Going Mac, are they better?

[Icyculyr]

I've had enough of windows, bugs, problems, everywhere...

I've used a few mac applications, no problems...

So I figure if I run Parallel so I can program in VB, and just buy CS3, Office 2008 etc.. for Mac, 3DS max etc, it would be better?

I also find it much easier to pick an apple rather than a window,

But, is Mac better, worse, or the same, as windows, in terms of performance, and how applications are built etc...

Cheers
Icyculyr

[Lord Orwell]

os10 runs faster than vista or even xp thought about running and has lower system requirements. You can run parallels desktop with no issues and in fact even run directx games inside the emulator. Parallels has a concurrence mode that lets you overlay the windows programs on the mac desktop (or vice versa). Running a mac theme can make them indistinguishable. The only downfall to this is the increased load time because you have to load xp after loading osx.

As for using the OS itself:
Having used nearly every OS ever made, (including geos, os2, windows 1.0, 3.0, 3.1 3.1 for workgroups with 32-bit extensions, 95 1 & 2, 98 1 & 2, 2k, me, xp 32 & 64, server 2003, redhat 8 & 9, ubuntu 7, mac os 7, 8, and 10.4, and a couple of others i forgot), i have to say it's quite possibly the easiest to learn to use, while simultaneously containing all the power of a unix core.

Highlights:
Programs are extremely easy to install/uninstall (drag-drop to the applications folder)
Security is advanced but not intrusive (a padlock icon on important settings that requires admin password to unlock)
Graphical effects aren't overdone yet give you useful feedback
expose' is the best way i've seen to find an open window.
Supports multiple desktops (10.5 and above)
There are other things of course, and of course windows has some highlights as well, but my personal favourite is the common toolbar at the top of the window. It saves a lot of screen real-estate. Also every window has a "hide all toolbars on this window" button, giving it a minimalist view that also saves real-estate.

Also i am sure it will start a flame war, but Mac's firmware is much better. It's bios equivalent actually has a graphical interface and is mouse enabled. There are gobs of boot-time keyboard shortcuts such as holding down the option button to get a boot menu.
If money's not an issue, go with a nice full-size upgradeable system that supports pci express. I'm currenly posting this from my wife's mac-mini and the only thing i personally don't like about it is that besides memory, it's not upgradeable. It's fast enough to do what she wants it for, but i wouldn't want to use 3dstudio max on it.

[Icyculyr]

Hehe, thanks a lot...

I appreciate the info.

Cheers
Icyculyr

[Cander]

And don't forget all the other things that make a Mac awesome. Like iLife and how all those apps work seemlessly together. Easily create your own music with GarageBand, get it into iMovie to edit your own movies, and right into iDVD to burn it to a DVD.

And the small things like Spotlight, Smart Folders, and Automater that have power and flexability but are easy as dirt to use that you will at first not be sure what use they are, but as you play with them, you will learn to love them.

And Boot Camp to setup XP to dual boot was the easiest Windows install ever. All the needed drivers came ready with the OS X discs

[Lord Orwell]

i have to mention something here:
A lot of the apps that you just mentioned are trial versions in the install and you have to shell out a little extra to register them. I don't know about I-Life but i know for a fact Garage Band is, and i think Imovie is also., and I-Movie is a major pain because of the limitation of the video formats it supports.

Automater: Still trying to learn that...

Finally, i love the automatic updates feature, but why on earth doesn't it support file resuming? Yeah you can pause and restart, but if you lose internet connetion for some reason(say, you're on a dial-up) you have to start over! I finally gave up on the last service pack (90meg) until i got hi-speed. I must have wasted 30 hours. Made it all the way to 99% once.
HOWEVER on a good-note:
Application auto-updates (such as garage band) are integrated into the update system as well
Other great features: It comes with drivers for every cell phone if you have a data cable, it has a cleaner taskbar, most come with built-in bluetooth AND 802.11g/b. The open-firmware bios is so advanced, you can configure it to connect to bluetooth keyboards and mice from the bios. Plus if you're a fast web-surfer, benchmarks will show Safari is almost the fastest browser for any given situation. If that's not your kettle of fish however, there's versions of all your favourite programs available to run on os10:
Firefox and Thunderbird run flawlessly
VLC media player has an improved and more intuitive system settings setup
Real Player has a much better flv download which links so seamlessly into the browser that it captures the stream directly instead of downloading the file a 2nd time.
Parallels desktop integrates into the shell giving you much better synchronization between the host os and the client os, such as windows, but also linux, etc.
much more can be said, but that will do for now...

