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Thread: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

  1. #41

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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    Rubbish. OSX, maybe but the majority of iOS users don't use OSX. More iOS users would have a PC than a Mac.
    I wouldn't be so sure. I think most Windows users would be more willing to buy and Android device rather than an iPad, and for obvious reasons. Here is an interesting article about those fanboys:

    http://www.patrickkphillips.com/2012...-so-much-hate/
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  2. #42
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by esposito View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure. I think most Windows users would be more willing to buy and Android device rather than an iPad, and for obvious reasons.
    That's based on an assumption that most Windows users hate Apple, which is not true. Your average Windows user couldn't give a hoot about Apple/Microsoft rivalry. They use a PC running Windows because it does what they want it to do and they are just as likely to use an iPhone or iPad for the very same reason. I know a good number of people like that, some who use PCs just as a tool and others for whom it's more than that. I'm a long-time Windows user who is also a .NET developer and I don't hate Apple. I have to admit that I'm immune to the "rivalry" between the companies and their users but what separates us from the animals is our ability to rationalise above such things. They are just companies trying to make money and neither especially cares about me and nor are they obliged to. I have no real desire to read about fanboys. I read a story about a particular Microsoft fanboy the other day and I'm afraid I just don't have any real respect for his kind, regardless of their allegiance.

  3. #43
    WiggleWiggle dclamp's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by esposito View Post
    I agree with you, but those extremist fanboys do exist and cannot be ignored. And I'm afraid they represent the majority of iOS and OSX users.
    Yes the extremist exist but they do not make up the majority of iOS and OSx users. Coming from a Technical Theatre background, everyone owned an OSx device. They were not extremist fanboys who insisted that OSx was far superior than windows and tried converting everyone. OSx was simply the preferred and industry standard os for design.

    I actually have never met anyone who was an extremist fanboy. Simply because they are rare and pretty much only exist online in flame forums. IMO

  4. #44
    WiggleWiggle dclamp's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    They are just companies trying to make money and neither especially cares about me and nor are they obliged to.
    This is accurate as of now. In years past both companies ran the "I am a PC" and "I am a Mac" commercial which basically put down each other. I havent seen one of these commercials air in years now. At this point they are pretty mutual it seems.

  5. #45

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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by dclamp View Post
    Yes the extremist exist but they do not make up the majority of iOS and OSx users. Coming from a Technical Theatre background, everyone owned an OSx device. They were not extremist fanboys who insisted that OSx was far superior than windows and tried converting everyone. OSx was simply the preferred and industry standard os for design.

    I actually have never met anyone who was an extremist fanboy. Simply because they are rare and pretty much only exist online in flame forums. IMO
    I know many of them, instead, and there's nothing I can do to convince them that there's little difference between OSX and Windows.
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  6. #46
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    Oh, of course you're right. Obviously there is something different in the DNA and noone who has ever used Windows uses iOS.
    I've certainly felt that way, at times.
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  7. #47
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    By the way, I understand where Esposito is coming from on this, and tend to agree. I also agree with JMC that lots of iPhone users are not OSX fanatics, but PC users, but there has been a strong fan base in the Apple-Only world for a very long time. I used to read their trade journals. To some extent, it was kind of funny, because I was reading the journals in the dark times of OS6 and OS7 as the OS8 debacle exploded. Nobody would write Windows in those magazines. Not in the articles and not in the letters to the editor. It seemed to be an editorial rule that it has to be spelled Windoz. Demonizing the opposition is rather a hallmark of cults and other militant opposition groups.

    I don't follow the trade journals anymore. I don't even know if they still exist. The fans still do, but I would expect that the move to Intel platforms and dual-boot systems has toned down the rhetoric. After all, there isn't a Wintel box anymore now that Apple is also Intel and can do Windows.
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    By the way, I understand where Esposito is coming from on this, and tend to agree. I also agree with JMC that lots of iPhone users are not OSX fanatics, but PC users, but there has been a strong fan base in the Apple-Only world for a very long time. I used to read their trade journals. To some extent, it was kind of funny, because I was reading the journals in the dark times of OS6 and OS7 as the OS8 debacle exploded. Nobody would write Windows in those magazines. Not in the articles and not in the letters to the editor. It seemed to be an editorial rule that it has to be spelled Windoz. Demonizing the opposition is rather a hallmark of cults and other militant opposition groups.

