Motivation

[x34cha]

So I started learning VB.net 2 days a go, watched 100tutorials of "thenewboston" on youtube, I already feel like I can code the worlds most advanced robot AI as every newbie programmer thinks.

But seriously though, I find it really fun just learning, I havn't even made a program outside a calculator and some simple client program but even through all of this I still kinda feel demotivated to continue, because I feel like A. theres thousands of people ahead of me who have been coding for years and must have learned such a vast amount and they will get all the jobs and B. because I feel like I'm going to go through all this learning and at the end I'm just going to be stuck with nothing to do, no awesome program to create..


So I guess what I'm asking is, how do you motivate yourself and is VB really something that is worth learning and can help in jobs/business.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Find something awesome to create.

Seriously. The whole point of learning something like programming is either to create something cool, or to get paid. If your goal is to get a paycheck, then you can get a pretty good one if you are good at coding, and a fair one if you are not so good at coding. Still, if you aren't enthusiastic or even interested in the task you are doing for pay, then how is it different from working on an assembly line? It's still just work. On the other hand, if you are really interested in the project you are working on, then it may not even matter whether or not you get paid for it. There certainly are thousands ahead of you, but there are millions of problems out there, and some strikingly mundane seeming problems turn out to be quite difficult to solve in a program. I'm currently working on a data management program for fish hatcheries. It may sound pretty trivial, but it turns out to be a problem with many points of considerable interest that has allowed me to explore lots of different aspects of programming and math. The interesting logical aspects of the program have kept me engaged for a few years now, and the end result will be of interest to lots of people I work with.

If you can come up with something that interests you, that is a pretty good motivator. Otherwise, there is still the paycheck.

[Nightwalker83]

Seriously. The whole point of learning something like programming is either to create something cool, or to get paid. If your goal is to get a paycheck, then you can get a pretty good one

If you don't create the product in the first place the only way to get a job is to check if the jobs are available of course if x34cha is like yourself and most other people on here that might not be a problem since you already work in another industry.

[kareninstructor]

So I guess what I'm asking is, how do you motivate yourself and is VB really something that is worth learning and can help in jobs/business.

Hello, I don't see it as motivation but instead a passion to deliver solutions to customers. Is VB.NET worth learning, yes very much as VB.NET and C# are neck and neck in what you can create with them. It would be wise to learn VB.NET and once comfortable with VB.NET to learn C# simply because in some areas VB.NET gets a cold shoulder (which it should not) like in my area were in the classifieds it's all C# and Java while other areas are both somewhat equal. Having both under your belt provides much more flexibility in the long run.

[x34cha]

Hey Kevin, I love programming don't get me wrong but I'm 22 and I need a future career, atm I'm working labour and we all know that is not fun, so although I am personally wanting and motivated just because of how cool programming actually is for myself, if it's not going to help me in the long run I have to find something else, that is just why I asked, but as you explain it is worth it, I was watching a video of a guy on youtube who is 25, he has an audi r8 and a house already because he was programming some IT tech support software in VB, I want that.. who doesn't, either way I'm going to follow this through till the end and see what comes from it, thanks for your responses.

[Nightwalker83]

Hey Kevin, I love programming don't get me wrong but I'm 22 and I need a future career, atm I'm working labour and we all know that is not fun, so although I am personally wanting and motivated just because of how cool programming actually is for myself, if it's not going to help me in the long run I have to find something else

Yes, and since you already have a job I would not quit just yet! You would need to practice your programming skills a lot first, it can be hard getting a job in software development. I don't know the situation where you live but most of the software jobs here (Australia) seem to be in the eastern states. Given that, if you can't move interstate for obvious reasons you might find yourself stuck without a job.

[x34cha]

Hey night, I live in the UK so there is some opportunity here I guess, another thing I wanted to ask for those of you who do work in programming and have jobs, why do you work for somebody else and not for yourself, why do you let corporations reap the profit of your code, like that youtube guy, he worked for a business for 4 years and one day had the thought of, why am I letting these guys make money off what I am coding, so he just went, started his own business and sold his programs online, next thing the guy is a millionair and the most crazy aspect of it is that he said he is not even that good of a programmer, so for me it's amazing that people that are god's at programming can want to work for companys/corporations, if stability is the only reason for doing so, I feel that it is a great loss of opportunity to them, however I don't truely understand that situation yet so I'd like to know from anybody who is in that situations why they do work in jobs.

