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Thread: what are the essential stages in project management ?

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    Post what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Hi friends, i am a developer & i have been searching for essential stages in project management. Hoping for great support.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    What size of a project?

    Personally, I don't work as part of a team, and project management for me tends to be quite informal. Basically, somebody comes up with an idea which is usually vague. They then convince my boss that it has to be done, so he assigns me to do it. I then figure out the details and write the program, which is the point where the original person figures out what they REALLY wanted, and we go on from there.
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    This sounds a lot like a really good college essay topic.

    There's no one template. There's at least two major schools of thought for software development, at least four patterns, and I remember reading about plenty of models in my Software Engineering class. All of it's kind of nice from an ideal standpoint. But they vary wildly. For example: a waterfall model goes through different phases in different orders than an Agile model.

    If I had to be at least a little snarky, I'd call the phases for a generalized software development model:
    • Optimism
    • Budgeting
    • Implementation
    • Reality
    • Denial
    • Anger
    • Bargaining
    • Depression
    • Acceptance
    This answer is wrong. You should be using TableAdapter and Dictionaries instead.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitten Spynne View Post
    • Optimism
    • Budgeting
    • Implementation
    • Reality
    • Denial
    • Anger
    • Bargaining
    • Depression
    • Acceptance
    Lol!

    Sadly - this is basically what really happens...

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    It might not hurt to add "Remorse" to the end.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    That's just a funny way to spell "maintenance".

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    ex-Administrator brad jones's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    There are professional project management groups. They define the stages (or groups) of project management as:


    • Initiating
    • Planning
    • Executing
    • Monitoring and Controlling
    • Closing


    There are then other areas that impact things as you break these processes into finer detail.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    I'd agree with it. There's really a whole field of computer science devoted to this question, so the only real options are either short generalizations or paper-length descriptions of one individual viewpoint.

    I get the feeling the essay-length description is what OP's assignment wanted. I hated the classes on this topic, personally, particularly when we were discussing empirical models.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Thanx everyone for valuable suggestions and great support

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    What size of a project?

    Personally, I don't work as part of a team, and project management for me tends to be quite informal. Basically, somebody comes up with an idea which is usually vague. They then convince my boss that it has to be done, so he assigns me to do it. I then figure out the details and write the program, which is the point where the original person figures out what they REALLY wanted, and we go on from there.

    Yep, you described pretty much how it goes in my little world.

    @OP - There are a lot of frameworks in project management. As a general all-purpose deal, I use the PLAN-DO-CHECK-ACT method, mainly.

    Plan - Outline the objective
    Do - Execute to complete the objective
    Check - Review the actual results verses what the results should have been
    Act - Did we achieve? If not, iterate again.

    Everyone has their own way they manage a project, with loosely defined stages that generally apply against some type of project management framework (either intentionally or unintentionally). I say loosely, because even our LEAN manufacturing approaches are all customized and not really standard.

    Anyways, I actually had an interview a few weeks back for a project management role in a large corporate company that didn't go so well. I felt that the hiring manager's views on project management were more about using big words, buzz-words and jargon than actually establishing how you bridge the gap between current state and future state to delivery results.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Thanks jayinthe813 nicely explained

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    There are books written on studies about project management when it comes to software projects. The bottom line is this: If you have the right people in the right places, then ANY process will work. If you have the wrong people in those places, then no process will work.

    The second part of those studies can be summed up as: Nobody knows how to identify "the right person" for any particular role except after the fact.

    Some people say that you have to find people who have failed at things, so they have experience with failures. Others say they look for people who have gotten things done in the past. The bottom line is that everybody is guessing. If you get it right, it's great. Most people don't get it right.
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitten Spynne View Post
    There's really a whole field of computer science devoted to this question...
    Actually there isn't. This is not a Computer Science topic at all.

    It falls into the realms of "Business Data Processing" or perhaps "Software Engineering" if you will but has nothing whatsoever to do with Computer Science. Not that it isn't worthy of requiring in a Computer Science degree curriculum just like mathmatics or even "how to interview" or other useful general information.

    But it is not part of the "science."