    I don't follow the trade journals anymore. I don't even know if they still exist. The fans still do, but I would expect that the move to Intel platforms and dual-boot systems has toned down the rhetoric. After all, there isn't a Wintel box anymore now that Apple is also Intel and can do Windows.
    I certainly don't argue that such people don't exist but I would argue that such people are not the "real" iOS users. The proportion of such people that make up the OSX user base would be greater but iOS devices are far more commodity products. There are obviously such people on both sides of the debate - in fact, both sides of any debate - but I think that they are perhaps a bit more rabid on the Apple side because Microsoft's dominance on the desktop for so long. Now that Apple is doing so well, those people don't have to try so hard because they think that Apple's position speaks for itself and we're probably seeing a few more bared teeth on the Microsoft side because Microsoft is under more pressure these days. Of course, now the Apple folk have Google and Android to deal with, so we Microsoft users don't have to bear the entire brunt of their ire.

  9. #49
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Nokia's Android phone: X marks the forked spot? is a stilted and sometimes incoherent blog post about possible Android adoption by Microsoft.

    The crux of it seems to be Nokia feature phones for 3rd world markets and the failed attempt to fit bloated WinPhone.Net on them in place of Nokia's older OSs.

    Microsoft so far hasn't been able to get its Windows Phone OS to work on feature phones. It has had pretty good success selling some of the low-end Lumias running the Windows Phone OS into emerging markets. But the Softies haven't gotten the Windows Phone OS to work -- as far as my sources have heard -- on the Asha line.
    But the writer also wanders all over the place with other comments:

    It's not just on the Windows Phone side of its business that Microsoft is looking for ways to beat Google at its own game. Might Microsoft end up supporting Android apps on Windows at some point? If you'd asked me this a year or two ago, I'd have laughed. Now I have to say I think anything and everything is on the table.
    But everything written there seems to be speculation in a vacuum, there are no official statements or actual product releases. Maybe today was just a slow news day.

  10. #50

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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    I certainly don't argue that such people don't exist but I would argue that such people are not the "real" iOS users. The proportion of such people that make up the OSX user base would be greater but iOS devices are far more commodity products. There are obviously such people on both sides of the debate - in fact, both sides of any debate - but I think that they are perhaps a bit more rabid on the Apple side because Microsoft's dominance on the desktop for so long. Now that Apple is doing so well, those people don't have to try so hard because they think that Apple's position speaks for itself and we're probably seeing a few more bared teeth on the Microsoft side because Microsoft is under more pressure these days. Of course, now the Apple folk have Google and Android to deal with, so we Microsoft users don't have to bear the entire brunt of their ire.
    I think "real" is a vague concept open to personal interpretations. You are probably right when you say that Apple products fanboys make up the OSX user base, whereas iOS users are not necessarily people who despise Windows.

    I also agree with you when you say that Microsoft is under pressure these days, and with good reason. I firmly believe that WinRT and Windows RT can be considered as a commercial fiasco which has led a lot of Windows users to look for alternative operating systems. I myself don't feel comfortable with the Metro interface and, when I bought a new PC with Windows 8, the first thing I did was install a Windows7-like start button. I am working hard to remove any applications that make the Metro interface appear, because I just want to get rid of it completely.

    So, if Apple products are being so successful these days, it's because people don't like Windows 8/8.1. Please bear in mind that I prefer Windows to OSX because with Windows I can work must faster and I have many more applications that I don't have under OSX. That's why I hope Microsoft will finally realize that insisting on RT may result in a disaster. Believe it or not, the school I work for decided not to upgrade to Windows 8 because of the lack of the start button and the invasive presence of the Metro interface. That was the first time my school had not upgraded to a newer version of Windows.

    The good news is that Microsoft declared they are going to reintroduce the start button (the real start button, and not its apish imitation you can find in Windows 8.1) in the next release of their desktop OS, and that the Metro interface will become less invasive. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope they will not change their mind. After all, most of my incomes depend on Windows.
    Last edited by esposito; Feb 11th, 2014 at 02:06 AM.
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  11. #51
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    I'd like a way to disable that Metro interface so it can boot straight to the desktop. And of course I want the start menu. But come to think of it, those changes would result in a less pretty(No Aero Glass) version of Windows 7 so I guess its better to leave it the way it is and just continue using Windows 7. Don't get it twisted, I don't hate Windows 8, I don't even think its bad. I'm just more comfortable with Windows 7.
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    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I'd like a way to disable that Metro interface so it can boot straight to the desktop.
    You can already boot straight to the desktop in Windows 8.1 but there's no disabling the Modern UI.

