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Thread: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

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    Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Leaving the political considerations out of it...is the IRS claim a hard drive crash "lost" possibly incriminating emails plausible to you? Based on what I've seen over the years I would say yes. I worked on a system for Lockheed-Martin where the back up mechanism was never properly tested and the first time it was needed is when we found out the data couldn't be retrieved because the formatting was all wrong. At GTE of Florida a backup system for billing failed when it was needed. It was written to save the overhead of the IBM methodology but did work at crunch time. Those were private businesses...

    Now consider that, in my opinion, most government IT systems are extremely outdated; I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. It may be it does and we just don't hear about it.

    Granted the timing is VERY suspicious and the cause "accidental" versus bad practices, however, I can really see it happening based on my IT experience without it being a conspiracy. In fact I think it would be harder to keep the lid on what it would take to make that happen then if it was an "accident".

    As a side note I thought it was humorous a politician on the committee reviewing all this practically called the IRS director a liar over this. A politician calling someone a liar...That is the classic "pot calling the kettle black".

    Does anyone remember when the tapes concerning the Exxon Valdez got erased? All that happened, the way I remember it, was the poor operator that loaded the tapes got fired.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Jun 21st, 2014 at 09:23 AM.
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    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Eeeh.... I've had crashes before... plenty of times... but something was always recoverable. The only time nothing could be recovered was because there was physical damage to the drive, but even that was an extreme case. So is it plausable? Sure... but I'm not convinced I believe it in this case. I'm also skeptical of most things the gov't says and I'm not exactly a fan of the IRS either... so take it for what it's worth (which is about $0.005 after the IRS gets a hold of my $0.02).

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    It's certainly plausible, but being plausible doesn't say anythin one way or the other about whether or not it is true.
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    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Well, the way I understand it, it was her computer that crashed... so... what? there's no server copies? That's why I don't put a whole lot trust in the "oops, we lost them" excuse. They're not trying hard enough to recover them.

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Well, the way I understand it, it was her computer that crashed... so... what? there's no server copies? That's why I don't put a whole lot trust in the "oops, we lost them" excuse. They're not trying hard enough to recover them.

    -tg
    Exactly. They are either lying, grossly incompetent, hopelessly corrupt, or they think we're all pretty stupid.

    I firmly believe it's all of the above. And the Dems on the committee have signaled that they are ready to circle the wagons to defend this crap.

    Edit: and it's not just one key person's hard drive. It was six key people who not only suffered total unrecoverable hard drive failure, but those hard drives were subsequently destroyed.
    Last edited by homer13j; Jun 21st, 2014 at 06:35 PM.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    I do a lot of contract and consulting work, and I can tell you that I have not yet seen a single case where requesting that a server backup be reloaded has ever worked at any of these client customers. However mainframe backups are almost universally reliable to restore barring backup media failure.

    I suspect the answer is quite simple: poor PC/LAN IT staff skills. Some vendor set up the backup system and though the loading dock smokers crackberry texters (the self-styled "IT professionals") were trained they absorbed and retained ZERO.

    It isn't just backup systems, their custodianship of other systems like application license trackers is just as bad. I've been on two sites for completely unrelated projects where management needed to pull a license inventory because they were getting audited by a vendor. They called me in to crack the books and figure out how get the info from the license servers because the in-house bozos were useless.

    At some point we are going to realize that these barely scraped through high school nepots are a blight on the economy.


    The question I have though is whether the issue here is backup or archival. It takes a lot more storage to maintain generational archives so you are lucky if a site does anything more than keep a week's worth of daily backups and maybe one or two monthly backups, each of which is just a snapshot of a point in time.

    Backups are only meant to restore the state at the point of backup, not to be a time machine you can use to retrieve deleted files after changing your mind.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    At some point we are going to realize that these barely scraped through high school nepots are a blight on the economy.
    They MADE your personal economy. If they were all competent, you wouldn't have been called in. Had you been called in anyways, you wouldn't have been able to charge much of anything.

    Better still, how many times were you NOT called in because the internal folks got the job done? In other words, what is the incidence of incompetence? If you were called in to only 2% of cases where the same kind of service was needed, that would suggest that the vast majority are fine. If those two calls were 100% of the population, then that would suggest rampant incompetence.