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    There are books written on studies about project management when it comes to software projects. The bottom line is this: If you have the right people in the right places, then ANY process will work. If you have the wrong people in those places, then no process will work.

    The second part of those studies can be summed up as: Nobody knows how to identify "the right person" for any particular role except after the fact.
    The entire pseudo-science of "Software Engineering" is really all about trying to make software development work using staff comprised heavily of random off-the-shelf people with some minimal background and experience at it.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    sh,
    I then figure out the details and write the program, which is the point where the original person figures out what they REALLY wanted, and we go on from there.
    That brings back lots of memories, not good ones.

    I'd have to say that through the years, learning how to drag a clear and true product definition out of a client was one of the most difficult but valuable skills of developing custom software. I truly enjoy programming but I never enjoyed creating a square program and having to make it fit a round hole because my client assumed it would do this and that. I've ended up with some ugly code because I refused to do a complete rewrite.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    I have an advantage, in my case, because I'm a fish biologist writing programs to manage fish data. If the user says they want X, I generally know whether or not they are right. This means that we get to where they want to be a whole lot faster. On most of these projects, if I didn't have such intimate understanding of the problem being solved, I would find it incredibly frustrating due to the changing requirements. In this case, I can often write it the way it needs to be before the person asking has figured out that it needs to be that way. That can cause problems, too, as you have to convince them why it should be done a certain way, but in that I have the advantage that I speak the same language.
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Actually there isn't. This is not a Computer Science topic at all.

    It falls into the realms of "Business Data Processing" or perhaps "Software Engineering" if you will but has nothing whatsoever to do with Computer Science. Not that it isn't worthy of requiring in a Computer Science degree curriculum just like mathmatics or even "how to interview" or other useful general information.

    But it is not part of the "science."
    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The entire pseudo-science of "Software Engineering" is really all about trying to make software development work using staff comprised heavily of random off-the-shelf people with some minimal background and experience at it.
    I had a really knee-jerk response to this at first. But then I thought about it, since my lunch came late. I think what I want to say is there are two things to which the term "software engineering" is applied. I think you don't like either of them, but it's important to distinguish which is which:
    • One 'Software Engineering' is a fancy term for 'project management'. It concerns itself with how to go about writing software as if people are an off-the-shelf, zero-variance, replacable resource.
    • One 'Software Engineering' concerns itself with the problems that arise from large codebases and seeks development practices that attempt to manage the complexity.

    Neither of those things is Computer Science, you're right. Neither thing concerns itself with proving algorithms solve problems, or analysis of algorithm performance, etc.

    I really don't like the former. I don't think there's much to it, and I'm not impressed that it can point to a large-scale, very-well-funded project employing smart people who were excited to work on it as a success. It tends to ignore the wasteland of failed project susing the same model with small budgets and inexperienced, unmotivated developers.

    The latter... is more 'art'. It's focused less on project-scale but has layers. It has opinions about method-scale and class-scale and system-scale and so on. I think the higher you go up that tree, the more important the context of the project becomes. It's always a good idea to follow "name your variables words that mean something". But it's foolish to adopt a dogma like, "I never need to do a formal requirements gathering phase, I can iterate!"

    The more I think about it, the more every process looks like a variant of waterfall. It just got labeled "bad" to help promote newer processes, so things like Agile go to great lengths to hide it.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitten Spynne View Post
    The more I think about it, the more every process looks like a variant of waterfall. It just got labeled "bad" to help promote newer processes, so things like Agile go to great lengths to hide it.
    There isn't and never was any "waterfall." That was a pejoritive term made up very late in the day to help market "agile" and related medicine shows.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    sh,

    That brings back lots of memories, not good ones.

    I'd have to say that through the years, learning how to drag a clear and true product definition out of a client was one of the most difficult but valuable skills of developing custom software. I truly enjoy programming but I never enjoyed creating a square program and having to make it fit a round hole because my client assumed it would do this and that. I've ended up with some ugly code because I refused to do a complete rewrite.
    LOL seriously. I remember experiencing this at the beginning of my current job and it was AGONIZING because I had no product knowledge and would need to consistently rewrite. Once I was able to learn everything about the business and products (becoming a subject matter expert I suppose) I instantly knew what was needed.. The main concern then became time.

