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Thread: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

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    Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    When I installed Win 10 (32 bits) on a computer, a rather old Geforce motherboard with an AMD processor and 2 Gig ram, I had no other goal than just take a peek at it and see if it worked, both Win 10 and that old motherboard that had never ran before, it had been on my computer stuff shelves for what, almost 8 years now, as the packing slip would indicate.

    Install went without a glitch, Win 10 was running.

    Next in line of course was to see if my VB6 apps would run. They did.

    Well that's it... And then this morning : Would Visual Studio install?

    I have read in the past how problematic it could be to install VS on Win 7 or 8. After a bit of googling, it seemed that, yes, there could be issues.. it seemed awfully complicated without any warranty of success.

    Ahhh what the heck... just slip in the CD in the DVD drive and see what happens. So I ran set-up in the automatic troubleshooting mode of Win 10. Not a single error (actually one, but I'll skip that here). Twenty minutes or so later, I had VS enterprise edition (without MSDN) all installed.

    Will the the VB6 IDE run? It does. There is one single error. VB6 starts with a message : DataView : Error in the OLE registry. I can live without Dataview. I installed VB SP6. It did not solve the error.

    Let's move on. One of my not so tiny pet peave in WIN 10 is than you can NOT Drag-drop files with unknown extensions in Notepad or it's shortcut. Bummer, I use that 50 times a day.

    First VB6 app, 4 lines of code, a container to shell execute notepad with a filename. App compiled and worked. Both on the app and it's shortcut. Let's move on.

    Second app. Here again, just a few of lines of code to drag-drop a file on a picture box. It compiled and worked fine too.

    The only other glitch I encountered, besides the Dataview erron on starting VB6 is that it did not let me save a in the standard ...VB98..whatever folder. That was a mistake on my part , I did not intent to save there anyway. Saving elsewhere worked fine.

    So that's how it is on this sunny sunday, VB6 IDE running on Win 10. Early stages you'll say? Looks promising I'll say.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Report Part 2

    I wanted to know a little bit mode about the DataView error, and some other stuff. I tried another couple of install of VS, this time checking every single item possible in the Install Components window. Three or four failures later, always at the same place in the process, I took notice that it was one single component part the VS Analyser components that was the culprit. Removing this single item, the next installation completed without a glitch.

    The DataView error upon launching VB6 was still there. I googled a bit, search the registry a bit too. Nothing conclusive. I decided to try running VB6 in a compatibility mode of a Win version prior to XP SP3. Instead, for some reason, I choose Vista SP2.
    I am not sure exactly what happenend, but somehow the DataView error disappeared. At this point, I was displeased a little bit of having to run VB6 in administrator mode, so I went back to compatibility, removed it. Now VB6 starts up fine, no error messages of any kind. At some point, Dataview.DDL properly registered. All seems perfect.

    There's not much to say at this point. Maybe just that, while trying to comprehend things, one particular visual component that was available and I had never seen before intrigued me, i tried it, it did not work. More like a toy really, don't need it.

    All in all, I have no issues that need solving, except about Win 10 itself.

    It is too early to say if VB6 will prove robust, but there are no indications otherwise. I am not an OCX builder and I avoid third party. If I get DAO 2.5 or 3 to work, I'll be satisfied... although....all my database stuff was originally created in VB3 and database format 1.0 (not called DAO at the time). The move from VB4 to VB6 (and DAO 2.5) proved totally disastrous (to this day still) because of the way DAO saves only Unicode in binary fields, while I had the habit of encoding large sort of binary data of all kind. In the end, I want to rethink my DAO stuff for the future, but i have to maintain compatibility for may customer's data for many years to come.

    Now about Win 10, this particular event makes it shine more than I expected, except for one thing. Windows 10 is claimed by MS to be fast, and good portions of it re-written. That latter point I have my doubts about but it sure works well so far. It does boot very fast, the fastest booting Window ever. Is it fast execution-wise? That is the question. There appears to be changes the way threads are processed and the CPU activity can go 99% on file operations.

    Still, the IDE feels sluggish. When you move populated windows, such as the Project Explorer, the moves are not smooth. After a bit more work, I found out that (and it is still very early for such conclusions) you switch to compatibility mode to get a feature to work (such as for registering as control you have not used before). When doing this, the IDE is much more sluggish and you are always presented the administrator dialog box.

    When you have your new control registered properly, you can turn off compatibility mode, IDE works faster and you are not presented the administrator dialog box at start up.

    So in the end of the beginning, I would say : VB6 and Win10 Hurrayyy, you make nice pair, but to Win 10 alone : Ohhh boy they made you ugly llooll

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    What exactly is the problem? VB6 is not longer supported so it is NOT guaranteed to run on the newer operating systems and given that Windows 10 is only in the earlier stages of development I would not worry about it.
    when you quote a post could you please do it via the "Reply With Quote" button or if it multiple post click the "''+" button then "Reply With Quote" button.
    If this thread is finished with please mark it "Resolved" by selecting "Mark thread resolved" from the "Thread tools" drop-down menu.
    https://get.cryptobrowser.site/30/4111672

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    The sluggishness in the IDE exists in other windows versions as well. It is apparently caused by the aero themes. If you turn off desktop composition that issue should go away

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    The sluggishness in the IDE exists in other windows versions as well. It is apparently caused by the aero themes. If you turn off desktop composition that issue should go away
    Win 10 TP does not use Aero. I'll inquire more when I have some time, only as evalution, no plan to put Win 10 and VB6 into production. I don't spend my time doing this kind of stuff, but it seems Win 10 does real well as far as backward compatibility and legacy software is concerned.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwalker83 View Post
    What exactly is the problem? VB6 is not longer supported so it is NOT guaranteed to run on the newer operating systems and given that Windows 10 is only in the earlier stages of development I would not worry about it.
    There is no problem, I am reporting good news.

