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  1. #241
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Did you run out of arguments so you had to resort to the old "The framework is big" statement? From what I understand with .NET Native(discussed on Page 1 of this thread!) will be getting rid of that argument too.
    The VB6 runtime was no bed of roses either. I got complaints from people in the past about having to install the runtime to use VB6 apps. These were people who were used to using tools written in C++, most of which didn't require runtime installation. Also, QuickBasic didn't even need a runtime. It was statically linked into the EXE. Talking about the "big framework" is really a stupid argument against .Net because you're not really building a case for VB6 but rather a case for C++, BASICA, QuickBasic.

    Point I'm making is that "big" is relative. The VB6 runtime might be small or an insignificant hassle to a VB6 developer but there are people who would consider it just as annoying as the hassle that comes with the .Net Framework. I've experienced this as I've said.
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  2. #242
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    @Niya,
    I had to use .NET myself to wrap something only available in the dark side. It works, but it takes forever the first time I call the library.
    You are right about C++, but there was a reason for VB6 success: simplicity.

  3. #243
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    C++ is simple. ASM now, that's a different story. Then again, C++ wasn't simple for me whenever I first studied it. Neither was VB.Net. Then again, that's will all the languages I've learned in the past 3 years. I just had to put forth a little bit of effort in order to learn that language.

    Let me give you an example. I'm currently working on a compiler. I'm initially writing everything in VB.Net so that I have something to go off of, but I will rewrite in C++. This is because C++ is better for string processing/manipulation(much better!). However, I'm not going to write my IDE in C++, I'm going to write it in VB.Net. Because VB.Net is better for that job.

  4. #244
    Addicted Member 3com's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    I think c++ is better for console app.

  5. #245
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Rocha View Post
    ...You are right about C++, but there was a reason for VB6 success: simplicity.
    This is the reason why people dont want to get off of it. They are too lazy to challenge themselves just a little bit and learn something new.
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  6. #246
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Rocha View Post
    So relevant and right to the point. You even know what matters and how MS thinks internally. I'm impressed
    Oddly enough, that may not be far off. I happen to be related to the guy who called the meeting that ended VB6. He told me about it a few years ago. It really is just internal politics, just like every other issue: Lots of people tugging in various directions and the end result is the sum of all those vectors.
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  7. #247
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Rocha View Post
    PS: Like many others you keep saying that .NET is a language, but it isn't. It's a bloated "framework", just like women bags.
    Oh...THAT explains why .NET is so popular.

    Let me get my hands on a bit more .NET. Yo, Niya, show us a bit more .NET!!
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  9. #249
    Super Moderator RobDog888's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Oddly enough, that may not be far off. I happen to be related to the guy who called the meeting that ended VB6. He told me about it a few years ago. It really is just internal politics, just like every other issue: Lots of people tugging in various directions and the end result is the sum of all those vectors.
    Oh so its YOUR fault!
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  10. #250
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Let me just go off and modify this old VB6 app....seriously, I now have to change a VB6 app, and it's this threads fault!

    This is really an argument for VB6 never changing. This app hasn't really been changed much, but I can use an unchanged version of the VB6 IDE and know full well that there's no patches, or anything to update. It just runs.

    That's the way I like it. VB6 is locked in and NOT GOING TO CHANGE. No updates and no surprises.

    (Actually, I think I'm going to back-heel that little VB6 project to a minion...if I can find one that can do the job. It's all .NET this and .NET that...)
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  11. #251
    Loquacious User Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    The level of commenting on the VB6 polls has dropped away to nothing. It's hard to get any new vitriol out of those threads anymore. I'm feeling listless (my list has been disposed). Carlos had a good post in the new poll thread, but he's the only one to post recently. Everybody still wants something different out of VB6, but that's nothing new. There was one new suggestion in the old petition, which was to use Access and VBA in place of VB6. The only cons they noted were....pretty much everything Carlos wants out of VB6. Not a show stopper to the person who suggested that approach, but a total non-starter for others.
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  12. #252
    Addicted Member Witis's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Who thought the .net framework was a good idea?
    All men have an inherent right to life, the right to self determination including freedom from forced or compulsory labour, a right to hold opinions and the freedom of expression, and the right to a fair trial and freedom from torture. Be aware that these rights are universal and inalienable (cannot be given, taken or otherwise transferred or removed) although you do risk losing the aforementioned rights should you fail to uphold them e.g Charles Taylor; United Nations sources: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/, http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Professional...ages/CCPR.aspx. Also Charles I was beheaded on the 30th of January of 1649 for trying to replace parliamentary democracy with an absolute monarchy, the same should happen to Dr Phil and Stephen Fry; source: http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...ute-Monarchism.

