a DLL from an unknown source nor distribute it to my clients without knowing what is going on within it. I think it’s very silly of you to think anyone here would do that.

    c) You pointed that there are other JSON-parsers in the codebank, Thanks for that! I will look at it, if I find any (OPEN CODE) then I will feedback you.

    Last point (Please note, I dont want to be rude, but pointing facts):
    The “DO THAT” I gave to DerWeise is a VB6 official native solution, but you come along and say: " “DON’T DO THAT, IT’S WRONG” do it, do that, easy ya? but don’t forget to install my DLLs? " Seriously man?
    Your "correct" way for to do that, is not using the native XML-Parser but using your private JSON-parser???

    I think this forum is made to share experiences and solutions, but you are just trying to spread your DLLs across the forums (by now, I did not see anybody backing-up you, telling that your DLLs are clean and safe), Thanks again my friend, but you will get no credits from me, unless as I said you open it.
    MBS

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS View Post
    Unfortunately, my friend, I will not run a DLL from an unknown source nor distribute it to my clients without knowing what is going on within it. I think it’s very silly of you to think anyone here would do that.
    No one is forcing you to use vbRichClient, but you are wrong to think that no one here would use it. There are many who have been using and benefiting from Olaf's library (and earlier versions) for over a decade. He's hardly an "unknown source" around these parts. vbRichClient5 is always the first reference I add to my new projects, and I doubt I'd create anything but a really small/test project without it.

    vbRichClient5 is available free if you want it, or you can continue doing it your way. In either case, I don't think there's any reason to be rude if you don't want to use it. When someone offers free advice using a free library (albeit closed source, but just as closed as Microsoft's library and VB6 itself), I think the proper response would be "Thanks for the help, but I prefer to do it my way for the following reasons" as opposed to getting snippy.

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    I second what jbpro just said.
    I use Olaf's stuff for 10 yrs without issues, and if it happens Olaf is promptly willing to help and solve it in the best possible way, even when not related to his library. Hard to beat by ANY open source library around.
    Olaf Schmidt is a skilled and trustful person and he has it's own reasons to not open his code just yet, and I'm sure it'll happen soon.
    Carlos

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS View Post
    Hey Olaf, thank you very much for giving it a go, I was about to write a fantastic comment about your post, when I naively open my project references and searching for “vbRichClient5thinking “WOW where is this thing that I never seen before?” then I just realized that it is a DLL of yours, well needless to say…..

    To the point:

    Your solution should be a proper solution indeed, but:

    1 - We don’t know if DerWeise has access to any WEBApi for his app. So you can’t 100% say that he is applying the wrong methodology once he has been left with no other option.

    2 - In my particular case, your method would apply, IF:

    a) You show me, how to work with flickr’s API natively in VB6 (as you said its is the proper of doing that)
    a.1) When I developed this module (as part of a major Document Management System) I did a strenuous research into flickr’s API but ended up without any reference material for VB6, the only one reference I found was a Flickr’s group which seemed to be dead since 2008 (I think), apart from that I could not find anything to start from, and my last resource was using the browser-control for “scrapping”, as your said, the data I required.

    b) If At least you make your DLL source code available, you are saying in your website that your vbRichClient-Framework is intended to be an Open-Sourcing under LGPL but I do not see access to your code or any link to join a collaborative community. Unfortunately, my friend, I will not run a DLL from an unknown source nor distribute it to my clients without knowing what is going on within it. I think it’s very silly of you to think anyone here would do that.

    c) You pointed that there are other JSON-parsers in the codebank, Thanks for that! I will look at it, if I find any (OPEN CODE) then I will feedback you.

    Last point (Please note, I dont want to be rude, but pointing facts):
    The “DO THAT” I gave to DerWeise is a VB6 official native solution, but you come along and say: " “DON’T DO THAT, IT’S WRONG” do it, do that, easy ya? but don’t forget to install my DLLs? " Seriously man?
    Your "correct" way for to do that, is not using the native XML-Parser but using your private JSON-parser???