    Now when Microsoft says that Win 10 is in the early stage of developement, it's about the same thing as when Congress forms a committee and says : "Failure is not an option", then they show up 12 months later in a press conference announcing they could not reach an agreement.

    Win 10 is far more advanced that MS says it is. Only the bugs will be ironed out. Win 10 TP is the product. Don't be so gullible as taking MS's words for facts. Microsoft can be terrible at things... ask Oracle and the flock of programmers that are moving platform independent JAVA.

    Now an argument that is heard a lot : move on, things change, you got to follow the latest trends and all that sort of things.

    This is not so in the engineering and manufacturing world. Half of my customers still use the 16-bit VB-4 versions of my products. Windows 2000 Professional is still widely used in IT depts. Besides, many older scientific and machine driving programs (CNC routing and milling, oil analysis, rotor balancing) are very hard to replace, when at all possible. There is a whole business providing legacy systems for all sorts of things.

    That is my reality. Backward compatibility DOES matter. For me and for hundreds of thousands of users.

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    PowerPoster Elroy's Avatar
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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Yep, I run the VB6 IDE on either a 64 Bit Windows 7 or a 64 Bit Windows 8 machine. It runs perfectly on both, and no DataView error (although I never use that anyway). I do like Aero but I do have it automatically turn off when running the VB6 IDE. I have a couple of other programs that have the same problem, so I'm used to it. I get that done by going into properties on the VB6.EXE program and telling it to run in "Window XP SP3" mode. I also tell it to be sure and run as administrator on the same screen. And also, the "Disable desktop composition" checkbox is checked. That's probably the Windows Aero option.

    It's good to know that we're all still up and running on Windows 10. It's been said by many others that all Microsoft has been doing for quite some time is just moving things around (confusing people) and calling it a new OS. And, in the process, breaking a few things, like your Notepad drag-and-drop, and the "Start" button. Geez, I STILL have no idea what they were thinking when they killed the "Start" button.

    But again, thanks for the info. I've long argued that they should include the entire VB6 IDE into the OS (just like VBA is included in Office apps). Can you imagine a native VB6 interface on a tablet or a phone? That'd put Microsoft back on the map, rather than being the "me too me too" company they've turned into.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Thanks Elroy for your comments on my post. Your reply shows you read every details. When I re-read these posts, I realize my mastering of the english language is not as good as I would like it to be.

    Anyway, back on topic, I was always reluctant on new Windows Versions. Contrary to many, I am a fan of Vista and I feel things went downhill from there. But I decided to take Win 10 upfront, and for the time being, I am particularly pleased with the compatibility of legacy software. The fact that VB6 works without hassle was a relief after reading about so much problems installing VB6 on Win 7 and 8.

    Most of the discussion on the Win 10 TP feedback site is about looks : Aero vs flat, Desktop vs Metro, etc.. I do agree that appearance does matter and that Win 10 is unforgivingly ugly. But i am more concerned about what is going on under the hood.

    For years now, MS has been pushing their .Net stuff down our throat, saying this is what it's gonna be from now on. I don't want to get too much into that but in one word : horrible. They have defaced one of the best language and made it an abomination. VS in nothing but an MIT techies wet dream. I just don't care about this over-usage of classes and all that stuff. What I want is RAD, and VS certainly ain't it.

    In 2014, some programming site climbed up VB6 as one of the most popular language ever, while VS, despite its many versions and years upon years of development, is trailing way behind in the list.

    The fact is VB6 just won't die, despite all MS efforts in that regard. They have turned down a petition of thousands of users demanding the continuation of "Classic VB", under the fallacious pretext that the COM model was not appropriate anymore and that the framework was the way to go... etc etc. By doing that they have put aside the one thing that made them so popular in favor of something people just don't like, or want.

    Much as the Win 10 UI analogy, what matters is not the actual insider technical details about COM vs .Net, but rather the fact that RAD is gone, small executables too. Instead a series of many large frameworks in constant need of updates and about which deployment proves a nightmare more often than not.

    But now comes Win 10, touted to smaller, faster etc. MS is way too much on itself than to admit it's own errors about .net and the VS line of products... but the whole thing is cracking at the seams. And they know it. One proof of things going wrong it Window RT, their much touted Windows platform for Mobile.

    Then just last week (or the one before) they announced the discontinuation of the Win RT platform and SDK, and instead... guess what... that WIN 10 will become a common platform for Desktop, Mobile and Phone. They even posted pictures of their MS-Phone running on Win 10. Also, it's not a big secret, they are still working on COM and were supposed to present some COM product in mid-october.

    I don't have enough technical background to appreciate all the details of what went on for so many years now. I can only suppose that their too many platforms turned out to be impractical in the end, that framework proved too heavy for mobile and that they somehow had to get things simple again and bring some form of COM back into the picture. New CEO must have realized that they MUST do something if they don't want to lose the war in the end, with Android and iOS dangerously gaining ground on them.

    What will this mean? Possibly two things. Maybe a future VB7 based on COM. I wish they will bring RAD back and drop the horrible syntax and complexities of modern VS, although my hopes are not too high on that particular point. The other thing that may mean, and it's too early to say, is that maybe, just maybe, with Mobile and Phones on Win 10, it could be possible to write apps for Mobile and Phone on good old VB6 and maybe for the Sore too. One can dream can't one?

    When point I forgot to mention is that users (such as me anyway) don't want necessarily all VB6 back. I mean the more esoteric parts of 6, seldom used anyway. Just bring the essentials of RAD , GDI, API and similar and that should be fine.

