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Thread: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

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    whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    can someone explain

    i understand manuall coding is time consuming << skip this step


    explain

    about controls & ocx

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    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    What? your post/question makes no sense.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    For example

    Microsoft Internet Transfer Control (aka Inet) = MSINET.OCX

    Microsoft Rich Text Box = RICHTX32.OCX

    but

    Microsoft Internet Controls (aka WebBrowser) = SHDOCVW.DLL


    Inet, RichTextBox, WebBrowser are controls. An OCX is a file that contains the code and images that make a control

    You can make your own control, called User Control and when you save it you save it as a file as file type .ocx
    Last edited by jmsrickland; May 20th, 2014 at 08:43 PM.


    Anything I post is an example only and is not intended to be the only solution, the total solution nor the final solution to your request nor do I claim that it is. If you find it useful then it is entirely up to you to make whatever changes necessary you feel are adequate for your purposes.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    What? your post/question makes no sense.

    -tg
    I think he is referring to using references in a project rather than using the controls to do the same thing?
    when you quote a post could you please do it via the "Reply With Quote" button or if it multiple post click the "''+" button then "Reply With Quote" button.
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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Reminds me of the advice I once (ok, ...many times...) gave to salsa....read the book.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    sorry for late reply.

    i ment is when we all or just anybody starts a new project say u want to make a voice recorder and audio cd burner without the need of controls it will take time ryt to code all of it manually coz we need to add alot of modules maybe or so.

    but i seen audio burner controls dont require many modules or heavy coding everything is done from that control all u need to do is setup the commands and it will work i just wanted to know more info about controls comparing manuall coding.

    i have over 1000 premium controls all works but i dont know how to set up the codes in command button etc anybody needs it pm me i wil send u also i need help , these controls u will not find anywere.


    i wanted to make controls little difficult

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Well in general the difference is that when you go with a straight code option you have to write the code, all of it.
    If you have an OCX or DLL that does what you need then some of that code is already written which means you can save some time.
    Now if the control/dll does exactly what you want then great if not then you're back to writing code, possibly a lot of it.

    Consider the simple little Text Box for example. You simply drag it onto the form and set/check its text property. If you were to do this through code [not just loading a control through code but drawing it and handling the events yourself] there would be quite a few lines in just getting something like a text box to display and more to do processing.

    I would suspect that if you have over 1000 premium controls that they are probably not legal to distribute or possibly even have on your system, seeing that you do not even seem to understand what an OCX is I would be extremely surprised if you had spent the thousands of dollars that many controls would cost you.

    It is also against the rules here [and on most sites] to pirate software, which sounds like what you are offering to do via PM

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    If I got one of your apps and it has a 3rd party control I would throw it away. I never use 3rd party controls nor do I accept software that contains them.


    Anything I post is an example only and is not intended to be the only solution, the total solution nor the final solution to your request nor do I claim that it is. If you find it useful then it is entirely up to you to make whatever changes necessary you feel are adequate for your purposes.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by jmsrickland View Post
    If I got one of your apps and it has a 3rd party control I would throw it away. I never use 3rd party controls nor do I accept software that contains them.
    I rarely use much in the way of 3rd party controls but I do have a few of them, most I don't use any more but occasionally the need arises.
    For example I have a few DART controls that are pretty good for FTP, HTTP and such. Haven't used them now in over 10 years though. I have an Email control for VB.Net that works on mobile devices that comes in handy.

    For the most part though the only add on I use in most programs is Active Reports which IMO is an absolute must have for any VB program that has a reporting feature. I have been using that now since around 1998 first in VB5 and then in VB6.
    I do have several other controls that I have used in the past such as SaxComm, PDQComm, SaxBasic, one for creating barcodes and one for creating gant charts but most of those were last used in the 90s

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post

    I would suspect that if you have over 1000 premium controls that they are probably not legal to distribute or possibly even have on your system, seeing that you do not even seem to understand what an OCX is I would be extremely surprised if you had spent the thousands of dollars that many controls would cost you.

