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    World War

    The First world war and the second world war was about 25 years apart, It has been almost 70 years since the end of the second world war, I'd say we are overdue for number 3. Who do you think will start number 3 ?

    Personally I think both Israel and Iran are willing to attack each other, they just need a catalyst.(Although if they fight it might not end up as a world war unless they drag their allies into the fight and even then I doubt it)

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    Re: World War

    I'm not totally convinced we ever really left WII. Since the official end we've almost been in a state of Perpetual War with brief "respites" where proxies were used for the initial stages of opening up a new theater of war.

    Maybe the main distiguisher was that in 1945 the "fascists" were done and the conflict became Communism vs. Capitalism... and later I'm not quite sure what to call the two sides.

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    Re: World War

    I'm not totally convinced we ever really left WII.
    Of course we did, just because there lots of other smaller wars afterwards doesn't mean they are all part of the same conflict.

    With that argument you could say that there was no world War II at all it was just a continuation of World War I.

    Who do you think will start number 3 ?
    no one just yet, wars are expensive (just look at the amount of money the US in particular and the UK have spent in Afghanistan) and i dont think anyone has the appetite for a really big war just yet.

    Saying that i am sure we will see more wars, just like i am sure the sun will rise tomorrow, i do think we will probably see more smaller wars rather than 1 big war, it looks to me that there is a fair amount of conflict out there still.
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    Re: World War

    The messes in Korea and Indochina began as a direct offshoot of WWII.

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    Re: World War

    When you consider the Korean War (you can call it a conflict if you like, but people shooting at each other is war as far as I am concerned) and the Vietnam War, the Cold War, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, there has been a conflict of one kind or another every decade... one could view it as a precursor to something larger (like pre-shock leading up to larger earthquake) or smaller tremors that relieves the pressure.

    Personally I think the next major war that happens on a global scale will be an economical one... or if there is going to be a physical war the catalyst will be financial based rather than philosophical or socially based.

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    Re: World War

    Actually, there has been these conflicts throughout American history, and before that they came throughout Eurpoean history. Each one sows the seeds of the next, in some way. WWII directly resulted from the decisions made at the end of WWI, while the Korean War and Vietnam War arose from the decisions made at the end of WWII. A good book on the subject is In The Ruins of Empire, which chronicles the conflicts that arose after the Japanese defeat in places such as the Philipines, Vietnam, Indonesia, Korea, and China. However, if you add in Grenada, then you really have to add in all the very similar, and closely related, actions that the US took in the area for a couple centuries. The book The Savage Wars of Peace, shows that these conflicts have been nearly perpetual. Peace is relatively rare.

    If you go further back, you can see that what the US calls the French and Indian War led to the Revolution, which led to the War of 1812. It all ties together in some way, though some wars tie more strongly to others than the rest. Still, conflict is the only real constant, and anybody who goes looking for relationships between the sequences of wars will find those relationships.
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    Re: World War

    So very true... I'd heard of "In The Ruins of Empire" ... haven't read it though... might pick it up from amazon after I'm done with my current book. Never heard of "The Savage Wars of Peace" ... but I certainly can agree to the conclusion... actually it would be pretty hard to refute it... all you can really do is maybe argue the cause/effect of wars that precede/follow.

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    Re: World War

    That latter book describes all the minor American conflicts from the Barbary Pirates campaign (the shores of Tripoli) up through Vietnam. The Vietnam War is included, though only very lightly, because the author contends that it was actually a mis-handled 'small war' rather than a large war. The number of conflicts is really pretty impressive. Quite often, the size of the US forces involved was a company, or so, and there was often very little actual fighting going on, but there sure were lots of invasions.

