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Nov 24th, 2013, 07:20 AM
#1
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[RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
First, I've been posting in the VB 6 part of this forum for about a month. I used to be a professional programmer. but I ended up taking about 10 years off. Now I would like to get back into it. I'm in the middle of trying to put my tools together and learn how much I have to re-learn. At this point it looks like it will take a while, but I am already working on a commercial VB6 app.
I put my first computer together in 1987. The first software I bought for it was Borland Turbo C 1.0. I have always liked C better than VB, but clients wanted VB, so . . . I'm not under that constraint anymore.
I'm using Pelles C just to get back into it, but I would really like to switch to the Borland C++ 5.5 Compiler with attachments. That's where the questions will come from. Although I hate Mickeysoft, both for what it is and what it stands for, Windoze does have a few advantages over the alternatives. Yes, I think Bill Gates is the anti-christ, and refused to use Windoze until my job forced me to. I wouldn't even use MS DOS, especially when almost all of the other DOS variants were better in every way.)
Enough ranting.The point is that I have hardly ever done programming (actually compiling, linking and those essential steps) from the command line. I need to learn (not re-learn), with the Borland C 5.5 compiler as my goal. (I already have Mickeysoft Visual C++ 6.0 and I think it sux.)
I just wanted to let you know that some of my questions will be pretty strange. I think Miser thought I was either crazy or 8 years old when I started posting there, but he seems to have realized that I'm at least being serious.
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Nov 25th, 2013, 04:13 AM
#2
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Nov 25th, 2013, 04:55 AM
#3
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Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
TYVM. Things are going a lot faster than I expected. I'm ready to compile code. I'm just afraid to push the button.
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Nov 25th, 2013, 08:35 AM
#4
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Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Given the choice between installing a DAT drive and pushing the button, I decided to push the button.
It took about 3 tries to get the command line options for the compiler straightened out, and I had one syntax error, but then it started compiling with no errors. Only problem was that it didn't seem to be producing anything. I'd hold my breath and do a 'dir' after every compile. No joy.
Finally I remembered that I had set it up to produce .exe files in a different directory. The 'exe' ran fine.
The setup I ended up with has the TC++ 3.0 IDE in the BC++ 5.5 Compiler directory. It's cool that TC 3 gave me the choice of installing the bits and pieces individually.
My two gripes are that the TC 3 IDE is not sizable, and Borland decided that it was Ok to write over files without warning.
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Nov 25th, 2013, 08:36 AM
#5
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Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Why did it post that here? I was in the other topic.
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Nov 25th, 2013, 10:28 AM
#6
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
The thread moved, so the post moved with it, right? Or did you think the post should show up in a different thread?
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 25th, 2013, 02:59 PM
#7
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
It took about 3 tries to get the command line options for the compiler straightened out, and I had one syntax error, but then it started compiling with no errors. Only problem was that it didn't seem to be producing anything. I'd hold my breath and do a 'dir' after every compile. No joy.
Finally I remembered that I had set it up to produce .exe files in a different directory. The 'exe' ran fine.
...and that, right there, is why you shouldn't be so anti Microsoft. Had you been using .Net it would have just worked. Funny think is I think I might have discussed you in a recent thread...
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill
Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd
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Nov 25th, 2013, 06:16 PM
#8
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Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
The thread moved, so the post moved with it, right? Or did you think the post should show up in a different thread?
Sorry. I had a case of brain fade. I thought this was back in the old thread for some reason.
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Nov 25th, 2013, 08:20 PM
#9
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Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
...and that, right there, is why you shouldn't be so anti Microsoft. Had you been using .Net it would have just worked. Funny think is I think I might have discussed you in a recent thread...
One of the issues is that there are a lot of software developers who can and do produce software just like Mickeysoft's, except it's better.
Anyway, I have some very specific reasons for doing this from the command line with Borland rather than with my copy of Mickeysoft Visual C++.