[kareninstructor]

Hey Kevin, I love programming don't get me wrong but I'm 22 and I need a future career, atm I'm working labour and we all know that is not fun, so although I am personally wanting and motivated just because of how cool programming actually is for myself, if it's not going to help me in the long run I have to find something else, that is just why I asked, but as you explain it is worth it, I was watching a video of a guy on youtube who is 25, he has an audi r8 and a house already because he was programming some IT tech support software in VB, I want that.. who doesn't, either way I'm going to follow this through till the end and see what comes from it, thanks for your responses.

Greetings,

That is great that you love to program which is a good sign you are going in the right direction. Don't let money drive you when first starting out, get a entry level developer position after some college then drive forward to higher levels that will then get you more money. Our company is always looking for recently graduated people that will start out a entry level, provide at least $4,000 in training each year. We have a new batch of developers who were IBM iSeries developers that will be given outsourced C# training for a week then pair up with senior developers like myself to continue the learning process.

While in retail selling custom window treatments I realized this was not for me but did not know what career path to choose. My future brother-in-law came to live close by and after a few weeks hanging out with him he asked, do you have a computer? I said no, all they are good for were games and office type work. He came back and said he thought I would be good in IT. After assisting me with acquiring a computer, Microsoft C and Brief programmer editor he spent time teaching me the fundamentals and I was hooked. Spent each night working with him for about an hour then two or three on my own. After about a year of this I left my day job to work at a software retail store for a year, perks were getting free software like Borland C and Nantucket Clipper. Jumped to Nantucket Clipper for a year (same as when first starting) and then landed a job coding in Clipper. There was not one second were I doubted this was the right path for me, I just soaked everything up and never stopped.

I know countless people who thought that a specific path was right for them, went to college for many years then ended up working at places like Mc Donald's because at one point or another lost it, realized it was not right for them. Then there are the ones who graduate but find after a short time the path chosen was not for them. The best developers I have met or worked with are those who had a fire raging inside of them to work out problems not just using code but by other means also.

With that said, keep asking yourself, each time I am in programming mode does it excite me, do you live for the challenge? Someone who wants this will go to all ends of the Earth continually seeking problems, figuring them out, refining logic and code so next time they answer is known. You look at complex code and want to not only try it out but want to know what makes it tick and how can you expand on it.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Hey night, I live in the UK so there is some opportunity here I guess, another thing I wanted to ask for those of you who do work in programming and have jobs, why do you work for somebody else and not for yourself, why do you let corporations reap the profit of your code, like that youtube guy, he worked for a business for 4 years and one day had the thought of, why am I letting these guys make money off what I am coding, so he just went, started his own business and sold his programs online, next thing the guy is a millionair and the most crazy aspect of it is that he said he is not even that good of a programmer, so for me it's amazing that people that are god's at programming can want to work for companys/corporations, if stability is the only reason for doing so, I feel that it is a great loss of opportunity to them, however I don't truely understand that situation yet so I'd like to know from anybody who is in that situations why they do work in jobs.

Nobody profits from my code. Not me, not a corporation, nobody. In fact, if I were to look into it, I'd probably find that I am legally obligated to give away everything I write for free. That last part may be unusual for lots of people, but the first part is not. There are probably a lot of us who don't write commercial software, but write internal line-of-business apps for use by our employer. I would guess that there is FAR more LOB apps than commercial apps by total code written. Probably by a couple orders of magnitude. After all, there are a few million coders in the developed world. If each were to create a program each year, or every two or three years, even, then the number of software titles would be so numerous that you'd be paralyzed with indecision whenever you went to buy any.