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  13. #253
    WiggleWiggle dclamp's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Witis View Post
    Who thought the .net framework was a good idea?
    Jesus. Otherwise he wouldn't have written about it in the bible...

  14. #254
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    I thought it was God. Doesn't it say something along the lines of: In the beginning was the .Net framework?

  15. #255
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Ah although sometimes one has to move backwards in order to move forwards.
    All men have an inherent right to life, the right to self determination including freedom from forced or compulsory labour, a right to hold opinions and the freedom of expression, and the right to a fair trial and freedom from torture. Be aware that these rights are universal and inalienable (cannot be given, taken or otherwise transferred or removed) although you do risk losing the aforementioned rights should you fail to uphold them e.g Charles Taylor; United Nations sources: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/, http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Professional...ages/CCPR.aspx. Also Charles I was beheaded on the 30th of January of 1649 for trying to replace parliamentary democracy with an absolute monarchy, the same should happen to Dr Phil and Stephen Fry; source: http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...ute-Monarchism.

    The plural of sun is stars you Catholic turkeys.

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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Which is an old zen proverb btw.
    All men have an inherent right to life, the right to self determination including freedom from forced or compulsory labour, a right to hold opinions and the freedom of expression, and the right to a fair trial and freedom from torture. Be aware that these rights are universal and inalienable (cannot be given, taken or otherwise transferred or removed) although you do risk losing the aforementioned rights should you fail to uphold them e.g Charles Taylor; United Nations sources: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/, http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Professional...ages/CCPR.aspx. Also Charles I was beheaded on the 30th of January of 1649 for trying to replace parliamentary democracy with an absolute monarchy, the same should happen to Dr Phil and Stephen Fry; source: http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...ute-Monarchism.

    The plural of sun is stars you Catholic turkeys.

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  18. #258
    Addicted Member Witis's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    zen, like Invader Zim?
    Which parts of zen are like zim?
    All men have an inherent right to life, the right to self determination including freedom from forced or compulsory labour, a right to hold opinions and the freedom of expression, and the right to a fair trial and freedom from torture. Be aware that these rights are universal and inalienable (cannot be given, taken or otherwise transferred or removed) although you do risk losing the aforementioned rights should you fail to uphold them e.g Charles Taylor; United Nations sources: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/, http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Professional...ages/CCPR.aspx. Also Charles I was beheaded on the 30th of January of 1649 for trying to replace parliamentary democracy with an absolute monarchy, the same should happen to Dr Phil and Stephen Fry; source: http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...ute-Monarchism.

    The plural of sun is stars you Catholic turkeys.

  19. #259
    Loquacious User Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    The z part, of course.
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    Addicted Member Witis's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Anything else?
    All men have an inherent right to life, the right to self determination including freedom from forced or compulsory labour, a right to hold opinions and the freedom of expression, and the right to a fair trial and freedom from torture. Be aware that these rights are universal and inalienable (cannot be given, taken or otherwise transferred or removed) although you do risk losing the aforementioned rights should you fail to uphold them e.g Charles Taylor; United Nations sources: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/, http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Professional...ages/CCPR.aspx. Also Charles I was beheaded on the 30th of January of 1649 for trying to replace parliamentary democracy with an absolute monarchy, the same should happen to Dr Phil and Stephen Fry; source: http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...ute-Monarchism.

    The plural of sun is stars you Catholic turkeys.

  21. #261
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    M is like N. M is even cooler than N, heck M is a character in a famous movie even!