It turns out that after my 10 year vacation I realized there are not only a lot of things I need to relearn, there are also a significant number of things I need to learn for the first time. At the same time, it's kind of preparation for the inevitable move to ***X. The Mickeysoft juggernaut is not going to change direction and the next time they come out with something like Windoze 8, I'm gone. (I didn't know my shredder could do CDs until I bought Windoze 8x64, so it wasn't a complete waste.)
In case you are suggesting that Mickeysoft has ever done anything positive during it's existence, you must not have been around during their early days. What Bill Gates was best at was putting corporations out of business if they developed software packages that were better than Mickeysoft's offering in the same field.
There was a joke about being able to tell if you made a good software purchase by seeing if Mickeysoft put the developer out of business.
Imagine if he hadn't been able to do that. There wouldn't be any Mickeysoft now and computer programming would probably be years ahead of where we are, even if not in the same direction.
There are probably a lot of people posting here who did go through that period, but may not have seen it the same way I do. You have to remember that I had three enemies on the inside. Three 'programmer' that I wouldn't have hired to empty trash who all ended up as Mickeysoft employees. it seemed like every time they had a problem my number was at the top of the list of people who they called. Maybe it seemed that way to me because all three were at the top of my list of 'people I never want to hear from again.'
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Nov 26th, 2013, 04:02 AM
#10
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
you must not have been around during their early days
I was.
What Bill Gates was best at was putting corporations out of business if they developed software packages that were better than Mickeysoft's offering in the same field.
Not really. Generally what they were good at was buying those companies up which is an entirely different thing. Apart from anything it's beneficial to both parties. In fact, they even bailed Apple out when they were at risk of collapse. Don't get me wrong, you can find plenty of examples of them being monopolistic if you choose to go looking but you'd struggle to find any major corporation of which that wasn't true. A desire to achieve monopoly is hard-wired into the capitalist model.
Imagine if he hadn't been able to do that
Ah yes, it would be like the glorious 80s when there were about a dozen different target platforms a developer could specialize in and never the twain met. Yep, those days were great when, if I wanted to be able to target a broad customer base, I needed to know 8 different languages and programming paradigms. You know, I think I've got a pair of luminous green socks around here somewhere that I'm going to put on, just for old times sake. Life just not been the same since I had a zx spectrum who's language set was small enough for each command to be given its own rubber key.
It's quite clear you've based your choice to use C not on the sensible criteria, its power, its platform agnosticism, its mature user base etc. but rather on some miss-placed idealism rooted in a hatred of Microsoft. I'd put it to you that, while that may be a valid basis for deciding which operating system and office package to run at home as a consumer (we all like to make our little protests from time to time - I personally won't be buying from Amazon until they pay some bloody tax) it's a stupid basis for deciding which platforms to develop on and target as a professional.
And here's another stupid basis for decision making:-
You have to remember that I had three enemies on the inside. Three 'programmer' that I wouldn't have hired to empty trash who all ended up as Mickeysoft employees. it seemed like every time they had a problem my number was at the top of the list of people who they called. Maybe it seemed that way to me because all three were at the top of my list of 'people I never want to hear from again.'
sooo, that should inform your choice of development tools because...
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill
Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd
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Nov 26th, 2013, 06:46 AM
#11
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Microsoft BOUGHT Netscape? News to me.
I just remembered that another of my 'bosses' (I had absolutely no respect for this man at all. Until I met him I didn't realize it was possible to be an asexual *****.) He said Bill Gates was the man he respected most in the world. I didn't ask why, but he told me anyway. He said "Bill Gates wanted to be the richest man in the world, and he is". (Was at the time.)
I would prefer to be remembered as someone who died penniless, but helped a lot of people, than someone whose three favorite words were, "I, Me and My."
In closing, I program in classic C because I enjoy it. I program in Borland C++ and not Mickeysoft C++ because I enjoy one, and not the other.
