Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 81 to 120 of 151

Thread: Alternative to VB.net ?

  1. #81
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    14,649

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by esposito View Post
    Android apps are usually run in full-screen mode, so they are not suitable for office work where multi-tasking is needed.
    What is it that makes you think that full-screen applications can't multi-task? The only reason iOS, WinRT, and Android have limited multi-tasking capabilities is to save on battery life. If an (official) version of Android for desktop/laptop would ever be released then it would obviously have full multi-tasking abilities.

  2. #82
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson View Post
    What is it that makes you think that full-screen applications can't multi-task? The only reason iOS, WinRT, and Android have limited multi-tasking capabilities is to save on battery life. If an (official) version of Android for desktop/laptop would ever be released then it would obviously have full multi-tasking abilities.
    In that case, it would be a different OS, not the Android we know today. What need do we have to use Android on PCs? Is it because it is free? Well, in that case, we already have tens of versions of Linux, which are all free and have been around for decades, and can do a great job.

    I have just read an interesting article about multi-tasking in iOS and Android. You are right when you say it has limited capabilities and probably this is the reason why they don't allow you to place the app windows side by side (their intensive use would reduce battery life).

    Applications can be used in full-screen mode also on classic Windows, so the user can choose whether to place one or more apps side by side on the desktop at any time. For obvious reasons, tablet OSs do not allow to do so. Trying to force a desktop PC user to act as if he were using a tablet is wrong. As I said, we used to do so when the most widespread OS was DOS, but today our habits have changed (for the better, I dare say).
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  3. #83
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    14,649

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Your comparison between the tablet OS'es and DOS are not quite correct. DOS could only run one application at the time, Android and iOS can run several even if they run in fullscreen. I don't see Android coming in on the desktop side in the future but if it did then removing a built in limitation that only exists for battery saving wouldn't be a major alteration of the OS, it would just be another version. Multi-tasking have nothing to do with the ability to put two applications side by side on the screen.

  4. #84
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson View Post
    If an (official) version of Android for desktop/laptop would ever be released then it would obviously have full multi-tasking abilities.
    There is the unofficial Android-x86 project that might or might not ever spawn anything official, so that's a good point since it is the only thing you're going to find today that you can install on a conventional PC. The biggest obstacle to using it seriously is limited hardware driver support (especially GPUs) and that it defaults to 160 DPI so text and icons are larger than you want on a large screen 2 feet from your eyes.

    There is a wide range of... less conventional PCs already, using both ARM and x86 processors. Some are packaged as mini-desktops, some as small laptops. And right now they are all using the Android MID device profile so a web server's logs would at best report them as tablets even when they have no touchscreen and only a keyboard and mouse.


    As far as "windowing" goes there are Android devices that allow the screen to be split or tiled now, though this is normally a manufacturer's customization to Android. There are also "floating windows" but those are more typically used for things like playing a video while working on something else, Twitter or IM type applications, etc.

    Power management is an issue, but on desktop and laptop devices that's less important than on smaller hardware with battery limitations. A larger screen or multiple monitors also makes draggable overlapping windows more compelling since you have the space for them to be useful.


    What Android offers over a desktop Linux distribution is a huge base of experienced mass market users instead of a handful of marginal enthusiasts.


    Even if none of that goes anywhere though, it seems shortsighted to think the Win32 Desktop will be with us forever. Five years out you might still be running something called "Windows" but it may look a lot more like today's WinRT. Microsoft isn't showing any sign of backtracking on it.