    Oouuffff, that did turn out a bit lengthier that the version I ditched, but if I get an audience of one, those words will not have been written in vain

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Hey, good stuff Navion. I've shouted similar things from the mountaintops for many years. Excellent point about RAD (and for those uninitiated, that means Rapid Application Deployment). I still maintain that VB6 is the finest RAD language in existence. Why do you think that some form of it is still being used by professors (as evidenced by some of the homework assignments we get on the threads here).

    Heck, I even often fire it up and use it as a formula solver in the Debug window. It's just an incredibly powerful and versatile tool all the way around.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Yep ... we are obviously on the same wave length. What people don't get, it is that the text source is the TOP level. This is why it it called a high level language. What our customers want is fast developing and what we need to achieve that is RAD. The compiler???? That is THEIR job (MS). They can write anything under the hood and NOT expose the programmers to so much of the internal complexities of the system. In that regard, MS and C++ has failed big time. There is no excuse to make things all so heavy.

    Case in point : the simple task of loading a picture. Why can't we just write LoadPicture and be done with it. It's their job to deal with all the complexities so we can spend more time on practical problems, be more productive, with time left in the week-ends to play with the kids. Just for fun.. take a look at the source code of Photo-Demon to witness how nasty programming has become. PD uses ImageMagick, another popular library too, GDI+ and finally VB native code in order to account for all the possibilities. Not dumping on you here Elroy, just mentioning facts for the occasional reader

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Navion, since we're pontificating, here's a comment I made to one of David Platt's articles:

    Platt’s metaphors still bug me. Regarding VB6, maybe this is a more appropriate metaphor: In the 1400s, Gutenberg invented the printing press. It’s commonly agreed by historians that his invention “permanently altered the structure of society.” However, his primary motivation was to print Bibles. Before that time, via cloistered scribes, reading and interpreting the word of God was the exclusive domain of the Pope, to be promulgated by his Bishops and Priests. With the printing press, the word of God was brought to the masses to be read and interpreted by them directly. The result was the reformation, leading to the renaissance and our modern age of science, democracy, and technology.

    With just a touch less grandiosity, Microsoft did something similar with the advent of their BASIC language, starting back with Radio Shack TRS-80 computers and even before. Prior to that time, computers were the rather exclusive domain of the DEC, IBM, and Wang “priests.” Microsoft quite successfully brought the computer, and the ability to make it do wonderful things, to the masses. This progressed through DOS with the BASIC Professional Development System, on through Windows combined with the various versions of VB. Those new to the scene can argue otherwise, but those of us who have been around know that there’s a rather direct upward compatible path all the way from TRS-80 BASIC to VB6.

    However, when they abandoned VB6 (thereby abandoning their upward compatible path), it was as if they had decided that their entire success strategy had been a mistake. It’s almost as if Gutenberg felt he had made a mistake, and started going around collecting up his Bibles from the masses, destroying them, and giving the interpretation of God back to the Pope, Bishops, and Priests sitting in their ivory towers. Because of copyright laws, Microsoft has a bit more chance of pulling this off than the Catholic Church, but not without a great deal of fallout, lost respect, unneeded divisions, which we’ve seen in the larger programming community.

    Microsoft, give us back our Bibles (erm, I mean, VB6) so we can once again have a direct relationship with our computers, making them do all the wonderful things that were once supported and applauded. Ideally, build it into the next release of Windows, just like VBA is built into Microsoft Office.

    Platt, a Knuckleball is a specialized pitch that can only be thrown by a few elite pitchers. VB6 is a wonderful, well integrated, full featured computer language that allows straightforward access to computer programming to bright people who wish to make computers do high-level tasks.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Agreed of all counts, of course.

    I remember quite clearly, early in the beginning of Windows, Bill Gates himself raved about the possibilities of a Visual Basic for Windows, which did not exist at the time. He pushed the matter further and further saying how it would eventually embody and merge all the other languages (Cobol, Fortran, Pascal, etc) into a super simple language that could be extended till the end of times.

    Somewhere in the process (when Bill Gates was not in charge of development anymore I suppose), things changed, and somehow, C and C++ , out of their strength on other platform, finally won the war. I find a little bit awkard the fact that VB is now modeled based on C++

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    C and c++ applications are made of block of codes that repeatedly used by all users in a system like Linux. Visual basic use "controls" as building blocks, and for that reason is a rapid tool. The .Net use both of them, block of codes and controls to make things easier. So why someone want to stay at vb6?
    First vb6 is a known language (at some percent of knowledge). Second any user of vb6 programming tool has ready made code. So he has the blocks of code and rapid tool. So the question is...why he must change environment? Only for one reason he has to change...for using technology that old RAD tool can't work with it. How Microsoft deploy new technologies? Are those that the public ask for them, or vote for them? Technology updates aren't democratic actions...but are equal to an attacker...Technologies insert to the battlefield, and may live or die depends from the others technologies...no matter if some have the same producer. So vb6 die for the charm NET and then NET has many changes as die often...as versions advance it to next level. So from the programmer scope, where all technologies is out of his scope, the latest RAD has no or little things to offer, and a passing to the new tool maybe is too hard and many times harder to live with that. So a technology has to conquer the user first. So any good enterprise has to advert the fantastic tool that make giving the reason why should anyone has to use it.
    So now we have the joke part of our discussion. All RAD tools given "AS-IS" with no obligations from mother company that this suits to our needs, nor that the specifications has properties that always (as time go) benefits the user. Software is not as a bread, with a common sense of what we can get from it. So how Microsoft can tell us why the new RAD is new one and not an old with new form? Vb6 uses visual controls, as part of windows but we can create own controls, and vb6 gives the port to use OS with a RAD. Net technology are a lego style tool...You get the blocks of "manage" code, some good pieces of code, you have to forget to use OS - or do limited use- and thats all. To be more clarify to us...She has the knife and the fruit together, so the new OS has parts to offer to the next new Net flavor. And that is why she can promote it without say anything for specs or benchmarks. You need it because she make it as companion tool. Anyone has to use this companion. You buy the OS and then you need the companion tool.

