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  1. #1

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    Hyperactive Member Poppa Mintin's Avatar
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    Visual Basic is a con !

    At last, after about twenty years the penny has dropped.

    I've just realised why I struggle so much with the Visual Basic part of Visual Studio, which I'm told is actually VB.NET, it's because I'm still trying to program in BASIC.
    That's the point isn't it? Visual Basic isn't BASIC... Anyone remember what the acronym BASIC originally stood for? Especially the 'B'.

    "Ok guys, we've got this new programming language, we've used as many of the keywords from BASIC as we could so that we can call it Basic, after all... Go with the name you know !"
    "If we use lower case letters nobody will notice... With all these other new languages springing up, if we call it Basic we'll sell a whole lot more than if we give it yet another new name".


    Author's Note.
    A phrase we here in the UK use from time to time is 'The penny has dropped' it means we've been slow to realise a truth.

    It most likely stems from the old Victorian arcades of penny slot-machines. Pennies in those days (and up until 1972 in fact) were quite large and relativly heavy, made of a soft copper alloy which would often get damaged, these pennies would often stick in a machine necessitating a thump, or worse, to loosen them before the penny would finally drop allowing the player to play the machine.


    Poppa.
    Last edited by Poppa Mintin; Apr 12th, 2013 at 07:02 AM.
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  2. #2
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    lol that post reads like it belongs in chit chat
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    VB is BASIC but much more besides. You can still write programs as they were in old-style BASIC but not if you want an event-driven GUI. BASIC couldn't do that so if that's what you want then there's no use complaining that VB is not the same as the original BASIC.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    VB is BASIC but much more besides. You can still write programs as they were in old-style BASIC but not if you want an event-driven GUI. BASIC couldn't do that so if that's what you want then there's no use complaining that VB is not the same as the original BASIC.
    Oh, I'm most definitely not complaining... Just voicing a frustration. I've completed several projects of which I was very pleased just using my own subset of VB.NET commands, but I've come to realise how very small my subset is. I'm certainly not knocking VB, I get a lot of fun out of trying to program my trivial little projects, spending hours at my PC often incurring the wrath of SWMBO.

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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Well if it makes you feel any better, VB.Net is more similar to BASIC than C,C++, PHP, JavaScript, HTLM, Java, ASM, C#, F#, MSIL, Oxygene, Haskell, Lisp, Pascal, Erlang, Ada, SmallTalk, Fortran, D, Python, COBOL, T-SQL, Eiffel, E# ,Brain****, and LOLCODE. I'm pretty sure they're a few more its quite dissimilar from
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  6. #6
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Have you ever actually read a How To on VB or just muddled through? It might not be a bad idea to work through something coherent and sequential. It might seem that some of it is cast below your level but there are definitely some fundamental concepts that you seem to have missed altogether. I'd suggest working through something like this:

    http://www.homeandlearn.co.uk/net/vbnet.html

    from start to finish. That should sort out some of the worst holes and then give you a better grounding to work from in future.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Moved to Chit Chat
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Well if it makes you feel any better, VB.Net is more similar to BASIC than C,C++, PHP, JavaScript, HTLM, Java, ASM, C#, F#, MSIL, Oxygene, Haskell, Lisp, Pascal, Erlang, Ada, SmallTalk, Fortran, D, Python, COBOL, T-SQL, Eiffel, E# ,Brain****, and LOLCODE. I'm pretty sure they're a few more its quite dissimilar from
    Delphi maybe ?



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  9. #9
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Delphi is a dialect of Pascal according to the internet.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Delphi is a dialect of Pascal according to the internet.
    Delphi is to Pascal pretty much as VB is to BASIC.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    "Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code"

    There! You have it.


    Now why it doesn't sound basic, maybe the beginners too have evolved.
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Delphi is a town in Greece. It's a good place to visit if you want to communicate with Oracle.
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    I love this site"Home and learn"! Well presented and has great support. It has been helping me jump from the very old school basic.
    Last edited by BecauseIcan; Apr 8th, 2013 at 08:22 AM.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppa Mintin View Post
    At last, after about twenty years the penny has dropped.

    I've just realised why I struggle so much with the Visual Basic part of Visual Studio, which I'm told is actually VB.NET, it's because I'm still trying to program in BASIC.
    That's the point isn't it? Visual Basic isn't BASIC... Anyone remember what the acronym BASIC originally stood for? Especially the 'B'.