So, why don't I go work for myself selling the sofware that I write? I write software to manage certain kinds of fish data. I doubt there is much of a market out there for that. Furthermore, I rather like my job. I like the people I work with, I like the fact that I can go spend a couple weeks in a remote wilderness cabin working with fish (though the toenails on both of my big toes are falling off as a result of my last trip), and I like the copious amounts of vacation time I can accrue. If I went private, I'd have to come up with some kind of software that would make enough money to keep me fed, which wouldn't be easy in the field I'm in. I'd also probably have to work a lot more, because it would all be contract work where if you aren't working you may not be eating (or paying health insurance, since I'm in the US). It wouldn't be high paying, because the field I'm in isn't big money. I also realize that I would feel pretty stressed about whether it would keep going in the future.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Hey night, I live in the UK so there is some opportunity here I guess, another thing I wanted to ask for those of you who do work in programming and have jobs, why do you work for somebody else and not for yourself, why do you let corporations reap the profit of your code, like that youtube guy, he worked for a business for 4 years and one day had the thought of, why am I letting these guys make money off what I am coding, so he just went, started his own business and sold his programs online, next thing the guy is a millionair and the most crazy aspect of it is that he said he is not even that good of a programmer, so for me it's amazing that people that are god's at programming can want to work for companys/corporations, if stability is the only reason for doing so, I feel that it is a great loss of opportunity to them, however I don't truely understand that situation yet so I'd like to know from anybody who is in that situations why they do work in jobs.

Trust me it is not that Simple! becoming a developer is unlikely to turn you into a millionaire, its not impossible just not common.

Firstly to become a millionaire like you say this guy has you need a great idea, be able to spend A LOT of time on it and/or some luck or finally a captive audience. It just doesn't happen to most people.

The reason why most people work for someone else is the Cost and the Risk.

Working for yourself you will need first to write the system (which could take months to years), then you need to go out and find buyers (many developers are just not suited to be salesmen as well). During this time you will have Zero income.

If you go and work for someone else (as most people do) you have a guaranteed income and developers on the whole get paid pretty well.

Also one further point the guys you mentioned worked for someone else for 4 years. During that time he will have learnt a lot, he would probably have not been able to setup his own business without that initial experience.

What i meant by captive audience above is i know a friend of mine who worked for a company designing a marketing system. As this was not there core business they didn't really want to manage this system internally, so he was able to make an arrangement where he setup his own company took the application with him and he arranged a support and maintenance with them. So essentially he cut his risk by starting with a customer already on board.

The only problem with this model is most companies would not have let you take that system that you started developing while employed, with you. This guy got a slice of luck there.

[x34cha]

Trust me it is not that Simple! becoming a developer is unlikely to turn you into a millionaire, its not impossible just not common.

Firstly to become a millionaire like you say this guy has you need a great idea, be able to spend A LOT of time on it and/or some luck or finally a captive audience. It just doesn't happen to most people.

The reason why most people work for someone else is the Cost and the Risk.

Working for yourself you will need first to write the system (which could take months to years), then you need to go out and find buyers (many developers are just not suited to be salesmen as well). During this time you will have Zero income.

If you go and work for someone else (as most people do) you have a guaranteed income and developers on the whole get paid pretty well.

Also one further point the guys you mentioned worked for someone else for 4 years. During that time he will have learnt a lot, he would probably have not been able to setup his own business without that initial experience.

What i meant by captive audience above is i know a friend of mine who worked for a company designing a marketing system. As this was not there core business they did really want to manage this system internally, so he was able to make an arrangement where he setup his own company took the application with him and he arranged a support and maintenance with them. So essentially he cut his risk by starting with a customer already on board.

The only problem with this model is most companies would not have let you take that system that you started developing while employed, with you. This guy got a slice of luck there.

Well ok, but what about if you created a company alongside your job, if it doesn't work out you still have the safety net of your job, the only thing really affecting it is time, and for me personally I would always go for the risk option, to be able to become insanely rich or insanely poor is just part of the fun ^_^ and the best thing is if it doesn't work out the first time theres lots of chances to make it work out, I just don't want to work in a dead end job 9-5 coding for somebody else all my life and the boss reaping all the profits, I want to be the boss and who says I can't?

Them "lucky few" are all people who tried and applied themselves to it



Don't worry guys, I'll be back in a couple years and buy you all a ferrari, any preference on color? hehe

[FunkyDexter]

what about if you created a company alongside your job

Creating a company is easy. Creating a product people want to buy and then actually getting them to part with their cash... that's the hard bit. I've been working on an application for 5 or 6 years now (I've kinda lost track of how long) which I hope I'll take to market one day. There has been no need to set up a company in that time (although I actually did set up a limited company about three years ago when I started contracting but that was only for tax purposes).

So I'd say, certainly go ahead and develop an application if you've got an idea. Than, when you're happy with it you've got a choice, relase it while continuing to work or dive in with both feet. If it's a large application that needs plenty of support and infrastructure then the latter is your only real choice. If it's a small application (e.g. a mobile phone app) then the former is probably a safer choice.

