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Thread: Sorry guys but I'm done!

  1. #1

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    PowerPoster dunfiddlin's Avatar
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    Sorry guys but I'm done!

    You may be able to put up with the ridiculous, unfair, humourless repression of free speech that this forum is ... no that one moderator seems to think should be but after the shameless backing down of punishing an overtly abusive disrespectful member yesterday while I'm continually brought to task for nothing more than a bit of banter, but I can't. As long as <name of one specific member> gets to say what the &%@$ he likes but I have to justify every single sentence I type this clearly is not the place for me. It's been fun but if the moderators are going to play favourites then I'm done.

    I would like to thank all those members who have welcomed my contributions and offered their support in a myriad of ways through my recent life crisis. It's a shame that your example is not emulated by those who have somehow got themselves into positions of power. Dunfiddlin out. And I mean OUT!
    Last edited by Joacim Andersson; Jan 22nd, 2014 at 08:06 AM. Reason: Since I deleted the reply of <one specific member> that was mentioned and also told him not to reply, I removed his name.
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Well, that's a point of view. Frankly, this is a pretty polite forum, which is largely due to politeness being enforced. Having also run afoul of whatever rule somebody had (for a pun...though a somewhat blue one), I'd have to say that it's a correction that I can live with. The greater goal is achieved. Could a different set of rules have done as well, or a different set of standards enforced in a different way by other people? Perhaps.

    Everybody has the right to make their own choice, though.

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  3. #3
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    It's funny! Whenever we warn people about their behaviour we usually do that by sending them a PM. During the last year I've sent a warning PM to you Dunfiddling about once every month, before I gave you a short ban for a week. The problem is that you never read any of them! Now you want to complain about another member which I've treated in the same manner, Warned Via PM which read: "Repeat and your Banned!" - When it comes to <the member you mentioned> he did reply to my warning and promised not to do it again. When it comes to you???? Never replied, kept on going... Who is the one that should be banned????? If you do not reply to a warning from us Moderators, or even care to the read the warnings we give you, who's the one to blame? Us moderators or our members that don't give a sh*t?
    Last edited by Joacim Andersson; Mar 2nd, 2014 at 05:00 AM.

  4. #4
    Still learning kebo's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    bummer.... you got a lot of stuff in your head that you should be sharing with others.
    Process control doesn't give you good quality, it gives you consistent quality.
    Good quality comes from consistently doing the right things.

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    Last edited by kebo : Now. Reason: superfluous typo's

  5. #5
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Well there is always the Mos Eisley Cantina (Usenet).

  6. #6
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    I hate to see you go, but in the end if I can get back all the possible new members you scared away........ I rather have those back than keeping one single offensive member (oh, and unless Google been blown off the planet by an evil alien ray gun diverted via the Sky satellite, you might be able to query it for the statistics of the number of possible new members you've scared away, and if you've known yourself anything about Dijkstra algorithm you might not have misspelled it in the exact same way the OP did)
    Last edited by Joacim Andersson; Jan 21st, 2014 at 10:29 PM.

  7. #7
    Android OpenGL ES Guru Jacob Roman's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    I wish I can count the times that I've been banned from this place

    I'm gonna miss you dun.

  8. #8
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Sorry, but are we moderators treating different members differently? The quick answer is YES! We do! We are unfair!!!!

    These are the guide lines for how we treat members:
    1. You are a completely new member and your first post reads "Low cost pills to make your di*k larger". Result: Deleted thread, banned for life!
    2. New member asking how to to circumvent a captcha image. Result: Written warning in the thread about why that is against our AUP rules; Thread closed. Repeated offence=Banned for life.
    3. Member that have been around for a while that breaks any kind of rule. Result: Written warning via PM, repeated offence will turn into a ban!
    4. Old and valuable member (yes, post count and reputation do actually count) that breaks the rules. Result: Written warning via PM, repeated offence will turn into a ban! (No reputation didn't actually count at all, I'm so sorry if I mislead you). We do however expect to get a reply and if we do we might overlook it, if not then Result: Short ban.
    5. Old and valuable member that repeats the same mistake they've already been warned and banned for. Result: Banned for life.

    Yeah, we are so unfair... We warn people before we ban them... <yuck>

    The end result: It doesn't matter what other people do! The only thing that matters is what *YOU* do.