  5. #85
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson View Post
    Your comparison between the tablet OS'es and DOS are not quite correct. DOS could only run one application at the time, Android and iOS can run several even if they run in fullscreen. I don't see Android coming in on the desktop side in the future but if it did then removing a built in limitation that only exists for battery saving wouldn't be a major alteration of the OS, it would just be another version. Multi-tasking have nothing to do with the ability to put two applications side by side on the screen.
    The problem I see lies in the fact that forcing the user to close an app in order to reactivate another one (which is in stand-by mode) is time-consuming and defeats the aim of multi-tasking. In other words, multi-tasking makes sense if I can switch from one app to another with a single click while keeping both apps open. This way, if an app gets updated (for example, if my mailbox receives a message), I realize it in real time, without having to close an app and open another. Only by putting two applications side by side can I take immediate and full advantage of multi-tasking.

    Again, why do we need another version of Android for desktop PCs? What's wrong with Linux?
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  6. #86
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Even if none of that goes anywhere though, it seems shortsighted to think the Win32 Desktop will be with us forever. Five years out you might still be running something called "Windows" but it may look a lot more like today's WinRT. Microsoft isn't showing any sign of backtracking on it.
    Well, they should.

    http://icgeeks.org/steve-ballmer-res...of-surface-rt/
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  7. #87
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    14,649

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by esposito View Post
    In other words, multi-tasking makes sense if I can switch from one app to another with a single click while keeping both apps open. This way, if an app gets updated (for example, if my mailbox receives a message), I realize it in real time, without having to close an app and open another. Only by putting two applications side by side can I take immediate and full advantage of multi-tasking.
    You clearly have misunderstood what multitasking is since what you're talking about is the user of the software that does the multitasking and not the computer. The fact that your e-mail client can download an e-mail without you looking at that particular program or that you can listen to music while surfing the web is multitasking.

    On my iPad I don't close one application to activate another, I simply do a four finger swipe to switch between two different applications which is analogy similar to pressing Alt+Tab on my Windows laptop.

  8. #88
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson View Post
    You clearly have misunderstood what multitasking is since what you're talking about is the user of the software that does the multitasking and not the computer. The fact that your e-mail client can download an e-mail without you looking at that particular program or that you can listen to music while surfing the web is multitasking.

    On my iPad I don't close one application to activate another, I simply do a four finger swipe to switch between two different applications which is analogy similar to pressing Alt+Tab on my Windows laptop.
    That's the whole point. I want to be able to take advantage of multi-tasking in real time and, in my opinion, the best way to do that is by placing two or more windows side by side. Unfortunately, the full-screen mode which Android and iOS apps are based on prevents me from doing so.

    I know that Android and iOS are capable of doing multi-tasking (with some limitations due to battery saving), but having to do a four-finger swipe is not as comfortable as looking at an open window. Even Windows 3.1 was capable of doing some multi-tasking (cooperative, not pre-emptive multi-tasking) but this has very little in common with the enormous flexibility of Win32 that I am used to.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  9. #89
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,598

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Gosh, I guess your web site is not only the center of the universe but can predict the future. Sure proved me wrong!
    Actually, his chart closely mirrors other charts I've seen that shows OS market shares. While you can question their validity, I've yet to see one where Windows wasn't seriously dominating. That in itself says something.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  10. #90
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    If you can watch YouTube where you are Galaxy Note 10.1: How to Use the Split Screen Multi Tasking may illustrate where Android multitasking has gone on tablets and phones. The desktop story is different mainly because of larger screen sizes, but also when you drop back from tablet 160 DPI to 120 DPI or so you gain screen real estate from smaller fonts, icons, etc.

  11. #91
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Actually, his chart closely mirrors other charts I've seen that shows OS market shares. While you can question their validity, I've yet to see one where Windows wasn't seriously dominating. That in itself says something.
    What do web browsing stats mean anyway? That's all those figures show.

    Web usage is far less important on mobile platforms than native applications are. Who would get their Yahoo Mail, Office 365 mail, watch YouTube, check the weather forecast or whatever else on a mobile device by using a web browser?

    Why are people so afraid of the changes that are coming? Try looking at them as opportunities.