    My experience pretty much resonates with SH.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    LOL seriously. I remember experiencing this at the beginning of my current job and it was AGONIZING because I had no product knowledge and would need to consistently rewrite. Once I was able to learn everything about the business and products (becoming a subject matter expert I suppose) I instantly knew what was needed.. The main concern then became time.

    My experience pretty much resonates with SH.
    Luckily I've had a lot of repeat clients, some I've been doing business with over 25 year. That really helps but now I'm trying to retire but they have no desire to retire my applications. So I still get maintenance calls. I really don't mind though, as I said before, I enjoy programming.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    There isn't and never was any "waterfall." That was a pejoritive term made up very late in the day to help market "agile" and related medicine shows
    I disagree with that. When I did my degree the 7 stage waterfall methodology was taught as THE de-facto correct approach to software development and my lecturers weren't pejorative about it at all. Agile existed at the time but, at that time, it was still viewed as a few eccentrics that nobody was taking particularly seriously.

    Agile certainly targeted the waterfall approach and held itself up (rightly or wrongly - often wrongly) as the solution to all of the waterfall's failing but it was only able to do that because the waterfall and it's failings were already well known.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Jul 7th, 2016 at 03:11 AM.
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    I don't like bickering about what things are called. I think it's more valuable to talk about what they are.

    Some processes are rigid. They expect you to generate requirements, a design, and an implementation in that order with no deviation. Imagining new requirements at any point mid-design can be catastrophic to these processes. It feels foolish to adopt this methodology with zero escape hatches, and I doubt anyone with a "waterfall" process is so devoted to it they'd walk off a cliff.

    Even when I look at the most flexible of Agile processes, I see something more like "a thousand waterfalls". You don't pick features by throwing darts. You question users. You watch their processes. You deduce things they aren't saying. You propose features based on how they fill user needs. You produce a preliminary design and estimate effort based on it. You act on that design and implement it. You test the implementation to prove it meets the initial requirements. Then, you place it before the user to see what they think. If they like it, you're done. If they don't, you have more requirements to gather.

    Oh snap. Requirements -> Design -> Implementation -> Acceptance. That's a waterfall. But it's being applied at a very small scale, instead of a very large scale, with the hope that if the individual cycles are very small, "having the wrong requirements" will be less disruptive as design costs are deferred to the last possible moment. The ideal case is "We've changed the requirements for a feature we haven't spent time designing yet." That's less likely to happen if your project's only step 2 is "produce a detailed design for every requirement".

    I feel like, as with many things, this discussion is too polarized. 'Waterfall' is still practically the only design methodology. Applying it up-front with zero deviation forms one end of a spectrum. 'Agile' is an application of very small-scale waterfalls. Applying it to the extent that no requirements are gathered before working forms the other end of a spectrum. Both ends of the spectrum really stink, and are unlikely to work on any project without some very, very narrow context applied.

    Real people live somewhere between the two. It's OK for your process to lean towards "everything up-front", if you're delivering on-time and within-budget. It's OK for your process to lean towards "nothing up-front", if your users are excited about the product you're building. The process that works for one team and one project may not work for a different project, even with the same team.

    The only error in process is dogmatic adherence to a particular process.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    I think it gets into trouble because for decades we had people who tried to "package" and to "sell" these methodologies (as books, consulting gigs, training, etc.).

    The false promise was that by using them you can turn out quality work with a good chance of staying on schedule using workers with little experience or even aptitude. This is exactly what was in turn used to sell outsourcing and offshoring: use cheap dumb bodies and just apply the magic of methodologies. As a bonus the boss' relatives who had no chance of cutting it as a developer could always be put into higher-paying roles as "project managers" doing basically secretarial work while strutting and holding meetings and never getting their hands dirty.

    Of course the entire thing is a fiction. Projects get into trouble because they are poor prospects for automation in the first place, estimates and deadlines were way off, low quality staffing was used, one or more PMs spent too much time playing Captain Bligh/Nurse Ratched and demoralized everyone... or a combination of those factors.