Last edited by Honduras 2811; Nov 26th, 2013 at 06:57 AM.
Reason: Added 'Boss' insight.
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Nov 26th, 2013, 08:11 AM
#12
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Microsoft BOUGHT Netscape? News to me
They competed with them and won. So what? There was nothing underhand about it (beyond the argument about whether MS should have bundled several browsers in Windows), just simple competition. Would you condemn Sony because Sega don't make Megadrives anymore?
I would prefer to be remembered as someone who died penniless, but helped a lot of people
Personally I'd like to be remembered as someone who died rich and helped a lot of people but hey, go with what makes you happy. To portray Gates as entirely self serving doesn't really stack up against reality though. Successful in business? Certainly. Ruthless in business? That too. But ultimately just a businessman like any other. And to condemn his products because you don't like the man... well that's just a bit silly.
I program in classic C because I enjoy it
Now that's a good reason... as long as you're a hobbyist. But you did say this was for a professional project in which case you have a professional responsibility to your customer to use the best tools available to you in order to produce the best product possible in the smallest timeframe and at the lowest cost. That might well be C, particularly if your fond of it because that means your likely to be better at it, but "I chose C because I don't like Bill Gates and it's taken me 3 goes just to work out how to compile my program" is a message which, I would suggest, you should keep well away from your potential customers.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill
Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd
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Nov 26th, 2013, 09:45 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Sorry, but this is getting irritating my SOLE responsibility to my clients is to give them what they ask for. How I to do that is up to me.
Every piece of code that I write is guaranteed for life. (Mine) And yes I do still get calls at 0200 asking me how to spell 'administrator, from a client that I worked for 15 years ago. As far as I am concerned, that's part of the job.
To end it all, let me tell you another illustrative story. I consulted for the company that sold out to El Paso Natural Gas on a number of projects, like upgrading the software at 250 pumping stations. Good relationship, and they were very happy with Fix DMACS. Then they sold out to El Paso.
One of the movers and shakers decided that, since Wonderware had been the standard for El Paso for a number of years, the stations should all be changed from Fix DMACS to the newest thing, at the time. Which was Wonderware 8 Beta. Naturally our salesman said 'no problem'.
8 million dollars later, without a single station on line, El Paso fired that VP and just about everyone who had supported the conversion.
It would have been funny except I knew those station operators and I hate screwing with people.
Turns out that one of Wonderware's sales people talked to one of our sales people and told him that the software would do what was needed and had been tested and was actually in use by one 'corporation'.
When things started to get really bad, and my corp asked Wonderware's CEO for a personal appearance and an explanation, we learned a lot of things and I quit.
Seems that Wonderware was using an MS (bad sign) database, and they had hired a consultant to put it together for them. That guy made a killing. All of the data was stored, encrypted in Memo fields in the SQL database. He got paid and headed for the deep woods apparently. I was the one who figured out where the data was. No one else at my corporation had the skills. I thought it was hilarious, but I couldn't (didn't try to) break the encryption.
You see, some of the people at my office had spent months putting data into that database, and we might have only been a year or two late on delivery if we could get it out. Never happened. We sent the database to Wonderware for 'conversion' and what we got back was very expensive garbage. Unusable.
Oh, the famous test? Well, they had one system in use . . . at a french restaurant where the network only went from the first floor to the second. For the networking stress test they used 4 nodes in the same room. Not 250 in 6 different states.
Just a reminder that giving the client the absolute latest software can backfire. It's better to use something that will do the job.
And don't even try to convince me that plain ANSI C will be dead before we both are.
Last edited by Honduras 2811; Nov 26th, 2013 at 09:49 AM.
Reason: Last word
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Nov 26th, 2013, 12:15 PM
#14
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Honduras 2811
Seems that Wonderware was using an MS (bad sign) database, and they had hired a consultant to put it together for them. That guy made a killing. All of the data was stored, encrypted in Memo fields in the SQL database. He got paid and headed for the deep woods apparently. I was the one who figured out where the data was. No one else at my corporation had the skills. I thought it was hilarious, but I couldn't (didn't try to) break the encryption.