    Two calls means nothing unless you know what the population size is. Everybody knows that there are people who don't know how to do any particular task. That's why you have a job. You shouldn't be critical of them, you should be thanking them....unless you hate your job, but then you should find something else to do.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    As an aside, if there was a hard drive crash, considering the chronic bureaucracy involved, there should be a paper-trail from the IT department regarding the repair/replacement attempt at a failed hard drive. This would be supporting evidence that a hard drive failure occurred. Doesn't explain the loss of e-mails, however.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    It's certainly plausible, but being plausible doesn't say anything one way or the other about whether or not it is true.
    Doesn't that pretty much go without saying?
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Incompetence and big government seems to go hand in hand. There is a bit of a double standard in the media. The health care roll out was disastrous and they spent weeks driving that home and yet for some reason it seems incomprehensible that there would be incompetence handling an email application.

    The timing is what really stacks up against the IRS. I remember Richard Nixon and the gaps in the infamous tapes. Street smarts would make me think "yeah, the hard drive crashed, tell me another one". My experience with the government lets me think that people are on staff the would me fired in the public sector and it could have been an "accident". As someone mentioned it would make sense that if there was a crash there would be some kind of IT support trail that it happened and was reacted to.

    I'd love for a whistle blower to step up and let us know one way or the other. In the meantime, based on life experience - not any facts I have, I would say the IRS story is BS. It is somewhat insulting they would expect us to believe that without providing proof.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Doesn't that pretty much go without saying?
    Well, yeah, but it's much easier to state the obvious than to state the non-obvious. It's kind of relaxing that way.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Incompetence and big government seems to go hand in hand. There is a bit of a double standard in the media. The health care roll out was disastrous and they spent weeks driving that home and yet for some reason it seems incomprehensible that there would be incompetence handling an email application.

    The timing is what really stacks up against the IRS. I remember Richard Nixon and the gaps in the infamous tapes. Street smarts would make me think "yeah, the hard drive crashed, tell me another one". My experience with the government lets me think that people are on staff the would me fired in the public sector and it could have been an "accident". As someone mentioned it would make sense that if there was a crash there would be some kind of IT support trail that it happened and was reacted to.

    I'd love for a whistle blower to step up and let us know one way or the other. In the meantime, based on life experience - not any facts I have, I would say the IRS story is BS. It is somewhat insulting they would expect us to believe that without providing proof.
    I don't agree. When it comes to incompetence, I don't think it has anything to do with government, and feel that it is a disservice to say so. The health care fiasco was certainly a fiasco. The code that is held up as the highest standard of reliable code is also government code (that which runs the space shuttle was generally held as the gold standard in the studies I have seen on code quality). In both cases, of course, the government was contracting the work out, as it did with the air traffic control software that was a miserable shamble.

    There are plenty of other examples, both in private and public sector. In fact, a quick search on studies of software failure rates shows that the situation is fairly dismal, and larger companies tend to do worse than smaller companies. The IRS is NOT a smaller company, by any measure, so you shouldn't be surprised that it has some glorious failures.

    One odd example was that when the Bush administration went after all the phone records in the US, most companies complied without asking for a warrant. One company asked for a warrant: Qwest. Some people thought that was responsible of them. However, I had dealt with Qwest quite a bit, and they NEVER got anything right the first time, and often not the second, either. It wasn't once or twice, it was every single time I talked to them. When I add it up, the screw-ups ended up being in my favor by a some amount, but the fact that they ALWAYS messed things up first made me think that the reason they asked the government for a warrant wasn't because they wanted to do the right thing, but because they knew they couldn't comply and were stalling for time.

    As for proof, what would there be? If they have an IT staff that is floundering, do you really expect that their one area of excellence is in thoroughly documenting their floundering? More likely, they suck at that even worse.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Now consider that, in my opinion, most government IT systems are extremely outdated

    really???? Im from the UK and just finished a 6 month job in Westminster that cost the tax payers £500,000 pound plus. I bet there servers/machines are just as costly

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    When it comes to incompetence, I don't think it has anything to do with government, and feel that it is a disservice to say so.
    Likewise I have to disagree with you but I will allow the exception of NASA. The phrase "good enough for government work" sums it up. It has been my experience that career government workers and projects are generally sub standard and the private sector is a standard bearer. Of course there are exceptions but I think most government workers are just collecting paychecks. The project work is slipshod and would not be tolerated in the private sector or would go broke. When it is crunch time the government turns to the private sector for quality work.

    In deference to the many skilled and dedicated government workers I take my hat off to you. The problem is the system not the individual. It tolerates and almost encourages sub standard work.