  22. #262
    Addicted Member Witis's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    and now you almost have me convinced.
    All men have an inherent right to life, the right to self determination including freedom from forced or compulsory labour, a right to hold opinions and the freedom of expression, and the right to a fair trial and freedom from torture. Be aware that these rights are universal and inalienable (cannot be given, taken or otherwise transferred or removed) although you do risk losing the aforementioned rights should you fail to uphold them e.g Charles Taylor; United Nations sources: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/, http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Professional...ages/CCPR.aspx. Also Charles I was beheaded on the 30th of January of 1649 for trying to replace parliamentary democracy with an absolute monarchy, the same should happen to Dr Phil and Stephen Fry; source: http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...ute-Monarchism.

    The plural of sun is stars you Catholic turkeys.

  23. #263
    WiggleWiggle dclamp's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Real G's move in silence like lasagna

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    Loquacious User Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Well, it SHOULD be silent, like the p in pool.
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Witis View Post
    Ah although sometimes one has to move backwards in order to move forwards.
    So your saying moving from VB6 to .NET is going backwards but now next step is to move forward? (vNext?)
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Paint it black.
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    Fanatic Member SJWhiteley's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Paint it black.
    Damn, I just created a VB6 native code compiler, yesterday (yes, 64 bit and all) but it was all in blue, so I just decided to trash it.
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    You may have actually gotten that reference, but I barely did. I seem to remember some event where Steve Jobs poured a can of black paint on a computer as part of some promotion of NeXT systems.
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    Addicted Member Witis's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by RobDog888 View Post
    So your saying moving from VB6 to .NET is going backwards but now next step is to move forward? (vNext?)
    Sort of, try reversing back to XP and Visual Studio 6.0, and then going forwards but this time by growing those architectures and avoiding vista and .net.
    All men have an inherent right to life, the right to self determination including freedom from forced or compulsory labour, a right to hold opinions and the freedom of expression, and the right to a fair trial and freedom from torture. Be aware that these rights are universal and inalienable (cannot be given, taken or otherwise transferred or removed) although you do risk losing the aforementioned rights should you fail to uphold them e.g Charles Taylor; United Nations sources: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/, http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Professional...ages/CCPR.aspx. Also Charles I was beheaded on the 30th of January of 1649 for trying to replace parliamentary democracy with an absolute monarchy, the same should happen to Dr Phil and Stephen Fry; source: http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...ute-Monarchism.

    The plural of sun is stars you Catholic turkeys.

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    Addicted Member 3com's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    My firts stuff

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  32. #272
    WiggleWiggle dclamp's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Ustedes habas en Espanol. Muy bien mijo.

    I wish I was fluent in Spanish... Learning slowly but surely. I need to move to Spain or Mexico for a year

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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Witis View Post
    Sort of, try reversing back to XP and Visual Studio 6.0, and then going forwards but this time by growing those architectures and avoiding vista and .net.
    Exactly.

    vNext is not "a step forward" it's backpaddling to "things that have worked and still work well" (native compilation, no VM).

    Convinced C++ Developers are simply shaking their heads about all those "explorers in .NET-land",
    who wasted time, money and efforts with "things they were sold as fashionable" -
    (despite MS not using .NET for all their critical products - just to give you one other reason,
    why some people never "moved on").

    Amazing, that the guys who were fooled, always paint those who recognized this MS-foolishness
    early (skipping the whole adventure), as "backward-oriented and slow idiots", incapable of "progress" -
    not even now recognizing, that "the emperor was naked all the time".

    Well, mostly those who are manipulated, recognize at least "that something is wrong,
    smells fishy" - and that's the insecurity dilettante (rightly) pointed out.

    It shows in over-proportionate aggressiveness (which has its roots in insecurity) -
    and it shows in "defending the manipulator" (an automatic protection-mechanism,
    to avoid admitting "being manipulated" to oneself).

    Just some stuff to think about in "silent contemplation"...

    Olaf
    Last edited by Schmidt; Jun 14th, 2014 at 04:51 AM.

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    Addicted Member 3com's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by dclamp View Post
    Ustedes habas en Espanol. Muy bien mijo.