    For all others that need to manipulate just data...VB6 is the all time classic.
    Last edited by georgekar; Oct 21st, 2014 at 05:10 AM.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    I must disagree with many of your points here, not picking on any single one, that could be tedious, but instead re-stating my position in (hopefully) a condensed version.

    C and C++ syntax is horrible. It's hard to write, hard to read, has the most horrible switch case statement, the list goes on....

    The operators for example : +=, -=, :=, *=, very bad readability. Some will argue the compiler (and C) is optimized to make use of these constructs to produce faster code. This is a completely fallacious argument. The job of the compiler is to take a bit of text and transpose it into (near) machine code. There is not a single good reason why a compiler would produce a different bit of code while writing a = a + 2 instead of a += 2. The first one is logical and easy to read, the second needlessly confusing.

    VB6 is NOT about controls. The basic controls have not changed much in VS. They are just harder to use because of the increased syntax complexity.

    VB6 is RAD because it promotes a simple syntax with a high level of readability, and automatic casting (for the most part) between data types. VS makes excessive usage of inherited classes. If you read the .net forum... I think half the hardship reported is about not using the proper data type and being forced to use the classes inherited .ToString and .ToInt etc, etc.

    VS syntax is way too much long winded and C inherited. I am not going into any examples here, but having to type in 3,4 or 5 inherited class member to finally end up in a code line that used to be written with a single 3 letter words does not promote RAD.

    People will argue that .net does more than old VB. I hope it does, there are new threading models to support and this and that and so forth, all things that VB6 does not do. But for ONE SINGLE REASON : VB6 development stopped in 2000 and only the new visual studio got to benefit from the advance in technology, but VB6 COULD HAVE benefited from those advances in its own more RAD fashion.

    I will stop here, but the list of what is wrong goes on and on and on.

    I will say it again, the arguments about which VS is superior to VB6 are totally fallacious in nature. Things did NOT had to be engineered this way. It is the compiler's job to isolate the programmer from the harder technological aspects of the under the hood system level management and promote RAD, ease of use and readability. In that regard, MS failed big time, throwing hardship right up in your face, gullible techies responding in chorus... yeah yeah yeah, bring us more of that nasty stuff.

    Ohh, on a final note I will say this.. most of my heavy duty apps contain a dedicated interpreter with its own script language. Now the purists will jump up and say : OHHH no.. not the I word (interpreter) synonym with slow and old fashioned.... Well people.. get REAL. JAVA is nothing but interpreted C++. So are HTML, CSS, Perl, PHP, XML, VBA, VBscript, SQL, name it, it's an interpreter.

    There is still a place for hard coding : numerical and scientific intensive calculation tasks and the like. But on a third final note, VB6 in native compile mode can produce numerical libraries almost as fast, and in some cases even faster than its companion C++ 6. I would be surprised if current VS-C 9 is any faster at all.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    georgekar, I haven't read Navion's response (and I will), but, if your argument is true, why has Microsoft so diligently tried to KILL VB6 for so many years? With all the demand for it, why didn't they release simultaneously COM and .NET products? The reason is clear (even if twisted) that they're afraid of their own product. They're worried that a COM product will stifle sales of their .NET products.

    Also, if your position is true, why do multiple surveys say that there are as many VB6 programmers STILL out there as there are VB.NET programmers? Why does this VB6 forum stand on par with the VB.NET forum on this very board? VB6 was released in 1998, 16 years ago. You'd think the pure robustness and tenacity of the language would send a signal to Microsoft, but they seem to be too blind (or possibly stubborn) to see it, possibly to their own demise.

    A language that's tightly bound to the OS, like VB6, just allows for a level of RAD combined with power and extensibility that hasn't been found since. In my humble opinion, it's clearly the most foolish and disrespectful thing that Microsoft has ever done to try its best to kill the product that Bill Gates supposedly started in his garage and truly was the beginnings of Microsoft years before MS-DOS. And those that argue that VB6 isn't rather directly upward compatible from the original Microsoft BASIC languages are just Microsoft fanboys trying to make bogus arguments for argument's sake. I've still got snippets of code floating around in my "AllPurpose" routines that were originally developed on 8 inch floppies. And .NET was a clear break with that long and incredibly successful legacy that Microsoft promulgated for so many years.

    If your argument is true, why won't Microsoft now sell the VB6 IDE? Heck, put a "no warranty, no support" label on it if they want. Even Intel still sells its old 4040 and 8080 chips, still running at 1.4 megahertz (or slower). What could possibly be Microsoft's motivation for not selling a product that has a reasonable demand, unless they're actually afraid of how good it is and how it might affect sales of other products? This isn't fair competition. It's outright bullying.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Having now read Navion's latest post, I'll make a couple more comments. He states that C (and its derivatives) isn't intuitive as VB6. Being a fair C programmer myself, I personally disagree with that. I think it's just a matter of what you get used to. I've gotten to where I can switch from the "i = i + 1" nomenclature to the "i++;" nomenclature pretty easily. It's just some kind of switch in my head.

    However, having coded a fair amount of code in both, I can tell you with absolutely no reservation that coding in C is just more tedious than coding in VB6. If I want something that's low level, tight, efficient, and tightly bound to the CPU (say a printer driver), I'll admit that C is absolutely the way to go. However, if I want a product that may have frequent enhancements, is easy to maintain, compiles and distributes with a minimal amount of fuss, VB6 wins hands down.