    It is also against the rules here [and on most sites] to pirate software, which sounds like what you are offering to do via PM
    your funny man u like u

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    nope non i offer if pirate do not missleade others plz because it grabs allot attention if you are certain the mention it otherwise dont be a mind reader thanks datamiser

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    PowerPoster Arnoutdv's Avatar
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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by jmsrickland View Post
    If I got one of your apps and it has a 3rd party control I would throw it away. I never use 3rd party controls nor do I accept software that contains them.
    Then I assume you don't have anything installed on your windows computer.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Don't be ridiculous, of course I have apps installed on my computer.

    I would think you are smart enough to know what I am talking about.


    Anything I post is an example only and is not intended to be the only solution, the total solution nor the final solution to your request nor do I claim that it is. If you find it useful then it is entirely up to you to make whatever changes necessary you feel are adequate for your purposes.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by jmsrickland View Post
    Don't be ridiculous, of course I have apps installed on my computer.

    I would think you are smart enough to know what I am talking about.
    jmsrickland

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    If you use a lot of or even any 3rd party controls, getting help becomes a lot harder as most will not have the control you are using and would not be able to load your project. They also may not have an idea what methods, arguments, bugs may be in said control(s).

    I think what jmsrickland was referring to was if you posted your project here for help and he downloaded it that he would just delete it once he saw it used these controls as would I and many others.

    As for the previous post by me, I inferred that "premium" means not freeware. If you actually meant freeware or open source then you should say so. "Premium" implies high end and generally high cost. Some may cost in the neighborhood of $500 each and others may charge per PC they are used on and pretty much none would allow you to give them to other people. In fact even many freeware and open source projects place restrictions on distribution.

    So be careful there, make sure that you are legally allowed to distribute something before you actually do or in this case even offer to on a public forum.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    I think what jmsrickland was referring to was if you posted your project here for help and he downloaded it that he would just delete it once he saw it used these controls as would I and many others.
    Exactly

    Now if the control came with the source code, like a User Control, then that is different and even then there are exceptions, like for example, many of the VB projects posted by Olaf Schmidt contain VBRichClient and I don't want to download and install it and what if I wanted to use some of the sample codes to make another project and distribute it I would have to include VBRichClient or tell users to download and install it


    Anything I post is an example only and is not intended to be the only solution, the total solution nor the final solution to your request nor do I claim that it is. If you find it useful then it is entirely up to you to make whatever changes necessary you feel are adequate for your purposes.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by jmsrickland View Post
    Exactly

    Now if the control came with the source code, like a User Control, then that is different and even then there are exceptions, like for example, many of the VB projects posted by Olaf Schmidt contain VBRichClient and I don't want to download and install it and what if I wanted to use some of the sample codes to make another project and distribute it I would have to include VBRichClient or tell users to download and install it


    you se the user controls can be usefull and can be used in other projects.

    when you finished of your project and compiled the exe , package and extract the project using vb6 built in package installer , this will create a folder were ever you want and it will grab all dependency ocx+controls then that exe will run fine on any pc.

    to use user control on different project first in package dev in vb6 get all dependency for all controls after u have what u need add them to new project i have done it i seen it work no issues.


    just say i have all dependency extracted by vb6 package dev tool , now i will use 3rd party installer ( setup factory ) this will install all dependency in new pc making sure all ocx and dll go into the right place and register before using software


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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Most of us know all that but it does not change anything. You seemed to miss the point here.

    I for one will not install/register 3rd party controls on my system just to look at a project for someone of course there could be exceptions to that, a customer, a good friend, a control I would like to have installed anyway and such.

    There have been a few posters here who have posted projects for help and then when you download them you find that they have 1 or more 3rd party controls, maybe several of them and the project can not be loaded without those installed and registered so it turns out to be a waste of time for everyone.