    "Ok guys, we've got this new programming language, we've used as many of the keywords from BASIC as we could so that we can call it Basic, after all... Go with the name you know !"
    "If we use lower case letters nobody will notice... With all these other new languages springing up, if we call it Basic we'll sell a whole lot more than if we give it yet another new name".


    Author's Note.
    A phrase we here in the UK use from time to time is 'The penny has dropped' it means we've been slow to realise a truth.

    It most likely stems from the old Victorian arcades of penny slot-machines. Pennies in those days (and up until 1972 in fact) were quite large and relativly heavy, made of a soft copper alloy which would often get damaged, these pennies would often stick in a machine necessitating a thump, or worse, to loosen them before the penny would finally drop allowing the player to play the machine.


    Poppa.
    I too started with basic, so I realize the frustration. Try the home and learn site it really is helping me a lot.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Delphi is a town in Greece. It's a good place to visit if you want to communicate with Oracle.
    That was a very pithy comment. In fact, it was a pythia comment.

    The problem is not so much that it is a con it's that you stepped out for a bit. Had you been in the mix from VB1-VB6, then on to VB.NET, you'd have seen a steady transition as new features built onto existing ones and replaced others. The steady pace of change would be apparent. As it is, you effectively traveled through time, got older (darn it), and found that things had changed. That's the basic situation here.
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    That was a very pithy comment. In fact, it was a pythia comment.

    The problem is not so much that it is a con it's that you stepped out for a bit. Had you been in the mix from VB1-VB6, then on to VB.NET, you'd have seen a steady transition as new features built onto existing ones and replaced others. The steady pace of change would be apparent. As it is, you effectively traveled through time, got older (darn it), and found that things had changed. That's the basic situation here.
    I hate the getting old part. I do the math 5+3=8...I am only 8. That is my prospective!

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Yeah... it's been interesting to see the changes to BASIC over the years...
    I've gone from Apple BASIC -> PC BASIC - GW BASIC -> VB3 (now that was a rough transition) -> VB4 -> VB6 -> VB.NET -> ??? who knows what the future will bring?
    Along the way I also learned (in no particular order) Pascal, C, C++, C#, Ada, Fortran, COBOL, Assembler, SQL, HTML, Javascript, miniscule Java, PHP, and I'm sure there's something I'm missing.

    To some extent, VB is still very much a basic language... it's just that it does so much more than it used to. It, just like me, evolved over time, learned new tricks and picked up new features along the way. So has C#, so has C++... so has most any language that is still relevant today... even COBOL and, yes Ada... guess what? there is a .NET implementation of Ada... A#... seriously... developed as part of a thesis project at the US Air Force Academy... Considering that Ada is supposed to be the de facto standard programming language in the AF, I don't find that all that surprising.

    Bottom line is that with all the changes in technology, the languages also have to evolve and change so that they stay relevant, otherwise people will drop it in favor of something else and it eventually dies.

    Unfortunately it does mean there isn't a "basic" language any more...which may or may not be a good thing...

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Well there's always Small Basic, the other .Net Basic.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    In my opinion, VB6 was the last true BASIC and ill explain why. Its cause applications can be written so much faster than in VB.Net. For every new version of VB.Net to come out, it ends up becoming more and more like java or C#. And its so much harder to work with than VB6. Its more of a learning curve for beginers. This is why VB6 continues to be widely used to this day even though MS abandoned support for it.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Roman View Post
    This is why VB6 continues to be widely used to this day even though MS abandoned support for it.
    I find it interesting that, while Microsoft has ended official support for every old product and will eventually end support for all their current products, VB6 is the only product whose support has ended that is continually claimed to have been "abandoned". I've never heard anyone claim that Microsoft abandoned Windows XP. VB6 developers seem to think that they have some greater right than users of any other software Microsoft has ever created.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    VB.Net is more basic then the com versions of Visual Basic drag drop and a few lines of code and you have a simple program! Whereas creating the same program in the COM versions could be a nightmare.
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    I find it interesting that, while Microsoft has ended official support for every old product and will eventually end support for all their current products, VB6 is the only product whose support has ended that is continually claimed to have been "abandoned". I've never heard anyone claim that Microsoft abandoned Windows XP. VB6 developers seem to think that they have some greater right than users of any other software Microsoft has ever created.
    Just a small correction. Windows XP is still under extended support until April 2014, and some are complaining about it now. Though I agree, no one has been vocal as VB6 community. Personally, I'm still maintaining some legacy projects in VB6 and I look forward to the day we either rewrite them in something else or abandon them.