    In my opinion, it's two entirely different cultures. For instance, I've argued elsewhere that C programmers can get into hours of discussion over whether (~-i) or (--i) is more efficient in passing a decremented counter, where a VB6 programmer will just pass (i - 1) and never have a second thought about it. VB6 programmers are high level programmers with their eye on the ball, trying to get high-quality products out the door for their clients. C programmers are the fanatical nervous types worried about wasting a couple of flops of CPU time, when it just doesn't matter.

    We absolutely need both, but don't try to merge it all into one language, which was what was attempted with the .NET suite. To this day, I truly believe that a bunch of C programmers got control of the Microsoft language development, with no clue about marketing and respect, and decided that they'd force this .NET stuff down our throats. In the end, that has reduced Microsoft from a clear leader in the industry to a "me too, me too" company, chasing to catch up in the tablet, phone, and cloud markets.

    Microsoft, on the off chance that you're listening, give us back VB6, possibly just building it into the OS, like VBA in Office.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    One final comment. If VB6 isn't that great, why do we still see university classes using it as a pedagogic tool? That's because it truly is intuitive and RAD oriented. Heck, just yesterday, there's no doubt that I commented on a couple of threads where people were on here with VB6 homework assignments. How many other languages that were cancelled 15 years ago can you say that about?

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Elroy : I suggest you go vote the new petition. I will not post a link, but you can find it on Microsoft's Visual Studio Uservoice site.

    The first petition was officially turned down by Microsoft at 74xx votes. The new one, right on top of the Basic Ideas page with three times more votes (currently 1200+) than the next most popular suggestion.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Will do.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Quote Originally Posted by Navion View Post
    but if I get an audience of one, those words will not have been written in vain
    Don't worry Navion. There is a much larger audience interested in VB6 programming than many imagine.

    I don't know if you are familiar with Gibra's installer for VB6 on Windows 7 and 8 - it is a utility to help install VB6 (though you can install VB6 without this, of course). It has had over 23,000 downloads - a fair size audience.

    VB6 currently has Microsoft support until 2023/2024, but it looks likely it will continue well past then.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Good stuff and discussions here but lets remember the thread topic

    VB6 needs to be run as admin just as any of the other development IDEs. Its a fact that we have come to live with and accept over the years. Have you tried installing VB6 as Admin? Maybe the DataControl error will resolve?
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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Quote Originally Posted by RobDog888 View Post
    VB6 needs to be run as admin just as any of the other development IDEs. Its a fact that we have come to live with and accept over the years. Have you tried installing VB6 as Admin? Maybe the DataControl error will resolve?
    The datacontrol issue has been fixed. I did talk about it post #2, but it could easily have been lost in the post's stuffiness.

    Other similar issues have been resolved too. It goes like this:

    Running VB6 on Win 10 in non-administrator mode and non-compatibility mode works perfectly except but for one issue. The IDE has problem with components and references when you add them for the first time from the IDE. Only then you need to switch to compatibility and VB6.EXE will register the problematic component or reference just fine. Once this is done, you can kick off compatibility mode and do without it.

    I never installed VB6 on either Win 7 or 8 but I have come across the topic many times on the net and it seems to me, that VB6 looks less problematic on 10 that it does on either 7 or 8.

    There's a lot of stuff that I don't use in VB6, I tend wo write all my code and depend the less as possible on external dependencies as possible. For that reason, I am not going to try every tiny bit and resolve every single issue.

    I can only conclude : so far so good. Win 10 is still ugly. About this I have little hope. But all things considered, I am now pretty much convinced that MS is committed to making Win 10 a success and that includes being able to run on somewhat older and less stuffed machines, and also provide a very high level of compatibility with legacy software products such as VB6.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    I've installed the IDE on both Win7 and Win8 machines, both 32 and 64 bit OS versions. I've never really had any problems, but I do always install and run as administrator.

    The only problem I've ever encountered (and it seems to be consistent), is that, the first couple of times you run it, you have to kick it a bit to get it to register everything. However, once it gets over its initial installation pains, it runs fine from then on. Easiest way to get it to set everything up correctly is to create a new project and then include all your standard OCX references, throwing a control out of them onto the default form. If that project will load correctly, you should be good to go.

    I do have a habit of setting the VB6.EXE to compatibility mode (WIndows XP SP3), and I also make sure Desktop Composition is disabled on the Compatibility tab. I've seen others run the IDE without doing this. I just tend to have problems with older programs if AERO (i.e., Desktop Composition) is left running.

    I'm also always sure to install VB6SP6 as well. The MSDN help package is sort of take it or leave it.

    I'm hoping it'll be the same with Win10. From Navion's testing, it sounds like that's the case.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    I tried to find an equivalent to Desktop composition on Win 10, to maybe help improve the IDE being a bit sluggish. I could not. Of course there is no Aero on Win 10.

    It's been a while since I tried it, but the one time or two I disabled Aero on Vista, the IDE did not run all that good.

    One of the biggest complaint on the Windows community feedback site, about Win 10, is that so many people want Aero or Glass back. I searched the net and vbforums about possible solutions, through API calls, to give my own VB6 programs the transparent header look. Nothing interesting. Similarly, the very thin margins of forms on Win 10 is a bit annoying. VB .Net can handle things in that regard. I searched for that too. Nothing conclusive came out. There were bits and pieces about sizing a form with API and the client area, but my attempts from those bits did not succeed, the client area of the form going along with the main form window.

    I would be really interested in making that work in VB6 (changing the client area size). If that could work somehow, VB6 programs would look better on 10. Any ideas, people ???