  9. #9
    Still learning kebo's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    I'd say he's dun
    Process control doesn't give you good quality, it gives you consistent quality.
    Good quality comes from consistently doing the right things.

    Vague general questions have vague general answers.
    A $100 donation is required for me to help you if you PM me asking for help. Instructions for donating to one of our local charities will be provided.

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    Last edited by kebo : Now. Reason: superfluous typo's

  10. #10
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Please don't ban the posts of low cost pills that make your di*k larger, i mean...Errr, oopsss.
    Ehh, anyhow. If i want to blow off steam i usually use a sports forum, more tolerant there or of course the good ol' DC forum but is a little difficult to get banned there(i can ban you though).
    I've used this forum to get info for hobby programming but most importantly used a lot (and i mean a lot) in the early days for my job. So i respect the rules.
    So now that i think I've learned a few tricks, played it good and faithful, my scheme is to bring the forum down and delete everything ever written here.DOS DOS DOS!!
    I think dun wasn't irritating for my standards but i had a lot of fights in forums and i can tolerate this behavior, other people can not. He was more sarcastic than abusive but i guess that does not make it OK for admins.
    Anyhow good thing he was not around a couple of years ago to make comments on my noob posts. He would get a despicable force of abuse that would result on a double ban.So yeah, kudos
    Slow as hell.

  11. #11
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson View Post
    It's funny! Whenever we warn people about their behaviour we usually do that by sending them a PM. During the last year I've sent a warning PM to you Dunfiddling about once every month, before I gave you a short ban for a week. The problem is that you never read any of them! Now you want to complain about another member which I've treated in the same manner, Warned Via PM which read: "Repeat and your Banned!" - When it comes to Mucker he did reply to my warning and promised not to do it again. When it comes to you???? Never replied, kept on going... Who is the one that should be banned????? If you do not reply to a warning from us Moderators, or even care to the read the warnings we give you, who's the one to blame? Us moderators or our members that don't give a sh*t?
    I'm not picking sides but I got a PM warning from a moderator for using "sh*t". Well not "sh*t" but using astericks to not use the actual profanity. Apparently that is no different from using the word.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  12. #12
    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Due to an unusual large number of complaints from members about "rudeness" Brad ran an announcement for a few weeks...

    Being a Great Community!

    As we are moving into the holiday season, I wanted to simply through out a reminder that VBForums is a community site. Whenever you have a lot of people, there are bound to be clashes, misinterpretations, and misunderstandings.

    With the exception of the spammers, at the end of the day, nearly everyone on this forum is working to try to help others get better. It is easy to misinterpret messages or add tone. It is also easy to be gruff when you didn't necessarily need to be.

    I'd like to simply remind people in the spirit of the holidays, to remember peace and joy when writing your posts! Let's be constructive rather than destructive. I thought it was a good time for a gentle reminder!

    Thanks!

    Brad!

    (As to the spammers, the mods will annihilate their accounts as they are found!)
    Anyway - when a member gets several warnings...we kind of expect them change their ways and to come back from the dark side

  13. #13
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    I'm not picking sides but I got a PM warning from a moderator for using "sh*t". Well not "sh*t" but using astericks to not use the actual profanity. Apparently that is no different from using the word.
    Yeah, but we've always been more tolerable about the language used in Chit-Chat compared to any of the other forums.

  14. #14
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson View Post
    Yeah, but we've always been more tolerable about the language used in Chit-Chat compared to any of the other of the forums.
    OK...as I said I'm not picking sides. It could probably be a whole other thread but often people let the amonymity of the internet get to them and say things they never would to someone's face. Or at least if they were in punching range
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  15. #15
    Fanatic Member namrekka's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Keep up dunfiddlin. Negative things happens. But there are positive things happen too.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Sorry to see you go, Dun, but mods have to do what mods have to do. I think part of the problem in cases like this is that you only get to see the pm that the mod sends you, you don't get to see the one that he sends the other guy. That can leave things feeling a bit one sided even when the mod is actually being entirely even handed.

    And I'm personally over the moon to see the mods starting to encourage us all to not just follow the strict letter of the rules but to generally be nicer to each other, particularly to new members. Some folks just need a bit of time to grow and mature and I think the amount of "public dressing down" has grown markedly over the last two or three years. I think it's unprofessional when I see a manager do it to someone in the middle of the office and I think the same applies here.