  13. #53

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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    You can already boot straight to the desktop in Windows 8.1 but there's no disabling the Modern UI.
    Correct. I have upgraded (for free) my Windows 8 notebook to Windows 8.1 and I now I can boot directly to the desktop. Unfortunately, the start button you find in Win8.1 is a joke as it actually takes you to the hideous Metro interface. So I had to replace it with a third-party start button which behaves in the same way as in Win7. As I said, MS promised they will reintroduce the classic start button in Windows 9. I can't wait.
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  14. #54
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Come to think of it, I really wouldn't need that whole start menu, just the options to shut down, restart and log off. I also use it to pin stuff there. Those are the only ways I use the start menu. I very rarely use the sub-menus to start apps that I've installed since they're either pinned to the task bar, pinned to the start menu, on the desktop or started by navigating the file system using Windows Explorer.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    You can already boot straight to the desktop in Windows 8.1 but there's no disabling the Modern UI.
    This is good to know. I don't like the Metro interface at all. It looks like a jumbled mess to me.
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Come to think of it, I really wouldn't need that whole start menu, just the options to shut down, restart and log off. I also use it to pin stuff there. Those are the only ways I use the start menu.
    As I've said, that was my main gripe with Windows 8. What they have done in Windows 8.1 is give you access to Shut Down, etc, by right-clicking the Windows button. Also, you can pin desktop apps to the Start Page.
    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I don't like the Metro interface at all. It looks like a jumbled mess to me.
    That just seems strange, given that the Start Page is a grid of square tiles. That seems about as not jumbled as it's possible to get. I guess if you're talking about the apps then I guess the issue is, at least in part, that they lack the 3D effects that we have got used to in desktop apps and that tends to delimit specific areas of the app more definitively.

  16. #56
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    That just seems strange, given that the Start Page is a grid of square tiles. That seems about as not jumbled as it's possible to get.
    The tiles have different sizes and orientations which to me looks jumbled. Also, I didn't get a sense of any kind of categorization of the items on the metro menu. It didn't feel like I was using Windows. I'm accustomed to menus and such being organized in a hierarchical fashion which makes it easy to kind of guess where a specific feature is. It felt like everything was just out there on this flat interface. That would take some getting used to whenever I decide to move to Win8.
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    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    menus and such being organized in a hierarchical fashion
    I've been trying to put my finger on that for a while. I find the metro interface difficult to navigate because, of course, you don't use it to "navigate". It just chucks the whole lot at you in one big blob that makes me go boss-eyed. Some collapsing categories would go a long way toward improving the experience.

    I have to say that Apple Fanboys, MS Fanboys and Android Fanboys definitely exist. I'm pretty sure they're a vocal minority rather than a reasonable majority, though, so I can't picture any commercial company basing their business strategy on what the fanboys will think. Apart from anything the company has no reason to try and please them because they already iredeemably love or loathe the company anyway. The battle will be fought for the middle ground.
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  18. #58
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Some collapsing categories would go a long way toward improving the experience.
    This very much.
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  19. #59
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    As long as collapsing categories is done at a gross level, I'd go along with that.

    I've said in other threads that the general direction is a good one. MS made one BIG mistake with the Modern UI, which was that you can't have desktop apps tied to a tile. Fix that and there will be people who have a bajillion different tiles on the screen, which will require some kind of expanding/collapsing categorization to be manageable...but that's for messy people, and I'm only semi-messy.

    Ultimately, the goal is an OS that works as well on touch as on the desktop. The old desktop system ONLY worked with mice, because everything was too small and too precise for touch operation. The newer system is mostly just different, and people don't like different. After all, who really used the Start menu? It's an awkward place to pin stuff to, since it requires two clicks to launch anything (one to open the start menu, the other to choose something), and the shut down options could have been handled many other ways, such as a button in the upper righthand corner, which is something we are also all accustomed to. There is nothing fundamentally 'right' about burying the whole concept of End/Suspend/Shut Down/Quite/Abandon Hope under a button called "Start". Heck, there isn't even a button called "Start" anymore, but just a blue circle with some other colors on it (at least on 7).