  12. #92
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Actually, his chart closely mirrors other charts I've seen that shows OS market shares. While you can question their validity, I've yet to see one where Windows wasn't seriously dominating. That in itself says something.
    These statistics are certainly more reliable than those based on the number of visitors to my Web site:

    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

    As you said, they confirm the figures in my chart.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  13. #93
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,598

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Why are people so afraid of the changes that are coming? Try looking at them as opportunities.
    Being afraid implies I acknowledge that there is a shift coming. Frankly I'm not as convinced as you are, not yet anyway. What you're saying has merit but its not as drastic as you're implying.

    However, you did find the heart of the issue. As such my answer to your question would be to say that I'm completely unwilling to learn the plumbing of a new OS as a developer to the level at which I know Windows. Besides, Windows is just a boss OS. Other OSes are **** by comparison. Plain and simple.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  14. #94
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Another way to put it is that change may well be coming, but until it arrives....I'm not jumping ship. All the users of my software are on Windows boxes, and will be for the forseeable future. I've also been around long enough to have been through two different versions of X is going to supplant Windows. I have no doubt that eventually there will be an X that does, indeed, supplant Windows, I'm just not convinced that it is Android...yet.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  15. #95
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    It might not be Android at all, it might be whatever WinRT becomes. It might be something else from Apple, from Oracle, or from a new player we aren't thinking about. The main thing with Android is that it's more open and approachable for one-man developers and in-house developers than some of the alternatives.

    Preparing for future changes doesn't mean turning your back on the present either. It's about "A and B" not "A or B."

    If you think Windows is king and will remain so, then why is there nothing of consequence in the WinRT forum here?

  16. #96
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,598

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    The more I read your posts on this topic dilettante, the more it seems to me that you're hoping Windows will fall. Why would you want something like that to happen ?
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  17. #97
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    The more I read your posts on this topic dilettante, the more it seems to me that you're hoping Windows will fall. Why would you want something like that to happen ?
    Let's turn it around. When do you plan to move to Windows 8?

  18. #98
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,598

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    When they bring back Aero Glass.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  19. #99
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Don't hold your breath, you might turn Blue.


    Going beyond windows 8- What does the future of operating systems look like?

    The industry is quickly moving away from users that are tied to applications on their office or home machine and towards liberating them so they can work with the same powerful capabilities anywhere – they can finally stop worrying about the system underneath and get on with what interests them. In many ways, it’s a case of “Back to the Future” sharing many of the concepts behind the original mainframes, the key difference now is the availability and speed of the internet connections that are delivering this vision across a multitude of platforms and devices. There is a lot more still to come but it is clear that the direction has been set.

  20. #100
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I remember when some of these "foretellers" predicted Linux would replace Windows, and it never happened.

    Then, with the advent of the .Net technology, some others predicted native applications would disappear altogether, and it never happened.

    Recently, some said that applications in the cloud would replace local software in the very near future and, so far, it has not happened.

    The "cloud" has been around for a long time. If it had had the right qualities to replace local software altogether, it would already have done so by now.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  21. #101
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,598

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    You seem to be alluding to a possibility that cloud computing could overthrow the desktop. Well, you might be surprised to know I see this as a definite possibility, perhaps when HTML becomes more evolved. However, another desktop OS taking Windows' market share. Not likely. Windows 8 may seem like a stumble but so was Windows ME. And what happened after ? Windows XP. Who knows, maybe Blue might surprise us all.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  22. #102
    Software Carpenter dee-u's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pinas
    Posts
    11,123

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    For now I don't think cloud computing could overthrow desktop since not everyone has internet connection like here in our country.
    Regards,

    â„¢

    As a gesture of gratitude please consider rating helpful posts. c",)

    Some stuffs: Mouse Hotkey | Compress file using SQL Server! | WPF - Rounded Combobox | WPF - Notify Icon and Balloon | NetVerser - a WPF chatting system

  23. #103
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,598

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dee-u View Post
    For now I don't think cloud computing could overthrow desktop since not everyone has internet connection like here in our country.
    Ya, there's that too. Lack of internet.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  24. #104
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Rather than even trying to participate in a discussion you just want to shout it down as loudly as you can.
    To be honest you're both really just shouting and while Esposito's web traffic may not be the single best measure available on the planet, it's still one more heuristic than you were providing.