    I'm not picking sides...
    To be fair I think that's the only time I've ever seen Joacim's ice-cool Swedish calm crack, even a little bit. I've never fathomed how the Scandewgians manage to be sooo laid back. I guess they just got the whole raping and pillaging thing out of their system in the 8th century.
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  17. #17
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Probably against my better judgement, I'm going to chime in - I know for a fact that the steps that JA posted in #8 aren't always followed. I've had posts disappear somewhat mysteriously over the years. No explanation, not warning, nothing. POOF! A couple of them, I fully expected to be vaporized. There have been a couple times when I posted something I knew fully well would likely get it deleted. In at least one occasions I even alluded to that fact in the post itself. Fine, what ever. But at the same time, there have been posts of mine that go the way of the Dodo, never to be heard from again. No explanation, no warning nothing. I'm simply left with a subscription to a thread, where I suddenly don't have a posting and no clue what it was I said. So, yeah, there are times when people are treated differently.

    Not sure what's been Dun's issue lately, but I can only guess. Personally I'm a bit sick of some of the people in this forum as well. It might be the timing with end of terms approaching, and people suddenly realize that programming isn't the Basket Weaving 101 they thought it would be, or if it's the I want to change, but keep using the same old same old I've used for hte last 30 years, to the don't you dare tell me to do something different, to the petty squabbling over whether it's better to use vbCrLf or Environment.NewLine - yeah, I know some of the people in this thread are also in the other thread. Then there's the arguments that erupt when someone asks how to do something and someone questions why are you trying to do it that way or what you're asking for doesn't makes sense, what are you doing, and someone else, sometimes it's the OP, other times it isn't, will snipply ask or comment, what difference does that make, or, it has no bearing on the answer, or, and yes, I've seen this, just answer the question (alternatively, there's the if you don't have a direct answer, why are you bothering to reply?)

    Half the time Dun says the exact thing I'm thinking. The difference is that he hasn't learned how to filter it (or may he chooses not to, not sure) whereas I have. Sadly it's also led to a growing internal list of posters whose threads I ignore. It's also frustrating when you see misinformation out there, and when you try to correct it, you get jumped all over (see aforementioned don't tell me to do things differently comment) and it's increasingly coming from the newer generation. Quite frankly it scares the crap out of me.

    Trying to help people on this forum is frustrating at times. At times it's the very definition of insanity. And sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

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  18. #18
    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    There have been a couple times when I posted something I knew fully well would likely get it deleted. In at least one occasions I even alluded to that fact in the post itself. Fine, what ever. But at the same time, there have been posts of mine that go the way of the Dodo, never to be heard from again. No explanation, no warning nothing. I'm simply left with a subscription to a thread, where I suddenly don't have a posting and no clue what it was I said. So, yeah, there are times when people are treated differently.
    We love stories like this... Thanks... It Helps others...

    Joacim gave a nice "general overview" on how things are done... And even then, things are done differently by each mod and can change on a whim...

    1.Delete posts/words that shouldn't be there
    2.Delete posts/words that shouldn't be there and send a PM
    3.Delete posts/words that shouldn't be there send a PM and publicly chastise the offender

    From time to time I'll ONLY do #1 due to time constraints when I should do the third option...

    Or what might seems like a minor infraction will get #3 - due in part that the offender is a repeat offender.

    But yes, we try to be consistent....

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Well there is always the Mos Eisley Cantina (Usenet).
    Never seen that name written down. Took a moment to figure out the reference, but it's a good one.
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  20. #20
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve R Jones View Post
    From time to time I'll ONLY do #1 due to time constraints when I should do the third option...
    Yeah, me too, but you can't live like that for long. It'll catch up to you, eventually (though I'm not sure quite what the third option is....oh wait a minute, took that line out of context....)


    Just today I was writing a post where I had several comments on the OP code that weren't directly relevant to the question that was asked, but which was about code that was likely to cause the OP trouble down the road. I answered the question (and even edited it a bit because it needed it), but I also recommended a different pracitice in a different part of the code. That might well appear off subject, and therefore could be seen by the OP as being overly critical, as it was a suggestion to change something unrelated to the question.

    It's an odd line, and one that doesn't really lend itself to written communication. In a verbal discussion, a question can open up a dialog that can travel into areas unrelated to the actual question without causing any offense. In written communication, where tone and other cues are necessarily absent (emoticons are stupid ), different interpretations than the one intended are possible.