You see, some of the people at my office had spent months putting data into that database, and we might have only been a year or two late on delivery if we could get it out. Never happened. We sent the database to Wonderware for 'conversion' and what we got back was very expensive garbage. Unusable.
Every example you bring up is about an incompetent programmer or something along those lines. You stated before that your job is to produce high quality software, and it is up to you how to do it. That's fine, but you'll lose a ton of clients because of it.
I would much rather someone build me a high quality application, using tools that are meant for the job, than someone build me a high quality application, using tools that are jumbled together and causes any updates and/or maintenance (not to mention the initial development) to take 3x as long.
I've always found it childish and completely unprofessional for people to say stuff like Windoze or anything along those lines. You mention that you don't like Microsoft because of Bill Gates. Steve Jobs did many horrible things too... so, if you're not going to program for Mac OS or Windows, I guess you're doing to do nothing but mobile and linux development?
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Nov 26th, 2013, 01:33 PM
#15
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Honduras: I hope you, in your life, are not as bitter, vindictive, and driven by dark emotions as you come across in this thread. The only time you mention amusement or happiness appears to be in relationship to the failings of others. Everything else is just darkness. That kind of living will eat your soul.
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 27th, 2013, 02:29 AM
#16
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
I need to learn (not re-learn), with the Borland C 5.5 compiler as my goal. (I already have Mickeysoft Visual C++ 6.0 and I think it sux.)
Why not try the latest techologies from Apple/Eclipse instead of using MS Vc++.
Have you tried:
a. Eclipse IDE for C/C++ Developers
b. IOS for mobile apps?
KG
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Nov 27th, 2013, 02:55 AM
#17
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Oh God, not another one of these god-awful "I hate MS/MS is evil" threads. There's a reason MS is a titan in the IT industry. They make good products. You know, the other day, actually a couple months back, I remember reading something on some Linux site or something about compiling a program where you had to do a bunch of commandline wizardry with about three different commands just to get it to work. I remember thinking that an MS product would simply require you to press "Run". Get real, all this hate mongering against MS is based in nothing sensible. Just a sheep mentality because all the "cool people" are doing it.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 03:13 AM
#18
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
I remember reading something on some Linux site or something about compiling a program where you had to do a bunch of command-line wizardry with about three different commands just to get it to work.
I remember thinking that an MS product would simply require you to press "Run".
Cool!
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Nov 27th, 2013, 03:20 AM
#19
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
It is cool.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 04:25 AM
#20
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
let me tell you another illustrative story
Sadly stories like that are all too common... but still nothing to do with Microsoft and I'm at a complete loss as to why it would inform your choice of tools in any way.
And don't even try to convince me that plain ANSI C will be dead before we both are
I neither believe nor have declared that it would be. If anything I would predict that C will long outlast .Net. It fills several niches very well and they're niches I don't see dissapearing. Engineers and mathmeticians will always have a need for a terse language and people who need to work close the hard ware will always have need of a low level one.
The point I'm trying to make to you is two-fold.
1. C is a valid choice of language if you make it for the rational reasons. I'ev seen no reson from you (except that you like C) that could be construed as rational. Instead your reason condences to "It's not made by Microsoft who I don't like". That's great but would you mind forwarding me a list of your clients because I'll be happy to visit them just after you do and cut the legs from under whatever offer you've made to them.
2. Your reasons for dissliking Microsoft are equally irrational. You diss-like them because they were more successful than their competitors and because you've had some bad experiences with developers and consultants on projects that involved MS technologies.
That's fine, but you'll lose a ton of clients because of it.
I've always found it childish and completely unprofessional for people to say stuff like Windoze or anything along those lines.