    3rd party controls are good in many ways but as a general rule don't use them if you don't need to. If you do use them and run into trouble be prepared to consult their documentation or visit their forums for help. Any control that is not part of VB6 and not widely used will be much harder to get help with on a forum such as this and lots of us do not like the idea of having to register controls to look at a project.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by jmsrickland View Post
    Now if the control came with the source code, like a User Control, then that is different and even then there are exceptions, like for example, many of the VB projects posted by Olaf Schmidt contain VBRichClient and I don't want to download and install it and what if I wanted to use some of the sample codes to make another project and distribute it I would have to include VBRichClient or tell users to download and install it
    You mean, you would restrict yourself in your Applications to only the VB-Runtime
    (and a bunch of APIs)?

    What about the MS-Flexgrid?
    What about the CommonCtl.ocx?
    What about Winsock.ocx or a bunch of other COMponents which you have no Sourcecode for?

    Are those out of the question as well?

    VB5/6 is the best COM-wiring tool available - you give a whole lot of productivity away when
    you try to accomplish everything in a Std-Executable without any dependencies to COM-libs.

    Since you mentioned my RichClient-stuff (3 Dlls which can be deployed in ~1.6MB) -
    it all comes down to trust (as long as the source-code is not available).

    And in case you shipped (at some time) an application with the MS-Winsock.ocx, then your
    trust into MS is apparently much larger, than the trust into a long-time VBClassic-community-
    member (who, if he had "evil intents" with those free libs, would long have been uncovered by
    other users of the toolset).

    But maybe it's not the trust-topic which plays a role in your decision, but the "ease of deployment"
    (The goal being an App which runs everywhere without setup, directly from a folder or USB-stick).

    In this case you can use a Manifest-approach for this kind of regfree-deployment - or alternatively
    one of the 3-Dlls of the RichClient-package (DirectCOM.dll) which allows the same thing without
    manifests.

    Here's the code for a startup-*.bas module which contains Sub Main, which shows what's needed,
    to enable regfree-mode on the RichClient-Classes (assuming the 3 Framework-Dlls are placed in
    a SubFolder of your *.vbp (or later the *.exe) location, named \RC5Bin\:

    Code:
    Option Explicit
     
    Declare Function LoadLibraryA Lib "kernel32" (ByVal lpLibFileName As String) As Long
    Declare Function GetInstanceEx Lib "DirectCom" (StrPtr_FName As Long, StrPtr_ClassName As Long, ByVal UseAlteredSearchPath As Boolean) As Object
     
    Public New_c As cConstructor, Cairo As cCairo
     
    Sub Main()
      LoadLibraryA App.Path & "\RC5Bin\DirectCOM.dll"  'preload DirectCOM.dll from Bin-Path
      
      'regfree instantiation of the RC5-constructor-object
      Set New_c = GetInstanceEx(StrPtr(App.Path & "\RC5Bin\vbRichClient5.dll"), StrPtr("cConstructor"), True)
      Set Cairo = New_c.Cairo 'and here we already use the constructor, to create a Cairo-instance
    
      MyMainForm.Show
    End Sub
    That's all what's needed, to ship your Executable with RC5-dependencies regfree
    (no manifests needed in this case - any RC5-class can be derived from the New_c object).

    E.g. this download here demonstrates that approach of such a regfree running RC5-App,
    which can startup directly from the folder, contained in the 7Zip-archive below:
    http://vbRichClient.com/Downloads/MandelbrotThreaded.7z (about 1.6MB deployment-size)

    It's an Application which demonstrates the threading-support of the RC5 (autodetecting the
    available CPU-cores - and spanning a threadpool in the appropriate size - calculating something nice...


    The RC5 is not a "product" I try to sell here - please consider it a gift to the community -
    there's no other intent behind it.

    Olaf
    Last edited by Schmidt; May 23rd, 2014 at 03:05 PM.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    You're thinking just like cobraide and Arnoutdv. I'm not referring to controls that came from Microsoft (I don't consider them 3rd party even if they are).


    Anything I post is an example only and is not intended to be the only solution, the total solution nor the final solution to your request nor do I claim that it is. If you find it useful then it is entirely up to you to make whatever changes necessary you feel are adequate for your purposes.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by jmsrickland View Post
    You're thinking just like cobraide and Arnoutdv. I'm not referring to controls that came from Microsoft (I don't consider them 3rd party even if they are).
    Still fail to see the logic behind that distinction.