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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    I apologize to the board for posting myself twice... what can I say I'm a newbie. Sorry
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    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Roman View Post
    In my opinion, VB6 was the last true BASIC and ill explain why. Its cause applications can be written so much faster than in VB.Net. For every new version of VB.Net to come out, it ends up becoming more and more like java or C#. And its so much harder to work with than VB6. Its more of a learning curve for beginers. This is why VB6 continues to be widely used to this day even though MS abandoned support for it.
    I sincerely hope you're joking. There is no way on God's green earth you can develop equivalent applications faster in VB6 than in VB.Net. You might as well try to paint the sky red with paint brush. There is NOTHING that can be done in VB6 faster than in VB.Net...lemme say that again, there is NOTHING that can be done in VB6 faster than in VB.Net. I'll also add that there it can also be done better.

    Before you write me off as some kind of nutty .Net fanboy ....Note that I have spent way more time in VB6 than in VB.Net. I've only been writing code in Vb.Net for a few years whereas I previously used COM based flavors of VB since VB2 I believe it was. VB2 was released in 1992 and I started .Net with 2008 so that's about 16 years in pre-VB.Net VB. Also note that I was really really really stubborn about leaving VB6 for VB.Net. I used to think as you did, that VB6 was Oh so perfect and that VB.Net couldn't offer anything that VB6 didn't already do well. Boy was I wrong!!!. VB6 now feels clumsy and dated. After you use VB.Net for a while, it really drives home just how clunky and awkward VB6 and its ilk really is. I could go on and on but I'll let the language speak for itself:-

    vb Code:
    1. Private Type Person
    2.     Name As String
    3.     age As Long
    4. End Type
    5.  
    6. Private Sub Form_Load()
    7.     Dim people() As Person
    8.     Dim peopleUnder20() As Person
    9.    
    10.     ReDim people(0 To 6)
    11.    
    12.     people(0).Name = "John Henry"
    13.     people(0).age = 15
    14.    
    15.     people(1).Name = "Merry Hopkins"
    16.     people(1).age = 14
    17.    
    18.     people(2).Name = "Jonnah James"
    19.     people(2).age = 13
    20.  
    21.     people(3).Name = "Richard Falks"
    22.     people(3).age = 44
    23.    
    24.     people(4).Name = "Jenny Ming"
    25.     people(4).age = 33
    26.    
    27.     people(5).Name = "Jerry Seinfeld"
    28.     people(5).age = 25
    29.    
    30.     people(6).Name = "Heaven Drake"
    31.     people(6).age = 10
    32.  
    33.     peopleUnder20 = GetAllUnder(20, people)
    34.    
    35.     For i = LBound(peopleUnder20) To UBound(peopleUnder20)
    36.         List1.AddItem peopleUnder20(i).Name
    37.     Next
    38.    
    39. End Sub
    40.  
    41. Private Function GetAllUnder(ByVal age As Long, ByRef people() As Person) As Person()
    42.     Dim newArr() As Person
    43.     Dim count As Long
    44.        
    45.     For i = LBound(people) To UBound(people)
    46.         If people(i).age < age Then
    47.             ReDim Preserve newArr(count)
    48.             newArr(count).age = people(i).age
    49.             newArr(count).Name = people(i).Name
    50.             count = count + 1
    51.         End If
    52.     Next
    53.  
    54.     GetAllUnder = newArr
    55. End Function

    The above VB6 code creates a list of people and adds only those who are under the age of 20 into a ListBox. Here is the equivalent VB.Net version:-
    vbnet Code:
    1. Public Class Form1
    2.  
    3.     Private Sub Form1_Load(sender As System.Object, e As System.EventArgs) Handles MyBase.Load
    4.         Dim people As New List(Of Person)
    5.  
    6.         people.Add(New Person With {.Name = "John Henry", .Age = 15})
    7.         people.Add(New Person With {.Name = "Merry Hopkins", .Age = 14})
    8.         people.Add(New Person With {.Name = "Jonnah James", .Age = 13})
    9.         people.Add(New Person With {.Name = "Richard Falks", .Age = 44})
    10.         people.Add(New Person With {.Name = "Jenny Ming", .Age = 33})
    11.         people.Add(New Person With {.Name = "Jerry Seinfeld Henry", .Age = 25})
    12.         people.Add(New Person With {.Name = "Heaven Drake", .Age = 10})
    13.  
    14.         ListBox1.Items.AddRange((From person In people Where person.Age < 20 Select person.Name).ToArray)
    15.  
    16.     End Sub
    17. End Class
    18.  
    19. Public Class Person
    20.     Public Property Name As String
    21.     Public Age As Integer
    22. End Class

    Look at that....hell even the forum agrees with me....It didn't even need a scrollbar for the VB.Net version. I'd sooner chew off my own fingers than go back to VB6 God hear me lol.