    See the now classic confession in Software Engineering: An Idea Whose Time Has Come and Gone? (pdf)

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitten Spynne View Post
    Even when I look at the most flexible of Agile processes, I see something more like "a thousand waterfalls". You don't pick features by throwing darts. You question users. You watch their processes. You deduce things they aren't saying. You propose features based on how they fill user needs. You produce a preliminary design and estimate effort based on it. You act on that design and implement it. You test the implementation to prove it meets the initial requirements. Then, you place it before the user to see what they think. If they like it, you're done. If they don't, you have more requirements to gather.
    I think that may be the first time I've ever been described as agile...at anything...albeit indirectly, in this case.
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I think it gets into trouble because for decades we had people who tried to "package" and to "sell" these methodologies (as books, consulting gigs, training, etc.).

    The false promise was that by using them you can turn out quality work with a good chance of staying on schedule using workers with little experience or even aptitude. This is exactly what was in turn used to sell outsourcing and offshoring: use cheap dumb bodies and just apply the magic of methodologies. As a bonus the boss' relatives who had no chance of cutting it as a developer could always be put into higher-paying roles as "project managers" doing basically secretarial work while strutting and holding meetings and never getting their hands dirty.

    Of course the entire thing is a fiction. Projects get into trouble because they are poor prospects for automation in the first place, estimates and deadlines were way off, low quality staffing was used, one or more PMs spent too much time playing Captain Bligh/Nurse Ratched and demoralized everyone... or a combination of those factors.

    See the now classic confession in Software Engineering: An Idea Whose Time Has Come and Gone? (pdf)
    I totally agree with all of that, except for the Captain Bligh reference. That guy was actually a pretty awesome sailor who was got a bad reputation largely through the media.

    Any book that tells me, "do it this way and all will be well." Is one that I stop reading. The one that I read through was by a guy who was reporting on his research into the subject, and the conclusion was as I mentioned earlier: With the wrong people, no methodology will work; with the right people, any methodology will work. And also: There is no formula for finding the right people that appears to be any better than any other.
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I totally agree with all of that, except for the Captain Bligh reference. That guy was actually a pretty awesome sailor who was got a bad reputation largely through the media.
    Well I admit I was invoking his popularized image and not referring to the real person.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Yes, I agree with #23.

    Anyone who promotes one book and one methodology and claims it will lead to you being on-budget and on-time with any random group of developers is selling snake oil.

    I'd have more faith in someone that says, "Let me observe your process and team for 2 weeks, then I will propose some changes that will make you more efficient, and identify training that might help your developers." But that isn't as exciting of a sales pitch. Even that's not very trustworthy. A prior employer once paid for some MS consultants to do that. We'd just purchased TFS, and were having trouble getting it and our process to meet somewhere in the middle. They had meetings and shadowing sessions for weeks, and I don't want to know how much that cost us. Their final assessment was, "Well... hm... here's a paper about Microsoft's process, if you follow it, TFS works great!"

    My dad's a colorful individual, and once told me a story about such "experts". He asked me to think about the word "expert", and break it into two words. "Ex" is someone who used to be something else. "Spurt" is what's left over when you're not quite done in the bathroom. So he reckoned most people who sold themselves as an "expert" were "ex-spurts".

    I could've learned a lot from him, if I'd only listened.

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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Of course the entire thing is a fiction
    Now this I agree with 100%.

    I like Shaggy's quote but think it's slightly wrong. I think you can take a talented group, force a really bad methodology on them and get a failed project as a result. In fact, I've seen it done. More than once. Front heavy methodologies tend to fail in this regard because they're inherently inflexible and, when they go wrong, they produce a result that's just plain wrong - but they deliver it on time. Back heavy (e.g. agile) approaches tend to produce the correct result - just late and over budget. Which one of those is better or worse really depends on the project.

    I think methodologies are useful. They provide a "template" for managing a project which can help everyone pull in the same direction, speak the same language and so on. What they do not do, however, is fill out the template for you. Someone's still got to be identifying the requirements, prioritising the requirements, negotiating change (which, of course, means doing the impact analysis), monitoring progress and so on. Project Management methodologies assist with project management, they don't replace it.