    I see a range of sarcasm in the long-standing members. Everyone falls somewhere on the scale. One might expect that if you were long-standing, you shouldn't be prone, but some people are both long-standing AND prone....but I digress to provide this opunion of the matter. The point is that you get an idea, over time, of the level of sarcasm employed by a member, and people don't generally move far from whatever level they attain. A bit of variation about their mean sarcasm level, or their mean meanness, but it's unusual to see a large deviation for any one member. This makes me think that the general tone of a frequent poster says something about their outlook on life, or viewpoint in general, or some such larger measure. Dun was more sarcastic than I would want to be, and was the most biting of all the frequent posters. I can understand the corrections, because of this, but considering some of the CC things that Dun said, I suspect that he may have some bitterness in the rest of his life. The useful things he did may be the triumph of humanity over circumstance.

    And having been serious for several sentences, I should also add that the mean mean of the mean members is still better than the mean mean of most forums. Therefore, I mean: The mean mean mean is still pretty high, which I would consider a meaningful stat.
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  21. #21
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson View Post
    ...but in the end if I can get back all the possible new members you scared away..
    The first time I really noticed dun he had made some comment to some OP that I found offensive - I think I even posted back at him and we got in a stupid-little PM exchange. Whatever...

    He was rude to the OP and I felt that person would probably never post back at this forum.

    People are noobs - people are lazy - people don't want to read MSDN. I've gotten used to JMC slapping people for the later - but I never got used to bar-room barb's for all those traits. Dun's typical first post to an OP was "what the hell are you thinking..."

    I like to live by "you can't tell someone something they already know". Noobs know it - lazy people know it...

    The task at hand is to answer technical questions - that's it. No need for drama - jeez!

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  22. #22
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    people don't want to read MSDN. I've gotten used to JMC slapping people for the later
    Heh, heh...
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  23. #23
    Android OpenGL ES Guru Jacob Roman's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!


  24. #24
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Roman View Post
    As you wish Jacob, you're banned for life... again... (just kidding)

  25. #25
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    some people are both long-standing AND prone
    Now, I know you've got a habit of slipping puns under the radar but I genuinely don't know whether that one was deliberate or not...

    I have to say, I never had a problem with Dun. To be honest I never even noticed he was overly sarcastic but that's probably because our paths rarely crossed outside the CC where it's kinda par for the course. In CC one member's acerbic comments just dissapear amongst the general banter all to easily and go un-noticed. In CC nobody can hear you sarcasm. On the other hand I've almost never seen Joacim actually feel the need to moderate and on the couple of occasions he has I've always thought it was more than deserved so I'm inclined to believe that where there's smoke there's fire. (He is wrong about it being ok to use vbCrLf though which is against God and nature)

    I personally don't like the telling off I see us doing on the forums but I can understand it. None of us want our time wasted and none of us like the idea that someone asking for free cod will somehow manage to squeak through their exams and turn up, grinning inanely, at the desk next to us in a few months time happily destroying the elegant coding perfection we slaved over a hot lap top to produce last year. It's really, really tempting to put those kind of folks in their place and I know I've faield to resist that temptation on a few occasions, though I really do try hard. But you don't have to go after those guys and if you do you WILL drive them away. And then you will have denied them the chance to grow into a valued member. And we should all value our members.

    If you want proof that people can change, look how long it's been since JR got banned.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Jan 23rd, 2014 at 03:54 AM.
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  26. #26
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    He knew it was a pun by the intentional spelling at the end

    some people are both long-standing AND prone....but I digress to provide this opunion of the matter.

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  27. #27
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Ooh, I missed that. Subtle.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  28. #28
    PowerPoster SJWhiteley's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    I always saw this forum as a place to blow off a little steam, so you can get back to dealing with the annoyances that life throws at you without going postal...sooooo...don't be so sensitive, moderators are [G]god, and you'll live without vbforums.com - it's not very important in the grand scheme of things, and if you make it so then you really will have problems.