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Say Navion,

    My first thought was to make borderless forms and then build our own client area. That would be a bit of work, making minimize, maximize, close buttons, and making a drag-around area. But certainly not impossible. In fact, it some respects, it would allow much more control.

    However, if you're up for it, I've got another request. Since I don't have Win10, I really don't know what you're talking about. Does it have both a Standard and a Metro mode like Win8? If so, does the standard mode have traditional Windows? (If Microsoft ultimately goes all the way to Metro, they'll need to rename their OS to "Screens" rather than "Windows".) But anyway, if you're up for it, how about a screen shot of what a typical VB6 form looks like in Win10, and maybe also some other more Win10-ish program, if there are differences.

    Regards,
    Elroy

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    You can choose either the Metro or "Desktop" as main interface. If you choose Desktop, there is a small Metro Panel on the right side of the Desktop menus to launch Metro Apps. For now at least, changing interface mode requires rebooting.

    Standard forms in Desktop mode are very bland. Square corners, very thin margins (a single pixel wide I would say). The borders and corners are very hard to grab at first, because they are so thin. Actually, there is a trick : borders are hard to grab if you aim right on them. You have to aim for a fanthom border (invisible) outside or the visible window. Much like the visible window is a client area inside the true window area

    The forms have a higher header ratio than normal, which helps emphasize their ugliness (people complaining). The windows explorer has a totally white background with a sort of blinding effect, like bright snow on a sunny day. Its almost hard to look at. Graphics elements on it don't stand out. It really a case of : "What were they thinking?" Wallpaper rendering is horrible. I did complain about that in the Feedback App.

    I will post pics later, but I must get rid first of that horrible wallpaper I set up last time around. loll

  27. #27

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Here are a couple of screen shots. Unfortunately, the forum software scales down my fullsize png's into smaller jpeg's

    First the whole screen, menus, one of my VB6 apps using (themed). You will notice the red color of the menus. My App should have a blue header, but the print-screen key relinquished it out of focus. You don't choose these colors. Menu and header colors are picked from your wall paper, probably using a color history algorithm selecting out main tones.

    Second a closer shot of Windows Explorer that hopefully will render not too bad here. Notice the bland, solid and flat appearance of scroll bars, square corners, thin margin. The blue header doet not make it appear as bad as it could. At one point I add a brownish yellow wallpaper. The image and colors were ok as an artwork piece, but translated to menus and headers, they were most sickening.

    Probably these shots by themselves don't make it look that bad, but standing in front of the monitor for a long time does not bring you a comfortable feeling. On the positive side, Win 10 uses a new display font technology that I have grown to like. The Win 7 system that I use on the same monitor, while having nicer "Glass" windows, also has some kind of color font display that can be very tiring to the eye, I did not realize that before Win 10, though I must say I rarely use the Win 7 computer. So its a toss really, ugly but appeasing vs vibrant but aggressive. All in all Vista remains the best.

    I am surprised at the amount of comments the UI generates, not as much about 10 not being really nice but more Desktop vs Metro. There is no revolution here, not much is new from Vista to 7,8 and now 10. Well Metro is different of course, but no big differences on Desktop. While this is true, for some people tiny details do matters (I am one of them) and I find Win 10 more pleasing to navigate then either 7 or 8. At least I got comfortable with it (Win 10) more that the other two, but that's not a fair point. I have almost more time now on 10, than 7 (which is my spare computer) and 8 (touch screen laptop seldom used with a monitor or a mouse).

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Thanks Navion,

    At first glance, I thought you were doing something fancy and putting your menu up in the titlebar, sort of like the way Chrome pushes its tabs up there. However, upon further squinting, and remembering you saying that the borders are one pixel, I now see that the menu is slightly down. It's interesting that Windows Explorer gets a full sized titlebar, but a VB6 form doesn't. This makes me think that maybe there are some new API calls to manipulate the non-client areas of forms in Windows 10, but I have no idea. You're right though, they're METROing the non-Metro interface.

    Actually, I was just taking a look at my Windows 8 machine (in non-Metro mode) and it looks quite similar (squared windows with no curve or translucency). Also, Word 2012 on Windows 8 also has those ultra-thin borders. However, some other apps, like Chrome have thicker more traditional borders. I've messed with the windows style API's before, but it's been a while. I have no way to explore it, but I bet there'll be some way to get the thick borders back.

    Again, thanks for sharing.

    Take Care,
    Elroy

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Navion,
    I love vb6. This language reflect my generation (born 1966). I would like to run it in Windows 10. I have no problem to run it through a virtual box.. (as I do now, I run xp in my rock linux), when the OS will be ready to start sell. I have no customers to waiting my new version of software. So I do my own "experiments" writing my own language in vb6.
    About the new OS
    I think that less people can really change their OS. So Windows 10 has to battle the android (I think that some day we will see a desktop android..running in heavy processors), if can stay alive from the older OS. That is a repeated story with Microsoft. Where are OS like the 95 and the XP? 95 bring multimedia to anyone and Xp bring the stability (no blue screens) and the nice interface. From Windows 7...the put clear lines as borders (that is good) and inside they put labels and hidden buttons anywhere...It is madness....I see the screenshot above and I really going mad...What is this???? We are looking three scroll bars...why? You see scroll bars in android, if it isn't necessary? Sorry but I have to wait Windows 15, and I hope to see something new.

    (I forgot to mention Vista...in Greek language we have a joke...Svista means clear...so we clear vista...as was very heavy for the time that went to market)
    Last edited by georgekar; Oct 21st, 2014 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Vista

  30. #30
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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Say George,

    Here's a link for you: http://www.basic4ppc.com/

    I have no idea if this is a quality product, but it's sure an interesting idea. I've got a Java compiler set up and will use that if I get into writing Android apps (which I've done just playing around), but BASIC on Android is sure a novel idea. From what I've read, it's interrupt (event) driven too, which it would almost have to be this day in age.

