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Thread: Do your part for VB6!!

  1. #121
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Can you write a POCKET PC app with VB6? (I know that PPC's don't really exist anymore - but that's another thread...)

    How about these new windows 8 tablets - can you write a functional app with VB6 for a touch screen device??

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  2. #122
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Somebody probably could. VB6 attracted the most determined hackers over the years. By hackers I mean the guys that figured out tricks like illegal object pointers and such. For all its limitations, VB6 has some of the most talented programmers around. Many of the tricks that people have come up with to overcome VB6's limitations are really something to behold. It really takes great talent.
    Last edited by Niya; Aug 14th, 2013 at 06:02 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  3. #123
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    That's not really what I mean - how about easily?

    Making a PPC app with VS was a piece of cake.

    The VS IDE offered me emulators so I could code against them instead of a real device - as well as let me code and debug to the real device.

    The .Net library and even the one available for compact devices - offered access to the underlying windows api in an incredibly easy way to use.

    I'm been working for nearly two years now on a project that is 4 different backend services - a UI - and my own C++ unmanaged library for string manipulation. All of this is in a single VS Solution - I can start all 5 projects at once - or start one and debug just that single project.

    It's even got a UI that is C# and using WPF!

    I can't imagine using VB6 and that old IDE to work on something this complex.

    Don't you all think that the .Net library was the driving reason for cleaning up the VB syntax?

    And isn't the .Net library totally worth it?

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  4. #124
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    That's not really what I mean - how about easily?

    Making a PPC app with VS was a piece of cake.

    The VS IDE offered me emulators so I could code against them instead of a real device - as well as let me code and debug to the real device.

    The .Net library and even the one available for compact devices - offered access to the underlying windows api in an incredibly easy way to use.

    I'm been working for nearly two years now on a project that is 4 different backend services - a UI - and my own C++ unmanaged library for string manipulation. All of this is in a single VS Solution - I can start all 5 projects at once - or start one and debug just that single project.

    It's even got a UI that is C# and using WPF!

    I can't imagine using VB6 and that old IDE to work on something this complex.

    Don't you all think that the .Net library was the driving reason for cleaning up the VB syntax?

    And isn't the .Net library totally worth it?
    I know, I was being sorta tongue in cheek with my last post. Don't doubt that it might actually be true though. I was serious about the talent for hacking that VB6 programmers tend to have.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  5. #125
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    Don't you all think that the .Net library was the driving reason for cleaning up the VB syntax?
    Yea, the .Net Framework is built on the Common Type System and then there is the CLI specification. Both demand quite a few language changes to conform to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    And isn't the .Net library totally worth it?
    Oh hell yea. I can actually write huge apps now with very little and sometimes no Win32 APIs. The Framework has just about everything you'd need. Hunting down constants on the internet and in C header files was such a huge pain in the ass when I was still in VB6 and needed some API to do something.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  6. #126
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I was serious about the talent for hacking that VB6 programmers tend to have.
    Is that VB6 that makes that??

    Or the need to get under the engine - closer to the api - to make the PC do your will?

    When I was a mainframe/minicomputer programmer - back in my VAX/VMS days - the system runtime library was fully documented and accessible from any language available (C, BASIC - DIBOL - whatever). Like twenty 4-inch binders worth of documentation!

    If the language you use is going to abstract you away from the OS then the language better have available a library to talk to same-said OS - otherwise you got to hack your way back down...

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  7. #127
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Hunting down constants on the internet and in C header files was such a huge pain in the ass when I was still in VB6 and needed some API to do something.
    Exactly!

    How would that work if you had to write-your-own-api-calls and then a new device comes along and since you coded your own smack you got exactly what you deserved - a big smack in the head as that device doesn't quite talk the same.

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  8. #128
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    Is that VB6 that makes that??

    Or the need to get under the engine - closer to the api - to make the PC do your will?
    The limits of VB6 necessitated getting under the hood. At one point this was quite admirable but now we have .Net. And if you have a copy VS2005+ and still insist on hacking around in VB6 then its no longer admirable, its just ridiculous. Its like having a fully operational chainsaw yet still using an axe to cut down a large tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    If the language you use is going to abstract you away from the OS then the language better have available a library to talk to same-said OS - otherwise you got to hack your way back down...
    VB.Net definitely got this right even though it abstracts even more than VB6 does.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  9. #129
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    So we seem to agree

    Bottom line is that VB6 came from an error of pale-beige desktops that weighed 20 pounds each and was never meant to travel into the world of future.