    I've not seen any real problems with Dun's postings - although I don't fully agree with some - but maybe I haven't been paying attention. If Noobs are being scared off by a few snarky comments, then all I can do is laugh in their pitiful face! Seriously? Do we feel a need to protect those who can't wipe their own arse from the 'harsh' realities of the innertoobs?
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  29. #29
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    On the other hand I've almost never seen Joacim actually feel the need to moderate and on the couple of occasions he has I've always thought it was more than deserved so I'm inclined to believe that where there's smoke there's fire. (He is wrong about it being ok to use vbCrLf though which is against God and nature)
    I'm probably the most active moderator here, the fact that you haven't noticed it just means that I must be doing the job correctly. (I advocate for vbNewLine, but perhaps it's also against God and nature when I use "\n" or "\r\n" in C# or that I should stop using named constants all together and only use properties such as Environment.NewLine? How about ControlChars.NewLine? )

  30. #30
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    How about ControlChars.NewLine?
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  31. #31
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by SJWhiteley View Post
    If Noobs are being scared off by a few snarky comments, then all I can do is laugh in their pitiful face! Seriously? Do we feel a need to protect those who can't wipe their own arse from the 'harsh' realities of the innertoobs?
    Well, let's look at an example of those snarky comments shall we? Here's a question posted by a new member:
    Hello

    In my project, i use the api GetAsyncKeystate and i proceed like that..

    I want to detect a keypress with getasynckeystate

    I searched and i find how to do that.

    Now, my app detects the F1 key, but i don't want other apps detects that,

    I press F1 => But the focused windows (Not MY app) show the help of the software.

    I just want to detect the key, but without any other application detects it.

    Thanks guys (Don't blame me, i'm french, sorry for bad english)
    And what was dunfiddlin's helpful reply?
    Quote Originally Posted by dunfiddlin
    What's the French for megalomania?
    In what universe is such a remark considered as just friendly banter? This is BTW, not the comment which I banned him for.
    Last edited by Joacim Andersson; Jan 23rd, 2014 at 09:58 AM.

  32. #32
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    The work of the devil I tells ye.
    I see, you belong to the camp who thinks Microsoft is the devil.

  33. #33
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Do we feel a need to protect those who...
    On a games forum or moview forum I'd be inclined to agree but I think tech forums are different.

    I've lead teams of seasoned programmers who I had to literally (deliberate misuse for TG's benefit) force, kicking and screaming to post a question on a forum when they got stuck. They were absolutely petrified of letting the anonymous world of techies know that their knowledge might be anything less than detailed and encyclopoedic. For a true noob who's new to prgramming it's even worse. They can see there's a mountain to climb but the top's shrouded in mist, they don't know where to go to hire a guide and even if they did they don't understand the language the guide uses so don't know how to communicate with them. Personally, I've got the hide of a rhino (and that's no bull) but I can fully understand how intimidating a tech site can be to the uninitiated.

    So how must it feel to someone of that personality type when they finally pluck up the courage to post their somewhat clumsy question, probably half knowing that they're not articulating it well, and the first response is for someone with a post count in the tens of thousands and more gems than the queen to immediately tell them they're an idiot in a very public manner?

    And it's not just the postee who's likely to be affected, it's every other lurker who reads rather than posts. I tend to be one of those lurker types. I lurked round here gazing admiringly at the Hacks, Mendhaks and Robdogs for about a year before I first posted. It's largely because the "senior" members that were on this forum '04/'05 were freindly and supportive to new members that I'm part of this community now. I still lurk round stack overflow and will probably never post because I don't like the often high-handed culture over there. I'm also a member of SQLServer central but still tend to post my DB questions here first because I find it freindlier here (SSC is actually very good but they do tend to be VERY unforgiving of anyone who doesn't immediately follow their culture).

    Yes, some questions are inane. Some posters are lazy. And the fact that someone posts in that fashion is, frankly, disrespectful to all of us. But if you repay that disrespect in kind you're really no better than they are. Politeness costs nothing.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  34. #34
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    On a games forum or moview forum I'd be inclined to agree but I think tech forums are different.

    I've lead teams of seasoned programmers who I had to literally (deliberate misuse for TG's benefit) force, kicking and screaming to post a question on a forum when they got stuck. They were absolutely petrified of letting the anonymous world of techies know that their knowledge might be anything less than detailed and encyclopoedic. For a true noob who's new to prgramming it's even worse. They can see there's a mountain to climb but the top's shrouded in mist, they don't know where to go to hire a guide and even if they did they don't understand the language the guide uses so don't know how to communicate with them. Personally, I've got the hide of a rhino (and that's no bull) but I can fully understand how intimidating a tech site can be to the uninitiated.

    So how must it feel to someone of that personality type when they finally pluck up the courage to post their somewhat clumsy question, probably half knowing that they're not articulating it well, and the first response is for someone with a post count in the tens of thousands and more gems than the queen to immediately tell them they're an idiot in a very public manner?