[Icyculyr]

That's awesome, is safari (on Mac) password protected, so you can't access it without an administrator password or anything?

Cheers
Icyculyr

[Lord Orwell]

only OS settings that are critical are set with passwords, the admin password. You can do OS10 exactly like xp and assign any restriction you want to a user account. For example lock out the internet.

[Icyculyr]

I see, that's cool

Cheers
Icyculyr

[Cander]

That is incorrect Lord Orwell. Every Mac comes with the complete iLife. Inlcluding GarageBand. You do however need to download the entire loop and sound pack for GarageBand but that is free.

You may be confusing it with iWork in which only the trial comes with a Mac.

And Automator is totally teh awesome.

Last night I had needed to pull down 300+ gif images from a web site, save them to a folder, turn them into pngs and chroma key the color back into transparency. It took me all of 1 minutes to build the Automator actions to do it for me automatically.

[Lord Orwell]

well it's my wife's computer anyway lol

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

os10 runs faster than vista or even xp thought about running and has lower system requirements.

I'll give you vista, but I would like to challenge you for mac faster than XP.

Though I think I better jump in and throw my 2 cents around.
From my experiences, everything you can do on a Mac you can do on a PC, even better. From a developers point of view, whenever I use a mac I always take one step forward, and 2 steps back. Almost every (free) piece of software I have used has been very buggy. Lets take sshfs, for some odd reason that doesn't like the newest version of ubuntu. Fugu doesn't work right with older Linux distros. My default unziping application is broken. I had even installed a "keyboard update" one time and my laptop keyboard stopped working. Don't even get me started with SVN on a mac.

Now, if your comfertable with just doing anything NOT related to gaming or the like. Such as office applications, photoshop, ect then go for Mac. If you going to any sort of programming, and/or gaming, PC (Windows) is the way to go. I just don't understand why people buy a mac, then install boot camp, and only run windows on it. Makes absolutely no sense to me. (This is what my school did, buy iMacs to replace the labs so the students would have a "choice". Well, guess what? I only saw the mac side used once or twice.)

At the end of the day whatever gets your job done better, faster, and more efficiently is the way to go.

[Lord Orwell]

there's a good reason for this. The world's fastest windows laptop is currently running on mac hardware. The systems are just faster. My wife's mini benchmarks faster than my athalon 64 system with high-end video card.

Not sure what unzipping app you use, but i use 7-zip on both windows and mac. I use videolan and realplayer as media players on both windows and mac. I use firefox and thunderbird on both windows and mac.

World of Warcraft runs natively on osx, but i also have the option of running it in parallels desktop. I can't run some of the newer games on Mac, but i can play a lot of them, such as unreal tournament. Pretty much any game that can use opengl has a mac version. Example: Quake wars.

I don't know where you're getting your mostly false information, but you're starting to sound like a mac-basher just for the sake of being one. Either that or you've been brainwashed. The mac's outlook is bright thanks to vista. More and more people have switched to mac because of it. And because of the surge in popularity, major games manufacturers have begun to port their hottest titles. Here's a link to the EA games page.
Here's a sample list of games available for mac. Most run on os9 or 10.

