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Thread: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

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    Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    We are on a domain and we just purchased a pc which we plan on using as a 'back-up' server if ever something wrong happens to our current one. The thing is, we are currently using a Server OS and we are on a domain. The newly arrived pc have Windows 7 as its OS.

    Could we, in disaster scenarios, just shift to this Windows 7 computer? That is, connect/point all our workstations (around 10-15) to it and it should work?
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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    If it's just for SQL Server or some other RDBMS then there's no issue. You don't need a server OS in that case.

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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    I am not an expert on Server OS and my worry is about the domain, if our current server which has a server OS is down then will we still be able to log-in to our computers using our domain accounts? Sorry, not sure if this is a database question.
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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    Quote Originally Posted by dee-u View Post
    I am not an expert on Server OS and my worry is about the domain, if our current server which has a server OS is down then will we still be able to log-in to our computers using our domain accounts? Sorry, not sure if this is a database question.
    As I said, if it's just a database server then you've got no issue. If it's your primary domain controller then that is an issue. That's why you have a backup domain controller but that is a server function and requires a server OS. Obviously you would have to pay for the license but you can always replace Windows 7 on that machine with Windows Server. You don't have to have dedicated server hardware to run a server OS. I've got Windows Server 2012 running on a PC I built myself from standard PC components with no issues at all.

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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    I'm pretty sure the Enterprise and BI edtion SQL server requires to be intstalled on a server OS. If you just running the standard edition then you're fine.

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    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    OK... I'll bite... what does SQL Server have to do with anything in the original post? No where does dee-u mention SQL Server... just that the server in question is a Server, not just a workstation masquerading as one... and that is is the Domain Controller. jmc brought it up in post #2, but I think only as a clarification question (rightfully so)... by post #3 I think it's established that we're talking about a domain controller server... and not just a database one so the database issue becomes largely moot... but...

    As far as I know the way it should be setup, is one server should be setup as the PDC - Primary Domain Controller... then there should be at least one other server that's the SDC - Secondary Domain Controller that should be able to take over in the event that the PDC fails.

    And here's the but part... IF the server is being used as a database server, or for ANYTHING other than just the PDC... you need to make sure that it is replicated in some form to an alternate server... because if the PDC is also your main SQL Server... and it goes down... if you have a SDC, you'll be able to login, but you won't be able to hit the database (actually you may not even still depending on the connection string) unless it's been replicated and you can route the connections to the new server... ideally though if it's that critical enough, it's on its own server and is part of a server farm, in which case it then no longer matters what happens to the PDC.


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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    I've lost my DOMAIN server months ago - and didn't want to replace it (power consumption - yadda, yadda)...

    At any rate - all the PC's remember the DOMAIN logins and still can use them - odd how that works.

    Setup the box for a test now - make it WINDOWS AUTHENTICATION - and see that it in fact works.

    Then disconnect it from your network (reboot obviously) and see if you can get on "locally" still with the AD authentication mode in SQL server.

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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    OK... I'll bite... what does SQL Server have to do with anything in the original post? No where does dee-u mention SQL Server... just that the server in question is a Server, not just a workstation masquerading as one... and that is is the Domain Controller. jmc brought it up in post #2, but I think only as a clarification question (rightfully so)... by post #3 I think it's established that we're talking about a domain controller server... and not just a database one so the database issue becomes largely moot...
    Well, the thread has been posted in the Database Development forum so I don't think that it's at all illogical to assume that we're talking about a database server. If the original question was actually about a BDC then why the hell is the thread in a development forum at all? Someone with dee-u's experience should know better. I will ask the mods to move this thread somewhere more appropriate.

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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    Well, yes, its our database server (SQL Server) which has a Server OS. All I want is that our programs (not done by me, purchased before I was hired) will still be able to connect to some 'server' if our current server goes down for some reason. The program lets me choose to what SQL Server to connect to so perhaps I could point it to another computer.
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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    Quote Originally Posted by dee-u View Post
    Well, yes, its our database server (SQL Server) which has a Server OS. All I want is that our programs (not done by me, purchased before I was hired) will still be able to connect to some 'server' if our current server goes down for some reason. The program lets me choose to what SQL Server to connect to so perhaps I could point it to another computer.
    OK, so my assumption was correct in the first place. I blame tg for leading me astray. In that case, the answer is as I gave it in post #2. You can install a supported edition of SQL Server on that Windows 7 box and use Replication to keep it in sync with the server. As far as I'm aware, Replication will work in that scenario, although szlamany would be a better authority on that. If the server goes down then you can just change all your connection strings to point to the workstation instance and you're good to go.

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    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    And let that be a lesson to dee-u for not supplying all of the relevant info up front... he should know better... and let that be a lesson to the rest of you for trying to follow me... what the heck do I know?

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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    let that be a lesson to the rest of you for trying to follow me... what the heck do I know?