    Might be sad for some - but it's true.

    I'd like to push a VB6-er into WPF and let them see how really cool life can be. All objects - all form elements - inherit from a DISPATCHER object making multi-threading a natural part of every object - so cool!

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  10. #130
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    By the way, VB6 never did pocket PC stuff. The closest it came was eVB, which wasn't VB6 at all, though it used the same syntax. Instead, it was VBScript.
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  11. #131
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    So we seem to agree
    I never disagreed. Its just that I try to be fair when involved in these arguments. Though its clear(or rather it should be) why VB6 has been abandoned, throwing a bone now and again should help keep this discussion balanced so this won't devolving into a major **** fest. The arguments to keep VB6 alive are actually based on pure emotion so I try to be sensitive to that when I can but never at the expense of truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    I'd like to push a VB6-er into WPF and let them see how really cool life can be.
    You'd have an easier time swimming across the Atlantic.
    Last edited by Niya; Aug 14th, 2013 at 09:18 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kivisoft@ View Post
    There is currently an active petition going on in Visual Studio uservoice site named "Bring back Classic Visual Basic, an improved version of VB6". it is one of the most popular petitions in the site. currently is has 1,785 votes. I beg of you to go here http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/fo...improved-versi and vote!
    Thank you so much!
    Now VB6 it has over 4000 votes

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    @kivisoft

    The programmers are not on the forums, your problem was that you did not know where else to turn. But luckily someone knew how to make your link visible to other programmers !

  14. #134
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    This site alone has over 150,000 registered users. 4,000 votes amounts to nothing much.
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    This site alone has over 150,000 registered users. 4,000 votes amounts to nothing much.
    VB6 is on place #7 on the idea ratings, this is much.

  16. #136
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    VB6 is on place #7 on the idea ratings, this is much.
    That means very little. I'll wager that similar petitions in the past have had significantly more and still been ignored.

  17. #137
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    VB6 is on place #7 on the idea ratings, this is much.
    I don't see that, so I'm not sure what you are looking at. Still, if that's a ranking in the number of votes, the fact that 4,000 puts something in seventh place has more to say about the weakness of the turnout than it does about the strength of the idea. You could get 4,000 signatures about the world being flat in any major city in the US in much less time than VB6 took. It's a pathetic figure and ranking it among other pathetic figures doesn't make it look better.
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    That means very little. I'll wager that similar petitions in the past have had significantly more and still been ignored.
    In one month, developers were mobilized and 2,200 new votes appeared for VB6, I think that this says aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa looootttttttt!

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I don't see that, so I'm not sure what you are looking at. Still, if that's a ranking in the number of votes, the fact that 4,000 puts something in seventh place has more to say about the weakness of the turnout than it does about the strength of the idea. You could get 4,000 signatures about the world being flat in any major city in the US in much less time than VB6 took. It's a pathetic figure and ranking it among other pathetic figures doesn't make it look better.
    You're the only pathetic in this conversation! if you get out of your box to see what happens, you will be illuminated!

  20. #140
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    You're the only pathetic in this conversation! if you get out of your box to see what happens, you will be illuminated!
    You're the one that can't see. VB6 IS DEAD. NO AMOUNT OF STATISTICAL DATA CAN CHANGE THAT. Is it clearer now ?
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  21. #141
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    You're the only pathetic in this conversation! if you get out of your box to see what happens, you will be illuminated!
    I have no particular interest one way or another in VB6. My point is that 4,000 votes is absurdly low for anything considering the pool of voters. Consider that the petition to deport Justin Bieber currently has 257,000 votes in America alone, and it's essentially a joke. You could get 4,000 people to pay money to show up at VB6 conventions (if they were held in cities around the US, let alone around the world).

    In any normal voting system, you'd have an Aye and a Nay vote. Petitions only have Aye votes, which means you have no particular idea as to how many people are against the particular action except to consider the total vote as a portion of the pool of possible voters. That's not to say that everybody who didn't sign is voting Nay, but it does say that of the total pool, only a very tiny fraction is willing to go to the effort of clicking a button to support that action. Furthermore, there is guaranteed to be repeat votes unless nobody care enough about the issue to exagerate their position.

    The point is about voting in general, not VB6 specifically. I never doubted that there were people who supported that position. There are people who support EVERY position, reasonable or not. Without the ability to evaluate Aye vs Nay, and without the ability to perform any measure on bias, a poll is a very dubious measure of support for a proposition. You are measuring the existence, and some measure of the magnitude, but you can assume there is some support for EVERY position and this particular magnitude, when put in perspective of the pool of potential voters, is trivial.