3D Hearts/Spades Deluxe
4x4 EVO 2
A Tale in the Desert III
Active Lancer
Activision Anthology
Age of Empires II: Gold
Age of Empires III
Age of Empires III: The WarChiefs
Age of Mythology
AGON
AirBurst Extreme
Airline Tycoon Deluxe
Alias Underground
Aliens vs. Predator 2
American McGee’s Alice
America’s Army
Ankh
Another War
Armado
Atari Arcade Classics
Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Baldur’s Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Battlefield 1942 Deluxe Edition
Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of WWII
Battlefield 2142
Bejeweled & Alchemy
Big Bang Board Games
Big Bang Brain Games
Billy Frontier
Bionicle
Birdie Shoot
Black & White
Black & White: Creature Isle
BloodRayne
Board Game Trio
Bugdom 2
Burning Monkey Casino
Burning Monkey Mahjong Solitaire 2
Burning Monkey Solitaire 4
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty
Call of Duty: United Offensive
Disney/Pixar Cars: Mater-National [NEW]
Disney/Pixar Cars: Radiator Springs
Disney/Pixar Cars: The Video Game
Championship Manager 01-02
Championship Manager 4
Chessmaster 9000
Civilization III: Complete
Civilization IV
Civilization IV: Warlords
Clive Barker’s Undying
Close Combat: First to Fight
Cold War
Colin McRae Rally Mac
Command & Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars
Command & Conquer Generals
Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour
Commander: Europe at War
Commandos Battle Pack
Cosmic Encounter Online
Cro-Mag Rally
Crusader Kings
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
Dark Horizons: Lore Invasion
Darwinia
Deimos Rising
DEFCON
Delta Force: Black Hawk Down
Diablo II*
Disney’s Toontown Online
Dominions II: The Ascension Wars
Dominions 3: The Awakening
Doom 3
Doulber Gold
Dragon’s Lair 3D
Drop Point Alaska
DropTeam
Dungeon Siege
Enemy Engaged
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Enigmo 2
Europa Universalis II
EVE Online
EverQuest
F/A-18: OIF
F1 Championship Edition
Fable: The Lost Chapters [NEW]
Fallout 2
The Feeble Files
Finding Nemo Games
Fly! II**
FlyBoys Squardron
Ford Racing 2
Freedom Force
Ghost Master
Ghost Recon: Game of the Year Edition
Giants: Citizen Kabuto**
GooBall
Gorky 17
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Halo: Combat Evolved
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Hearts of Iron
Hearts of Iron 2
Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday
Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday: Armageddon
Heroes of Might and Magic IV
Heroes of Might and Magic V
Homeworld 2
Hordes of Orcs
Icewind Dale**
The Incredibles
Imperial Glory
The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer
The Incredibles: When Danger Calls
Indiana Jones and the Emperor’s Tomb
Islands Mini-Golf
James Bond 007: Nightfire
The Journey to Wild Divine
Kelly Slater’s Pro Surfer
Kick Off 2002
Law & Order: Dead on the Money
Legion Arena
Legion Arena: Cult of Mithras
LEGO Star Wars
LEGO Star Wars II
Lineage
Links Championship Edition
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Madden NFL 08
Marble Blast Gold
Massive Assault
Master of Orion III
Max Payne
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault
Medal of Honor: Breakthrough
Medal of Honor: Spearhead
Mind Rover
Monster’s Inc. Games
The Movies
TheMovies: Stunts & Effects
MTX: Mototrax
Myst III: Exile*
Myst IV: Revelation
Myst V: End of Ages
Myth III: The Wolf Age
Nanosaur II: Hatchling
NASCAR 2003
Need For Speed: Carbon
Neon Tango
Neverwinter Nights
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide
Neverwinter Nights 2
NHL Eastside Hockey Manager 2007
No One Lives Forever 2
Oni*
Orbz
Otto Matic
Out of the Park Baseball 8
Pangea Arcade
Pirates of the Caribbean Online
Playhouse Disney Preschool Time Online
pop-pop
Penumbra: Black Plague [NEW]
Prey
Project Nomads
Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords [NEW]
Quake III: Gold
Quake 4
Railroad Tycoon 3
Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield
Ratatouille: The Video Game
Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc
realMYST
Red Faction*
Redline
Reel Deal Casino: High Roller
Reel Deal Slots: Mystic Forest
Republic: The Revolution
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
RHEM 2: The Cave
Riddle of the Sphinx II: The Omega Stone
Rise of Nations: Gold Edition
Robin Hood
RollerCoaster Tycoon 3
RollerCoaster Tycoon 3: Soaked!
Sacrifice
Savage: The Battle for Newerth
Second Life
Shadowbane
Shadowbane: The Rise of Chaos
Sheep*
Shrek 2
Sim Theme Park*
SimCity 4
SimCity 4: Rush Hour
The Sims Castaway Stories
The Sims Life Stories
The Sims Pet Stories
The Sims 2
The Sims 2: Bon Voyage
The Sims 2: Nightlife
The Sims 2: Open for Business
The Sims 2: Pets
The Sims 2: Seasons
The Sims 2: University
The Sims 2 Family Fun Stuff
The Sims 2 Glamour Life Stuff
The Sims 2 Happy Holiday Stuff
The Sims
The Sims: Hot Date
The Sims: House Party
The Sims: Livin’ Large
The Sims: Makin’ Magic
The Sims: Superstar
The Sims: Unleashed
The Sims: Vacation
SketchFighter 4000 Alpha
Slots from Bally Gaming
Solace
Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix
Space Colony
Spider-Man 2
The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie
SpyHunter
Star Trek: Elite Force II
Star Wars: Battlefront
Star Wars: Empire at War
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
StarCraft*
Starcraft: Brood War*
Stubbs the Zombie
Stronghold
Survivor
Sveerz Deluxe
ThinkTanks
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six 3: Athena Sword
Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Tomb Raider: Chronicles
Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness
Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 4
Total Immersion Racing
ToySight Gold
Tranquility
Tron 2.0
Tropico: Mucho Macho
Tropico 2: Pirate Cove
True Crime: Streets of LA
Unreal Tournament 2004
Vendetta Online
Victoria: An Empire Under the Sun
Victoria: Revolutions
Virtual Grand Prix 2
XIII
Wakeboarding Unleashed
WarBirds 2007
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Warrior Kings
WingNuts 2: Raina’s Revenge
Wipeout 2097**
World of Warcraft
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
World War II Online: Battleground Europe
Worms 3D
Worms Blast
X-Plane
X2: The Threat
X2: Wolverine’s Revenge
X3: Reunion
Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates
Zoo Tycoon
Zoo Tycoon 2