    While it's true that Windows will eventually be suplanted (that being the nature of an infinite time line) I would say it's foolish to try and accomodate every possible future now because that represents an infinite set of possibilities. While there is a chance that you'll gain an edge on the rest of us by pre-empting the right change at the right time it's far more likely that you will waste alot of time and effort chasing rainbows. That's the nature of trying to sit on the bleeding edge, you're constantly tryingh to guess at what the future holds. While it can be profitable if you make the right guess it's also incredibly wasteful most of the time. Personally I reckon you want to sit ever so slightly behind it. React to what is happening, not to what might. It's less glamorous but it's usually more profitable.

    On the multi-tasking thing I think Joachim and Esposito are both right but you're using different language. Esposito is referring to human multi-tasking, i.e. can I sit at a computer and be working on two tasks at once. In that context the ability to trivially flick between two windows and even see them along side each other is absolutely vital. Android does not currently support this but I agree that this is more to do with limitation in the hardware rather than a limitation in what Android could potentially achieve; it will be a trivial gap for Andorid to close when they decide that it's apropriate to do so. Joachim is referring to computer multi-tasking, i.e. can the machine carry out two tasks at once. Android already does support this, I can't think of a single modern OS that doesn't, in fact, so really isn't a point worth debating.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  25. #105
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    To be honest you're both really just shouting and while Esposito's web traffic may not be the single best measure available on the planet, it's still one more heuristic than you were providing.
    Thanks. That's why I asked dilettante to submit evidence backing what he was saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    On the multi-tasking thing I think Joachim and Esposito are both right but you're using different language. Esposito is referring to human multi-tasking, i.e. can I sit at a computer and be working on two tasks at once. In that context the ability to trivially flick between two windows and even see them along side each other is absolutely vital. Android does not currently support this but I agree that this is more to do with limitation in the hardware rather than a limitation in what Android could potentially achieve; it will be a trivial gap for Andorid to close when they decide that it's apropriate to do so. Joachim is referring to computer multi-tasking, i.e. can the machine carry out two tasks at once. Android already does support this, I can't think of a single modern OS that doesn't, in fact, so really isn't a point worth debating.
    You hit the nail on the head. I think multi-tasking is of little use if you can't switch from an app to another with a single click and you can't see the two windows at the same time. Android and iOS have multi-tasking capabilities but they don't allow you to exploit them to the maximum extent possible. Ammunition kept in your pockets when it should be fired is wasted.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  26. #106
    I'm about to be a PowerPoster! Joacim Andersson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    14,649

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    I never argued that Android is going to take over the desktop world, I don't think it will. However new devices and OS'es such as Android will have a big impact on the PC world and the number of users that will use desktop applications. You can easily see that today in the sales figures for PC's. Everybody says that Windows 8 has been a disappointment when looking at the adoption rate and the sales figures. However if you compare Windows 8 sales with Windows XP (for the same length of time period) and factor in the dropped sales figure of PCs then you'll notice that they are in par. So Windows 8 sales hasn't been that bad however it haven't made sales for PC's go up either.

    Having applications side by side is perhaps convenient but only to a certain extent and I don't think that is so very important for doing multitasking work. What's more important is that you can quickly switch between applications, which you can on iOS and Android devices. Having apps side by side on a phone would just be terrible simply because of the small screens while you could still argue that it could bring value on the larger tablets, however their screen real estate isn't so large either. However saying that Android doesn't allow this is absolutely false since you can have that. An example already shown in an earlier post is the Galaxy Tab 10.1.

    I only find it useful to have applications side by side when I have multiple displays but not an a single display. I can still get notifications about things like new e-mails so that I can switch to the e-mail client when I'm ready to read them.