    A man was eating at a diner and watching some government workers across the street. One would dig a hole, move down several yards, and dig another hole. Another government worker was following behind him filling in the holes. When the man was leaving the diner he stopped and asked them what they were doing. They said they were on a highway beautification project and due to government cutbacks the man that planted the trees was laid off.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ident View Post
    Now consider that, in my opinion, most government IT systems are extremely outdated

    really???? Im from the UK and just finished a 6 month job in Westminster that cost the tax payers £500,000 pound plus. I bet there servers/machines are just as costly
    Money is not the issue here. A government site here have summed up the cost of 1.5m Euros while the actual cost wouldn't be over 10.000 Euros.
    Oh and i hate IRS.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I don't agree. When it comes to incompetence, I don't think it has anything to do with government, and feel that it is a disservice to say so. The health care fiasco was certainly a fiasco. The code that is held up as the highest standard of reliable code is also government code (that which runs the space shuttle was generally held as the gold standard in the studies I have seen on code quality). In both cases, of course, the government was contracting the work out, as it did with the air traffic control software that was a miserable shamble. ...
    The old-NASA situation was a different beast. Basically, run as a private sector with the guidance of a bureaucratic system - i.e. procedural. "Here's a budget, make s**t happen."

    These days, it pays to fail, unfortunately. Can't get stuff done? Need more money! Couple that with so-called 'inequalities', we have generated a system designed to make everything equal - a noble cause, of course, but the reality devolves to the lowest common denominator.

    My mother in law worked for the VA system: she's now retired (in disgust). As a supervisor, in charge of promotions, she was not allowed to pick any one of the top three candidates for a job, as it didn't promote a diverse workforce or promote opportunity for all candidates.

    Remember, this year, government revenue is at an all time high - yet the government continues to fail to do the job it is charged to do: money is not the problem, and not the solution (indeed, government contracts are highly lucrative - if you are a minority, or female owned company: otherwise, you need to bribe some bureaucrats and/or politicians.
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    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Part of the problem is that there is also this atmosphere of "use or lose" ... you use all of your budget, or you lose it in the next year... goes in hand with the "Need more money" comment above. If I have a budget of $200,000 and I get the job done for $125,000 I run the risk of losing that extra $75,000 because clearly I don't need it.

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    So giving the extra unwanted cash to the poor is kinda of, passe, right? Poor people, pfff.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    It's certainly an issue. In some companies (though not all), revenue is a measure of success. The larger the company, the more detached the individual is from success. A sufficiently large company can have somebody who fills the coffee pots. Does that contribute to the bottom line? Not very directly, but then again, neither does the work of any single programmer if the company is large enough.

    In the case of the government (which I am a part of, I might add), there isn't a direct revenue stream. What there IS is a whole lot of customer feedback. People scream about potholes, people scream about gas prices, and people scream about taxes. The state of the roads is a mix of the results of those forces. For example, I occasionally work with a federal hatchery which has twice the staffing of state or private hatcheries. Why is that? Because well-intentioned reforms have happened over and over to the point where there has to be people whos job it is to do the paperwork necessary to comply with all the requests. When somebody doesn't like something, they make the hatchery document things in greater detail, and there's always another person with another complaint about a different issue. It's not based on cost effectiveness, it's based on a desire to make sure that no public employee gets away with one dime that they didn't earn. So, they are regulated to death to ensure that nobody wastes taxpayer dollars, and it ends up costing twice what it needs to.

    Since there is no revenue, only congressional mandates, there is no cost/benefit measure for the hatchery. They are providing a service that lots of people really enjoy, but that's not why they are doing it. They are doing it as a political trade-off for allowing a different group to despoil a river. One group wanted to wipe out fish, a different group made their living off the fish, so congress came up with a compromise: The first group gets to do what they want, while some hatcheries make up for any loss to the second group. Since everybody gets to tug on congress, and congress does respond to every tug once it reaches a certain level, you end up with results like this. There is no revenue, it's just representative government at work.
    Last edited by Shaggy Hiker; Jun 23rd, 2014 at 10:18 AM.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Wait, if they lost emails on 6 client computers because of hard drive crashes then surely its easy to recover data from the drives and shouldnt be destroyed without some type of red tape approval.

    Plus, why are they looking at the client computers for the emails? Stored in a pst file and thats not the issue, look at their email server or isp as every email is stored/saved, it just takes red tape to request a copy.