What you don't want to do is quit work and then start writing the application. It can take a surprisingly long time to write even the simplest app and you're going to have to finance yourself through it.



There are only two colours for a Ferrari: Red and The Wrong Colour.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Well ok, but what about if you created a company alongside your job

Well you could do that, you just need to check you contract. Some employers will assert rights to any development you do while employed by them in your contract.

I just don't want to work in a dead end job 9-5 coding for somebody else all my life and the boss reaping all the profits

I don't consider myself in a Dead-end job, i get paid well to do interesting development work. Yes i have bad days but on the whole my job is enjoyable.

I want to be the boss and who says I can't?

There is nothing wrong with that ambition, just make sure your ambition is matched by the effort you will need to put in.

All you need now is an Idea !!!

[techgnome]

Hey night, I live in the UK so there is some opportunity here I guess, another thing I wanted to ask for those of you who do work in programming and have jobs, why do you work for somebody else and not for yourself, why do you let corporations reap the profit of your code, like that youtube guy, he worked for a business for 4 years and one day had the thought of, why am I letting these guys make money off what I am coding, so he just went, started his own business and sold his programs online, next thing the guy is a millionair and the most crazy aspect of it is that he said he is not even that good of a programmer, so for me it's amazing that people that are god's at programming can want to work for companys/corporations, if stability is the only reason for doing so, I feel that it is a great loss of opportunity to them, however I don't truely understand that situation yet so I'd like to know from anybody who is in that situations why they do work in jobs.

I work for someone else because there are aspects of running a business I don't want to deal with. Such as having to drum up business. I'm a programmer, not a business person. Heck, I'm not even management material. Let that be someone else's headache.

Nobody profits from my code. Not me, not a corporation, nobody. In fact, if I were to look into it, I'd probably find that I am legally obligated to give away everything I write for free. That last part may be unusual for lots of people, but the first part is not. There are probably a lot of us who don't write commercial software, but write internal line-of-business apps for use by our employer. I would guess that there is FAR more LOB apps than commercial apps by total code written. Probably by a couple orders of magnitude. After all, there are a few million coders in the developed world. If each were to create a program each year, or every two or three years, even, then the number of software titles would be so numerous that you'd be paralyzed with indecision whenever you went to buy any.

So, why don't I go work for myself selling the sofware that I write? I write software to manage certain kinds of fish data. I doubt there is much of a market out there for that. Furthermore, I rather like my job. I like the people I work with, I like the fact that I can go spend a couple weeks in a remote wilderness cabin working with fish (though the toenails on both of my big toes are falling off as a result of my last trip), and I like the copious amounts of vacation time I can accrue. If I went private, I'd have to come up with some kind of software that would make enough money to keep me fed, which wouldn't be easy in the field I'm in. I'd also probably have to work a lot more, because it would all be contract work where if you aren't working you may not be eating (or paying health insurance, since I'm in the US). It wouldn't be high paying, because the field I'm in isn't big money. I also realize that I would feel pretty stressed about whether it would keep going in the future.

In my case, hopefully it's my company's clients who profit - although they are non-profits. Our software is an enterprise-level constituent management system they use to raise money for their organization. Ok sure, I make a pretty decent paycheck, and the company makes a tidy profit in the process, but in the end it's about the NPs.

Well ok, but what about if you created a company alongside your job, if it doesn't work out you still have the safety net of your job, the only thing really affecting it is time, and for me personally I would always go for the risk option, to be able to become insanely rich or insanely poor is just part of the fun ^_^ and the best thing is if it doesn't work out the first time theres lots of chances to make it work out, I just don't want to work in a dead end job 9-5 coding for somebody else all my life and the boss reaping all the profits, I want to be the boss and who says I can't?

Them "lucky few" are all people who tried and applied themselves to it



Don't worry guys, I'll be back in a couple years and buy you all a ferrari, any preference on color? hehe

Be careful how you go about doing that. Make sure that EVERY RESOURCE you use IS YOURS! The VS I use is licensed to my employer so anything I create with it, belongs to them according to the terms of my employment. Same with the laptop I have at home. It's theirs, so anything I create on it belongs to them. I've seen employers be vehemently strict about that... others not so much as long as you're not competing with them. So as a rule of thumb, I don't embark on any side projects unless I can unequivocally show that all resources involved were my own.