    And it's not just the postee who's likely to be affected, it's every other lurker who reads rather than posts. I tend to be one of those lurker types. I lurked round here gazing admiringly at the Hacks, Mendhaks and Robdogs for about a year before I first posted. It's largely because the "senior" members that were on this forum '04/'05 were freindly and supportive to new members that I'm part of this community now. I still lurk round stack overflow and will probably never post because I don't like the often high-handed culture over there. I'm also a member of SQLServer central but still tend to post my DB questions here first because I find it freindlier here (SSC is actually very good but they do tend to be VERY unforgiving of anyone who doesn't immediately follow their culture).

    Yes, some questions are inane. Some posters are lazy. And the fact that someone posts in that fashion is, frankly, disrespectful to all of us. But if you repay that disrespect in kind you're really no better than they are. Politeness costs nothing.
    I like the way you put that....
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  35. #35
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    if you repay that disrespect in kind you're really no better than they are. Politeness costs nothing.
    Hear, hear.

  36. #36
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    That said - I do have to reply as follows sometimes:-

    Why I won't do your homework
    Getting an experienced developer to do your homework is bad for us, bad for you and bad for society.

    It is bad for us because:
    * Homework problems are specifically chosen to demonstrate a particular aspect of programming so those of us who have learnt that aspect (and could help) can learn nothing new from them
    * It reduces our enthusiasm to help others if we are inundated with homework requests

    It is bad for you because:
    * Our answers are likely to be more high level than your tutor anticipates so he/she will know it is not your own work
    * If we do your homework the only thing you will learn is how not to program. The worlds is already way too full of people who know how not to program.

    It is bad for society because:
    * If people get by with help they take the place in university, on industrial placement, and everywhere else from people who are willing to learn. So there are less people qualified to do the work, so less people to help others and pretty soon nobody can program...and we can't all be Dilbert pointy hair managers ;-)


    (I usually just ignore the thread and move on to the next one though...)
    There is some good news though. We are willing to help you to understand your homework so that you can do it...so if you approach things from that angle we can all get along.

  37. #37
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    I absolutely agree with and endorse all of that. I don't want to do someone's homework any more than I want to do their paid work... unless they'll pay me a commission. And you've given the best piece of advice I can think of:-
    I usually just ignore the thread and move on to the next one
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  38. #38
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    The fact that most members around here won't do anybody's homework is pretty obvious, and so are the reasons for not doing it as well. However that fact does not excuse a disrespectful reply to anyone that post such a question. It's fairly easy to post a polite reply about why we don't do somebody's homework and ask the person to be more specific about what they've already done and where they are stuck, or if you're tired of posting such an answer for the thirty-twelfth time in a week then you always have the choice to ignore the OP and browse over to some other thread.

  39. #39
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Not gonna lie. Dunfiddlin is one of the more entertaining posters. Always felt he made this place a little more interesting in terms of personality. Yea, he can seem a little biting sometimes but I've never seen anything truly venomous from him. I will miss seeing antics in the VB.Net section.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  40. #40
    Frenzied Member CoachBarker's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry guys but I'm done!

    Personally I have come to appreciate the attitudes of Dun and JMC and and a few other forum members. Pretty much the same as all the professors I had while in school. If you went to them with a problem, you better know exactly what you wanted before you knocked on their door. As long as you could tell them exactly what you were trying to do and exactly what problems or errors you were getting, they were more than willing to help you. It was also required of us to keep a log of all error messages we received while debugging our code, what the error message said, what it meant and how we fixed it. he whole idea behind this was to make us improve our critical thinking skills.

    I never found this forum until my last semester in school while I was doing my internship. So very few questions were posted regarding home work assignments. I too have become a lurker here in the forums, in and out of here many times during the day, posting very rarely. Too many people do come in here looking for some one else to do their work for them, to write their code and reason out their problems. A an example their is a thread in vb.net right now where the OP has done very little (if any) of the code for a console app. Yet when the OP found out the posts are public, the OP was worried that any Tom, Dick or Harry could copy their code. Thought to myself what a joke. Too many people now a days want something for nothing, and to do as little as they have to yet take credit for work done by others. I personally think the thin skinned people should toughen up, because life in the real world is a lot harder and more demanding than any classroom work.
    Thanks
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