    Look at any of the government fiascos that were uncovered by looking at emails sent on their email servers. Why look at the end users system? Its a coverup and a lie just like the cake
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    RobDog, I think most technical people are aware of this glaring hole in the argument. I have yet to see any technical representative on the stand to legitimize or debunk the argument (maybe they have, but it just isn't news...)
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    Hyperactive Member Maven's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Incompetence and big government seems to go hand in hand. There is a bit of a double standard in the media. The health care roll out was disastrous and they spent weeks driving that home and yet for some reason it seems incomprehensible that there would be incompetence handling an email application.
    People's ideology influences opinions more than technical readings.

    Hard drives crash all the time. It may not have been backed up for various reasons. We can secure against this kind of loss; however, it's very expensive to replicate everything.


    Finally, this whole story looks to me like generated rhetorical for political purposes.
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    Hyperactive Member Maven's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by SJWhiteley View Post
    The old-NASA situation was a different beast. Basically, run as a private sector with the guidance of a bureaucratic system - i.e. procedural. "Here's a budget, make s**t happen."

    These days, it pays to fail, unfortunately. Can't get stuff done? Need more money! Couple that with so-called 'inequalities', we have generated a system designed to make everything equal - a noble cause, of course, but the reality devolves to the lowest common denominator.

    My mother in law worked for the VA system: she's now retired (in disgust). As a supervisor, in charge of promotions, she was not allowed to pick any one of the top three candidates for a job, as it didn't promote a diverse workforce or promote opportunity for all candidates.

    Remember, this year, government revenue is at an all time high - yet the government continues to fail to do the job it is charged to do: money is not the problem, and not the solution (indeed, government contracts are highly lucrative - if you are a minority, or female owned company: otherwise, you need to bribe some bureaucrats and/or politicians.

    America's high inequality is an economic fact. In addition, the system is not designed to make everything equal as the high inequality is a counter for such an argument.

    Finally, tax revenue should be measured relative to GDP and not nominal dollars.
    But Bob Williams of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center said it doesn’t make much sense to talk about revenues only in nominal dollars. That doesn’t account for growth in population, inflation or the growth of the economy. Say, for example, the population doubled, Williams said. You would expect the amount of revenues to double as well. So revenues would increase without the need to raise tax rates. But spending would have to go up to provide services to twice as many people. The same is true for growth in inflation and growth in income. That’s why most government numbers crunchers prefer to look at revenues as a percentage of the gross domestic product, which accounts for those factors.
    http://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/revenue-reach/

    Federal revenues increased by $147 billion (or 6 percent)
    in 2012, and they are projected to grow by $259 billion
    (or 11 percent) in 2013. If current laws remain the same,
    CBO estimates, revenues in 2013 will equal $2.7 trillion,
    or 16.9 percent of GDP, higher than the 15.8 percent of
    GDP recorded in 2012 and the highest percentage since
    2008, although still below the average of about 18 percent of GDP over the past 40 years.
    http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/c...ok.pdf#page=14


    In a basic nutshell, this is ideology talking. In my opinion, the only viable approach to politics is to limit oneself to being a fact finder.

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    PowerPoster SJWhiteley's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    You can't spend GDP. There is an in-grained need to compare everything to GDP. While it is a measure, it is intangible. So even though revenue in real dollars is high, by comparing it to GDP, it is now low, and not a good thing? Why cannot GDP be high and revenues drop as a proportion of GDP be seen as a good thing? An increase in GDP does NOT mean government revenues should increase as percentage - this is a bad measurement.

    Economists and weathermen graduated from the same university.

    The misnomer is the 'doubling growth' situation: government does not supply in proportion to population - rather, should not, and that is the problem. Government does not supply water, electricity, bread, etc. which demand increases in proportion to population. Further, we must distinguish between federal revenue and local/state revenue.

    Consider, a simplistic example, a community population with specific community demands (fire, roads, police, etc.) Should the 'GDP' of this community increase, the demands remain the same. But we now have to consider where that GDP comes from; it may result in an increase in population (manufacturing, services, etc.) in which case demand increases, but the tax base also increases. But note that demands are not directly related to GDP, only the nature of GDP. So, should GDP rise, and demand and revenue stay the same - thus lowering the percentage of revenue to GDP, is this a 'good' measure of the three variables?