    Saying things like "tablets are great for consuming information but not to create it and therefor it's not really viable in the workspace" is just wrong IMHO. There are places where a desktop is more suitable but that doesn't mean that within an enterprise they can replace a lot of them with other devices. In a warehouse for example a phone could be enough to scan and pick stuff onto or off the shelves without the use of a laptop or something else. The data can be stored in the cloud or on a server within the enterprise but the staff in the actual warehouse wouldn't need to have any other computers but a phone or a tablet. That can in many cases also be true for the salesforce. A sales man might need to create a lot of documentation but that doesn't require a PC, if you're uncomfortable writing large documents with an onscreen keyboard (I know I would be) there is nothing stopping you from using a bluetooth keyboard connected to a tablet. If it's a regular document you create then viewing that (as you create it) in portrait mode also makes more sense than to view it in landscape mode which is far more common on a PC.

    Will any of this remove the desktop PC? No, but it will certainly remove a lot of them. With less desktop computers in use in the world, less desktop applications needs to be made.

  27. #107
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Forum sites like this one primarily cater to small-scale programmers. That can be a kid in school, a hobbyist, Mort doing some programming as an adjunct to a non-development job, or a small ISV.

    When you look at the forums for Windows Phone and WinRT programming here it is pretty obvious those aren't very approachable for the little guy. It can't be the tools at fault, because Microsoft and 3rd parties have done a lot to provide tools. The same sort of thing applies to iOS devices. These all tend to be less attractive because there are intentional deployment obstacles on these platforms as well as a design philosophy that is more server-centric than small guys are used to.


    Microsoft gives every indication that Windows-as-we-know-it will continue to evolve away from the Win32 desktop and further into the territory of today's WinRT. We can expect Apple to evolve their desktop OS in a similar direction, and it already seems to be happening there.


    Meanwhile Google's OSs are evolving in the other direction over time. Chrome OS never was a phone or tablet OS, and has been put under one roof with Android in the past year. Android gained multi-user logon support and now different user privilege levels in the past few releases making it resemble the evolution from Win 9x to Win NT.

    And Android is more open from an individual developer's point of view. That's the main significance it should have for us: you can distribute software through any of several "stores" or no store at all.


    So my point is that you should hope Android gains a foothold in desktop computing if you want to keep writing the kinds of programs you are used to writing. Everyone else is throwing the little guy under the bus.

    That seems like a much better bet than hoping nobody will ever move off Windows XP or that Microsoft is going to change its direction back toward XP.

  28. #108
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    So my point is that you should hope Android gains a foothold in desktop computing if you want to keep writing the kinds of programs you are used to writing. Everyone else is throwing the little guy under the bus.
    Then you should say clearly that yours is just wishful thinking and not a conclusion based on statistics or documentary evidence.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  29. #109
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson View Post
    Having apps side by side on a phone would just be terrible simply because of the small screens while you could still argue that it could bring value on the larger tablets, however their screen real estate isn't so large either. However saying that Android doesn't allow this is absolutely false since you can have that. An example already shown in an earlier post is the Galaxy Tab 10.1. I only find it useful to have applications side by side when I have multiple displays but not an a single display. I can still get notifications about things like new e-mails so that I can switch to the e-mail client when I'm ready to read them.
    Sorry, but I disagree. What's so terrible about having two apps side by side on a 10-inch Windows Surface Pro tablet? Indeed, you can work quite well. After all, a 10-inch display is not that small.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  30. #110
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Compared to a phone, a 10 inch display isn't all that small, but there are plenty of apps that I wouldn't be thrilled to use on a 10" screen even if the app had the whole screen. VS comes to mind. So, side by side depends on what items are side by side. In any case, I think you and JA are talking about a pretty minor quibble. Somebody decided that the apps should get the whole screen when the screen is really small. That may or may not be a good decision, but it was made and can be changed. I don't think that tablets or phones are ultimately where the technology is going. They are just a step along the way, so I'm not going to waste any time worrying about whether I can have two apps running side by side on what amounts to a horrible screen.