There's a reason MS is a titan in the IT industry. They make good products
I remember thinking that an MS product would simply require you to press "Run".
all this hate mongering against MS is based in nothing sensible
What they said...
Last edited by FunkyDexter; Nov 27th, 2013 at 04:26 AM.
Reason: The last word that came after the previous last word
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill
Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd
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Nov 27th, 2013, 05:21 AM
#21
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Honduras: I hope you, in your life, are not as bitter, vindictive, and driven by dark emotions as you come across in this thread. The only time you mention amusement or happiness appears to be in relationship to the failings of others. Everything else is just darkness. That kind of living will eat your soul.
Sorry. Before 10 SUCCESSFUL years as a programming consultant I spent 20 years in the military. If I ever had a soul, it's long gone.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 05:41 AM
#22
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Honduras 2811
If I ever had a soul, it's long gone.
If anything this should have made you more rational and calculating and less emotional. Your rage against MS is purely emotional.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 05:47 AM
#23
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Niya
Oh God, not another one of these god-awful "I hate MS/MS is evil" threads. There's a reason MS is a titan in the IT industry. They make good products. You know, the other day, actually a couple months back, I remember reading something on some Linux site or something about compiling a program where you had to do a bunch of commandline wizardry with about three different commands just to get it to work. I remember thinking that an MS product would simply require you to press "Run". Get real, all this hate mongering against MS is based in nothing sensible. Just a sheep mentality because all the "cool people" are doing it.
Unlike what's his face said, Mickeysoft (Hey, I've been calling them that for 30 years. Why change now?) has had an effect on the direction of OS development, which dictated an effect on programming languages, that no one person or group should be allowed to have.
No matter what you call it, they eliminated all of the viable competition except Apple and UNIX. That, in my eyes, is criminal.
I will not accept someone else telling me what's best for me. Isn't that what Mickesoft has been doing ever since they started up?
After cutting down the field they now operate in a vacuum with just enough 'competition' to get around the anti-trust laws.
Back to ne of the biggest problems that I have always had with them. What gives them the right to decide how my computer should operate? This also affects the computer manufacturers who have to build stuff big an fast enough to handle Mickeysoft's bloatware.
Do you think I buy Mickeysoft products because I like them? I by Mickeysoft prduct, gritting my teeth the whole time, because they have eliminated all of the viable alternatives.
I've been trying to get completely away from Mickeysoft for decades. I've tried OS/X, Apple, briefly, Sun, Linux and even Niklaus Wirth's latest OS. OS/X died, Sun died, no one remembers who Wirth is any more. I got a negayive impression of Apple, but the test was grossly unfair, and I need to revisit that. Linux? I check on them about every 2 years. The software is getting better, but the developers really do deserve to be sent back to the sand box, where they would be lucky to be able to see over the side.
It goes back to my favorite programming quote: "If you want a program that works the way you want it to, write it yourself." Time constraints and lack of knowledge are the two things that keep me from writing my own OS. If no one else used it, so what?
Finally, I made the mistake of using a wizard to create a form in VB the other day. It took me long enough to clean up what it produced than it would have taken for me to write it from scratch. I first became suspicious when I added Option Explicit, which is mandatory in all my VB work. That's all I did. Two words in the Declaration section of a module. Unfortunately, it wouldn't compile any more.
Yes. Let's hold the Mickeysoft jokers on high as the god-like personages that they are. Then send them off to the second grade in India to learn to program.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 05:58 AM
#24
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by kfcSmitty
Every example you bring up is about an incompetent programmer or something along those lines. You stated before that your job is to produce high quality software, and it is up to you how to do it. That's fine, but you'll lose a ton of clients because of it.
I would much rather someone build me a high quality application, using tools that are meant for the job, than someone build me a high quality application, using tools that are jumbled together and causes any updates and/or maintenance (not to mention the initial development) to take 3x as long.