    The telling comment, though, is this: "That’s why most government numbers crunchers prefer to look at revenues as a percentage of the gross domestic product, which accounts for those factors". A rise in GDP, would indicate a drop in revenue for the government, regardless of the nature of the GDP increase.

    Put it this way, governments service a population, not a GDP.

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  25. #25
    Ex-Super Mod RobDog888's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Also whomever goes up against the IRS' story will surely get audited next year lol
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    I've got an awful lot of bad things to say about one party of this hearing but I am doing my best to leave politics out of it.
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    I've got an awful lot of bad things to say about one party of this hearing but I am doing my best to leave politics out of it.
    Darn...I thought for sure someone would bite and say something like 'you already did" or "too late for that". Then I could have said "so, sue me"
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    Lively Member homer13j's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Seems kind of silly to insist we leave politics out of the discussion when it was the rampant abuse of political power that created this whole sordid mess in the first place.
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  29. #29

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by homer13j View Post
    Seems kind of silly to insist we leave politics out of the discussion when it was the rampant abuse of political power that created this whole sordid mess in the first place.
    That sounds so very Republican. Take the truth "Leaving the political considerations out of it" and turning it into " insist we leave politics out of the discussion". That would make Spokesmen of House Boner proud. Nothing like twisting facts to suit unjustified attacks for your, whatever, ends...

    Seriously and please don't take that last line the wrong way. It was meant to be a humorous cut but not at you directly. I'm on the liberal side of politics but rabid against republicans. Well, not all republicans, just the people they voted into office. It is best I don't get into politics here but that is just me. Have at it if you want.

    I won't participate anymore, in a political sense, then this post. So take your best shot

    I don't want banned
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  30. #30
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Tyson, you started the thread, commenting on an issue that is specifically political. But I think you feel that you must take a 'liberal' side and align against the prosecution, the Republicans, because they are Republicans.

    Over the past few years, this polarization is quite readily apparent, ever since we voted in a black President. The voting along party lines, regardless of the vote, is has leaked up so far, that the independent government agencies are becoming tools of an executive political agenda.

    Even as a liberal (typically associated with the Democrat party), I really hope that you see this happening, and want to stop it before the major elections. While I cannot predict what will happen in 2014 and 2016, if, what the Democrats believe of the Republicans, there is a distinct possibility that the Republicans will be in power, with the very same control over the government branches as the current administration. I don't think you want that, and while I'm a republican, I know full well that executive dictatorial control over the federal agencies only works out bad for the people the legislative branch of government represents.

    While we can disagree what is meant by being 'best served', the ability for the executive branch to actively use government agencies for political actions is abhorrent.
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  31. #31

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by SJWhiteley View Post
    Tyson, you started the thread, commenting on an issue that is specifically political. But I think you feel that you must take a 'liberal' side and align against the prosecution, the Republicans, because they are Republicans.

    Over the past few years, this polarization is quite readily apparent, ever since we voted in a black President. The voting along party lines, regardless of the vote, is has leaked up so far, that the independent government agencies are becoming tools of an executive political agenda.

    Even as a liberal (typically associated with the Democrat party), I really hope that you see this happening, and want to stop it before the major elections. While I cannot predict what will happen in 2014 and 2016, if, what the Democrats believe of the Republicans, there is a distinct possibility that the Republicans will be in power, with the very same control over the government branches as the current administration. I don't think you want that, and while I'm a republican, I know full well that executive dictatorial control over the federal agencies only works out bad for the people the legislative branch of government represents.

    While we can disagree what is meant by being 'best served', the ability for the executive branch to actively use government agencies for political actions is abhorrent.
    That was articulate and well spoken. Thanks!


    Since I'm not going to rant against any party I will comment. In my lifetime I have never seen the government so dysfunctional. And yes this may be about the future in a number of ways. There is a good chance there is no stopping the democrats from winning the white house in 2016. What is going on now may be in preparation for that.

    Tyson, you started the thread, commenting on an issue that is specifically political. But I think you feel that you must take a 'liberal' side and align against the prosecution, the Republicans, because they are Republicans.
    I have to disagree. My dislike of the republicans goes much deeper and farther back than that. Not so much for their platform but for what they do once elected. Like all of us we are defined by our actions; not what we say.

    While we can disagree what is meant by being 'best served', the ability for the executive branch to actively use government agencies for political actions is abhorrent.
    I don't believe that has been proved has it? I mean back to the president. Yes agencies selectively singled out the other parties but that happens regardless of what party is and power and goes way back.