    I think this forum is made to share experiences and solutions, but you are just trying to spread your DLLs across the forums (by now, I did not see anybody backing-up you, telling that your DLLs are clean and safe), Thanks again my friend, but you will get no credits from me, unless as I said you open it.
    Sorry for off-topic. In my opinion, vbRichClient is the future of VB6. It's precisely because of the great vbRichClient that many people have confidence to continue to use VB6 as their main development tool.

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    I loathe closed source as much as the rest, but I can't fault Olaf for keeping rc5 closed while he still actively maintains and develops it.
    The code he posts is typically very easy to convert to any alternative.

    the example Olaf posted contains very few lines of rc5 specific code (all related to JSON)

    also as others have pointed out, he's been an ancient fixture of the VB community (since usenet)
    Imagine what it would be like to set breakpoints in, or step through subclassing code;
    and then being able to hit stop/end/debug or continue, without crashing the IDE.

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  15. #15
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    I think his actually point was that web scraping has problems. It is often not permitted. It is also notoriously unreliable because web pages get changed over time and browser standards change as well. A lot of sites go to extra trouble to block web scraping because they get pirated too much.

    If no API is provided then there is a good chance you do not have permission to siphon off the data.


    In this particular case I suspect that the code is relying on an IE feature that was not supported on the default browser emulation (IE 8). There might be a registry hack in place on his machine for the VB6 IDE to select a later IE feature-set, so the code works there.

    But it is all speculation, the OP provided no useful information. This alone belies any claims of being "professional" in any way.

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    First of all, sorry DerWeise for hijacking your thread.

    @jpbro: I think you completely misread my post!
    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    No one is forcing you to use vbRichClient, I did not say anybody was, please, do not try to twist my words!
    but you are wrong to think that no one here would use it. Really? Point reputable forum members who did it please? or a well known application that uses it?
    He's hardly an "unknown source" around these parts. Yes, looks like he is a fantastic programmer I did not say anything to diminish his skills, I said his solution to mine and DerWeise issues is almost perfect. And yes, maybe I dont know many in "these parts" even knowing that I'm registered since 1999, but IMHO reputable members like LaVolpe and others, are trusted sources, LaVolpe tried to help me and DerWeise with this issue, but never mentioned vbRichClient5. If guys like LaVolpe tells me they are using vbRichClient5 and distributing it with their apps, then I will have trusted sources.

    I don't think there's any reason to be rude if you don't want to use it. Seriously? rude me? I even wrote: " (Please note, I dont want to be rude, but pointing facts):" in what point i was rude? Because I dont have the time to write flowers and kisses, Rude me?
    When someone offers free advice using a free library (albeit closed source, but just as closed as Microsoft's library and VB6 itself), I think the proper response would be "Thanks for the help, but I prefer to do it my way for the following reasons" as opposed to getting snippy. Again, seriously? Do you really want to put at same level of safety a trusted Official Microsoft product with someone's that you barely knows?

    And to finish, I DID THANK OLAF 3 (THREE) TIMES IN MY POST, So my friend, if I was you I would read my post again and then come with something else. Tell me facts not your opinion and do not try to insult me without any reason for to do so


    @Carlos Rocha: Thanks so much for you input my friend, This is the kind of feedback I was expecting, Thanks! I will take it in consideration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Rocha View Post
    I second what jbpro just said.
    I use Olaf's stuff for 10 yrs without issues, and if it happens Olaf is promptly willing to help and solve it in the best possible way, even when not related to his library. Hard to beat by ANY open source library around.
    Olaf Schmidt is a skilled and trustful person and he has it's own reasons to not open his code just yet, and I'm sure it'll happen soon.
    @dreammanor, Also thanks for you input my friend, I also take in codireation after knowing more about vbRichClient5.
    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Sorry for off-topic. In my opinion, vbRichClient is the future of VB6. It's precisely because of the great vbRichClient that many people have confidence to continue to use VB6 as their main development tool.
    Last Point:
    As I said, in my previous post, at that time I did not see anybody backing-up vbRichClient5 library, telling it is CLEAN and SAFE.