    The one that they don't talk about was the phony war between the US and France. I've seen two references to it now, and all I know about it is the time frame (1790s, I think), and that it was just naval, but all that does is makes me curious.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    However, if you add in Grenada, then you really have to add in all the very similar, and closely related, actions that the US took in the area for a couple centuries.
    Couple centuries? US has only been a country for a little more than a couple centuries.
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    Re: World War

    True, and we have been invading countries in central and south america, as well as islands in the area, for pretty nearly the entire time. That's what the book was about: All those minor, largely forgotten, actions. We learned a great deal during that time, and the Marine Corps actually wrote a book on how to conduct these small-scale operations, but the book was largely forgotten as a result of WWI and WWII. The author argued that the Vietnam War was largely a result of the US trying to apply the lessons of WWI and WWII to a situation where the earlier, then forgotten, book on small wars would have applied more readily.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    True, and we have been invading countries in central and south america, as well as islands in the area, for pretty nearly the entire time.
    That is what bugs me about the US, they are always having a fight with someone.

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    Re: World War

    Found this on google news.
    You guys think this article has any basis ?
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...186698,00.html

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    Re: World War

    no... not really... the better argument has been why they won't...
    1) what will the bombing accomplish? Not a lot... it'll only set them back a few years. So what's Israel going to do? Continuously bomb Iran ever 2-3 years? Highly unlikely. It's unsustainable.
    2) Even if Israel were to bomb Iran's nuclear capabilities... Iran's still going to have conventional weapons... enough bring down a rain of terror on Israel.
    I'm sure the Israeli govt is watching them... there's probably a fair amount of nervousness going on ... but they're not stupid.

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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by BlindSniper View Post
    That is what bugs me about the US, they are always having a fight with someone.
    that's an absurd notion... every nation is guilty of this to some degree... UK, France, Spain, Russia, the Romans, the Greeks, just to name a few. There has been some kind of armed conflict going on some where every decade in the world for ... some time. Sadly, it's human nature... I doubt the human race will ever achieve full enlightenment and ascension. We're too arrogant and too primal.

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    Re: World War

    As long as a country feels strong, it will pick on others. That does seem to be the rule throughout history. The countries that don't get into fights with anyone else are those who are too weak to even consider it.

    As for the article, it states early on that only a few cold wars have resolved without turning into hot wars. So what, that doesn't make the result of Iran-Israel automatic. Frankly, I think that one is more likely than not to resolve in a more peaceful fashion. Not entirely peaceful, mind you, considering that it hasn't been peaceful so far, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the direction of Iran change in the coming decade. The leadership of that country is somewhat at odds with its people, and has been for over a century. The direction the country has taken has veered dramatically at different times, usually as a result of horrible mismanagement by the supposed leaders. Another wide deviation seems more likely than not. Whether the new direction will be towards peace or war is an open question, but peace seems somewhat more likely, to me.
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    Re: World War

    I think some form of conflict in the middle east is actually fairly likely, particularly given the Arab Spring which is going to further muddy the water.

    At the moment the region is mostly divided along religious lines. The Arab Spring will bring a new ideological division between the surviving autocratic systems and any new democratic systems that form. The autocratic regimes stand to lose a great deal of credibility if new democracies succeed so it's in their interests to undermine them. And new democracies do tend to try and export their democracy - which usually isn't welcome.

    The scenario of a middle east conflict growing into a world war seems far less likely to me though. You get world wars when great nations fight and, in our modern globalised world, the great nations have far more to gain by staying out of direct conflict with each other than they do by piling in. That doesn't mean you won't continue to see proxy wars - particularly if another power grows to rival the US economy - but the conflicts will be kept low key and as deniable as possible.


    edit>
    As long as a country feels strong, it will pick on others.
    I think it's even more basic than that. Folks just fight... the strong ones win.