    Elroy

    EDIT: And just to sing my mantra, if Microsoft would put a VB6-COM based language in their OS (and keep it there for tables and phones), they'd have us throwing graffiti from the buildings.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    georgekar :

    I know what you mean. I think MS is realizing that Android and iOS are pushing real hard. Microsoft has been all over the place with a separate WinRT for mobile, a different SDK for the Store etc.. As I mentioned before, the announcement that Win 10 will become a common platform for Desktop, Mobile and Phone is already a step in the good direction. With VB6 running on Win10, I also mentioned the possibility of a Mobile App in VB6. Well that's only small talk really, I suppose there are reasons for which VB6 could not produce a Mobile App, (or maybe not.)

    But time is of the essence. Samsung has been able to push the Android platform because it is a BIG Japanese company with the manufacturing resources, and pumping enough money into the soft part as well. Microsoft has not been able achieve success on the hardware platform, partly because it has to use third parties to manufacture the stuff, and also because of it's narrow minded attitude about software SDK's. It is now up to MS to take the right decisions and make things attractive enough to interest North American developers into pumping good mobile apps. As I said.. they have taken the first step. Will that be enough? Will we have to wait till Win 15? I am afraid if something does not happen with Win 10 or 11, there might not be a 15... lolll I am dramatizing here. But the matter is serious nonetheless.

    So how about offering a developing platform that people actually love and that is more productive (RAD)? It makes sense to me that a VB6 like product would do well to achieve that goal. While you find a great number who would agree with this, there is also a large number of people who have embraced the .Net platform and see nothing wrong it. Microsoft has put so much time and effort into it for the last 14 years (unbelievable) and they are so deep into it, that really makes me wonder if they can make a U-turn on that. Yet at the same time, the clues are here and there that it could happen. A COM based VB7? One can always dream.

    I really am clueless about the future. But the facts are that, globally, MS is on a downward slope as of lately. They have to move fast before Java or others take over . On a side note, there is a basic for android on the market and from what I have seen, it is MUCH MUCH MUCH more VB6 like than it is .net like. And it is pumping mobile and phone apps right as we speak. Basic4android is RAD and NASA has been using it to develop mobile apps to control systems.

    Now the whole android thing is not all that old when you thing about it. Serious players are positioning themselves real fast. Microsoft does not have years to spare to take the right decisions. .Net is for techies, I don't think it will ever succeed to bring programming masses to Mobile... while a VB6 like RAD tool could do that.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Navion,

    There is a new build 9860 of Windows 10 TP available.

    Your comments about VB6 for Mobile Apps are interesting. Years ago there was eMbedded VB for Windows CE/Windows Mobile.
    I doubt we'll be able to do mobile apps with VB6 under Windows 10, but who knows ?. It would be nice, but then Microsoft is no longer a contender in mobile (phones or low-end tablets). VB6 apps will run on Intel-based tablets of course.

    You mentioned Basic4Android - this is certainly widely used for Mobile apps. (and see B4J the equivalent Basic language for Java).
    Another approach is NSBasic(AppStudio) - a VB6 like basic for JavaScript (on iOS and Android mobiles, or desktop).

    The future for VB6 programming is looking good !

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Quote Originally Posted by sten2005 View Post
    Navion,

    There is a new build 9860 of Windows 10 TP available.
    Thanks for your comments...

    I read about the 9860 last week. Win 10 is on Auto update... always, you can't turn it off. I was sort of hoping to see the 9860 magically appear but that did not happen. I would assume though that updates have brought me to 9860 level with the older number showing on the screen.

    I have spent the last hour browsing through the basic4android documentation. I am impressed. The code is RAD, crystal clear. Totally VB6 like plus embedded and simplified GDIP+ (no messing with rather complex series of functions to call). Some routines actually have the same name : drawImage ... with a very short list of arguments, including transparency. Yummy. I will download the basic4android trial version. Only problem is i don't have a tablet (just yet).

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    You should be seeing "Build 9860" on the screen

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    @Navion
    The old problem with Vb6 is that it opens a wide port to OS calls...so it is easy to make good things with one os, but what if you want to run it in Windows 10...Maybe some api functions...aren't there.. The same happen when we use a library that someone change to a newer version. So the problem exist for Vb6, as this is os attractive language. So how can we write an application as mobile app (not just a small routine, as in the classes)? We have to analyze the target os and found what can be done and what not! You speak about java. I use to work with Arachnophilia the html editor which from 5 version was a java program. They say that all java programs can run in all os. That is not true. Because from running to behave good is a distance between. I had used it in linux and when I had closed a tab...i saw that I had a problem with setting focus to other tabs (the text that show a tab)..so every time if I was forgot that behavior, I had to close the application and saving alll files and open again. Is this what the programmer done? No. Is my version of java..I think. So the idea for an application.."for all" OS isn't practically right.
    C and C++ programmers have to use libraries for any system because that libraries use an input stream and an output stream. When we have to write an application we need something to "talk" to the system, and we need responses in a way that libraries for anything cannot support. So we need tools like VB6 but we have to understand that we have to work a lot to shift our application to other os...The only possible solution ,for not taken more work for what we have done, is the virtual box. Maybe some day we can run Xp in Android 44...named pizza...

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Sten : nope, not yet anyway, still stuck to 9841. I sure will not re-install Win 10 for now... it's working and it still is just a preview.

    georgekar :

    Software can become messy when you rely on libraries or third party software or run-time. Apart from requiring always the very latest, Java samples I have come across have been working fairly well, But I would not like to get into that platform. It`s runtime is fine for the web, but otherwise, too many uncertainties. It`s also slower than VB6 code.