    As it is, so many people cover their desktop with dozens of icons they never click, and make the background a picture that they never look at (because as soon as you launch an application, the desktop is hidden). The vast majority of the desktop is wasted space. Putting tiles on the desktop that actually do something is certainly different, but not less of a waste than what it is being used for now. Furthermore, clicking on a tile with a mouse is no harder than clicking an icon on the task bar, and slightly easier than clicking on the blue circle, then clicking on a menu item on the Start menu. So, if it was all tiles, that would be as easy for a mouse as the current system, but the current system doesn't work well for touch, whereas a tile system does. Therefore, as long as you could launch all your apps from tiles, it's better overall because you can be consistent across mobile and desktop, a place where we will all be in five years if technology continues along the path it is on. If you desktop becomes a mobile platform, do you really want it to work effectively as only one or the other, but not both? Certainly not.

    Unfortunately, the Modern UI currently does NOT work in that fashion because you can't tie desktop apps to tiles. That will doubtless be fixed, at some point.
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    While one has to wonder about the reasons (is Microsoft now seen as a wounded beast, fair game to be taken down by jackels?) even some of the staunchest fanboys, patriots, whatever have begun to Speak Truth.

    What the Heck is Happening to Windows?

    Windows 8 is not well-designed. It's a mess. But Windows 8 is a bigger problem than that. Windows 8 is a disaster in every sense of the word.

    This is not open to debate, is not part of some cute imaginary world where everyone's opinion is equally valid or whatever. Windows 8 is a disaster. Period.

    While some Windows backers took a wait-and-see approach and openly criticized me for being honest about this, I had found out from internal sources immediately that the product was doomed from the get-go, feared and ignored by customers, partners and other groups in Microsoft alike. Windows 8 was such a disaster that Steven Sinofsky was ejected from the company and his team of lieutenants was removed from Windows in a cyclone of change that triggered a reorganization of the entire company. Even Sinofsky's benefactor, Microsoft's then-CEO Steve Ballmer, was removed from office. Why did all this happen? Because together, these people set the company and Windows back by years and have perhaps destroyed what was once the most successful software franchise of all time.

  21. #61
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    There's plenty of hyperbole in that blog, but it's remarkably light on details. All he seems to do is come up with how loudly he can say it's a disaster. I kept waiting for him to give an example that was meaningful, but he coyly left out ANY detail about Update 1.

    He then ended with a stupid statement that has been around for decades. It was stupid then, it's stupid now: Windows is all about productivity. What a load of baloney. Back in the late 80s into the 90s, every new Intel processor would get reviewed in the trade journals and would include, often several times, the statement that this new processor is more powerful than any home user will ever need, so only businesses and servers need pay any attention. Of course, the reality was that there were loads of people shelling out that money to play newer and better games. Eventually, the hardware manufacturers woke up to that fact. You don't see the newest graphics adapters being advertised as "refreshing Excel even faster."

    Productivity is certainly important to Windows, but Windows has also always been the premier gaming OS for personal computers (well, not always, but as long as Windows has been around). Hardware woke up to the fact that there was a domestic audience that was willing to pay top dollar for their stuff, and it wasn't so they could be productive. Quite the opposite, really.

    What we probably are not going to see is a blogger saying: I can't predict the future, my opinion isn't all that valid for the present, and my view of the past is filtered through my biases. Therefore, take anything I say with a grain of salt. Instead, they are going to bloviate, and the more inflammatory they can be, the better.

    Having now used Win8.1, I get it. There are improvements that need to be made, and I wouldn't at all mind seeing the app store fade (though I see no reason for it to go away), but this is the direction we need to go. I want to be in the world where my desktop is my mobile. When I plug into a docking station I get the full keyboard, full mouse, multiple screens, sound, and so forth. Then, when I leave, I want to be able to unplug from the docking station and my computer is my mobile device. A future where you have one tool to do a set of tasks, but you have to carry one tool for use in one location, and a different version of the tool for use in a different location, and the two don't even talk all that well together: That's a stupid future. We don't have to go there.
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I kept waiting for him to give an example that was meaningful, but he coyly left out ANY detail about Update 1.
    Er, he's been covering that for weeks. See Windows 8.1 Update 1 Preview: Hands-on with Build 16610 and his previous articles.


    Stick a fork in it, Windows 8 is done (for).