    Get more publicity and you will get more votes. Add in a Nay vote and you will get a more clear perspective of the population. Otherwise you are preaching not just to the choir, but the motivated sub-section of the choir.
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  22. #142
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Personally, I don't care about VB6. I used to, but since I switched to Delphi, I have understood how limited it was. With Delphi, I can now develop applications for Windows, OSX, iOS and Android using more or less the same code base.

    I grew up as a programmer with classic VB (I started with VB3) and I got very upset when MS decided to discontinue it. Now I reckon it was a blessing in disguise because, in my opinion, nothing compares to Delphi. To the thread starter, I would like to say that it would make much more sense for him to look for an alternative Basic-like language. Xojo seems to come highly recommended as it also allows you to develop for the Mac.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  23. #143
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Can some body summarize after the first page?

  24. #144
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Here's what I've gotten out of this:
    except for about 4,000 people that have signed the petition, no one really cares that VB6 is essentially dead as a tool for new development. The fact that VB6 apps still run today is an indictment as to the power of VB6. Some people can crank an app out faster in VB6. Some people can crank out an app faster in .NET. Names were called. The voting system is flawed.

    I think that just about covers the last three pages up to this post.

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  25. #145
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Great summery, actually could of predicted that

    My car works(works as is), it's still a piece of **** i would like to get rid of.

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I have no particular interest one way or another in VB6. My point is that 4,000 votes is absurdly low for anything considering the pool of voters. Consider that the petition to deport Justin Bieber currently has 257,000 votes in America alone, and it's essentially a joke. You could get 4,000 people to pay money to show up at VB6 conventions (if they were held in cities around the US, let alone around the world).

    In any normal voting system, you'd have an Aye and a Nay vote. Petitions only have Aye votes, which means you have no particular idea as to how many people are against the particular action except to consider the total vote as a portion of the pool of possible voters. That's not to say that everybody who didn't sign is voting Nay, but it does say that of the total pool, only a very tiny fraction is willing to go to the effort of clicking a button to support that action. Furthermore, there is guaranteed to be repeat votes unless nobody care enough about the issue to exagerate their position.

    The point is about voting in general, not VB6 specifically. I never doubted that there were people who supported that position. There are people who support EVERY position, reasonable or not. Without the ability to evaluate Aye vs Nay, and without the ability to perform any measure on bias, a poll is a very dubious measure of support for a proposition. You are measuring the existence, and some measure of the magnitude, but you can assume there is some support for EVERY position and this particular magnitude, when put in perspective of the pool of potential voters, is trivial.

    Get more publicity and you will get more votes. Add in a Nay vote and you will get a more clear perspective of the population. Otherwise you are preaching not just to the choir, but the motivated sub-section of the choir.
    1) Justin Bieber is voted by the population (the scum of the society), Visual Basic 6.0 is voted by programmers!

    2) There are many reasons for wich FACEBOOK,MICROSOFT,GOOGLE don't allow for downvote. The only idea that needs downvote is the downvote idea, otherwise downvote has no significance except it just gives ability to throw **** on good things for idiots. VISIT THIS LINK TO BE ILUMINATED: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/fo...-on-uservoice-

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by esposito View Post
    Personally, I don't care about VB6. I used to, but since I switched to Delphi, I have understood how limited it was. With Delphi, I can now develop applications for Windows, OSX, iOS and Android using more or less the same code base.

    I grew up as a programmer with classic VB (I started with VB3) and I got very upset when MS decided to discontinue it. Now I reckon it was a blessing in disguise because, in my opinion, nothing compares to Delphi. To the thread starter, I would like to say that it would make much more sense for him to look for an alternative Basic-like language. Xojo seems to come highly recommended as it also allows you to develop for the Mac.
    The most advanced applications are made in VB6. If Visual Basic 6.0 is limited, then you are a second hand programmer (actually a third class programmer). I'm sure you know Delphi as you know VB6 ...

    PS: VB6 programmers know most programming languages, but how can you know this if you've been sealed into your room!

    Last edited by Fatina; Feb 13th, 2014 at 06:16 PM.

  28. #148
    Bad man! ident's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    vb6 programmers know most languages? There is me thinking most VB6 programmers diluted the pool and made finding a decent programmer hard.