    Anyway I make it a rule to stay pure VB6 + GDI + GDIP. These remain constant on every platform. No other controls other than the basic ones, with the exception or Richtextbox. OCX`s have reportedly been problematic in some cases, though I would`t know, since I don`t use them. Oh yeah, I also use DAO (msjett) but I have not come across deployment program with a properly built deployment package. I do also use my own C++ dll`s, but I keep control of that too. So in the end, I don`t have anything to complain about.

    Looking more closely at basic4android, that is entering dependency world, both the framework and Java. Not much to my liking. I am interested in Mobile and Phone. I have some VB6 apps running on Netbooks a few years old, but these are being replaced by tablets. I guess I should buy an MS tablet and pump up some VB6 code in there, but I am moot about it. Android and IoS outsells MS by so wide a margin. MS got to take some action. Although I just said I would not get into Java, chances are I may give it another go if that's the only way to get something worthy done for tablets. Some Java code I have come across does not seem all that bad. But it`is C++ in disguise. I would rather stay VB6 like.

    In the end, the point is I am ready to consider some action, but I am not pleased with the solutions in front of me.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    From a demo small program to an application are some km to run...and not from easy road. Is any tool for Windows 10 specific...or they (will) ship the os as usual? If in the next os Microsoft put a progaming tool (a studio X) that can produce "apps" then that will be the next big step. Now with "express" editions...MS gets "express programmers" one night programmers...They run a hello program and go away...Without a big mass of app creators...Windows 10 has to sweep the dust from Android.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Quote Originally Posted by Navion View Post
    In the end, the point is I am ready to consider some action, but I am not pleased with the solutions in front of me.
    There are some interesting ideas to run Wine in other architectures and OSs

    http://wiki.winehq.org/ARM

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Windows 10 is always on automatic update, you can not turn it off.

    Yesterday's updates took a long long time. Something major was going on. Indeed, when the computer finally rebooted, Win10 build 9860 was showing on the screen. All right, things have been fixed, it ought to perform better right? Well, not quite so for VB6 users.

    Some things changed, but not for the better. I have not tested it yet all that much... but some things are now wrong for the VB6 IDE.

    First, the forms don't redraw properly. When selecting with the mouse inside a form, background goes dirty and black. A bit worry some, but not all that much. After some Windows event processing, the form redraws (repaint) fine. A little step back, but a minor glitch that is now there and that was not before. The kind that I would assume will be fixed, but still, new versions are about correcting bugs, not introducing new ones.

    Also, one of the not very nice thing about Win 10 is the flat square looks of forms. While I started the IDE in compatibility mode, the IDE was much nicer than usual. Nice rounded corners, with a gradient in the top header. Ahhh nice. Hummm, not quite so. Back to default mode, forms were their usual square look. Back to compatibility mode, the rounded forms were not there anymore and I could not bring them back after a few restart of the IDE.

    Strange indeed. A little step back that i will consider temporary. I am sure it will be fixed in time. Some major work is going on under the hood on the redraw/paint events. It is what is : a Technical Preview. That's about the extent of my testing for build 9860 so far.

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    Re: Report : VB6 IDE and compiler on Win 10 TP

    Quote Originally Posted by Navion View Post
    When I installed Win 10 (32 bits) on a computer, a rather old Geforce motherboard with an AMD processor and 2 Gig ram, I had no other goal than just take a peek at it and see if it worked, both Win 10 and that old motherboard that had never ran before, it had been on my computer stuff shelves for what, almost 8 years now, as the packing slip would indicate.

    Install went without a glitch, Win 10 was running.

    Next in line of course was to see if my VB6 apps would run. They did.

    Well that's it... And then this morning : Would Visual Studio install?

    I have read in the past how problematic it could be to install VS on Win 7 or 8. After a bit of googling, it seemed that, yes, there could be issues.. it seemed awfully complicated without any warranty of success.

    Ahhh what the heck... just slip in the CD in the DVD drive and see what happens. So I ran set-up in the automatic troubleshooting mode of Win 10. Not a single error (actually one, but I'll skip that here). Twenty minutes or so later, I had VS enterprise edition (without MSDN) all installed.

    Will the the VB6 IDE run? It does. There is one single error. VB6 starts with a message : DataView : Error in the OLE registry. I can live without Dataview. I installed VB SP6. It did not solve the error.

    Let's move on. One of my not so tiny pet peave in WIN 10 is than you can NOT Drag-drop files with unknown extensions in Notepad or it's shortcut. Bummer, I use that 50 times a day.

    First VB6 app, 4 lines of code, a container to shell execute notepad with a filename. App compiled and worked. Both on the app and it's shortcut. Let's move on.

    Second app. Here again, just a few of lines of code to drag-drop a file on a picture box. It compiled and worked fine too.

    The only other glitch I encountered, besides the Dataview erron on starting VB6 is that it did not let me save a in the standard ...VB98..whatever folder. That was a mistake on my part , I did not intent to save there anyway. Saving elsewhere worked fine.

    So that's how it is on this sunny sunday, VB6 IDE running on Win 10. Early stages you'll say? Looks promising I'll say.
    We/I (still) maintain a system primary developed in VB6 (using RDO!!!! data-access), actually running on a Windows 2003 server (soon 2008), communicating with Office 2010 (soon Office 2013) - have made some pre-tests on the new environment without serious problems.
    All-right some components are using ADO, we now use and expose webservices written in .NET, but the local client, most business-logic and data-access is still running in VB6.
    But I spoke to some guy, who says that VB6 only can allocate 80 MB RAM. Is that correct?

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