  23. #63
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    The tiles have different sizes and orientations which to me looks jumbled. Also, I didn't get a sense of any kind of categorization of the items on the metro menu. It didn't feel like I was using Windows. I'm accustomed to menus and such being organized in a hierarchical fashion which makes it easy to kind of guess where a specific feature is. It felt like everything was just out there on this flat interface. That would take some getting used to whenever I decide to move to Win8.
    It seems like what you refer to as "the Metro interface" is just the Start Page and/or the All Apps page. That is not the whole Modern UI. You are correct that everything is visible all the time in those pages and that is definitely geared towards ease of use on a touchscreen. You can group tiles on the Start Page though, and also name groups in Windows 8.1. As for the All Apps page, it's a very rare thing that I ever use it as it's quicker to search in almost every case. Only if you didn't know what you were looking for would you actually look through all the apps. Even if it is an inconvenience, it's one that need be endured so infrequently as to become insignificant.

  24. #64
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Er, he's been covering that for weeks. See Windows 8.1 Update 1 Preview: Hands-on with Build 16610 and his previous articles.


    Stick a fork in it, Windows 8 is done (for).
    You selectively find negative articles, and that shouldn't be a tough search: It's a heckuva lot easier to throw a tomato than to throw a flower. However, since you have clearly shown which outcome you would like, I think I can be forgiven my doubts.
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Er, he's been covering that for weeks. See Windows 8.1 Update 1 Preview: Hands-on with Build 16610 and his previous articles.


    Stick a fork in it, Windows 8 is done (for).
    If you mean Windows 8 specifically then of course. Why would anyone keep using Windows 8 when Windows 8.1 is available? If you mean a version of Windows that combines the familiar desktop with the Modern UI then no.

  26. #66

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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Microsoft's Nokia is about to release an Android phone later this month:

    http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/10/53...hone-wsj-rumor

    At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple followed suit.
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Why would anyone keep using Windows 8 when Windows 8.1 is available?
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  28. #68
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Ah, if only wishing made things so!

  29. #69
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Actually, that would probably be pretty bad. People are really bad at wishing, as so many short stories about wish-fulfillment have shown. There are just too many ways it can go wrong.
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  30. #70
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Well there are plenty of post-Win8 ideas being thrown around.

    Would (and should) Microsoft enable Android apps on Windows?

    The biggest issue for Microsoft, in my view, would be how to explain its new Android-embracing strategy to its existing developer base. Why should developers still bother writing apps for Windows -- and especially the fledgling Windows Store/Metro Style market -- if they could simply write to the larger Android marketplace and have their apps available on Windows? Microsoft currently doesn't allow legacy Windows apps to be downloaded from the Windows Store right now. (They can be listed but not downloaded from there.) Should Android apps get a leg up in this respect?
    Why not? With .Net dying Microsoft would be a fool to ignore alternatives.

  31. #71
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Where did you get the idea that .NET was dying? You seem to be linking to all the news on here, so I assume that it was in one of your links that I saw the question as to whether MS was going 100% .NET, or not....no, now that I think about it, I believe that was in a link in the CC thread about .NET vs VB6 Holy War.
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  32. #72
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    SOAP... legacy. .Net Remoting... legacy. SilverLight... legacy. WinForms... legacy. WPF... legacy. LINQ to SQL... legacy.

    The list goes on and on.

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  33. #73
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Why not? With .Net dying Microsoft would be a fool to ignore alternatives.
    You're quite right. The last update to the .Net Framework was released a very very long time ago in October of 2013.
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  34. #74
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    WinForms is legacy?

    All that stuff you, aside from WinForms (unless you have a different definition than I have, which is Windows Forms Application), is stuff larded onto .NET as technology used to solve very specific problems. Technologies change as new things come along. SOAP may well be legacy because the world seems to be going RESTful rather than the heavier SOAP. The key is WCF, which was all SOAP as far as I could tell, but now is SOAP and REST. Whether SOAP itself is going away is a bit hard to say. There were always some advantages it had that REST couldn't match, but there were also some drawbacks. That one may be the VHS vs Betamax kind of debate: Regardless of the the winner, videos are here to stay.

    Silverlight was goofy from the start. I never touched it because it seemed doomed from the launch. The fact that what I expected to come true did, doesn't put me off .NET in any way. Silverlight is built on .NET, but is not .NET. Good riddance, as far as I'm concerned.

    WPF was another thing put onto .NET. I haven't heard that it was necessarily going away, except that I seem to remember that you possibly couldn't use it in Modern Apps. I don't use it anyways, and I'm not writing Modern Apps, so whether it lives or dies is irrelevant.