    [EDIT]

    Btw...It took me 20 minutes to write the VB6 version and 1 minute to write the VB.Net version.

    Now I'll admit my VB6 is quite rusty and I had a few hiccups as a result of forgetting certain absurdities in VB6 like the fact that For...Each can only work on primitive types, having to go back and create a counter variable just for Redim Preserve, having to move the type declaration to the top because VB6 would not resolve it if it wasn't and having to declare the type private because VB6 or rather COM doesn't allow you to pass around VB6 UDTs publicly. Doing this reminded me of just how clumsy VB6 really is. Anyways, in my peak VB6 days I would have written that in about 5 minutes....still a lot longer than it would take in VB.Net.
    Last edited by Niya; Apr 9th, 2013 at 02:26 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  25. #25
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    You know what....I challenge you or any other VB6 programmer to present a problem that you believe can be solved in VB6 faster and/or better than in VB.Net.

    [EDIT]

    I'll tell you the one thing I can think of to get that out of the way. Writing structures. If given a structure like the bitmap file format header structure, VB6's Get and Put can read and write them as is. VB.Net requires a little more effort.
    Last edited by Niya; Apr 9th, 2013 at 02:35 AM.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

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    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    You know what....I challenge you or any other VB6 programmer to present a problem that you believe can be solved in VB6 faster and/or better than in VB.Net.

    [EDIT]

    I'll tell you the one thing I can think of to get that out of the way. Writing structures. If given a structure like the bitmap file format header structure, VB6's Get and Put can read and write them as is. VB.Net requires a little more effort.
    There are undoubtedly some things that VB6 can do more easily than VB.NET but I think that, when it comes to creating a useful application, a VB.NET developer will be able to finish the job sooner than an equally skilled VB6 developer. If you want to take all the shortcuts that VB offers, e.g. Option Strict Off, then you could do it more quickly still but, even following best practice, almost all useful applications will be built as quickly or more quickly in VB.NET. Even the the things that take some effort in VB.NET can be wrapped in a component with a simple interface and then the second time you do it it takes virtually no time at all.

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  27. #27
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    ...will be built as quickly...
    True if you're talking about spreading a button on a form to show a MessageBox but anything approaching even the slightest complexity would be faster done in VB.Net.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  28. #28
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    There is NOTHING that can be done in VB6 faster than in VB.Net
    ...other than opening the ide in the morning
    When one of my minions says, "Hey, he's just one guy, what can he do?" I say "This"... and shoot them.

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  29. #29
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    ...other than opening the ide in the morning
    Greatness always has some cost
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  30. #30
    Member BecauseIcan's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Just wondering
    In you opinion if you are a newbie why would or won't you start in vb.net? I read this thread everyday and now am questioning my decision to start with vb.net.
    Some days are just like that I don't get it!

  31. #31
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    I think VB.Net is an excellent choice for a newbie. It's a verbose language so it's easy to read. It's feature rich so there's plenty of scope for growth as you want to improve. And it has probably the best ide available (say what you like about MS, visual studio has been way ahead of the competition since VB4... and probably before that but that's as far back as I go).

    About the only downside is that you will have to live with a bit of occasional (miss-informed) snobbery from some quarters. C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". But hey, while you're learning VB.Net you should also be learning general programming theory and that's transportable to any platform you like.
    When one of my minions says, "Hey, he's just one guy, what can he do?" I say "This"... and shoot them.

    The problem with putting your lair in a volcano is keeping your robot army from melting.

    I know that the human being and the fish can coexist peacefully - George Bush

  32. #32
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    For years I have been a math junkie. I have written the math to build a complete cabinet (kitchen, utility, floor , wall mount) and it works great for me. But because these programs are generally sold in separate parts(doors, frame, counter top) and are way to pricey. Not to mention the egging on from my son. I want to develop it better. It will probably take another 7 years. But that is ok. I call it the amateur cabinet builder. I set out to learn vb because I could not find a starving programmer.