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ident View Post
    Can some body summarize after the first page?
    Clever comment. Summary: Tens of thousands of people want a new Visual Basic 6.0 version. Nearly 4 obsessive-compulsive users are against it!

  30. #150
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Where are these tens of thousands of people. I started with vb in 97/99...(which?), it sucks, any chance you can lay off the "BOLD im angry INTERNET font"? Pretty please.

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ident View Post
    vb6 programmers know most languages? There is me thinking most VB6 programmers diluted the pool and made finding a decent programmer hard.
    Idiots (or those who were forced - and to them I apologize) moved from VB6 to other programming languages, in this way VB6 got the smart programmers !

    Give me your best shot, show me the smartest source code that you can be proud of (of your favorite programming language)

    Show me your pride !

    PS: do not tell me how to write my text!


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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ident View Post
    Where are these tens of thousands of people. I started with vb in 97/99...(which?), it sucks, any chance you can lay off the "BOLD im angry INTERNET font"? Pretty please.
    Right here (look at counter): http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/funky...pport-Strategy

    and here (look at the Likes): https://www.facebook.com/ms.Visual.Basic.6

    PS: You can find Visual Basic 6.0 programmers everywhere, you should not put your head in the sand like an ostrich !

  33. #153
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    1) Justin Bieber is voted by the population (the scum of the society),
    I could be wrong here, but calling people names (twice now) is not going to win you any favors or votes, and could get this thread locked or (worse) you banned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    Visual Basic 6.0 is voted by programmers!

    2) There are many reasons for wich FACEBOOK,MICROSOFT,GOOGLE don't allow for downvote. The only idea that needs downvote is the downvote idea, otherwise downvote has no significance except it just gives ability to throw **** on good things for idiots. VISIT THIS LINK TO BE ILUMINATED: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/fo...-on-uservoice-
    Actually, no, there are plenty of reasons to downvote something. That's why certain other sites have that. If you don't record the negative votes, then how can the positive votes be a true indication of what the will of the people is? You can't. Just like you can't have good w/o evil, you can vote for something if there is also a corresponding "against" vote. Think about it, at cash registers when you pay by card, they ask if you want a receipt, yes or no... those are your two options. What if they just gave you only the "yes" option? I might be inclined to think that yes is my only option, when it isn't. There maybe 4,000 people that think a newer VB6 would be a good idea, but there's probably 25,000 that don't think there should be. It's what you call the silent majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    The most advanced applications are made in VB6.
    Really... and that's why up until recently Visual Studio was written in C & C++ (and now it's written in C# and VB.NET) And that there are thousands of COBOL and FORTRAN applications. I'd agree that VB can be used to write advanced systems... I'm not sure I'd claim that most of the advanced ones are written in VB6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    If Visual Basic 6.0 is limited, then you are a second hand programmer (actually a third class programmer). I'm sure you know Delphi as you know VB6 ...
    If VB6 WASN'T limited, then no one would need anything else. But the fact of the matter is that it IS limited... inheritance sucks, subclassing is a real chore, and there are just somethings it's really bad at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    PS: VB6 programmers know most programming languages, but how can you know this if you've been sealed into your room!
    Again... with the insults... but I will say this, many (I'm not even sure I'd say most) developers do work in more than one language... I myself use VB,C#,SQL,HTML (arguably a language), javascript, ASP, PHP, and more...but that all comes from need and crossing boundaries. My VB6 background played no role in that except for maybe hindering my ability to learn them. If anything it was my Pascal background that helped me the most. (I've also use C, C++, ADA, COBOL, FORTRAN, ASM over the years... all before I even touched VB).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    Clever comment. Summary: Tens of thousands of people want a new Visual Basic 6.0 version. Nearly 4 obsessive-compulsive users are against it!
    No, that was not a clever comment. My reply was a clever comment. His was a question.
    obsessive compulsive and proud of it baby! Like Ident, I'd like to know where they are... apparently not here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ident View Post
    Where are these tens of thousands of people. I started with vb in 97/99...(which?)
    Trick question! It was 96!