    As for where the technology is going: I don't want Android to take over unless it takes over 100% (or 95% with 5% left over for those rabid apple fans). It doesn't benefit me to have multiple, incompatible, OSes out there. I've lived through that already and it doesn't make the world better. I would say that one of the biggest drivers to Windows success is the history of Windows success. Businesses don't really care about the underlying technology. They don't care if Android is cooler than Windows, or Apple. They want to know whether or not their software will run on it. Re-writing everything to a new platform is not something that most businesses want to do. Therefore, I'll write for what is here, at the moment, not for what I think will happen in the future. If what is here changes, then I'll change with it. I'm not interested in guessing, and writing for, the future which may or may not arrive. I certainly benefit from having a single, common, platform to write for, and I realize that platform may change, but I'm not looking forward to that change. The reluctance of business to move to Win8 en masse may reflect the business cycle more than any referendum on the OS.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  31. #111
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    The reluctance of business to move to Win8 en masse may reflect the business cycle more than any referendum on the OS.
    About this last point, I asked all of my colleagues why they didn't want to upgrade to Windows 8. To my surprise, I found out they believe that Win8 is a completely new OS focused on Metro apps, while legacy applications are barely compatible with it. This, of course, is absolutely false, but it brings me to the conclusion that, by introducing the Metro interface, MS shot themselves in the foot.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  32. #112
    Fanatic Member esposito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Perugia, Italy
    Posts
    961

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    As for where the technology is going: I don't want Android to take over unless it takes over 100% (or 95% with 5% left over for those rabid apple fans). It doesn't benefit me to have multiple, incompatible, OSes out there. I've lived through that already and it doesn't make the world better. I would say that one of the biggest drivers to Windows success is the history of Windows success. Businesses don't really care about the underlying technology. They don't care if Android is cooler than Windows, or Apple. They want to know whether or not their software will run on it. Re-writing everything to a new platform is not something that most businesses want to do.
    I strongly believe that one of the biggest drivers to Windows success was its cheap price. The Mac had been around for a long time when Windows became successful and, like all Apple's products, it was extremely stable and easy to use. The only reason why Windows prevailed over the Mac was its low price. With Windows, the average citizen could afford to buy a computer at last.

    Back to Android and iOS, the tablet market is already monopolized by Apple and Google. To get a dominant position on the tablet market, Microsoft should perform a revolutionary "act of courage" and release a very cheap tablet running classic Windows. As I said, it should cost no more that 299,00 euros. This way, the miracle they worked with Windows 3.1 would be repeated, as the average citizen could once again afford to buy a useful product that would guarantee full compatibility with the applications running on his or her home PC. So, they should invest more in hardware and pay more attention to classic Windows than WinRT (the latter being a commercial flop). I see no other way for MS to become successful on the tablet market.
    Since I discovered Delphi and Lazarus, VB has become history to me.

  33. #113
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    There are places where a desktop is more suitable but that doesn't mean that within an enterprise they can replace a lot of them with other devices.
    I agree but it's interesting that the 2 examples you picked were Warehouse and Salesmen. Niether of these are "office" enviroments in my opinion. A warehouse clearly isn't and, to be honest, most don't have desktops in them now. Maybe one or two to act as docking stations for the scanners but that's it. The desktop has never had a home in that enviroment so it's not being eroded in the way that people seeem to fear. Salesmen are out on the road rather than based in offices and portability therefore becomes the trump card. Of course, when that salesman decides to write a lengthy covering letter to one of his clients he'll probably sit at a desk to do it. When he just want to check his diary to see where his next appointment is he'll do it on his iPhone - in fact, he already is. so the desktop's home isn't so much the "business" as the "office". Until we see the office dissapear we won't see the desktop dissapear.