    As for the article, it states early on that only a few cold wars have resolved without turning into hot wars.
    You don't even need the "So What", on that point the article is just plain wrong. Plenty of cold wars have been resolved without escalating to a full blown conflict. The British Empire was built on a succession of cold wars with the European powers during the 18th and 19th centuries. The Hundred Years War was far more cold than hot. Hell the ancient greeks were at it in the Peloponesian wars which spent far more time cold than hot. We just tend to learn about the hot bits because the cold bits are quite boring. In fact you could argue that all nations have engaged in permanant cold wars with each other ever since someone came up with the idea of trade tariffs.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Feb 9th, 2012 at 11:35 AM.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Peace is relatively rare.
    It's the lull between the reports when both sides reload their guns, or scout for alternative battling sites.

    I am sometimes afraid the WW 3 may never happen and we may be wiped out just like that. That would be pathetic.

    Someone said economic wars? That's been going on since the invention of money. And all the wars have basically driven out of the economic hunger. So the two are two sides of the same coin.

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    Re: World War

    Well it would be quite stupid if no one survives, and with current technology that would only be possible if Russia and/or the US carpet bombs the earth with nuclear missiles.(I wouldn't mind seeing a carpet bombing of nuclear missiles, but not on this planet.)

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    Re: World War

    Would carpet bombing result in rug-ed terrain?

    Once again I find myself agreeing with FD. After all, what the heck is a cold war?
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    Re: World War

    One lousy pun and the thread has given up the ghost....
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    Re: World War

    Not related to a world war but: Did anyone read/heard about the problems between England and Argentina about Malvinas (Falklands)? England won the war in 1982, now Argentina has proposed that the Islands sovereignty dispute should continue pacifically but offcourse England won't agree with this. England has already sent war ships and submarines to the islands and the newspapers say they recently contacted Chile (Chile has been a very important base for them in 1982 for fuel recharging).
    I'm from Argentina but i'm not taking sides on this, just hope all this won't end like in 1982.

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    Re: World War

    Of course they won't continue it pacifically, the islands are in the Atlantic.

    The dispute over these islands is pretty strange. After all, it doesn't sound like the few residents of those stark, wind-swept piles of rock (which I'd kind of like to visit, actually) are getting much say. It also sounds like the residents lean British, but ties to both countries are sound. Both sides have valid claims.

    So what's the point in the current conflict? The old war sounded like a little political ploy by the old regime in Argentina, rather than an issue that people really cared about. The only thing I can think of regarding those islands is that somebody wants the fishing rights within the territorial waters around the islands. Is there anything else there other than sheep and rain?

    Oh wait, that's probably why England wanted the islands in the first place: Rain? Check! Sheep? Check! Islands? Check! No France in sight? Check! Yup, those islands have it all.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by BlindSniper View Post
    ...I'd say we are overdue for number 3. Who do you think will start number 3 ?
    I think it still has several decades to evolve. I think the trigger will be natural resources whether it be oil or possibly fresh water.

    Until that happens, unless a superpower starts a war to assume dominance over a resource-rich region, I think battles will be either ignored/tolerated or joined by small groups of nations vs. involvement of all of the superpowers. I do think the next big one will be over oil or water
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    Loquacious User Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: World War

    Back in our salad days, it was always over Oil and Vinegar.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    ..Rain? Check! Sheep? Check! Islands? Check! No France in sight? Check! Yup, those islands have it all.
    One more thing: oil? Check! and more here
    Last edited by jcis; Feb 15th, 2012 at 09:32 PM.

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    Re: World War

    I guess the costs of mounting a proper war are too high. Most of the times we shall keep seeing sporadic instances of bombings, either by humans or drones, and threats and counter threats. It's too early to start a full blown offensive. The US of A certainly can't afford it anymore at this point in time, and naturally no one else would be stupid enough to do it on their own.

    The Falklands is an interesting diversion from the usual Iran and the general Middle East debate, or the Chinese human rights record, for that matter. Sadly newspapers here are not much interested in global news that far away.

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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by jcis View Post
    One more thing: oil? Check! and more here
    I hadn't realized that. Oil does tend to grease the skids.
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    Re: World War

    Certainy the Falklands conflict in the 80s was cause by little more than politics, on both sides. I wasn't aware of the oil resources jcis linked to so that raised an eyebrow for me and certainly gives an explanation as to why it's all being dredged up again now. (If I was Shaggy the pun in that last sentence would have been both deliberate and funnier but for me it was entirely accidental).