I've always found it childish and completely unprofessional for people to say stuff like Windoze or anything along those lines. You mention that you don't like Microsoft because of Bill Gates. Steve Jobs did many horrible things too... so, if you're not going to program for Mac OS or Windows, I guess you're doing to do nothing but mobile and linux development?
I find this to be insulting. Not sure whether you have read the whole thread. It is obvious that our experiences in life have been completely different. I am comfortable with my choices. I hope that, when you are my age, you can say the same thing.
By the way, have you ever met a really competent Mickeysoft programmer. If not, don't feel bad. No one else has either.
Last edited by Honduras 2811; Nov 27th, 2013 at 06:09 AM.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 06:10 AM
#25
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Niya
If anything this should have made you more rational and calculating and less emotional. Your rage against MS is purely emotional.
Sorry. I wasn't a chaplain's assistant.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 06:40 AM
#26
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Honduras 2811
I've been trying to get completely away from Mickeysoft for decades. I've tried OS/X, Apple, briefly, Sun, Linux and even Niklaus Wirth's latest OS. OS/X died, Sun died, no one remembers who Wirth is any more. I got a negayive impression of Apple, but the test was grossly unfair, and I need to revisit that. Linux? I check on them about every 2 years. The software is getting better, but the developers really do deserve to be sent back to the sand box, where they would be lucky to be able to see over the side.
Is this a long winded way of saying Windows is the best OS ?
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Nov 27th, 2013, 06:45 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
Now that's a good reason... as long as you're a hobbyist. But you did say this was for a professional project in which case you have a professional responsibility to your customer to use the best tools available to you in order to produce the best product possible in the smallest timeframe and at the lowest cost. That might well be C, particularly if your fond of it because that means your likely to be better at it, but "I chose C because I don't like Bill Gates and it's taken me 3 goes just to work out how to compile my program" is a message which, I would suggest, you should keep well away from your potential customers.
You need to set foot in the real world, possibly for the first time. Try consulting for the Oil and Gas industry for a few years. You might end up with a better understanding of a lot of things.
What to use to write the programs and how long you expect to be able to support it are two of the most important parts of the design process. Do you use a design process? If so, believe it or not, you are not unique.
So suppose the first assignment you get is to upgrade a station. You show up at the site with a van full of new computers with new programs in them. But what do you do about the Radio Shack computer in the Logging Shack? The one that is all one piece with an 8 line LED display. The one that is programmed in real Basic.
I can tell you, not from experience, that, if you start getting any crazy ideas about installing C++ .NET on it and changing it from serial communications, only, to something else, or swap it out with a new computer and duplicate the program in C++ .NET, you'd better squash those ideas in the bud. If not, the regional manager will restrict you from all of his facilities, forever. Why? Think about it. For me, the first phrase that comes to mind is "Too stupid to live."
Well, this started with Hello. Based on the welcome, I guess it ends here, with Goodbye.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 07:24 AM
#28
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Hi!
Me and my friends way back in college have consulted an electric company. The interacting process were written in legacy code basically
C. When there was a management transition, some of the process were later updated to include graph and statistics which
is a limitation in old-style C. The management were hesitant that we use C++.NET. But, after presenting them with mock applications,
they were later convinced that we use C++.NET/GUI thing. I believe it depends on the management if they're into the GUI thing or
the plain old DOS face.
Well, this started with Hello. Based on the welcome, I guess it ends here, with Goodbye.
Perhaps you can be an active contributor in the C/C++ section.
KG
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Nov 27th, 2013, 07:31 AM
#29
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Honduras 2811
So suppose the first assignment you get is to upgrade a station. You show up at the site with a van full of new computers with new programs in them. But what do you do about the Radio Shack computer in the Logging Shack? The one that is all one piece with an 8 line LED display. The one that is programmed in real Basic.