    If there are good libs from experienced members of the VBClassic-community - I'd prefer
    those over anything from MS (no matter if in source-code or only as binary-versions)...
    It depends on the developer or company which provides those tools - and if they have
    "a reputation, to not produce junk" - then I don't see any real difference, compared to the
    stuff MS provides (or has provided for VBClassic).

    E.g. MS will not give you an updated Unicode-version of the CommonControls-OCXes, just
    "because you asked nicely" - whilst Krool reacted immediately to this request in his CCR-project.

    In case you are using MS-dlls and -ocxes you already admit, that you're not unwilling to use COM-
    references (which you don't have the sources for) in your project, to save yourself lines of code,
    calling pre-encapsulated routines which are able to solve "difficult stuff" in a convenient manner.

    In case of compiled libs from "active community-members you trust" you can even "talk to the guys" -
    (pointing out misbehaviours or bugs - make feature-requests, etc.)

    That alone is a huge difference to MS-compiled binaries right there.

    Olaf

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    I can understand DM's point about not wanting to install some 3rd party component just to trouble-shoot somebody's problem here. I'd feel the same.

    But it makes no sense to me whatsoever to proclaim that you would not develop something using a 3rd party component "because you would have to include it or tell users to download and install it". If something is reliable and proven then what's the problem? Sometimes it seems to me that this stance toward 3rd party controls is something that's just repeated parrot-fashion without actually thinking about the lack of logic behind it. In commercial environments where policy is a factor, I get it but other than that...
    If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there...

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    If you or anyone posts a zip file and I download your zip file and unpack it and I go to run the VB project and it doesn't work because it has a missing dll, ocx, and I find out it is not a standard MS file or it's something I have never heard of or it's something you got from somewhere and I have to go and download it also then I am not going to do that. This is what I am referring to.

    If I post a zip and you download it and you find out that in the VB code there is a comment that I put there saying you need to go to my web site and download qwert.dll would you do it?


    Anything I post is an example only and is not intended to be the only solution, the total solution nor the final solution to your request nor do I claim that it is. If you find it useful then it is entirely up to you to make whatever changes necessary you feel are adequate for your purposes.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    For me it depends on who is posting and if I'm willing to help on the topic. If it's someone new and just asking to code everything for them, then no I won't make the effort to go and download a 3rd party controls. On the other hand if it was a known member and I know I could help then probably I would go and download it.

    It all comes down to if the control is right for you and works good and also free to redistribute then I would not mind including it.
    If it's just a simple control I would just recreate the control the way I want it.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Quote Originally Posted by Max187Boucher View Post
    For me it depends on who is posting and if I'm willing to help on the topic.
    OK, let's say it was me. You downloaded the dll from my site, installed it, ran the VB project and then your system froze. You have to reboot to get back to where you were. Now what? You contact me with your complaint and I say well it works on my system I got that dll off the internet and I don't remember from where. You might just say well I won't run that project anymore but still that doesn't discourage you from doing it again. OK, fine. After you have had similar problems several times because you 'trust' the poster (someone else for example) you might just start being a little reluctant from doing it again. Well, that's where I am at. So, I just have a policy to not do it in the first place and avoid any possible problem(s) like I have had in the past.
    Last edited by jmsrickland; May 23rd, 2014 at 07:21 PM.


    Anything I post is an example only and is not intended to be the only solution, the total solution nor the final solution to your request nor do I claim that it is. If you find it useful then it is entirely up to you to make whatever changes necessary you feel are adequate for your purposes.

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    Re: whats the difference betweet , manual coding , controls , ocx

    Like I said, I wouldn't download and install a 3rd party component just to troubleshoot somebody elses code. I thought that was pretty clear in my post. What I don't understand is why you'd be so reluctant to actually develop something using 3rd party components just because you have to then distribute that component. My post was pretty clear on both points, IMO.
    If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there...

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