Creating a company is easy. Creating a product people want to buy and then actually getting them to part with their cash... that's the hard bit. I've been working on an application for 5 or 6 years now (I've kinda lost track of how long) which I hope I'll take to market one day. There has been no need to set up a company in that time (although I actually did set up a limited company about three years ago when I started contracting but that was only for tax purposes).

So I'd say, certainly go ahead and develop an application if you've got an idea. Than, when you're happy with it you've got a choice, relase it while continuing to work or dive in with both feet. If it's a large application that needs plenty of support and infrastructure then the latter is your only real choice. If it's a small application (e.g. a mobile phone app) then the former is probably a safer choice.

What you don't want to do is quit work and then start writing the application. It can take a surprisingly long time to write even the simplest app and you're going to have to finance yourself through it.



There are only two colours for a Ferrari: Red and The Wrong Colour.

I thought Ferrari were passe any how. I know I don't want one.

-tg

[FunkyDexter]

Some employers will assert rights to any development you do while employed by them in your contract

That's a really good point and one that should be written mile high in capitals. I know a guy who fell prey to that. In the end his employers let him keep ownership of the work he'd done outside of hours but it was a bun-fight and I think he had to pay them a lump of cash.

I thought Ferrari were passe any how

True, I'd go for an Aston. There are only two colours of Aston: British Racing Green and The Wrong Colour.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Dilbert covered those employee contract clauses in a strip that included the phrase, "turbo-mooning".

Unlike some of the other people in this thread, I'm not well paid by any standards except for quality of life and work, which most people envy. One of the features of my job is that there are no Intellectual Property controls in place of any sort. I may end up changing that, though. I've been working on a project for 5 or 6 years now (I've kinda lost track of how long) which I hope I'll take to market one day (I swear that I'm either some kind of clone of FD, or he's reading my mail). Actually, it wasn't 5 or 6 years continuously. Depending on how you look at it, it's either been 17 years, or about 4, two of which were VERY part time.

I also don't really expect to take it to market, but after a bit of research into other products in the arena, I found that there was exactly 1, which was run by a company with a single employee/owner (and his name is part of the name of the product). It makes for an interesting case in point, as he claims international sales, and has been in business for a couple years. He also has a stated net earnings of slighly less than $30K, and has recently made moves that suggest that he's decided that the earning potential just isn't there. So, there's a guy who had an idea for a piece of software in an empty niche, which he wrote and sold on his own, as you are proposing, only to find that it certainly didn't allow him to buy a Ferrari.

[techgnome]

Something tells me that if you're driving a Ferrari then you're not a developer. And if you're a developer, you're not driving a Ferrari. I don't know of any developer out there that drives a Ferrari or anything close to it.

Also, if you're in it (development) for the money, you're in the wrong career.


-tg

[x34cha]

Something tells me that if you're driving a Ferrari then you're not a developer. And if you're a developer, you're not driving a Ferrari. I don't know of any developer out there that drives a Ferrari or anything close to it.

Also, if you're in it (development) for the money, you're in the wrong career.


-tg

I wouldn't say just for the money, more along the lines of something I enjoy and will make me money, been a computer nerd all my life so it surely beats working in a labour job for me ^_^

[FunkyDexter]

I swear that I'm either some kind of clone of FD, or he's reading my mail

I'm reading your mail. The test results were positive. You should inform your ex.

I also don't really expect to take it to market

I never really expecetd to takle mine to market (it was mostly meant to be a platform to learn with) but it's actually starting to look like I may complete it. The thing is, I haven't really got the first clue about how I'd market it. I can see a couple of channels but mpostly I think it'd be about getting it on line and then throwing some pretty large chunks of money at advertising it. And then I might find that nobody cares. Even when you've got a completed product the risk doesn't go away.

more along the lines of something I enjoy and will make me money

Then you donm't really need to go self employed. And realistically, if you do, you'll probably spend alot less time actually programming. My advice would be to work for someone else, at lesat for a few years. If you can develop your own idea in parallel then, great, do so. Once you've been in the industry for a couple of years you'll be much better able to asses the risks of going self employed and if you still think it's for you then definitely go for it.

I think there's a huge amount of satisfaction to be gained from working for yourself. But there's an equal amount of dissatisfaction you could get from being flat broke.