    Thanks for the input!
    Some days are just like that I don't get it!

  33. #33
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Are you talking about product configuration software? If so that was a significant part of my last job. We used to do Conservatory Blinds and Shutters and you'd be amazed at how many possible configurations there are for a seemingly simple product. For us the only way we could achieve it was to write 90% of the logic in code which always stuck in my craw because it meant we had to re-engineer the software every time the product range got tweaked.

    About the only way you could make it properly flexible would be to use attribute value pairs. I still think that idea has legs but there are REAL problems implementing it as a pattern. Oddly enough, I think the pattern's also applicable to marketting and CRM (which is my other "area of expertise") if you can get past the implementation issues.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Apr 9th, 2013 at 10:25 AM.
    When one of my minions says, "Hey, he's just one guy, what can he do?" I say "This"... and shoot them.

    The problem with putting your lair in a volcano is keeping your robot army from melting.

    I know that the human being and the fish can coexist peacefully - George Bush

  34. #34
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints".
    This is signature worthy truth right here!

    [EDIT]

    Its now in my sig...
    Last edited by Niya; Apr 9th, 2013 at 10:38 AM.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  35. #35
    Member BecauseIcan's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    My test model is in excel. It only calculates board feet and cuts. It does not render drawings yet. I have written building order notes. I based my concept on american construction these are not frameless. For now I am happy just to please myself. I have tested the math in others homes. There are many different configurations.

    Thanks for your thoughts
    Perhaps I should have started a new thread I don't want to take away from the original topic
    Some days are just like that I don't get it!

  36. #36
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    It only calculates board feet and cuts
    Oh I think I get it. By the way, if you've done anything that optimises the cuts (e.g. get as many doors as possible out of a single sheet of wood) then definitely wrap it up into an application because there's money in them there maths. It's quite easy to do in 1 dimension but once you get into 2 or more it's quite tricksy and there are alot of manufacturing companies out there who'll happily pay for it.

    Its now in my sig...
    aww, shucks, my habitual cynicism has finally made me net-famous.
    When one of my minions says, "Hey, he's just one guy, what can he do?" I say "This"... and shoot them.

    The problem with putting your lair in a volcano is keeping your robot army from melting.

    I know that the human being and the fish can coexist peacefully - George Bush

  37. #37
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    aww, shucks, my habitual cynicism has finally made me net-famous.
    Don't you forget your non-famous friends up there now
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  38. #38
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by BecauseIcan View Post
    I apologize to the board for posting myself twice... what can I say I'm a newbie. Sorry
    It's not being a newbie, it's a feature of the forum, currently. There are times when it hits pretty much everybody these days. This really began with the software upgrade last summer, and has gotten progressively better since then, but still remains.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  39. #39
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    If you want to take all the shortcuts that VB offers, e.g. Option Strict Off, then you could do it more quickly still
    I doubt that you could speed up development by even a second by turning Option Strict OFF. In fact, I would guess that you would actually slow down because you would have to stop and think to get out of the habits that Option Strict requires. Option Infer is the same way. If you leave if OFF for a long time, then turn it ON, it's VERY hard to take advantage of that minor increase in speed. This is what I like best about those options: Leave them in the correct configuration and pretty soon you will just be writing better code in such a way that even if you turned them off, you would continue writing well.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  40. #40
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Basic is a con !

    Actually Jmc is right. Option Strict On does slow you down. I write code with it off because its really breaks my flow when I have to CType and DirectCast everything. When I'm close to completing or actually finished with a specific class or set of classes I sometimes go back and place it on top of the code file and then clean up all the errors it catches. Surprisingly, they're not that many. Usually I get about 3 - 4 errors. Even when in my "flow" I have a habit of using DirectCast/CType, but sometimes I forgo it when I'm not sure I'm going to stick with a particular piece of code. I usually need to test it quickly and change it quickly and Option Strict On gets in my way in under these circumstances. My coding style can be described as "develop while I code". I keep a vague concept of what I want to achieve in my head and sculpt the code live. I can't afford to be stuttered by the IDE at that time. I can tolerate it when everything has been fleshed out and its just a matter of refactoring here, changing the name of a property there. You know, like tidying up.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

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