    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    I could be wrong here, but calling people names (twice now) is not going to win you any favors or votes, and could get this thread locked or (worse) you banned.
    I have NOT offended anyone. Visual Basic 6.0 is on place #7 on the idea list of priorities: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/fo...io/filters/top

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Actually, no, there are plenty of reasons to downvote something. That's why certain other sites have that. If you don't record the negative votes, then how can the positive votes be a true indication of what the will of the people is? You can't. Just like you can't have good w/o evil, you can vote for something if there is also a corresponding "against" vote. Think about it, at cash registers when you pay by card, they ask if you want a receipt, yes or no... those are your two options. What if they just gave you only the "yes" option? I might be inclined to think that yes is my only option, when it isn't. There maybe 4,000 people that think a newer VB6 would be a good idea, but there's probably 25,000 that don't think there should be. It's what you call the silent majority.
    NO ! downvoting may influence the decision of a man who does not know the problem at hand to well, he will vote in the spirit of the flock. Therefore, downvoting is NOT a smart decision for anything.

    If you as a statistician want to know how "downvoting" values are, you can extrapolate, you have 3 variables: the number of visits, the number of LIKES and the number of comments !

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Really... and that's why up until recently Visual Studio was written in C & C++ (and now it's written in C# and VB.NET) And that there are thousands of COBOL and FORTRAN applications. I'd agree that VB can be used to write advanced systems... I'm not sure I'd claim that most of the advanced ones are written in VB6.

    I LOVE COBOL and FORTRAN ! Maybe not most of them (because it is difficult to quantify) but there is a huge number of advanced Visual Basic 6.0 app's.


    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    If VB6 WASN'T limited, then no one would need anything else. But the fact of the matter is that it IS limited... inheritance sucks, subclassing is a real chore, and there are just somethings it's really bad at.

    These problems were solved long time ago by Visual Basic 6.0 advanced programmers, you just have to import their open source classes or modules and everything is ok! no problem there. Anyway, the idea was to bring to the market a new version of Visual Basic 6.0, and I think that this is what the other users did not understand.



    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Again... with the insults... but I will say this, many (I'm not even sure I'd say most) developers do work in more than one language... I myself use VB,C#,SQL,HTML (arguably a language), javascript, ASP, PHP, and more...but that all comes from need and crossing boundaries. My VB6 background played no role in that except for maybe hindering my ability to learn them. If anything it was my Pascal background that helped me the most. (I've also use C, C++, ADA, COBOL, FORTRAN, ASM over the years... all before I even touched VB).
    I was provoked with an insult! Let's face it, everyone went through Pascal and C++ (I never used ADA but I understand that is pretty cool).


    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    No, that was not a clever comment. My reply was a clever comment. His was a question.
    obsessive compulsive and proud of it baby! Like Ident, I'd like to know where they are... apparently not here.
    ok, your replay is a clever comment ! I answered the other user where the thousands of programmers are (it is a 4 font size, impossible to miss)

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Trick question! It was 96!

    -tg
    Again, this is an insult to me and to my community!

  35. #155
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    The most advanced applications are made in VB6. If Visual Basic 6.0 is limited, then you are a second hand programmer (actually a third class programmer). I'm sure you know Delphi as you know VB6 ...

    PS: VB6 programmers know most programming languages, but how can you know this if you've been sealed into your room!

    I think you are pathetic. You simply don't realize that VB6 belongs to the past and, since it was not upgraded for ages, now it's too late for Microsoft to come up with a new version. I firmly believe you are sealed in your room because you don't even know that right now you can find a lot of alternative programming languages that are way more powerful than VB6, if nothing else because they are cross-platform.

    So, get off your soap-box and look around. If you feel comfortable with VB-like syntax and you don't want to use .Net, try Xojo. Don't waste your time trying to convince Microsoft to take a 20-year leap backwards. They will never do that.
    Last edited by esposito; Feb 14th, 2014 at 01:52 AM.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  36. #156
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    I have NOT offended anyone
    Well, you've called Shaggy "pathetic", the poulation of the world "the scum of the society", called anyone who migrated away from VB6 "Idiots", called anyone who percieves VB6 as limited a "Third Class Programmer" and used large point text format to shout at all of us so I'm willing to bet you have offended people. You've come pretty close to offending me and that takes some doing. Calm down. We may not agree with you but that doesn't mean we're wrong or out to insult you. Similarly, the fact that you disagree with us doesn't mean that you're wrong eitehr. It just means we disagree about something.

    Personally I can't see any merit for MS to bring out a new version of VB6 but I honestly won't be particularly bothered if they do. I certainly won't be reverting to it for new development because .Net does everything I want it to do better than VB6 ever did. For cranking out quick LOB apps (which is most of what I do) it's probably the best language on the market and it also scales very well to enterprise level development. VB6 was great at the former but terrioble at the latter. It could be used for enterprise level development (I spent many years doing that) but it wasn't particularly good at it. We had to use all sorts of hacks into the Windows API to get around the fact that the language didn't support that for us natively. You could argue that that made us good programmers, I'd argue it merely made us inneficient, if talented, ones. We spent our time being clever instead of being productive.