And ok Keyboard update broke your keyboard. Windows update forced me to reinstall the OS. I think you came out ahead.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

there's a good reason for this. The world's fastest windows laptop is currently running on mac hardware.

Anyway, for the record, its WorldBench 6 Beta 2 score of 88 bests Gateway's E-265M by one point

I hardly consider one point faster. If we were talking 10-100 ok, you can brag. But 1 point comeon. Oh and for the record, that isn't even close to the "world's fastest laptop". And why would they chose vista to test against? If you wanted a real test use 2K or XP.

I don't know where you're getting your mostly false information, but you're starting to sound like a mac-basher just for the sake of being one. Either that or you've been brainwashed.

Any information I say is not false, this is only from personal experiences and from word of mouth. I am not a mac basher, I only say what the truth is. I may sugar coat it, or deceive it, but I never tell a lie.

Pretty much any game that can use opengl has a mac version.

Linux has OpenGL. And you know that OpenGL is opensource right, so Mac is just leeching off a free opensource graphics library. Microsoft at least created their own called DirectX and it's a lot better than OpenGL. What I was referring to was that Apple never bothered to create their own set of APIs like DirectX. Does Mac even have their own set of APIs publicly available (no I'm serious I would like to know, because I don't )?

Btw, why isn't there a program like paint on the mac? Or notepad?

You have also backed up what I said, is that there are no good "free" applications for the Mac (usefull applications, let me add). Mac has a few games, but I haven't been to a store lately but I will bet there will be more Windows games/apps than Mac games/apps.

The most important point I ever have to make in my whole life is this, the majority of people that I have seen on or using a mac where on Windows (not Mac, Windows). That has to say something, right? And these had the Intel chips on them, so as far as I am concerned, they were on a PC running a PC OS. Why not just use a PC to begin with?

So I just went and compared their $2K macbook pro laptop with a dell d630 (business class laptop, only fair).
The Dell is still cheaper. And has a 3 year accidental damage warrenty (that covers ANYTHING. You can piss on your laptop and they will still replace it!). For macs you have to purchase "AppleCare Protection Plan" for 349$ and that DOES NOT cover accidental damage (see attached PDF, section b, subsection ii). Also, Dell pays for a professional to come to your house and replace the broken equipment.

I think its time to get Linux involved. Hey Linux come over here, we have a few questions for you....

[Icyculyr]

You can urinate on dell laptops and they replace it? lol that's funny...

This is quite interesting, I'm learning a lot

I like to play age of empires III the asian dynasties, and I'd like it to run better, although my graphics card is a nVidia 6600, and has a frame rate of 9-11, at tom's hardware, so it's obvious upgrading to anything will improve it

I also use CS3 (photoshop, in-design, illustrator), and Visual Studio..

