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Thread: Why do people cheat?

  1. #41

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by EntityX View Post
    I just quoted you quoting honeybee.

    and don't quote me unless you want to quote me quoting honeybee quoting abhijit.
    You got that last bit wrong!

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  2. #42
    Fanatic Member EntityX's Avatar
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    ok so it should have been, and don't quote me unless you want to quote me quoting abhijit quoting honeybee.
    Make as many mistakes as you can as quickly as you can. We want to make sure that we make a great enough number of mistakes in a given amount of time so that we can be successful.

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  3. #43

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by EntityX View Post
    ok so it should have been, and don't quote me unless you want to quote me quoting abhijit quoting honeybee.
    But you didn't quote!

    Lord Orwell, I have seen people cheating in exams not because they were lazy but because it was the only option they could have passed. Students who have studied well for the exam would not cheat even if they knew they aren't going to top the exams. So I think it's something more than mere laziness. More like you want to overcome a handicap?

    Cheating will also happen when the stakes are high. An athlete wouldn't be caught doping in a friendly match or a charity match. But he could try it at Olympics. Possibly to doubly ensure he wins?

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  4. #44
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
    Lord Orwell, I have seen people cheating in exams not because they were lazy but because it was the only option they could have passed. Students who have studied well for the exam would not cheat even if they knew they aren't going to top the exams. So I think it's something more than mere laziness. More like you want to overcome a handicap?

    Cheating will also happen when the stakes are high. An athlete wouldn't be caught doping in a friendly match or a charity match. But he could try it at Olympics. Possibly to doubly ensure he wins?

    .
    I had this bad experience when I topped an exam then I was accused of using a leakage.
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  5. #45

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Leakage? What's that?

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  6. #46
    PowerPoster abhijit's Avatar
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
    Leakage? What's that?

    .
    "paper leak"
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  7. #47

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Ah, that!

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  8. #48
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by EntityX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abhijit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
    How does it drive evolution?

    And don't quote: Tigers don't cheat, so they haven't evolved.

    .
    I just quoted you.
    I just quoted you quoting honeybee.

    and don't quote me unless you want to quote me quoting honeybee quoting abhijit.
    Or how about quoting EntityX quoting abhijit quoting honeybee.

    I have way too close a deadline to be doing this, but I couldn't resist!!!
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  9. #49

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarMan View Post
    I have way too close a deadline to be doing this, but I couldn't resist!!!
    So you are supposed to be working, chasing the deadline, but you are busy quoting others here. Isn't that another form of cheating?

    There are no high stakes involved, it is not going to take you closer to your objective, in fact it will make it more difficult to achieve your objective and you know it too. So what makes you cheat like this?

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  10. #50
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by abhijit View Post
    There is a study that men are wired to cheat on their spouses. That's what the authors claim. Man wants to live forever and one way of doing this is to spread his seed as much as he can. I did find one link to the news item.
    Well, if you want to go there, the situation in nature is considerably deeper than just men cheating on women. Now that we can do DNA parental analysis, we have found that both genders cheat in a wide range of apparently monogamous species. Whether there is any species that is strictly monogamous without a certain level of cheating, I don't know.

    So why is that cheating going on? When two birds get together and build a nest, how come some of the eggs have a different father? It's hard to say for certain, we can only say that it is common enough to be unremarkable. Perhaps the female gains an advantage by getting different genes into the mix, just in case the official mate has a recessive genetic issue? There are other possibilities, as well.
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  11. #51
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    The question:
    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
    So you are supposed to be working, chasing the deadline, but you are busy quoting others here. Isn't that another form of cheating?

    There are no high stakes involved, it is not going to take you closer to your objective, in fact it will make it more difficult to achieve your objective and you know it too. So what makes you cheat like this?

    .
    (high stakes is VERY subjective so I will not comment on that)

    The answer:
    Quote Originally Posted by MarMan View Post
    I couldn't resist!!!
    What words need clarification, I or couldn't or resist?

    And if you ever work on a large project you will learn that as the deadline approaches things get hectic. I worked from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. on Tuesday. It can be helpful to give your brain a break and step back for 5 or 10 minutes. You will find that you may be able to think more effectively. So I may not have been cheating or possibly half-cheating, but I included it in the cheating category for the sake of this discussion.

    In this case EntityX brought up the opportunity for nested quotes. I wanted to post nested quotes but never saw an appropriate time until then. And you must strike when the iron is hot.

    And that is why I "cheated".
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  12. #52
    PowerPoster abhijit's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarMan View Post
    (snip). And you must strike when the iron is hot.

    And that is why I "cheated".
    I used the same line in court once, but the jury didn't see my point of view!
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  13. #53
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
    But you didn't quote!

    Lord Orwell, I have seen people cheating in exams not because they were lazy but because it was the only option they could have passed. Students who have studied well for the exam would not cheat even if they knew they aren't going to top the exams. So I think it's something more than mere laziness. More like you want to overcome a handicap?

    Cheating will also happen when the stakes are high. An athlete wouldn't be caught doping in a friendly match or a charity match. But he could try it at Olympics. Possibly to doubly ensure he wins?

    .
    that's what i am saying. If you already know the material, it's easier to take the test but if it comes down to pass or fail you will probably cheat.
    Quote Originally Posted by dee-u View Post
    I had this bad experience when I topped an exam then I was accused of using a leakage.
    sounds like you have a teacher like i did. Our psychology teacher was a joke. She gave us a midterm and exactly two students passed it. After berating the entire class for not learning properly, she then accused the only two who passed it of cheating. We were given a retest and the two who passed were moved seats. Not surprisingly, they both got even higher scores the 2nd time, topping the class. I hope Ms. Wiltsie chokes on her own face. I have plenty of issues with her besides this one.