    Thanks you all, and again sorry DerWeise.
    MBS

  17. #17
    Fanatic Member Spooman's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    MBS

    Nice commentary

    Spoo

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS View Post
    1 - We don’t know if DerWeise has access to any WEBApi for his app. So you can’t 100% say that he is applying the wrong methodology once he has been left with no other option.
    Hmm, he was explicitely stating, that he found exactly the same code-snippet in his code...
    (the one where you pointed out, that retrieving "iFrame-Text" in two steps separately, was less disturbing for the IDE).

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS View Post
    2 - In my particular case, your method would apply, If
    a) You show me, how to work with flickr’s API natively in VB6 (as you said its is the proper of doing that...
    The (http-5.1-based) VB6-example-Class I've posted, did just that (and the Class-Method returns a JSON-String Type, it is not dependend on Classes from vbRichClient5)
    The rest (all other Methods and their parameters) are explained on the Flickr-API-Webpages...
    Since we are at it, the Test api_key for the Flickr-API which I've used in Form_Load only works for a day or so -
    but it can be easily retrieved on this test-page: https://www.flickr.com/services/api/response.rest.html ...
    ... by clicking on the Test-Link on the bottom of the page...

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS View Post
    Last point (Please note, I dont want to be rude, but pointing facts):
    The “DO THAT” I gave to DerWeise is a VB6 official native solution, ...
    Which version-wise run an extreme risk of interface-incompatibilities or changed (async) behaviours (both, the IE-Control as well as MS-XML6).
    The WinHttp 5.1 solution is far less risky in terms of http-requests (because nothing gets "parsed or interpreted" DOM-wise) -
    and it is also not violating any "fair-usage" terms (as the WebScraping-approach currently does).

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS View Post
    ...but you come along and say: " “DON’T DO THAT, IT’S WRONG” do it, do that, easy ya? but don’t forget to install my DLLs? " Seriously man?
    Your "correct" way for to do that, is not using the native XML-Parser but using your private JSON-parser???
    Again, the cFlickrAPI-Class I've posted, does not require any JSON-Parsing-Helper - it returns the JSON as a String.

    You are free to use any JSON-parser you like (and of course I was using my own JSON-Parser to flesh out the Demo
    to something "presentable", because I know its interface in and out, and because I know that it works correctly and fast).

    The returned JSON-string is not "deeply nested" - so even a simple "Instr/Split"-solution (along with a few Replace-calls)
    might be sufficient for the Flickr-API, in case you want to avoid a free, professionally written lib (which has no known bugs currently, JFYI).

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS View Post
    I think this forum is made to share experiences and solutions, but you are just trying to spread your DLLs across the forums ...
    Well, here I thought I did share my experience (along with a solution in form of the cFlickrAPI-Class) -
    and writing it took time, "my friend".

    As for "spreading my Dll" - yes of course, I'd like, when it would be incorporated into solutions more often by the VB-community -
    but I take care in my postings, to address its usage in conjunction with (mostly) quite difficult to solve problems -
    the solutions/examples I post (based on it) allow you in most cases, to get rid of a lot of code - and often one (or two) MS-COMponents as well...
    (and in my book, having less MS-dependencies is a good thing - because these can break with your next MS-Update,
    whereas the RichClient cannot, it is professionally written with full Interface-Backwards-Compatibility in mind and actively maintained).

    Olaf

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    @MBS - maybe we have different concepts of what constitutes rudeness, but simply saying "I don't want to be rude" doesn't absolve you. In fact "I don't want to be rude but..." as a precursor to another statement usually means the speaker intends to be just that.

    Saying it is "very silly" for offering a free library (and thereby implying that the individual making such a decision is very silly), or demanding that they open source it in order to receive "credits" from you are certainly things I would consider rude and self-entitled.

    Anyway this is getting way off topic, so I suggest we agree to disagree on this point instead of derailing the thread any further. IMHO vbRichClient5 is an option for those who want to use it, and for those who don't Olaf provided general directions on how to code the whole thing up yourself the proper way using the API. Go ahead and cobble together other people's source, or write your own. Webscraping is probably against the Flickr TOS. I didn't read the whole TOS but did find this in the Flickr Developer Guide

    Screen scraping flickr.com isn't good. The API is the scalable way to get this data, and we also routinely block screen scrapers.
    Last edited by jpbro; Sep 25th, 2017 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Grammar edited

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    One thing often not considered is that when a site "blocks" for abuse such as web scraping they tend to block entire subnets. So you might cut off everyone within a company, or even several city blocks worth of cable/DSL homes.