    Despite the fact that I wouldn't object to VB6 being resurrected I really don't think it's going to happen and you probably shouldn't either. If you think online petitions are going to make a difference then go ahead and sign them. I salute your level of engagement and find it far more admirable than the apathy with which we're usually confronted. However, I think you would be foolish not to entertain the likelihood that support for your cherished Classic VB is dead, never to rise again. I think you've got plenty of time before you're actually forced to stop using it but, none the less, you will eventually be forced to stop using it. I think the most likely harbinger I can see on the horizon is "app" development (by which I mean mobile-type apps). These are likely to become inreasingly ubiquitous and Classic VB is unlikely to support their development. They won't completely kill Classic, of course, but they will weaken it's posiiton. Then a new paradigm will come along which will weaken it further. And again, and again. Over time VB6 will die by a thousand cuts.

    So with that in mind you should be looking to your alternatives. You've got plenty of time before you need to jump ship, but you should at least be starting to line up the life-rafts. Or you could rely on the community to continue to patch up the hull of VB6. I wasn't aware that there were third patry libraries to support inheritance but, if there are, that's quite an achievement. It's entirely possible that the community will continue to develop clever stuff to keep it going. I must admit, in my imagination I've got a creaking hulk of a tub belching black soot from it's smoke stacks and a bunch of screaming coders desparately trying to rivet patches of steel over the holes that keep tearing open below the waterline. No doubt you imagine a slick and deadly nuclear sub, cutting through the mirk of the sub sea coding world at break-neck speed. But it doesn't matter which of us is right and which of us is wrong, as long as you're happy with the ship you're sailing on.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

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  37. #157
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    NO ! downvoting may influence the decision of a man who does not know the problem at hand to well, he will vote in the spirit of the flock. Therefore, downvoting is NOT a smart decision for anything.

    If you as a statistician want to know how "downvoting" values are, you can extrapolate, you have 3 variables: the number of visits, the number of LIKES and the number of comments !
    That's all I was interested in anyways: Sampling methodologies.

    What you said in the first statement isn't meaningful, since the exact same thing could be done with the Aye vote, especially on a site like that. People who are passionate about the subject will be highly motivated to vote multiple times. What prevents them? There may be some mechanism, but it's probably something trivial like IP address checking, which won't work very well and will only weed out the casual multi-voter. This is the problem with all types of online voting systems: How do you verify that the voter is who they claim to be and verify that they either didn't vote under duress, or didn't vote multiple times, or both. I wouldn't expect anybody to be bullied into upvoting on something like this, but I can certainly see somebody getting their friends to vote even when their friends don't care. Whether or not this happens I have no idea, the point is that there is no control on a poll to deal with any form of fraudulent voting, so you have to assume that a certain percentage of the vote is fraudulent.

    As for me as a statistician, the metrics you stated are entirely meaningless with a vote count that low. Each one of them has a very high and obvious source of bias. Aside from the first one (site visits is even less meaningful than the others), the others would have greater meaning if the vote count was considerably higher, but at 4,000, the bias in those sources is so high that we can probably put the error around the count at greater than the count itself, which is absurd.

    The problem comes down to figuring out what percentage of the programming population has voted. That alone has two pieces to it: Estimating the size of the programming population and estimating the portion of that population that has encountered the poll. When estimating the size of the population, you have a bit of a problem as to who to include and who not to include. For example, would it be fair to add ASM programmers working exclusively with device drivers? Probably not, though they are certainly programmers by any definition. So what population is valid and how big is it? I don't have an answer for that, but I note that the number of registered users on this one site is 150,000+. Vast numbers of those people are students who will not spend time in programming, or who have come in since VB6 was deprecated. Still, the population of valid programmers, especially when you count world-wide, has got to be considerably higher than that. So, if we make a rough estimate that the programmers who might reasonably have an opinion about this is 250,000, which is certainly a conservative estimate, then 4,000 yes votes is 1.6%.