  14. #54

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Orwell View Post
    ... Our psychology teacher was a joke. She gave us a midterm and exactly two students passed it. After berating the entire class for not learning properly, she then accused the only two who passed it of cheating. We were given a retest and the two who passed were moved seats. Not surprisingly, they both got even higher scores the 2nd time, topping the class. I hope Ms. Wiltsie chokes on her own face. I have plenty of issues with her besides this one.
    Maybe she went off her rocker after teaching psychology for so many years?

    Marman, many thanks for the reply. I hope you didn't take my post personally because it wasn't meant to be. I am happy this is one post we could see eye to eye.

    By stakes being (or not being) high I wanted to imply that the success of a project (specially a big one with many members) depends on so many factors that an individual's contribution sometimes may not be seen as decisive. In your case if you did it to give your mind a break, I wouldn't be classifying that as 'cheating'.

    abhijit, you obviously need to choose your audiences well

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  15. #55
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    How does it drive evolution?
    It looks like some other folks have given you some quite nice answers on this but they weren't quite what I meant.

    What I was driving at was that all evolution can be viewed as a sequence of attempts to 'cheat' the current system. All species are constantly trying to achieve an unfair advantage over other species. All individuals are constantly trying to to achieve an unfair advantage over the other individuals in their species. We're all trying to out-do each other all the time. It's that constant drive to break the current rules a species lives by that drives evolution.
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  16. #56
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    It looks like some other folks have given you some quite nice answers on this but they weren't quite what I meant.

    What I was driving at was that all evolution can be viewed as a sequence of attempts to 'cheat' the current system. All species are constantly trying to achieve an unfair advantage over other species. All individuals are constantly trying to to achieve an unfair advantage over the other individuals in their species. We're all trying to out-do each other all the time. It's that constant drive to break the current rules a species lives by that drives evolution.
    FD is prolly thinking of how humans tricked the Dodos into extinction.
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  17. #57
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    What I was driving at was that all evolution can be viewed as a sequence of attempts to 'cheat' the current system.
    We dont even properly understand the current system, so how do we know that we are cheating? maybe they are the rules !!

    All species are constantly trying to achieve an unfair advantage over other species
    Well it depends on how you define unfair advantage, but i would say that's just not true FD otherwise wouldn't it lead to something like a biological Arms race?

    All individuals are constantly trying to to achieve an unfair advantage over the other individuals in their species
    On what do you base this ? why does it have to be unfair ? what counts as unfair ?

    Is Usain Bolt racing you in the 100 Meters unfair ? or is it fair because Usain Bolt has trained most of his life for it to be better than other people at running fast and you haven't ?

    It's that constant drive to break the current rules a species lives by that drives evolution.
    What are the rules ? since we dont define the rules on evolution who are we to say that is what is happening ?

    I would say that evolution itself evolves and therefore cant break the rules as the rules are constantly changing.

    Now that's 10 question in this post alone FD, plenty for you to pick apart :0)
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  18. #58
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    Well it depends on how you define unfair advantage, but i would say that's just not true FD otherwise wouldn't it lead to something like a biological Arms race?
    Oh, you wouldn't BELIEVE how true that is....well, maybe you would. Still, it is pretty impressive.

    Consider the race going on in mice. The male mouse wants to be the sole sire to the most robust offspring. Therefore they have a gene that can make for larger, more robust, offspring, because the female might mate with multiple males, and the male can mate with multiple females. Of course, a larger offspring is not an advantage to the female, who will be more metabolically taxed, and can't have as many. The male benefits from having larger offspring with mutliple females, while the female benefits from having more, smaller, offspring. The result is that the male has genes that would create larger offspring, while the female has genes that supress the expression of the genes that the male is passing on. Stay tuned for the next development.
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  19. #59
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    We dont even properly understand the current system
    We don't have to. It's a process that's constantly going on in every living thing on the planet. It's nature.

    a biological Arms race
    I think that's a pretty good description of the evolutionary process.

    That's my point. Evolution can be seen as a series of 'cheats' (i.e. genetic mutations and shifts) resulting in the constant flux of the species on the planet. The first creature time a creature moved on land, that was cheating. The first time a creature flew, that was cheating/ And as for crafting tools, that was definitely cheating.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; May 22nd, 2011 at 08:23 AM.
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  20. #60

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    So essentially our cells are individual pieces of complex logic which can think for themselves, eh? Pretty interesting.

    Bionical Arms Race, anyone?

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  21. #61
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    So essentially our cells are individual pieces of complex logic which can think for themselves, eh?
    Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was getying at. Except it's not necessarily cells. It's all bots of life. The day evolution comes up with a different form of life that isn't cell based, and which has advantages over cell based life, it will "cheat" again.

    It's quite a loose use of the word "cheat" of course.
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  22. #62
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
    So essentially our cells are individual pieces of complex logic which can think for themselves, eh? Pretty interesting.

    Bionical Arms Race, anyone?

    .
    thinking is a strong stretch here but there is stimulus-response going on.

  23. #63

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    Thinking is essentially a stimulus-response activity, IMO. Only after the first stimulus that you receive from outside, you tend to 'simulate' the stimulii in your mind and check the responses to each of them. Sort of like a game of chess unfolding, to arrive at a decision.

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  24. #64
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    if thinking is really only stimulus response then there is no actual original thought and machines can replace us.

  25. #65

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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    But then isn't that going to happen? Robots are already developing their own language (check out BBC Technical News). It's just a matter of applying the basics to think out the advanced concepts.

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  26. #66
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    Re: Why do people cheat?

    i have a cyberman as an avatar. 'nuff said about that.

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