No one is under any illusions that you can use VB.Net to program an embedded system or any type of archaic processor powered machine. There are development tools for those. You use those tools for that purpose. But for the hundreds of millions of users of some form of WinNT based OS, we can get along quite well with .Net on Windows as a development platform. If you want to use a toothbrush to scrub your floor then you go right ahead, don't expect us to endorse such thinking. Windows does what I need it to do. Windows development tools do what I need them to do. That is all that matters and all that ever will as far as I'm concerned. I care little for all this smoke and mirrors nonsense about MS being an "evil cooporation" or their bad anti-trust practices or any of that. That's not my job. Leave that to the politicians and lawyers. I want to write code for a solid platform on a solid platform and MS meets those needs with their products.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 08:07 AM
#30
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Before 10 SUCCESSFUL years as a programming consultant
I hope that, when you are my age, you can say the same thing.
You need to set foot in the real world, possibly for the first time. Try consulting for the Oil and Gas industry for a few years. You might end up with a better understanding of a lot of things.
Now, ya see, that's a large part of your problem right there. You assume that anyone who disagrees with you is obviously new to development and doesn't know what they're doing so allow me to introduce myself. I've been working in industry for a little over twenty years. You might have picked up on a clue earlier when I referenced programming on a ZX spectrum, that was about thirty years ago but I was just a hobbyist back then. I actually started on a ZX81. In that time I've been a developer, an analyst, a project manager and a development manager (along with various derivations of those titles). I'm currently working as a development contractor because I found the whole management thing tedious and wanted to get back to the nuts and bolts. I've worked with BBCBasic, whatever the hell Sinclair were calling their basic, QBasic, C, C++, Java, Ada, VB4 to 6, VC++, VB.Net and C# (frameworks 2 to 4.5) and a proprietary language call KCML. I've worked with SQLServer (all versions since 7, Oracle 8i and 9i, MySQL, PostGre, MongoDB, Paradox and KDB (the proprietary database that went with KCML). My current contract is with one of the 10 largest companies in the world (I'm afraid I can't name them on a public forum). The team I work for is building artificial intelligence algorithms to diagnose emergent technical faults in aeroplane engines. It's amazing stuff and I'm grateful to be here because I'm learning a huge amount. I apologise if that all sounds boastful but I can't think of a better way of responding to you... bless your little cotton socks.
What to use to write the programs and how long you expect to be able to support it are two of the most important parts of the design process
I absolutely agree and is why I keep my toolbox as wide as possible. You'll notice that I haven't at any point said that C is a bad language or that Borland can't knock up a decent compiler. I've used both, though not recently, and will be happy to do so again when the situation demands it. I'm a firm believer in using the right tool for the job which is why I'm so perplexed at your dismissal of one of the single largest toolboxes on the market on the basis that you don't like Microsoft. You are hurting yourself out of some miss-placed sense of superiority.
Unlike what's his face said, Mickeysoft (Hey, I've been calling them that for 30 years. Why change now?) has had an effect on the direction of OS development, which dictated an effect on programming languages, that no one person or group should be allowed to have.
I assume I'm the "what's his face" in question so allow me to quote the exchange to which I believe you are referring back to you.
Imagine if he hadn't been able to do that. There wouldn't be any Mickeysoft now and computer programming would probably be years ahead of where we are, even if not in the same direction
Ah yes, it would be like the glorious 80s when there were about a dozen different target platforms a developer could specialize in and never the twain met. Yep, those days were great when, if I wanted to be able to target a broad customer base, I needed to know 8 different languages and programming paradigms. You know, I think I've got a pair of luminous green socks around here somewhere that I'm going to put on, just for old times sake. Life just not been the same since I had a zx spectrum who's language set was small enough for each command to be given its own rubber key.
I'm not clear where in that you think I said that Microsoft haven't had an effect on OS direction or programming. Indeed, I believe they've had an extremely profound and welcome one.