    I tend to be distrustful of anyone who says a given methodology is always right. A full on, front heavy, uni-directional waterfall is entirely appropriate if you're starting out with a fully understood problem space/set of requirements and you're project is time and function critical. An example would be a systems migration for a safety critical function (e.g. an Air Traffic Control system). The ability to set rigid milestones, testing requirements etc. right up front is desirable and, because the domain is already fully understood and unchanging, you don't need the flexibility that an iterative approach provides. On the other hand, you'd be bloody stupid to adopt that methodology to a project for, say, a marketing department in a busy firm that's always introducing new products and new ways of working - they need flexibility.
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Now this I agree with 100%.

    I like Shaggy's quote but think it's slightly wrong. I think you can take a talented group, force a really bad methodology on them and get a failed project as a result. In fact, I've seen it done. More than once. Front heavy methodologies tend to fail in this regard because they're inherently inflexible and, when they go wrong, they produce a result that's just plain wrong - but they deliver it on time. Back heavy (e.g. agile) approaches tend to produce the correct result - just late and over budget. Which one of those is better or worse really depends on the project.

    I think methodologies are useful. They provide a "template" for managing a project which can help everyone pull in the same direction, speak the same language and so on. What they do not do, however, is fill out the template for you. Someone's still got to be identifying the requirements, prioritising the requirements, negotiating change (which, of course, means doing the impact analysis), monitoring progress and so on. Project Management methodologies assist with project management, they don't replace it.

    I tend to be distrustful of anyone who says a given methodology is always right. A full on, front heavy, uni-directional waterfall is entirely appropriate if you're starting out with a fully understood problem space/set of requirements and you're project is time and function critical. An example would be a systems migration for a safety critical function (e.g. an Air Traffic Control system). The ability to set rigid milestones, testing requirements etc. right up front is desirable and, because the domain is already fully understood and unchanging, you don't need the flexibility that an iterative approach provides. On the other hand, you'd be bloody stupid to adopt that methodology to a project for, say, a marketing department in a busy firm that's always introducing new products and new ways of working - they need flexibility.
    Amen!

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I think you can take a talented group, force a really bad methodology on them and get a failed project as a result. In fact, I've seen it done. More than once.
    I LIVED it... bleh... I hope that never happens again...

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I tend to be distrustful of anyone who says a given methodology is always right.
    And that's what I think is part of the problem. Over the years, I've seen several attempts at standardizing our methodology template for projects... they inevitably fail... the degree to which they fail varies, but it usually is a result of how we as developers have set up our methodology vs how PMs work... we've tried to share the methodology with sales & the PM group... it usually results in glazed over looks... they're not technical people. They continuously underestimate the level of work that's involved in what we do, and there is more to it than simple requirements and development... there's also QA involved (it's amazing how many times QA gets overlooked). It's not because they aren't aware of the methodology we use... we share it with all of the groups in the company... it's that they don't care... And it starts with sales... they want to get the sale, so they downplay issues, trim the costs and get the client to sign on the line... then the PM is all about hitting the deadline, so they will trim as much "Fat" as they can so that they deadline is "doable" ... at which point the development (incl QA) group gets involved and what we're left with is no time and no money and impossible requirements (because the BAs choose to ignore what's possible and what isn't)

    Here's an example of that - I worked on a project where by the time I came on board, the project plan had already been created. No requirements had been gathered, and the gap analysis was written by someone who had just exited the company. I was supposed to be on the project only 10% of the time - 4 hours a week essentially. We were going to be using off-shore resources for the entire thing. When I looked at the project plan, there were red flags on it all around... the pattern followed this: After a period of a couple weeks of requirements gathering, they would be delivered to the client on a Wed, signed and returned to us by Fri... Monday was sprint planning and Development starts on Tues. Some 6-8 weeks later we deliver to the client. Repeat again starting with gathering more requirements...

    Two things were missing right off the bat: Design and QA ... but even then, the other thing that was a red flag was that the development cycles were in lockstep with the design configuration cycles (the process by which we determine the proper system configuration and how a customization will fit into it)...

