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Thread: Website design - any advice?

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    Website design - any advice?


    We've gotten wind recently that sometime - maybe 6-12 months down the line - we'll have to build a web application. Our current project is a rich-featured windows application using a third party graphics tool by ESRI. Basically what we'll have to do is recreate the application as a web application - keeping as much of the rich functionality as possible.

    No one on the project has built a website from scratch, although we both have some experience in the past with asp/asp.net. Not only will we code the project, but we'll also do the design work for it as well. I'm not sure which version of the .net framework we'll be using - probably either 2008 or 2010.

    So what I'm looking for are some good references for both coding and design. Anybody have a recommendation for a good website or book?
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    Hyperactive Member jasonwucinski's Avatar
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    I think the reason you haven't gotten a response yet is because the challenge of explaining all that goes into an enterprise level web application can be daunting. Not to discourage you, but if this application is crucial to your business it may be better to outsource the project or higher someone with the appropriate skill level. That being said, here are some things you should do some research on:

    1. Security. How will your application preserve the integrity of its data and maintain confidentiality (if that's a concern). Will this be a role based system? I would guess so (various users with various levels of authorization to view/edit data)
    2. Infrastructure: How will this site be hosted. the .Net framework and Visual Studio versions 2008/2012 are two different things. The Visual Studio 2008 and 2012 are IDE's (integrated development environments) that are use to create your applications. The .Net framework is the underlying framework your application will run on, on its server. You can use either Visual Studio IDE and any .Net Framework. As for the framework, I would use at least 3.5 but this will depend on your server.
    3. Design patterns. Do you want an MVC pattern or "regular". Each has its benefits and detractors.
    4. Application architecture: Look into how to create multi-tiered (or N-Tiered) applications. This will allow you to separate the various layers of your application. This form of decoupling can have many advantages.
    5. Database Design: This is incredibly important. A poor design in the beginning can lead to disasters in the end. You will most likely be creating a relational database schema. Look into normalizing your database and its importance.

    I'm sure there are plenty of books out there. But, you can find just as much (or more) on line by Googling the topics I brought up.

    Good luck
    jason
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  3. #3
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    Disagree on 3 and 4.
    You shouldn't just bump to n-tier.For once we don't know what is the times and the internet speed he needs.N-tier is slower, i believe, of everything, excluding the sqldatasource.
    MVC is just a personal hatred but if i wanna give an excuse is that MVC applications are probably used at 0,1% compared to Asp.net ones.
    About 2. I have used 3.5 on a 2003server with a computer of 6-7 years old and is working like a charm. On the other hand 2008 server (i've used RC2) is slow as hell.
    4.0. framework is nothing special compared to 3.5 for web development but if you have vs2010 installed, i guess you don't have a choice(unless it has a switch somewhere, donno).
    The real "advantage" is the IIS7(7.5) vs IIS6 server. Although IIS7 is slower and it pisses me off with every single detail you have to be aware of, to make it run smoothly, i have to admit that it has more capabilities.Not sure if it's of equal speed to IIS6.I didn't have a site on both IIS to compare but from what i see IIS7 runs slower if in idle mode, at least i was seeing that when i had IIS6 available.
    For database design, would have to say, DON'T USE ACCESS.Anything but access.
    So my advice is any Visual studio from 2008 and after, with service pack.SQL server 2008 (i am not happy with 2012, is super slow on my machine, don't know if a full service pack is ready) or mysql or oracle(NOT ACCESS!!!).
    Server 2008rc2 or the other one, the Apache one, ye that thing.Lot of ram,fast disk and high inet speed.
    For books, i would suggest someone to hire, if you are rushing to do the job.If not there are the usual Wrox and Microsoft books (Wrox being probaly better for beginner but a mess for advanced).
    For design i can't recommend one as i am reading here and there, so i suck at design :P .
    P.S. If you are just starting with asp.net then you can probably kiss your rich winform design functionality bye bye.If you go on replicating the tools you use so far,men, you gonna run in to so much trouble, i can tell ya.
    Last edited by sapator; Dec 28th, 2012 at 07:24 PM.
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    To an extent, the framework, IIS version, and database type will be determined by the customer. This project will be for the U.S. military, and whatever organization that is tasked with the hosting will probably have definite guidelines on the software versions we can use. I doubt we'll get stuck with Access - probably Oracle or SqlServer. I suppose the possiblity does exist that it will be a unix shop and we'll have to use php or Java, but I'm thinking that is unlikely.

    What are your thoughts on AJAX and it's usefulness in adding to the user experience?
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  5. #5
    King of sapila
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    If you mean the toolkit, i use it but you have to be aware of the overhead it may produce.
    If you start of fresh then probably jquery and Json is better.
    http://encosia.com/why-aspnet-ajax-u...are-dangerous/
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    I know nothing about the toolkit - didn't even know it existed. I remember using the httprequest object MANY years ago on a simple website I built to track weekly status reports for the team. I get the impression that AJAX builds on that.
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    King of sapila
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    Ok.Then Ajax is a must, if you don't ask about the toolkit.
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    Hyperactive Member jasonwucinski's Avatar
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    If you are designing your project using Visual Studio, I would recommend using the included Ajax Control Tool Kit. I believe 2008 and above has it included. If not, you can download it here: http://ajaxcontroltoolkit.codeplex.com/

    As for its usefulness: As I'm sure you know, HTTP is a stateless protocol, meaning the server processes a request and gives it to the client server. There is no communication going back and forth until a new page is requested. That's why we have to use things like query parameters and session variables to communicate between post backs. Ajax is a means to create much more rich and user friendly experience. In part, this is accomplished by allowing the developer to create partial postbacks (using update panels). Essentially, you create a "Illusion" of a fully dynamic connection between the server and client PC. For example, look at Facebook's news feeds. Without refreshing your page you are able to get streaming updates in "real" time without having to download java applets, etc. This is done using some form of Ajax. You can accomplish this same experience with the AjaxControlToolkit, plus lots more.

    As for the earlier discussion, do not underestimate the importance of solid design patterns. You may choose not to user n-tiered design but you should understand why. Proper planning now will allow for a faster and less complicated design in the future. This is especially true for larger applications that will have scaling and growth concerns.
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    It would be nice to have a business logic layer residing in a webservice, if for no other reason that to be able to code the business logic in VB. I read an article written by a website designer/developer from microsoft talking about performance. He indicated that transfer between tiers was one of the worst performance problems you could have in a website. Our website, however, will have at most a few hundred users, many of which won't visit the site daily or even weekly. Those who do visit daily, however, may put a pounding on it, since we use a lot of graphical analysis on our site.
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    Hyperactive Member jasonwucinski's Avatar
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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    I should clarify: By tiers, I mean layers. You can abstract all the different functional layers (ie GUI, Data, Business logic) but maintain them all on the same server. I believe the issue with performance becomes a concern when you have your layers in physically different locations (servers).
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  11. #11

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    Re: Website design - any advice?

    According to the article I read, the performance issues were there even if the layers were on the same machine. Putting them on seperate machines just made the problem that much worse. I'm guessing it's an inter-process communication issue, but I'm not sure.
    I always add to the reputation of those whose posts are helpful, and even occasionally to those whose posts aren't helpful but who obviously put forth a valiant effort. That is, when the system will allow it.
    My war with a browser-redirect trojan

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