    This time round I doubt it's going to come to armed conflict but I do think the politicians on both sides could do with growing up and not squabbling like little kids. Surely Kirchner must realise that us Brits are not going to give up the Falklands or refrain from tapping any oil reserves it has so she's just picking a fight for the look of it. Equally, Cameron's sabre rattling and jingoism in response was totally over the top and unneccessary. I'm guessing the truth is both just needed a bit of a popularity boost and decided to appeal to the lowest common denominator in their respective electorates.

    Would carpet bombing result in rug-ed terrain?
    You just keep pileing on the puns don't you. We'd try to hem you in but personally I'd rather have a nap instead.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Feb 17th, 2012 at 05:28 AM.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Would carpet bombing result in rug-ed terrain
    While doing a 60km mountain biking exercise, I understood your pun. lol

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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post

    You just keep pileing on the puns don't you. We'd try to hem you in but personally I'd rather have a nap instead.
    Gawd! This is turning into wall-to-wall puns.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by BlindSniper View Post
    While doing a 60km mountain biking exercise, I understood your pun. lol
    You have amazing control over your bike, I must say.

    And I realized the pun about two days after it was posted, partially due to my head feeling lighter and heavier at the same time.

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    Re: World War

    As you can imagine, a 60km mountain bike is not very good in the corners, but luckily we have loads of open space here.

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    Re: World War

    Gawd! This is turning into wall-to-wall puns
    It's true. Weave gone too far.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    The dispute over these islands is pretty strange. After all, it doesn't sound like the few residents of those stark, wind-swept piles of rock (which I'd kind of like to visit, actually) are getting much say. It also sounds like the residents lean British, but ties to both countries are sound. Both sides have valid claims.
    They do indeed "lean British". In the most recent referendum held on this issue in the Falklands, over 90% of the populace voted to remain British.

    For what it's worth, the British government have on several occassions offered to take this dispute to the International Court of Justice:

    Following the Argentine claims, the UK repeatedly (in 1947, 1951, 1953 and 1954) offered to take the matter to the International Court of Justice in the Hague but this was turned down by Argentina. When Britain took the issue to the court unilaterally in 1955, Argentina declined to cooperate, citing a lack of jurisdiction.
    I think this is quite an interesting take on it, where the Falkland Islanders invite the Decolonization Committee president to visit:

    http://en.mercopress.com/2011/06/21/...it-the-islands

    Propoganda, eh?
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  35. #35
    Loquacious User Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleDuncan View Post
    They do indeed "lean British".
    Well, it is clear that nobody leans American. We're getting less and less lean every day!
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Would carpet bombing result in rug-ed terrain?
    Methinks Shaggy needs a (ahem) shag.

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    Re: World War

    i submitted 10 puns to a pun contest, hoping one would win.
    but no pun in 10 did

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    Re: World War

    Very nice piece of thoughts, given by all respected members but whatever the situation may be, But we should all pray that May God protect our earth, our homes, our lives, children, parents, brothers and sisters and all others, along with entire humanity, from the evils of war and terror.

  39. #39
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    As long as a country feels strong, it will pick on others. That does seem to be the rule throughout history. The countries that don't get into fights with anyone else are those who are too weak to even consider it.
    Reminds me of Itchy and Scratchy from The Simpsons where they are trying to blow each=other up using bigger and bigger weapons each time with the world in the center.
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    Re: World War

    Quote Originally Posted by ADQUSIT View Post
    Very nice piece of thoughts, given by all respected members but whatever the situation may be, But we should all pray that May God protect our earth, our homes, our lives, children, parents, brothers and sisters and all others, along with entire humanity, from the evils of war and terror.
    I hope you realize you are asking God to protect all those things which cause all the wars?

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