I can't afford a mac pro, so I'd probably get an iMac, is an iMac greater than xp and vista? for that sort of stuff, which is the best OS for those things (Of Priority > Visual Studio > CS3 > Age of empires

Cheers
Icyculyr

[Cander]

Or notepad?

k1ll3rdr4g0n you just exposed yourself with that. The fact that you didn't take the time to know that there IS a 'notepad' on OS X exposes the rest of your comments as spin and false information. You expect anyone to believe you have done research into what free apps are good or not on OS X when you don't even know a gui text editor comes with OS X?

And how listing games that run on OS X proves your point of no good free apps is pure spin.

If you wanted a real test use 2K or XP.

Yeah lets not compare the latest Windows with the latest OS X. That is just silly.

Should I even mention the spin you attempted with the OpenGL comments? I think anyone with half a brain can see that for what it is. A sorry attempt at covering your rear after being proved wrong about gaming on a Mac. Should I mention two of the biggest hyped upcoming games will be Mac Native? Spore and Starcraft 2? What about companies like Blizzard, iD, Epic, and EA making games for the Mac? Those are just tiny no name companies right?

Mac has a few games, but I haven't been to a store lately but I will bet there will be more Windows games/apps than Mac games/apps.

Obviously if a game isn't on a shelf at Best Buy it isnt good right? And if there isn't an equal amount of games on Mac as Windows then Windows is just better for gaming. I see now. How could I be so blind while playing very fun games on my Mac?

Does Mac even have their own set of APIs publicly available

Shouldn't you know the answer to that? Since you said Windows is better for programming, obviously you have done research into Apple's APIs and development platforms. But if you REALLY want to know the answer to this, OS X DOES have a very powerful set of APIs from Core OS functionality all the way up to graphics, animation, and 3d.

In summary, I just don't buy your 'personnal experiences' with a Mac. Your comments point to 'word of mouth' is your major point of information that you call 'truth'.

For those actually interested in a Mac, go to an Apple store and try one out. Ask the employees question. Do some real usage before making a decision to buy one. Take as long as you need. They won't chase you out of the store. Heck if you got kids, take them to the 'kiddie corner' where they have some Macs with some kid games they can play. Don't listen to spin by people who are stuck in the 1990s mindset that Macs suck. Make your own informed opinion. If you don't like it, that is totally cool. The 'cult' will not hate you for it. The majority of us will not look down on you. You have at least given it a try and have not just listened to word of mouth. If you do decide to get one, now is the best time to buy an iMac as they were just upgraded this morning.

[Cander]

You can urinate on dell laptops and they replace it? lol that's funny...

This is quite interesting, I'm learning a lot

I like to play age of empires III the asian dynasties, and I'd like it to run better, although my graphics card is a nVidia 6600, and has a frame rate of 9-11, at tom's hardware, so it's obvious upgrading to anything will improve it

I also use CS3 (photoshop, in-design, illustrator), and Visual Studio..

I can't afford a mac pro, so I'd probably get an iMac, is an iMac greater than xp and vista? for that sort of stuff, which is the best OS for those things (Of Priority > Visual Studio > CS3 > Age of empires

Cheers
Icyculyr

Well of course you would need Parallels or boot Camp install for Visual Studio, but pretty much those apps will run under whatever native OS on the iMac the same speed as anything else. A Mac isn't magically faster than a PC. Although strangely my iMac is .4 ghz slower with everything else pretty much the same as my PC and Flight Sim X runs better. But that could be an anomoly of any number of hardware being better in some way than what I had in my PC.

As I have said before, the major advantage of a Mac is the lifestyle software. Forget speed and hardware costs comparisons. Look at the entire package. Software AND hardware.

[CyberSurfer]

Also on the development note, every single developer where I work (people who are developing *very* non-trivial software) are developing on Macs. If you suggested they do otherwise they'd laugh at you.

[Lord Orwell]

Yeah i was kind of thrown off by the "doesnt come with notepad" statement as well. All you have to do is open up a text document to see it does. It also comes with a trial version of microsoft office and the mac equivalent office (i forget the name right now).