    Of course when I bring this up, I was told, "this is how we're doing it" and that my "design" time was the sprint planning. Apparently the plan was for me to take the requirements from the BA (which is a story on its own), rubber stamp the document, and toss it over the wall to the off shore group... they were going to do the development. How'd that work out? It lasted all of 2 weeks until we started getting design, estimates and code back from them... and none of it was right or accurate. So I became more hands-on, allocated 100% to the project and tried to push it through the methodology we had at the time - which was in the process of changing, as were all of the tools we use for it - in fact we were the guinea pig project for those tools - all of which were contributing factors to what I consider a total failure. It was a project that not only was it setup for failure, it was planned.

    The good news is that the project opened up a lot of eyes and exposed some very real problems in the organization. Not just with methodologies and planning, but also with personnel. In the last year, 6 months really, there have been a lot of changes that have happened. Some for the better - most notably getting the backing of management when we push back on things. Gone is the era of doing what ever it takes to keep the customer happy.

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  30. #30
    New Member ctinformatics's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    AGILE methodology is a practice that promotes continuous iteration of development and testing throughout the software development life-cycle of the project.
    Instigation
    Proposal
    Blueprint & UI/UX Design
    Development, Testing, Deployment
    Support & Maintenance

  31. #31
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    what are the essential stages in project management ?
    There's really only 1 stage - appoint a project manager to manage the project and oversee the process. Everything else is a methodology (of some description and varying degrees of formality) used to deliver that which was originally conceived.
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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  32. #32
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    AGILE METHODOLOGY

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  33. #33
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    This is a bit of a gravedig, but I just wanted to see some rebuttals on Agile.

    When I first saw Agile, I thought it was a great idea. I still think it's a great idea as long as you don't take it too seriously. The problems arise when you try to turn it into a formula, because that formula always ends up about process over product, as far as I can see. People want a recipe they can follow that will result in great software, Agile has become a recipe. No good cook follows a recipe perfectly.
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  34. #34
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    The problem with all of these patent medicine "methodologies" is that they exist to sell books and training. They cannot make silk purses out of sows' ears. Hire good developers and managers to get good results.

  35. #35
    ex-Administrator brad jones's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    The Agile question (and any agile specific responses) should be moved to a new thread with a link from this one.....
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  36. #36
    ex-Administrator brad jones's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The problem with all of these patent medicine "methodologies" is that they exist to sell books and training.
    Disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Hire good developers and managers to get good results.
    One of the things that makes a good project manager is the ability to help guide and keep the people and pieces on track by using the methodology principles. Methodologies are like coding guidelines and best practices. They should operate as a framework for helping align people towards a common goal. Without such a framework (or methodology), then you'd be counting on luck to herd the varies people and pieces to a solution.

    Methodologies, however, are like any tool or process. They should be used to keep the work moving to a solution. When the tool, process, or methodology becomes the work, then you are no longer focused on the solution. To Shaggy's question about Agile - it is an attempt to keep more of the focus on the work rather than the process. Companies that try to make stringent use of agile practices fail to understand the practice they are trying to use.

  37. #37
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Agile works because it takes into account two areas that are inevitable, imo.

    Feature-creep and misunderstood/misstated requirements.

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  38. #38
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post

    Feature-creep
    He's been lurking around my office, lately.

    This whole recent discussion is a bit of a gravedig, anyways. I expect it will return from whence it came in short order.
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  39. #39
    ex-Administrator brad jones's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    This whole recent discussion is a bit of a gravedig, anyways. I expect it will return from whence it came in short order.
    Speaking of feature/scope creep.... I'll derail the topic further....

    Yep - it was the age of the skeleton that caught the attention of several of us responding. Some topics, however, can be resurrected once a year so as to reiterate the previous discussions.... In the mean time, we've gotten our forum handles associated to the topic of project management on a leading forum, so all of us look good. Now we just need to backlink our signatures and we'll be set.

  40. #40
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: what are the essential stages in project management ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The problem with all of these patent medicine "methodologies" is that they exist to sell books and training. They cannot make silk purses out of sows' ears. Hire good developers and managers to get good results.
    They exist to protect the guilty when the project fails so that everyone involved can state that they followed the methodology so it's not their fault.
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

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