    I wish I was fluent in Spanish... Learning slowly but surely. I need to move to Spain or Mexico for a year
    Or Catalonia, it's the best, si señor.

    I come from Colombian but living in Catalonia (many, many years ago), I do not say how many, because there is somebody claiming about grandfathers on board.

    By other side...

    While we’re looking forward, it’s also good to look at one of the current strengths of .NET. There are currently 1.8 billion active installs of .NET
    Uhmn... pretty open source involve with net lately, that's nice.

    source: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archi...px#_.NET_vNext

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    Loquacious User Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    Exactly.

    vNext is not "a step forward" it's backpaddling to "things that have worked and still work well" (native compilation, no VM).

    Convinced C++ Developers are simply shaking their heads about all those "explorers in .NET-land",
    who wasted time, money and efforts with "things they were sold as fashionable" -
    (despite MS not using .NET for all their critical products - just to give you one other reason,
    why some people never "moved on").

    Amazing, that the guys who were fooled, always paint those who recognized this MS-foolishness
    early (skipping the whole adventure), as "backward-oriented and slow idiots", incapable of "progress" -
    not even now recognizing, that "the emperor was naked all the time".

    Well, mostly those who are manipulated, recognize at least "that something is wrong,
    smells fishy" - and that's the insecurity dilettante (rightly) pointed out.

    It shows in over-proportionate aggressiveness (which has its roots in insecurity) -
    and it shows in "defending the manipulator" (an automatic protection-mechanism,
    to avoid admitting "being manipulated" to oneself).

    Just some stuff to think about in "silent contemplation"...

    Olaf
    That's just a whole mass of self-righteous nonsense intended to puff yourself up by insulting others. Sure, you can look at the past and decide that your decision was the right one and that it means that you were smart enough to see the future. Try knowing what is coming BEFORE it happens rather than after. Of course, in this case, it's a small minority that thinks the way you do, while the rest don't feel fooled at all.

    Regardless of that, at the time that .NET was created, an interpreted byte-code language was dominating the discussion of the future of programming. The language, of course, was Java. Sun offered it up for international standardization, MS did with it as both MS and Borland had done with C++ (adding some proprietary extensions unique to their compiler), and Sun got huffy and pulled the language out of standardization so that they could control what was in and out. At the time, there was plenty of talk in the trade journals that Java was going to replace not just other languages, but Windows (with a web-based OS). Java was talked about as heading towards the holy grail of a write-once, run-anywhere language that would make the OS and the hardware irrelevant. So, was anybody surprised that MS came out with a language that copied many of the things that Java had? Do you remember all the talk in the early days of .NET where a JIT compiler would be written for all kinds of different OS and hardware (including dedicated hardware)?

    I'd like to see a truly native compiled .NET, but if you are seriously saying that you knew all along that by this year Java wouldn't have lived up to the promise that it had, and that MS wouldn't move .NET to the platforms that it was talking about...well good for you. You took a guess and were kind of right, but mostly just as wrong. You've bet on a horse that has now been shot. Were you smart enough to see that coming?
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    That's just a whole mass of self-righteous nonsense intended to puff yourself up by insulting others.
    Insulting others? where the hell did you see the insult? The whole thread is full of .NUTs trying to put down who didn't follow MS orders to eat what they want. It was not futurology, is was just good sense.
    It's amazing how Chit Chat threads about VB6 become so full of .NET addicts just to talk bad and ridiculize who wants to keep Classic VB alive, and I can point you LOTS of insulting and bad behavior from such members, but I don't think I need to. Why didn't you talk about fish instead?

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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    That's just a whole mass of self-righteous nonsense ...
    Because?
    See, I've already brought the reference to the Anderson-tale:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emp...se_as_an_idiom

    And BTW, what you just did is listed under: "The Courtiers Reply":
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Courtier%27s_Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    ...intended to puff yourself up by insulting others.
    Nah, come on ... where was the insult?
    What shoe did you choose to put on (aka why do you *feel* insulted)?