[Cander]

Forgot to add that it is a total joke that you are trying to use a single 3rd party SVN client as an argument against the Mac, when there is a very easy one to use integrated with XCode. Once again showing your lack of any actual knowledge of OS X software options.

Of course I am just a silly Mac fanboi. What do I know?

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'd have to say that I AM a mac basher. People here are discussing the finer points of speed at a bleeding edge that I can't afford (or at least choose not to). However, back around OS6, Apple pissed me off completely with their advertising, as well as reading their trade journals. To date, nothing has changed. Therefore, I wouldn't buy an Apple unless I could overcome the enmity they have created in me with their advertising strategies. Studies have continually demonstrated that the average Apple user can be described with A words, as well (arrogant being one of them, and the other is an AUP violation).

Perhaps they can compete on technical merits, but only marginally. You still can't build your own Apple from ground up, the price/performance doesn't seem quite as good, but entirely aside from either of those questions, there are probably a fair number of people out there who just can't get over the negative image they have of Apple based on their deceptive advertising of the last decade.

Oddly, I heard the other day that Apple is experiencing something of a backlash against the current Mac vs PC adds, because people find the PC character to be a more appealing personality. That's pretty much how I feel.

At some point, for those of us who will NEVER be buying the top of the line for the simple fact that it isn't a sound fiscal choice, there may be more that goes into deciding what to buy other than hardware specs, and brand awareness does play a part. I would buy a technically inferior system to avoid the Apple brand, and I'm not alone. That has to say something.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

Forgot to add that it is a total joke that you are trying to use a single 3rd party SVN client as an argument against the Mac, when there is a very easy one to use integrated with XCode. Once again showing your lack of any actual knowledge of OS X software options.

Of course I am just a silly Mac fanboi. What do I know?

Oh, sorry I forgot to add that I was coding with PHP. A langauge not supported by XCode according to Wikipedia.
If you know of something besides RapidSVN for SVN management, I'm all ears.
And that is free. I have used SvnX, RpaidSVN, and SCPPlugin. SCPPlugin does not seem to support authentication when submitting. SvnX...I can't remember what problems I had with that. And RapidSVN seems to be pretty stable, but its still not as seamlessly integrated like the Windows client is.

And why would that be a total joke anyways? TortoiseSVN works beautifully under Windows as a 3rd party client.

[TheBigB]

Oh, sorry I forgot to add that I was coding with PHP. A langauge not supported by XCode according to Wikipedia.

PHP is not an application developing language.
And you shouldn't believe everything said on Wiki

[Icyculyr]

Hmm, humans either fear, or get excited about what they don't know, and I've not used an apple much, so I assume mine is the latter...

I can't imagine being afraid of an apple...

Anyway, I think I will get a PC then, it's more suited (so I think) to what I need, and I know them like the back of my hand (pretty much), rather than an apple, with which I know as much as an ant.

So I guess the trick with windows is getting good parts, and not downloading anything that slows it down..

Although I do have a question, I've heard that windows computers, over time slow down significantly, and apples do not?

Is this true?

Cheers
Icyculyr

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

Hmm, humans either fear, or get excited about what they don't know, and I've not used an apple much, so I assume mine is the latter...

I can't imagine being afraid of an apple...

Anyway, I think I will get a PC then, it's more suited (so I think) to what I need, and I know them like the back of my hand (pretty much), rather than an apple, with which I know as much as an ant.

So I guess the trick with windows is getting good parts, and not downloading anything that slows it down..

Although I do have a question, I've heard that windows computers, over time slow down significantly, and apples do not?

Is this true?

Cheers
Icyculyr

It all depends on the software you install. If you install all sorts of random programs and drivers then yeah Windows is going to slow down. Otherwise, if you know what you install (such as IDEs, compilers, development tools) then your ok. I wouldn't install toolbars, cleanup startup to make sure nothing bad funny is starting up, keep an eye on running processes, anti-spyware utilities are never a bad thing either. Cleaning every once and while might help. Would you like an anti-virus with those fries? With a side of firewall perhaps? A few good tools to have in your toolkit, one for unlocking files and one for tweaking your IE settings/BHOs.
I'll let our Apple friends answer the second part of your question. I think I have shoken up the beehive enough, for awhile

[Lord Orwell]

Perhaps they can compete on technical merits, but only marginally. You still can't build your own Apple from ground up, the price/performance doesn't seem quite as good, but entirely aside from either of those questions, there are probably a fair number of people out there who just can't get over the negative image they have of Apple based on their deceptive advertising of the last decade.