  21. #21
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    I feel Olaf's experience is top-notch. I've seen his posts on multiple forums, dating way back, and would be extremely shocked if his code wasn't "safe". The guy knows his stuff. Don't agree that his library is the "future" of VB as stated by one satisfied customer. Above said, the primary reason I don't use his library is because it is a custom "homemade" library where no guarantees that it will be continually updated in the future. At least, with source code, even if it weren't updated down the road, then others can tweak what may break due to new Windows 'features'.

    Personally, I'd love to see the source. I think it would be a tremendous opportunity to learn new ways of doing things we may already know, to learn things we don't know, and to help provide enhancements or improve efficiency/accuracy. Simply digesting the source is interesting to me. Others aren't interested and don't care; they just want a good tool to make coding easier.
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  22. #22
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    @jpbro - Once again you are twisting words, filosofy"ing", conjecturing and not giving any facts.
    You are the first to shout, and yet did not say any word to tell me that vbRichClient5 is CLEAN and SAFE to use.
    The only thing you said that I must agree: "let's agree to disagree"
    Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    ...
    MBS

  23. #23
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    The scraping issue

    Jezz guys, how far you go? You dont know what you are talking about! I'm using the Flickr API Garden, I have my own Development Flickr APIKey, I spoke with Flickrs support team, Everything I do, I'm doing under Flickr's T&C, for years now... c'mom guys... if you cannot proof your point do not change the subject!
    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    Screen scraping flickr.com isn't good. The API is the scalable way to get this data, and we also routinely block screen scrapers.
    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    a site "blocks" for abuse such as web scraping they tend to block entire subnets.
    Olaf did not mention anything about this issues of scraping but its reliability and proper way of doing such a thing!
    Thanks again Olaf!
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    ...
    MBS

  24. #24
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    @MBS I'm not shouting, and I don't see how I twisted your words when you said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS
    Unfortunately, my friend, I will not run a DLL from an unknown source nor distribute it to my clients without knowing what is going on within it. I think it’s very silly of you to think anyone here would do that.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS
    but you come along and say: " “DON’T DO THAT, IT’S WRONG” do it, do that, easy ya? but don’t forget to install my DLLs? " Seriously man?
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by MBS
    I did not see anybody backing-up you, telling that your DLLs are clean and safe), Thanks again my friend, but you will get no credits from me, unless as I said you open it.
    In my opinion, you're demanding someone do additional free labour by open sourcing their software for your benefit while insulting them. So yeah, I think you came off as rude and entitled.

    Regarding your claim that I did "not say any word to tell me that vbRichClient5 is CLEAN and SAFE to use", you're right that I did not use those specific words (but I can if it makes a difference). I did say that many users here have been using vbRichClient5 (and earlier versions) for a decade or more which kind of implies that I and they believe it to be clean and safe. Why else would we be using it?

    Since my post, vbRichClient5 users like Carlos and dreammanor have come forward to vouch for the library, and even non-users like Dexwerx and LaVolpe have come forward to say they trust Olaf and his work is top-notch (although they wish it were open source too). If that's not enough for you, then by all means roll your own solution, or cobble something together from other posts. Maybe you could even share it back with the community here as open source in the Code Bank?

    Lastly, regarding the "Scraping" issue, I don't know if the Flickr APP Garden license with API key allows for scaping or not, I only know what I read directly on the Flickr site which stated (as posted earlier): Screen scraping flickr.com isn't good. The API is the scalable way to get this data, and we also routinely block screen scrapers.. I also don't know why it matters that Olaf didn't mention this (though he did imply it by saying: "The correct way to do stuff like that, is to use the official WebAPI of such pages (like Flickr).".

    Anyway, that's my last word, feel free to have yours if you'd like and then let's move on.

  25. #25
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Hey Olaf,

    First of all, one guy is saying that I was rude towards you, but seems to me that you are a resolved guy and did not feel that way, you are having an discussion about a topic and keeping it straight like so.
    But if for any reason you felt any rudeness from my side, I humbly, deeply apologize, that was not my intention.