[jayinthe813]

I just don't want to work in a dead end job 9-5 coding for somebody else all my life and the boss reaping all the profits

Think about *HOW* you should define dead end job. IMO the only dead end job is one where you have no end goal defined for yourself, and that's more on you than the actual job. I am currently in a role to deliver internal solutions (no formal training, only books). I really enjoy what I do because I spend 100% of my day solving problems and fixing things that don't work. I don't make near the average developer salary (since I am employed as an analyst not as a developer, the company therefore reaps those profits). This could be seen as a dead-end job as there is nowhere for me to go other than to leave or post out of this position for a regular developer job.

I liken myself right now to a sponge. I am trying to soak up as much knowledge and experience as I can. I hope when I post (what I think are!) answers on here someone else comes along and corrects me or shows a better way to do it. I almost feel like I am cheating the game at my job: I am getting paid to learn anything and everything and at the same time implement real-world solutions. The kicker is, I will be able to take this knowledge with me. Even if somewhere else doesn't use the same technologies, its generally the same application of concepts and process, learning the syntax I think becomes somewhat trivial. This is my end goal.

In regards to motivation, if programming is for you, you will not need 'motivation'. It's this crazy, innate desire to want to solve a problem or provide a solution. I think as kevininstructor said above its "passion", less "paycheck"

[SJWhiteley]

I drive a Fiat. It's just a Ferrari with a different badge

Don't think about the money. Or, rather, don't think about someone else's money. You will never, ever make it anywhere by doing so.

Also, there's nothing wrong with a 9-5 job (do they even exist, any more?). You have to consider why yo go to work. The vast majority of people earn a paycheck - that's the only purpose of work, so they can be not-at-work doing things they want. There is really nothing wrong with that at all; it is what people do.

As far as having your own company - it's the old Bill Gates syndrome. Pretty much no-one quits their day job, starts a company, gets rich. It is not a model or recipe for success. While there are examples, you could put them in a single room and still have spec to swing a cat. I'll further add that if you sealed up that room and buried it in concrete, the world will still turn without those people (please don't dwell on this morbidity - it's just to make a point).

The point is, starting a company is easy, running a company is hard. You will also now have 2 jobs - you have to both run the company and do whatever it is you think will make you rich. Don't let it put you off, but be prepared to do things you don't want to do, and have no skills to do. Perhaps running a company is the hidden talent you have? Who knows!

You have to try things. No one will give you that dream job, or a bucket of cash regularly because 'you are who you are'. While I don't believe in luck, the phrase 'you make your own luck' is quite apt.

As a last note, modern society has a lot of distractions: you are very young, and were not around when 'modern conveniences' didn't exist. This isn't one of those 'back in my day, we had to walk up hill both ways' type stories, but, the fact that there is so much to do that you can spend your whole live entertained by stuff, consuming stuff, with no effort at all. Computer games, you tube, xbox, cable tv, netflix, blogs, facebook, etc, etc. Don't revolve your life around consuming these things. You can easily spend 4 to 5 hours a day on this, more on the weekend. 40 hours or more a week. We all like our down time, but 40 hours is a lot of hours: if the 40 hours at work doesn't motivate you, use at least some of the next 40 hours to do something or learn something. Remember, learning you are not good at something can be just as valuable as learning you are good at something.

[kareninstructor]

As a last note, modern society has a lot of distractions: you are very young, and were not around when 'modern conveniences' didn't exist.

Good point, I started in programming with Brief editor and no web access but did not experience say punch card style of programming. Concerning computer games, have one on my iPad, solitaire, utilize utube for teaching self-defense, no xbox, no Netflix. My weekends usually has me teaching defensive tactics, moderating C#, VB.NET and data forums over on Microsoft forums and spending a good deal of time with close friends.

Modern society does have a lot of perks and rely heavily on them which I enjoy but at the same time realize it can all go to crap in a second... lights go out and never come back on, Ebola spreads out of control etc. Firearms and edge tools are looked at by many as taboo where when I was growing up many of us brought out 22 rifle to school and everyone had a pocket knife.

[SJWhiteley]

Ha, don't get me wrong: having earned a degree before the internet was born, I wonder how on earth we did things prior to Google.

But we do live in a savage world. We tend to forget, and no amount of civilization can change that.

[FunkyDexter]

lights go out and never come back on, Ebola spreads out of control

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!