Terrible Code

[dclamp]

I spend more time in chit chat than any other forum on this site. But when people post in the PHP forum I will try to help them.

I am not too sure if its specific to PHP or it happens in the other languages too. I review peoples code that they post and its just so terrible and so far from being useful or working that I tend to just leave without even helping them.

How do you guys deal when you see just terrible terrible code posted that is way beyond help. Someone posted a login or registration thread in PHP forum and there was so much wrong that I just couldn't answer their question because it wouldn't fix the problem.

I feel that with PHP its harder for people to learn when they mess up and where they mess up because unlike VB it doesn't give exact in-line runtime errors.

I am ranting and I dont even know if this makes sense. Bye now.

[Steve R Jones]

Helping people on forums is very similar to my full time support job. But the really cool difference is I can pick and choose who I help

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, that's about it. Really horrible code generally means a beginner, so there is lots of help you can provide. The problem is in doing so without being patronizing, which is doubly hard because this is a written medium...and the internet...where we see the worst in people. Still, sometimes there's just no oxygen getting to the brain, but you usually know that within a post or two.

[homer13j]

Really horrible code generally means a beginner

If you have ever spent time at the daily doubleyou tee eff .com (this forum won't even allow links with those three letters)

You would see that's not always the case.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Some people never get out of first gear.

[SJWhiteley]

It's not so bad when the professed beginner makes a solid attempt to better themselves, after having given it an honest try, first. But it's those that just want the 'codez 2 werkz' [damn, the inline-corrector corrected both of those words!), or the 'who cares if it works', that really give you the hopeless feeling.

[techgnome]

depends... if it's truly bad, I'll jsut walk away... hope that someone with a better constitution can help them. And yet there are times I simply cannot pass it up, and will spend a little time re-writting it in the hopes they can learn from it.

Sometimes it's because they've cobbled stuff togeher off the interwebs (At least they are searching) and other times it's because they took what was a simple example from class and tried to apply it to another case whre the code had no place being.

-tg

[dclamp]

The particular problem I was trying to work on was not just a piece of code but it was a snippet of a larger login system that just by the way his snippets were written, I can tell there was a problem with the bigger picture. Suggesting changes in his snippets would have cause problems with the rest of his code which would have been messed up.

I ended up just offering the OP resources so they can learn about proper login methods and SQL usage.

[dday9]

Generally what I will do, if it is not a homework assignment, is write a working code for them and heavily comment the code to show them what I am doing and why. If it's a homework assignment, I try to get the particular requirements first(only arrays, only textboxes, etc.) first and then I'll judge whether they're putting forth effort to do the same thing(write the code for them and heavily comment) or just steer them in the right direction.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

But it's those that just want the 'codez 2 werkz'

Yeh those really really annoy me, i used to post in them saying "well show us what you have done so far" but the normaly response is 'I havent don it yet as i dont know how, pls help and give codz' at which point i exit the thread.

If the OP shows even a modicum of original thought or understanding, and look like they are trying to learn i am happy to help.

I can tell there was a problem with the bigger picture. Suggesting changes in his snippets would have cause problems with the rest of his code which would have been messed up.

I ended up just offering the OP resources so they can learn about proper login methods and SQL usage.

Which is sometime the right response. If the code they have posted is just no good, then posting proper learning resources can be a good thing.

[Gruff]

I once had an OP that stumbled along for about five years.

Everyone tried to help him.

He never did learn the fundamentals let alone how to trouble shoot a problem.

After I banned him he sent me an email a day asking to be re-instated.

The only thing I could figure was that He was getting paid for the code we wrote for him.

[SJWhiteley]

Personally, I almost never post code: it's just not worth the effort; unless it's an interesting issue, or they have truly demonstrated the ability to learn. Usually, just the name and/or link to the object/method they need should be sufficient.

Really most of these questions come from learning to program by youtubing. No formal education (even the ones in a formal education establishment!).

What is really frustrating is that there definitely are the correct way and wrong way to do things, and some insist on doing it the wrong way because it works; just like running through a red light and not having an accident.

[Gruff]

BTW am I the only one that thinks "Code in the nose" when reading this thread's title?

[homer13j]

BTW am I the only one that thinks "Code in the nose" when reading this thread's title?

I read it in Charles Barkley's voice: "Turrible, just turrible."

[wossname]

I'll help those who have genuinely tried to solve a problem for themselves. That's the membership fee in my book

We all have problems understanding stuff at the start - programmers are often the worst people imaginable for writing documentation. Programmers write docs for other programmers - not for the layman.

If one asks for the answer without first trying to solve it for oneself, then one is in the wrong game. Programming, or indeed any technical pursuit whatsoever, is likely not the vocation one is best suited to.

[wossname]

Part of this problem is I think, down to lack of eyeballs on this site these days.
VBF has all but evaporated to a vestige of it's old self now.

Threads based around newbie programming questions that would have attracted 20 helpful replies 10 years ago, now go entirely ignored.

The talent has gone.

So has the community.


Someone needs to fix up an online re-union.

[dclamp]

I have seen the same decline in activity of the years as well. I have only been here since 2006 but It was much more active then than it is now.