    Mate, as many said you are "The Man" you know your stuff, and I CANNOT DISAGREE with you in anyway, that was never the point!!

    The only thing I have to note:
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    Hmm, he was explicitely stating, that he found exactly the same code-snippet in his code...
    (the one where you pointed out, that retrieving "iFrame-Text" in two steps separately, was less disturbing for the IDE).
    STILL, That do not means he's using: Flickr, x, y, etc website; we dont know the source of his XML document, so, yes he may have the same code-snippet in his code but we dont know if he has access to any WEBAPI from wherever he is getting his XML Source, Do you agree?
    And, The point that still, not even you told me that your library is CLEAN and SAFE which was/still is my concern, you are telling me about its features, capabilities and stuff, but not one single word proofing it's SAFE to use.

    I only have to thank you again for your time and interest to help, my friend! (I never used "my friend" within double-quotes with second means)
    And again, please accept my deepest apologies.

    MBS.
    Last edited by MBS; Sep 26th, 2017 at 07:44 AM. Reason: people are saying = one guy is saying
    MBS

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Are you still on this? jezz man! I will not even read your post. I dont care about your opinion!
    I'm rude? so, there you go!
    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    ...
    Last edited by MBS; Sep 26th, 2017 at 07:42 AM.
    MBS

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Thanks LaVolpe, for your view on it, always impartial and straight to the points, from which we can work with. I really don't have to write much. THANKS SO MUCH!
    Quote Originally Posted by LaVolpe View Post
    I feel Olaf's experience is top-notch. I've seen his posts on multiple forums, dating way back, and would be extremely shocked if his code wasn't "safe". The guy knows his stuff. Don't agree that his library is the "future" of VB as stated by one satisfied customer. Above said, the primary reason I don't use his library is because it is a custom "homemade" library where no guarantees that it will be continually updated in the future. At least, with source code, even if it weren't updated down the road, then others can tweak what may break due to new Windows 'features'.

    Personally, I'd love to see the source. I think it would be a tremendous opportunity to learn new ways of doing things we may already know, to learn things we don't know, and to help provide enhancements or improve efficiency/accuracy. Simply digesting the source is interesting to me. Others aren't interested and don't care; they just want a good tool to make coding easier.
    MBS

  28. #28
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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    This has been an interesting topic, so I'm loathe to simply remove all the off-topic posts, but it's getting to the point where such would need to be done. It's unclear whether the OP has left, or is still around, but please get back to the subject.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    Sorry for hijacking the thread. I'd like to say the last time.

    @MBS, why not take some time to look at all of Olaf's posts in the VBForums? I'm sure you can learn a lot from him, even if you don't want to use vbRichClient Lib.

    3 years ago, I wanted to completely abandon VB6, although I had used it for many years. It would be an extremely painful decision. After I browsed all of Olaf's posts in the vbforums, I decided to continue using VB6 as my main development tool. It was not only vbRichClient but also Olaf himself that gave me great confidence.

    Perhaps my post in the following thread could give you a deeper understanding of vbRichClient:
    http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...t=#post5189823

    Of course, vbforums is the most popular vb6 forums not only because of Olaf and his vbRichClient, but also because of dilettante, LaVolpe, jpbro, Tanner_H, Krool, DEXWERX and many other enthusiastic VB technical experts.

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    I'm disappointed we haven't stayed on topic, which by rights is a suspected problem with MSXML v. 6 but we never got enough information to investigate.

    I normally use version 3 because of its portability and the fact that I rarely need anything added since then. In most cases you can simply swap versions, and maybe you'll have to change the values of a couple of global properties and change from the version-independent interfaces to version-specific declarations.

    I did this with several programs and saw no issues at all with MSXML v. 6, but I think we already determined the problem was elsewhere (within IE, not MSXML).


    All of the rest posted above may be relevant but doesn't answer either the supposed problem or the likely problem (the Internet Explorer FEATURE_BROWSER_EMULATION registry keys for each program).

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    Re: VB6 with MSXML6 on Win 10 problems and crashes

    I think OP has already resolved the problem:

    http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...=1#post5217689

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