    Of course, you then have to come up with an estimate as to how many know about the poll, which can't be done and I can't think of any good way to estimate it. Perhaps TG can build an estimation program for that question. However, the point is that if you had 100,000 voters, or 200,000 voters, then you'd have a significant percentage of the estimated population even if the estimated population was SERIOUSLY low. It still wouldn't be accurate due to factors noted earlier, but the inaccuracy would simply mean that there are large error bars around the estimate. Unfortunately, you still have those large error bars around the estimate, but the count is tiny. That's why I said that 4,000 votes is meaningless. When you add up the error, it can't be significantly greater than 0 by any reasonable estimate, regardless of any bias. It may still be the case that only 1% of potential voters even knows about the poll, in which case 4000 voters could be highly significant. We simply can't know from the data as it stands.

    Aside from that: MS is a business. They have always done what they felt made the most business sense, even if it meant abandoning sectors of users. They aren't as notorious about abandoning people as Apple has always been, but they still will be making business decisions. It's not a popularity contest, just a business. They can do estimation at least as well as I can, and will come to the same conclusion. You need votes in the hundreds of thousands if you want to get noticed. By that measure, 4,000 is meaingless.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by esposito View Post
    I think you are pathetic. You simply don't realize that VB6 belongs to the past and, since it was not upgraded for ages, now it's too late for Microsoft to come up with a new version. I firmly believe you are sealed in your room because you don't even know that right now you can find a lot of alternative programming languages that are way more powerful than VB6, if nothing else because they are cross-platform.

    So, get off your soap-box and look around. If you feel comfortable with VB-like syntax and you don't want to use .Net, try Xojo. Don't waste your time trying to convince Microsoft to take a 20-year leap backwards. They will never do that.

    Are you a man who repeats back my words like a parrot? Have you no imagination for an original offense ?

    Xojo ?! you make me laugh! you realy are a third class programmer which I should not bother to answer ... (prove me wrong)

    The average VB6 source code posts on PSC is ~15 posts/day ..... a huge number of projects ! No other language can take pride like VB6!

    Another thing are the ratings of VB6 which are by far the highest in all rankings:

    VB6 on place 1:
    http://www.theranking.com/what-is-th...e-world_r55229

    VB6 on place 2:
    http://www.theranking.com/what-is-th...ge-ever_r43672

    VB6 on place 2:
    http://www.theranking.com/best-progr...e-world_r36102


    I hope you will open your mind and you will be avoided by prejudices in the future !

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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Well, you've called Shaggy "pathetic", the poulation of the world "the scum of the society", called anyone who migrated away from VB6 "Idiots", called anyone who percieves VB6 as limited a "Third Class Programmer" and used large point text format to shout at all of us so I'm willing to bet you have offended people. You've come pretty close to offending me and that takes some doing. Calm down. We may not agree with you but that doesn't mean we're wrong or out to insult you. Similarly, the fact that you disagree with us doesn't mean that you're wrong eitehr. It just means we disagree about something.
    I was actually pulled by the sleeve by other VB6 programmers, so I will calm down ! ...

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Personally I can't see any merit for MS to bring out a new version of VB6 but I honestly won't be particularly bothered if they do. I certainly won't be reverting to it for new development because .Net does everything I want it to do better than VB6 ever did. For cranking out quick LOB apps (which is most of what I do) it's probably the best language on the market and it also scales very well to enterprise level development. VB6 was great at the former but terrioble at the latter. It could be used for enterprise level development (I spent many years doing that) but it wasn't particularly good at it. We had to use all sorts of hacks into the Windows API to get around the fact that the language didn't support that for us natively. You could argue that that made us good programmers, I'd argue it merely made us inneficient, if talented, ones. We spent our time being clever instead of being productive.
    It bothers me that the developers of the two VB communities (VB6 and VB .NET) don't gather their forces to fight other languages. This is a sad thing !

    If a single developer is smart and solves a problem, others can be productive ... this is valid for .NET too. And VB6 made us better programmers (including the programmers from the .NET community as they have their taste of VB6).


    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Despite the fact that I wouldn't object to VB6 being resurrected I really don't think it's going to happen and you probably shouldn't either. If you think online petitions are going to make a difference then go ahead and sign them. I salute your level of engagement and find it far more admirable than the apathy with which we're usually confronted. However, I think you would be foolish not to entertain the likelihood that support for your cherished Classic VB is dead, never to rise again. I think you've got plenty of time before you're actually forced to stop using it but, none the less, you will eventually be forced to stop using it. I think the most likely harbinger I can see on the horizon is "app" development (by which I mean mobile-type apps). These are likely to become inreasingly ubiquitous and Classic VB is unlikely to support their development. They won't completely kill Classic, of course, but they will weaken it's posiiton. Then a new paradigm will come along which will weaken it further. And again, and again. Over time VB6 will die by a thousand cuts.
    It is not just a desire of mine, is the the desire of a Visual Basic 6.0 community of 40,000 - 50,000 active developers !