    LINQ to SQL is old technology that was supplanted. It's still around. Still, arguing that it is legacy is kind of like arguing that VB6 was doomed back in 1998 because DAO was legacy. It's an insane argument to try to make. DAO was two generations off the cutting edge by that time, and it was certainly being pushed out by MS in favor of ADO, but that would have been a hair-brained reason to argue that VB6 was doomed...though it would have been right had you waited long enough. I've never been keen on either LINQ to SQL or its replacement.

    So, your basic argument sums up to: I don't know what .NET is, but lots of peripheral technologies have been replaced by other things and therefore .NET itself must be doomed. Even for somebody as blinded by your biases as you are, such an argument is enough to make people walk nervously away.
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  35. #75
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    SOAP... legacy. .Net Remoting... legacy. SilverLight... legacy. WinForms... legacy. WPF... legacy. LINQ to SQL... legacy.

    The list goes on and on.
    As Shaggy suggests, those are all just technologies implemented in .NET. If Microsoft decide for whatever reason that those technologies are no longer useful then they will no longer be developed. That doesn't mean that the .NET Framework will no longer be developed. SOAP and LINQ to SQL are perfect examples. If people don't want SOAP any more then why would Microsoft continue to develop it? People want REST and the REST support in the .NET Framework has recently been improved, i.e. actively developed, i.e. NOT legacy. Similarly, LINQ to SQL is not all that useful because Entity Framework can do all that it can do plus more. LINQ to SQL is no longer being developed but there is lots of work going into Entity Framework, i.e. NOT legacy. You continue to pick and choose examples that support your bias and ignore those that don't.

  36. #76
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    I'm not why anyone would say SOAP is legacy or that it's being replaced by REST. IF MS aren't actively developing for it in their tools it's because it's already fully mature and fully supported. REST's newer so there's more scope for improving the tools to support it, that's all. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive in any way and I expose my services through both. I mean, why not? It's trivial to do so and it allows the consumer to decide how they want to use it.

    I never touched Linq to SQL... because I know SQL. It always just seemed a little pointless to me. I'm happy to disregard Entity Framework for the same reason. Of course, I may be missing shed loads of benefit by making that choice but I've only got so much time for learning new things and I think I'm better spending it elsewhere at the moment.
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  37. #77
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I'm happy to disregard Entity Framework for the same reason. Of course, I may be missing shed loads of benefit by making that choice but I've only got so much time for learning new things and I think I'm better spending it elsewhere at the moment.
    Time to learn. I've disregarded Entity Framework for the same reason. I love the idea but its so complex, that I fear that I can't afford to spend the time to learn that, at least not right now. Its like a system onto itself.
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  38. #78
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    I know two women who are graphic designers. They both use Macs because that has historically been the better platform on which to do their job. They both have iPhones and one of them an iPad yet neither despise Windows or Microsoft.
    A new female graphic designer has just started at my work and one of the first thing to come out of her mouth was "I am a Mac" (which i have to admit made me cringe), and she made it pretty clear she dislikes windows. All i did was quite reasonably point out that as a software house writing software using MS products who's entire customer base use Windows that was quite a strange statement as she wouldn't have a job otherwise.

    Anyway she didn't like that and now i am apparently a Windows fan-boy because i don't faun over the latest Apple product and i told i preferred using a Windows PC over a Mac.

    My Point?, well i see that behaviour more from Apple users then Windows users, on the whole Mac Users do tend to get more zealot like (maybe its because of all that money they have spent on there shiny new thing!), and i just don't get it, its a computer for god sake its not religion!!!

    ..... and more importantly its not Rugby which is a much more serious matter altogether !!
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  39. #79
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    I'm happy to disregard Entity Framework for the same reason.
    There are other reasons, the Entity Framework does some funny things at times. When we added analytic's to one of our .Net Web apps, most of the performance issues we had were down to queries through the Entity Framework. Since then the team have pretty much pulled the Framework out of the app.
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  40. #80
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    Re: Will Apple switch from iOS to Android?

    One group that Apple has long had as a core was the graphics set. This mostly rose from the fact that Macs had flat addressing at a time when DOS had segmented addressing. That meant that you could easily do larger graphics work on a Mac, so the best graphics software was all on Macs. Once MS switched to flat addressing with Windows95, that advantage went away, but Apple has still retained artists as one of their core constituents.

    Of course, artists are weird, too, so that has something to do with it.
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