    -tg
    Obviously far less than I gave you credit for. I now know better.

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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    I would recommend setting up a second (windows 7) sql server as a mirror instead of replication. With mirrored sql server, you will automatically be connected to the "windows7" if the main db server goes down (if you are using a .net client, it's a simple web/app.cofing setting). There is a 1-2 seconds delay but it is transparent for the client.

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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    Does anyone have concern about mirror and/or replication from a "server" level SQL instance to a "desktop" level SQL instance?

    I do...

    @dee-u - are you looking for this to be a "hot" instance - always available? Or are you looking to be able to move the DB from production to this box as manual step?

    Also - what is the current maintenance plan setup for the production box - backups when - transaction backups when?

    And finally - are you doing a FULL INSTALL of SQL on this new box? Fully licensed and all - or are you using EXPRESS on the new box.

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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    Not necessarily a 'hot' instance, I just want to be able to set-up another database server when the need arises. As of now, we have this full database back-up every 12 hours, at 6PM and at 6AM. And I am saving these back-ups to an external harddisk. We have a FULL install on this new box.

    I do not have any experience regarding mirroring or replication. In a previous job, what I did was to create a program that will automatically back-up a server, copy it to another box and restore and somehow it works but on that job they just both have Windows 7 with just 5 users only. Now, we have a domain and not sure what are my options. This server is running nonstop since 2010 and I am not sure how long it would take before any of its peripherals goes down so we purchased a 'back-up' server now before its too late.
    Regards,


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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    If you added hourly "transaction" log backups - and also moved them off the disk - then you could restore the 12-hour-backup - apply as many hourly transaction log backups as you have - and then have at most a 60 minute data loss.

    Many of my customers do this (municipalities and school districts).

    I recall having to restore from this type of setup at least twice in the past decade.

    When RAID's go bad they do so in an strange and unpredictable way...

    Not sure I would go to the trouble of "having the restore done" on a regular basis.

    But regardless - you can setup a BACKUP copy on this new server now and see how and if users can connect.

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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    You can setup a mirror using SQL Management Studio (although you can also do it through T-SQL). Every db administrator absolutely MUST backup a transaction log as well as database itself. Log grows, if you don't back it up, it will get to a point that the file becomes so large, your entire application will just hang. Just read up on mirroring your server, it's not difficult but it will save you a HUGE headache restoring your db and all transaction log backups. It takes time and during that time your application will be offline. Mirror will give you piece of mind. The only thing is, you will have to manually reset the "main" server after fixing it but at least this will be transparent to clients.

  18. #18

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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    Hmmnn... When I checked the transaction log of our 8GB database is just a little below 2MB, how is that? I haven't delved much into backing up the transaction log before, how does that work when restoring the database? For instance, if I back-up our databasel like:

    6AM - MDF
    8AM - LDF
    10AM - LDF

    Then at about 11AM disaster striked. I would then have to restore the 6AM database back-up. How do I go about those 2 transaction log back-ups?

    I am even more afraid to try this mirroring/replication thingy.
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    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 7: As a 'back-up' database server?

    It's not that you are backing up and restoring the MDF or the LDF - you are restoring either FULL or TRANSACTION LOG backups...

    You restore the first FULL BACKUP - that makes the MDF and LDF that you need

    Code:
    Restore Database Acctfiles
    From Disk='E:\Backup\Acctfiles_backup_201110121800.bak'
    With Move 'Acctfiles_data' to 'e:\datafiles\Acctfiles.mdf',
    Move 'Acctfiles_log' to 'f:\logfiles\Acctfiles.ldf',
    NoRecovery
    The NORECOVERY part is important - it leaves the DATABASE waiting for more and more RESTORES of TRANSACTION LOG backups.

    Code:
    Restore Log Acctfiles
    From Disk='E:\Backup\Acctfiles_backup_201110121900.trn',
       With NoRecovery;
    That restores the TRANSACTION LOG backup on top of the DATABASE.

    You repeat this step until you have gotten all the .TRN's restored that are "good" - keeping in mind that RAID's fail in odd ways and usually end up corrupting a part of the disk and thus the database itself.

    You finish with

    Code:
    Restore Database Acctfiles with Recovery
    Which marks the DATABASE as ready for operation.

    A FULL BACKUP (.BAK) is all the contents of the MDF, which is committed and WRITTEN-FROM-THE-LOG DATA (this writing of data from LDF to MDF is done with lazy-time algorithms).

    A FULL BACKUP (.BAK) also contains all the contents of the LDF file that are COMMITTED transactions.

    This is how a RESTORE of a .BAK can be done without including transactions that were open when the BACKUP was actually performed.

    A TRANSACTION LOG (.TRN) backup is just a backup of COMMITTED transactions from the .LOG file. That is why it is fine to restore them on top of a FULL BACKUP.

    Hope this makes sense.

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