    A resistance from you for a new VB6 variant, actually hurts the VB .NET community, because you will affect the entire class of VB languages.


    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    So with that in mind you should be looking to your alternatives. You've got plenty of time before you need to jump ship, but you should at least be starting to line up the life-rafts. Or you could rely on the community to continue to patch up the hull of VB6. I wasn't aware that there were third patry libraries to support inheritance but, if there are, that's quite an achievement. It's entirely possible that the community will continue to develop clever stuff to keep it going.
    No need for alternatives ! I know most programming languages and I have projects in most of them !

    PS: for third patry libraries to support inheritance look at PSC, these libraries are made since 2005 -2006


    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I must admit, in my imagination I've got a creaking hulk of a tub belching black soot from it's smoke stacks and a bunch of screaming coders desparately trying to rivet patches of steel over the holes that keep tearing open below the waterline. No doubt you imagine a slick and deadly nuclear sub, cutting through the mirk of the sub sea coding world at break-neck speed. But it doesn't matter which of us is right and which of us is wrong, as long as you're happy with the ship you're sailing on.

  40. #160
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Do your part for VB6!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatina View Post
    [SIZE=4]

    VB6 on place 1:
    http://www.theranking.com/what-is-th...e-world_r55229

    VB6 on place 2:
    http://www.theranking.com/what-is-th...ge-ever_r43672

    VB6 on place 2:
    http://www.theranking.com/best-progr...e-world_r36102


    I hope you will open your mind and you will be avoided by prejudices in the future !
    These are weird. All three of them are seriously recent, and the number of votes is a fraction of the count. The largest has only 101 votes, the other two are 45 and 41 votes, yet the point totals are FAR higher. Therefore, it's not a simple tally of the number of votes for each. I tried voting to see what impact one vote would have, but I was unwilling to put up with the registration crap.

    So, how are points allocated? At first I thought it was rank-voting: First choice gets 10 points, next choice gets 9, then 8, and so forth. That's not possible, because the point total for VB6 is more than 10 times the number of voters. So, the points per vote has to be something more than straight up rank-voting.

    I then noticed the comments:

    1) The polls aren't independent as the same people show up on all three polls. For another thing, the same people show up multiple times as having voted in the same poll, which means that people are voting multiple times. One person has a name that states they were pressured into voting, and they were apparently pressured into voting in all three polls and voted the same way.

    2) The comments for the third poll shows that there appear to have been no votes for VB6 until the starter of the first poll appeared only a few days back, at which point nearly all the votes were for VB6.

    3) The comments for the second poll show that VB6 was in 9th place until the starter of the first poll appeared on the same day that person appeared in the third poll. From that point on, VB6 climbed rapidly to first place. The total number of voters in those 6 days was about 20, with at least one duplicate and possibly two. In other words, half the voters voted since that one person did.

    In short: The polls are meaningless. The second two were clearly rigged by one partisan bringing in a group of people to vote in a poll with so few voters that two dozen people would constitute a majority. The first poll was started by the person who appears to have rigged the other two. Since some of the voters in all three polls are followers of the person who started the first one, and since they appear to have moved as a block, the polls are neither independent samples, nor are they representative of anything other than the influence of a single person.


    By the way, why should we be for or against any language? Why should VB6 and VB.NET gang up on any others? I can see that VB has been looked down upon by some folks in some other languages, but most of us are probably not partisan. Personally, I get paid to work in .NET and if my employer told me to work in Java, Delphi, C#, or C++ then that is what I would work in (if they told me to work in ASM I'd look for another job...or just laugh). We work in a field that is changing so fast that we all have the red queen's dilemma: Sometimes you have to run as fast as you can just to stay in one place.

    VB didn't exist when I was in college. VB4 was just showing up as I got back into programming, but I learned C++ and a fair amount of ASM, since it was only for a hobby, at the time. I moved to .NET because VB6 didn't support mobile development (PDA's at the time, for which there was only the horrid eVB). I could easily forsee being pushed into C# for my job, or possibly Java. I could also forsee getting back into C++ for my job. Oddly, I think it's even more likely that I will become familiar with a language that doesn't even have a name, yet, before I end up with any of those others.

    With all that change, and the constant promise of more change, what's the point in being partisan?
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