    I think that's my point, it's not that the desktop world is the be all and end all of the computing world, it's not. But those areas that can naturally shift onto other platforms pretty much already have and the desktop is still here. Without another major shift in the hardware forms we're using I don't see a significant erosion of the desktop marketplace on the horizon.

    if you're uncomfortable writing large documents with an onscreen keyboard (I know I would be) there is nothing stopping you from using a bluetooth keyboard connected to a tablet
    That's true. I actually think there are two choke points for a tablet being used for general office use: screen size and input devices, both of which which could be resolved separately with "plug-ins". Of course, you're probably not going to want to carry a keyboard and pair of monitors around with you (at least in their current form) so you're then really talking about docking stations on desks. I can definetly see that happening but, if it does, we'll probably want a desktop orientated operating system to run on it.

    If that's the case then MS's attempt to merge a tablet gui with a desktop gui would be right on the money because we're not just talking about an OS that needs to work across different devices, we're talking about an OS that needs to work differently on the same device according to the experience the user wants right now. From what I've heard of Metro (I'll freely admit that I've barely tried it beyond an occasional 5 minute shufle on freinds' machines) I don't think they've been particularly successful in their first attempt but this isn't the first time they've released a product where we all baulked at the UI (Office Ribbon anyone?) and they've got a track record of learning from their mistakes.

    I'll write for what is here, at the moment, not for what I think will happen in the future
    My philosophy entirely. There's no shame in being a year or two behind the curve.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  34. #114
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Quote Originally Posted by esposito View Post
    I strongly believe that one of the biggest drivers to Windows success was its cheap price. The Mac had been around for a long time when Windows became successful and, like all Apple's products, it was extremely stable and easy to use. The only reason why Windows prevailed over the Mac was its low price. With Windows, the average citizen could afford to buy a computer at last.
    I think that was a big part of it, and a big part of why it was cheaper was because it wasn't tied to any one particular hardware. Apple built and sold Apple computers, so they dictated what went into them. Early Apple systems adopted SCSI drives at a time when they were superior to all the rest in performance, but cost considerably more than the competing architectures. Furthermore, the PC could be built with either SCSI drives, or not, so the PC consumer could choose what they wanted to use and what price they wanted to pay. I feel that this ability to tinker with the hardware, and not be tied to a sole source manufacturer, not only kept the price of PCs lower, kept the technology moving forwards faster, but also made them more appealing to geeks who wanted to get into the guts of the thing.

    I remember buying the best video card on the market only to have it drop off the market only six months later because it was so far out of date. During that time, an Apple fan could choose between two different graphics systems, and that was it. They had the better one and the cheaper one, while PC users could get a better graphics system every two months if they wanted to. Of course, those were also the days when the Mac OS was so unstable that the Apple trade journals all had articles that referenced the fact that changing the hardware on a Mac was liable to cause you days or weeks of headaches as you tried to get your system stable again.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  35. #115
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Yep, acai berrys are definitely an alternative to .Net. You could also use Apple, or a Blackberry.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  36. #116
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Or just give it the raspberry.

  37. #117
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,598

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Are you guys high ?
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  38. #118
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    I guess you missed the spam post about acai berries earlier.

  39. #119
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,598

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    Guess I did
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  40. #120
    Serge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    2,744

    Re: Alternative to VB.net ?

    I know this is a fairly old thread but I wanted to drop a few words about mobile OS'. People who don't see "mobile" apps replacing desktop don't realize that ONE of every SEVEN people on the planet use mobile EXCLUSIVELY to surf the web. In today's day and age, all companies think GLOBAL. For example, take India, this country is not shy from using internet BUT, its poverty is HUGE. Many people cannot afford a desktop and a monthly payment for the internet but most of them have cell phones and THIS is what the companies are banking on. I suggest you all take a look at Scott Hanselman's presentation on mobile web.


Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width