    I mean, I've calmly explained just my point of view... if you think that I'm utterly wrong,
    then there's no reason to feel insulted - just laugh at me - or label me "backwards" or
    "unwilling to learn new things" or just "VB-cry-baby" or whatever creative (and of
    course non-insulting) attribute for a VB6-developer comes to mind *this* day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Sure, you can look at the past and decide that your decision was the right one ...
    That's not the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    ...and that it means that you were smart enough to see the future. Try knowing what is coming BEFORE
    And that also is an allegation and was not the point.

    There's a whole lot of other VB6-devs like me, who simply decided what they thought was right for them
    to do (at that point in the past) - and "unwillingness to learn new things" or even more ridiculous:
    "fear of OOP-concepts" was the least, believe me.

    Most of us wanted to use a (simple to feed) native-compiler further - MS supported
    the (fullblown) concept for C++ developers further in all those years, and preferred
    native compilation themselves in their products - so there was nothing wrong
    apparently, in using the concept ourselves.

    [a long-winded explanation about Java and VM-based concepts...]

    And no, Java didn't really appeal to me either (for the same reasons) - otherwise I'd
    have supported concepts like Jabaco (VB6-Code to Java-ByteCode) and "moved on"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You've bet on a horse that has now been shot. Were you smart enough to see that coming?
    I've not bet on anything - I've just made a decision not to use some technological
    concepts I had no use for and never liked.

    Instead I've decided to use the compiler (I was already happy with) further -
    and invested my time into things which I considered to have more long-term-
    value, should MS decide to not support VB6-compiled Apps on future OSes...

    Sometimes the decision "to wait until some things become more clear" is not
    unwise, you know?
    What I'm pointing out to you is simply, that I cannot understand why you
    *still* mark people who made such a decision, as "living in the past" -
    *especially* after experiencing all those confusing decisions and the latest
    back-paddling maneuvers on the part of MS over the last years and months.

    If somebody is apparently acting confused, then it would be a fault to
    follow along unquestioningly (as you prove yourself, by not adopting
    the Metro-concepts wholeheartedly, when I look at the posting-count
    there) - many VB6-developers simply started a few years earlier, to act
    reasonable, waiting things out, before investing time into "adventurous
    things".

    Olaf
    Last edited by Schmidt; Jun 14th, 2014 at 09:23 PM.

  38. #278
    PowerPoster
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    We can't all be the computer wizards these .Net guys are.

    After all we haven't even tried to type a bunch of 1s and 0s into Notepad, save as EXE, then try to run it. They're just such geniuses!

  39. #279
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,002

    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    We can't all be the computer wizards these .Net guys are.

    After all we haven't even tried to type a bunch of 1s and 0s into Notepad, save as EXE, then try to run it. They're just such geniuses!
    Yeah, noticed that too - but hesitated to post "something funny" - since it seems to be a
    good (and hard defended) tradition here (even in Chit-Chat), to reserve all the "fun" for an
    exclusive inner circle: (real technical expertise insignificant - just *claim* that you speak
    "a dozen languages", already *heard* about async/await, generics and lambdas, then
    make some fun-remarks about VB6-dinosaurs, post dozens of fish- or bait-pictures,
    place at least 1000 postings in the post-race-thread, and eh-voila:
    get your "welcome to the club"-sticker.

    Come on boys - give us some allowance to make some fun of you for a change... say,
    for any 10 "using VB6-is-soo-ridiculous" postings we endure, we earn an official voucher
    for just one single "let's make some fun of the .NET-guys" in return ... deal?
    (I'd think we have gathered some 100-200 already in the meantime, but not sure -
    would it be even more vouchers dile? - not that long aboard to make a good guess)...

    Olaf

  40. #280
    Web developer Nightwalker83's Avatar
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    Re: VB6 is DEAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    After all we haven't even tried to type a bunch of 1s and 0s into Notepad, save as EXE, then try to run it. They're just such geniuses!
    You mean dday9 didn't attempt it as suggested here?
    If this thread is finished with please mark it "Resolved" by selecting "Mark thread resolved" from the "Thread tools" drop-down menu.
    Please consider giving me some rep points if I help you a lot.
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    Technology is a dangerous thing in the hands of an idiot! I am that idiot.

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