Well, this started with Hello
No, it started with you posting a message on VBForums (there's a clue in the title as to the general emphasis on this forum) about how much you hated Miocrosoft and how rubbich you think the Visual suite of languages are. What sort of response were you expecting?
Last edited by FunkyDexter; Nov 27th, 2013 at 08:41 AM.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill
Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd
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Nov 27th, 2013, 01:24 PM
#31
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Normally, I'd agree that no one company should so utterly dominate the industry. But I, too, lived through the dark days of the 80s when there was no dominant OS. If you saw a game or program you liked, you'd have to first find out whether it was written for the OS you had, and if not, was there anything like it? The answer was generally no. Your choice of OS could largely drive what you could do because it restricted your software options.
Of course, these days there's the web and web apps, so perhaps the OS will go away entirely. Until that happens, everybody runs Windows because that's where the software is. Pure Apple or Linux packages exist, but they are pretty rare.
I want my software to run on all the computers it needs to. I could make it web (can't actually, as there isn't enough functionality to the web yet) to have it run in a browser, or I could specify the OS. It's a relief not to have to do the latter. I don't want to go back to the days when two or three mutually-exculsive camps existed. Nor are we going in that direction. Web app advocates who talk of the end of the OS are talking largely about the end of camps entirely: Your software runs on ALL platforms, regardless of OS or hardware. We aren't there yet, but we may be getting there.
Don't be bitter about life, it isn't permanent.
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 27th, 2013, 01:24 PM
#32
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Honduras 2811
It is obvious that our experiences in life have been completely different. I am comfortable with my choices. I hope that, when you are my age, you can say the same thing.
By the way, have you ever met a really competent Mickeysoft programmer. If not, don't feel bad. No one else has either.
You're right. I've spent my life surrounded by programmers who blame themselves for bad code, not the language.
As for your last comment, everything you say leads me to believe you're quite old. A shame you act like a 10 year old. This entire site is filled with competent programmers that have spent most of their careers working in a Microsoft environment.
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Nov 27th, 2013, 01:29 PM
#33
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
And the occasional fish biologist.
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 28th, 2013, 03:08 AM
#34
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
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Nov 28th, 2013, 11:51 AM
#35
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by kfcSmitty
You're right. I've spent my life surrounded by programmers who blame themselves for bad code, not the language.
As for your last comment, everything you say leads me to believe you're quite old. A shame you act like a 10 year old. This entire site is filled with competent programmers that have spent most of their careers working in a Microsoft environment.
I don't remember saying that you can't produce usable code with Mickeysoft products, or anything like that.
I don't remember suggesting that anyone who posts here is incompetent.
I do remember marking the thread as 'RESOLVED'.
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Nov 28th, 2013, 12:04 PM
#36
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Do you remember posting in Chit-Chat?
If so, I would point out that nothing is EVER resolved in Chit-Chat. People just wander away...eventually.
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 28th, 2013, 12:42 PM
#37
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Do you remember posting in Chit-Chat
To be fair he didn't. He posted in C and C++ but Sid moved the thread, I'm guessing because the OP wasn't a question but rather an introduction and CC's usually the right place for that. He might have got a slightly better reception in C/C++ though I doubt it.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill
Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd
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Nov 28th, 2013, 01:06 PM
#38
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Honduras 2811
I don't remember saying that you can't produce usable code with Mickeysoft products, or anything like that.
You did right here:
Originally Posted by Honduras 2811
By the way, have you ever met a really competent Mickeysoft programmer. If not, don't feel bad. No one else has either.
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Nov 28th, 2013, 01:23 PM
#39
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 28th, 2013, 02:16 PM
#40
Thread Starter
Lively Member
Re: [RESOLVED] Hello All. Let Me introduce Myself.
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Do you remember posting in Chit-Chat?
If so, I would point out that nothing is EVER resolved in Chit-Chat. People just wander away...eventually.
I did not open a thread in Chit-chat. The forum moderator moved the thread here.
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