    Here is what I see happening in my crystal ball...the republicans have congress locked up for the near future via gerrymandering. As is traditional in the second term of a president the opposing party wins midterm elections so I think the republicans will also get the senate. I don't think the republicans have a chance to take the white house because they have to swing so far to the right to get the nomination and there isn't time to get back to the center. That lets Hillary in the door. To sum it up...if the republicans don't get enough senate seats to override a veto then a year and a half of the same tired old dysfunctional government to go. Then it starts all over again in 2016.

    I would LOVE to see a strong centrist third party…
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Jul 1st, 2014 at 06:23 AM.
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  32. #32
    Lively Member homer13j's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    That sounds so very Republican. Take the truth "Leaving the political considerations out of it" and turning it into " insist we leave politics out of the discussion". That would make Spokesmen of House Boner proud. Nothing like twisting facts to suit unjustified attacks for your, whatever, ends...

    Seriously and please don't take that last line the wrong way. It was meant to be a humorous cut but not at you directly...
    I hope that someday you receive the help you need.
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  33. #33
    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    I would LOVE to see a strong centrist third party…
    It's not as strong as the two main parties, but it is growing. In recent years, I've been getting more involved with the Libertarian Party. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative, smaller government, lower taxes. some places it's been harder to gain a foothold, but in other places, it's been doing quite well. Neither Dems or Repubs like it, as it sucks the base from both sides.

    -tg
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  34. #34

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by homer13j View Post
    I hope that someday you receive the help you need.
    Bless you
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  35. #35

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    It's not as strong as the two main parties, but it is growing. In recent years, I've been getting more involved with the Libertarian Party. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative, smaller government, lower taxes. some places it's been harder to gain a foothold, but in other places, it's been doing quite well. Neither Dems or Repubs like it, as it sucks the base from both sides.

    -tg
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  36. #36
    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    That's because Nader and Perot are ...[redacted to comply with AUS]... and really did more harm than good for the LP... I'm not sure they ever really reflected what the LP is about. It's a lot better now than it was then.

    -tg
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  37. #37

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    That's because Nader and Perot are ...[redacted to comply with AUS]... and really did more harm than good for the LP... I'm not sure they ever really reflected what the LP is about. It's a lot better now than it was then.

    -tg
    I didn't mean to imply they were part of the party.
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  38. #38
    Hyperactive Member Vladamir's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Politically, I'm for the two-party system. One on Friday and one on Saturday.

    Now about those missing emails....there is no way the emails were lost. She either sent them or received them from someone which means at the very least the chance that a copy is out there is about 100%. And if I understand it correctly, she was using a system where the emails may have been cached on her hard drive, but they were certainly stored on a server as well. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Mostly because we know all Presidents dating back to Truman used the IRS to attack their enemies. And they are claiming that not a smidgen of corruption was involved. And that's because they believe the public is a bunch of morons who believe whatever we're told. We will never get to the truth but even a moron knows what the truth is. They are guilty as sin...all of them.

    Oh, and BTW, I invented email.

  39. #39

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladamir View Post
    Politically, I'm for the two-party system. One on Friday and one on Saturday.

    Now about those missing emails....there is no way the emails were lost. She either sent them or received them from someone which means at the very least the chance that a copy is out there is about 100%. And if I understand it correctly, she was using a system where the emails may have been cached on her hard drive, but they were certainly stored on a server as well. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Mostly because we know all Presidents dating back to Truman used the IRS to attack their enemies. And they are claiming that not a smidgen of corruption was involved. And that's because they believe the public is a bunch of morons who believe whatever we're told. We will never get to the truth but even a moron knows what the truth is. They are guilty as sin...all of them.

    Oh, and BTW, I invented email.
    Someone is not keeping up with current events. The emails that:

    She either sent them or received them from someone which means at the very least the chance that a copy is out there is about 100%.
    Were gathered up and given to the inquisition. I agree with the rest of what you said. Especially the two parties.
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  40. #40

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    Re: Is the IRS story about the harddrive crash plausible to you?

    I guess I let my negativity get the better of me sometimes. This proves our parties can come together:

    "The National Journal reported on Monday that Republican and Democratic members of the House Ethics Committee quietly came together to agree that lawmakers do not have to report free trips they take on their personal financial disclosure forms."

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/congr...-take-20140630
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