[Pc Monk]

Some people never get out of first gear.

and who we are exactly talking about ?

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Threads based around newbie programming questions that would have attracted 20 helpful replies 10 years ago, now go entirely ignored.

The talent has gone.

So has the community.


Someone needs to fix up an online re-union.

I suspect a lot of developers probably moved to C# and ASP.Net (if they weren't doing it already) and or mobile development, those forums are almost dead now and slowly those members drifted to other sites.

either that or Mendhak kidnapped them all and has them locked in his basement!

[dclamp]

Ah Mendhak. Forgot about him.

[dee-u]

Pls. bring back NoteMe also.

[dday9]

And koolsid. Wait a second...

[homer13j]

and who we are exactly talking about ?

Shaggy put on his Bigfoot suit and disappeared into the wilderness for a few weeks. But I'm pretty sure he was responding to my post about thedaily w t f .com where all kinds of crappy code can be found written by so-called "professionals."

[FunkyDexter]

Shaggy put on his Bigfoot suit

For which read "grew a beard"

[Niya]

I suspect a lot of developers probably moved to C# and ASP.Net (if they weren't doing it already) and or mobile development, those forums are almost dead now and slowly those members drifted to other sites.

I suspect it has more to do with the flood of programming languages and platforms out there today. Remember, when VB6 was still young, it was basically only Mac, PC and about 100 different versions of Linux. Now we have tablets, ChromeBooks, iPhones, Smart TVs, Smart Phones, Raspberry Pi, Arduinos and the internet. And each of these platforms have about a dozen different tools and languages to program them so developers have spread out over all these other platforms.

[SJWhiteley]

I suspect it has more to do with the flood of programming languages and platforms out there today. Remember, when VB6 was still young, it was basically only Mac, PC and about 100 different versions of Linux. Now we have tablets, ChromeBooks, iPhones, Smart TVs, Smart Phones, Raspberry Pi, Arduinos and the internet. And each of these platforms have about a dozen different tools and languages to program them so developers have spread out over all these other platforms.

This is true, along with the fact that almost every question about a given problem has been asked and effectively answered multiple times (in the very narrow scope of 'programming language Xa'.)

EDIT: I am now going to patent copyright and get a team of lawyers together for the new language I just developed called: Xa (Pronounced 'Zah').

[techgnome]

Cool... I'll create an add on for it called Human Analog or HAXa (Hazah!) Of course then it will be quickly pirated (HAXa Arrr!)

-tg

[penagate]

I think forums are now a bit passé in general. There is more traffic on structured Q&A sites like Stack Overflow and sites with structured comments like Reddit (vBulletin has a 'threaded' view, but because it's a pref no one uses it, therefore it's pointless). Also VBForums feels like it is hosted on a tired old Pentium III sitting in Brad's basement...

[penagate]

Shaggy put on his Bigfoot suit and disappeared into the wilderness for a few weeks. But I'm pretty sure he was responding to my post about thedaily w t f .com where all kinds of crappy code can be found written by so-called "professionals."

I'd enjoy that site if it were still just snippets of w.t.f. code with brief commentary. At some point the posts evolved into dramatic, nerdy epics and advertisements. And the blog format with its monthly 'archives' was OK in 2005 but feels pretty clunky now.

[visualAd]

Try paying £1000 per day for someone to write bad code for you. Only to be told "you don't understand, it's complicated" when you ask for it to be re-factored.

[dday9]

Shoot, I'll write good code for you for £500 a day!

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Try paying £1000 per day for someone to write bad code for you. Only to be told "you don't understand, it's complicated" when you ask for it to be re-factored.

Well in a way they are correct, bad code often is more complicated, so by coding it badly to begin with what they are doing is discouraging re-factoring, which surely saves everyone time!!

Shoot, I'll write good code for you for £500 a day!

i'll do it without the shooting ( Americans for you )

[dday9]

[Gruff]

OMG! That looks like someone on our local law enforcement!
I can totally see him saying something like that.

[dilettante]

Could have fooled me. Aside from the uniform he struck me as a lot like the "agile" proponents I run into at client sites describing their "process." They always gripe that they need faster PCs because their compiles take too long to get enough of them done in one day.

More cores = more barrels for their "shotgun coding" style.

[Peter Porter]

I think a snazzy looking p2p application, that also posts to VBForums, could attract experienced programmers, and help newbies.

Maybe with the option for employers to hire programmers for projects, or buy ready made code.

* Programmers could upload working projects that employers could run over this p2p application without seeing the code.

* When interested, they could either pay for this working code, or hire the programmer for other projects.

* Programmers will have options to manually or automatically deny or grant the sale of ready made applications. By granting permission manually, the programmer has time to research these employers to be safe.

* This p2p application will recieve 5% cut of all sales, which would be shared amongst developers of it.

[wossname]

Michigan is only slightly larger than the UK.

[homer13j]

Michigan is only slightly larger than the UK.

And it's shaped like a giant mitten.

[FunkyDexter]

Whereas Wossname is shaped like a giant kitten.

[SJWhiteley]

Michigan is only slightly larger than the UK.

You mean a whole state is only a bit larger than the UK? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!