And who HAS had pleasant experiences with a hardware manufacturer? Apple does more than make the OS. They make the hardware. I could tell you story after story about HP.
Their hardware may be overpriced on a simply functional standpoint, but there's a lot to be said for aesthetics.
In any case, you in fact CAN build your own mac from the ground up (as long as you use intel) although it's against Apple's user agreement to install OS10 on hardware other than apple's. I've managed to get os10 to boot on an amd system (but not fully function) but lots of people run it on intel. look up "hackintosh".

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

And who HAS had pleasant experiences with a hardware manufacturer? Apple does more than make the OS. They make the hardware. I could tell you story after story about HP.
Their hardware may be overpriced on a simply functional standpoint, but there's a lot to be said for aesthetics.
In any case, you in fact CAN build your own mac from the ground up (as long as you use intel) although it's against Apple's user agreement to install OS10 on hardware other than apple's. I've managed to get os10 to boot on an amd system (but not fully function) but lots of people run it on intel. look up "hackintosh".

I have had no bad experiences with Dell. In fact, afaik, their backlights in their laptops last the longest. And their laptops can take a beating. In fact their live chat support on their site was very helpful when I wanted to get my laptop's casing fixed. No hassle whatsoever.

I have to disagree, Apple does not make the Hard drives or RAM. Hell they don't even make their own processors anymore . Though, I would bet 10 cents that they make their own mobos. Here is a picture of a "mac hard drive". Kinda funny that the only difference between that HD and one you buy from your local dealer is that the one you buy from your local dealer is cheaper and doesn't have the mac logo on it.

Oh and you notice that whole user agreement thing for Mac OS. Funny how Microsoft doesn't have that for Windows.

Now I'm done.

[Lord Orwell]

they never did make their own processors. The other ones where 680x0 series motorolas. The same processors found in amiga computers.

Microsoft does have a user agreement for windows. In fact they have a user agreement for every single patch you download. Surely you remember clicking "ok" about 200 times in the last month? And even so, the part of the mac user agreement i was referring to is not applicable to microsoft since they don't make their own hardware. Not only that but they were actually sued for trying to do something similar with 3rd-party manufacturers (anti-trust).

They may assemble most of their parts from the parts bin, but the mobo and various other technologies are not only built in-house, but were actually invented there. firewire, anyone? I wasn't aware they didn't make their own ram though. I was under the impression they did. Surely they test it? But anyway, i will be the first to agree some of their hardware perhiferals (especially ram) is way overpriced, but 3rd party upgrades work just as well thanks to the fact they use all the same technologies now a standard ibm-clone does (with some differences such as no ps2 ports).

A basic system such as my mac mini starts at $599.
I personally like my wife's mac mini because it's quite possibly the smallest system of it's type available. It's barely bigger than a standard cd-rom drive yet manages to fit in an entire computer system plus bluetooth, wifi, dvd burner, and infrared remote control with interface similar to the itunes control.

Finally if you know windows inside and out, and know little about an apple system, don't fret. Macs are notoriously easy to learn to use for the general user, while allowing advanced users down the road extreme power (unix commands, folder scripts, etc.)

[Lerroy_Jenkins]

Well I got bored about half way down.

But how about this, there is no right click for a MAC!

And how about this funny video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqN76gYKHMs

[Lord Orwell]

os 10 has right-click. 2+ button mice have been fully supported for a while now.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

os 10 has right-click. 2+ button mice have been fully supported for a while now.

My Powerbook laptop only has one button. So does my friend's Macbook Pro.
Instead I of just "right clicking" I have to finger click, or ctrl+click.

Can someone explain me the importance of a single button mouse? Seeing as Mac is all about shortcuts, it would make more sense to me to put more buttons on the mouse.

Shouldn't you know the answer to that? Since you said Windows is better for programming, obviously you have done research into Apple's APIs and development platforms. But if you REALLY want to know the answer to this, OS X DOES have a very powerful set of APIs from Core OS functionality all the way up to graphics, animation, and 3d.

I am only going to pick this as it's borderline offensive.

Lets take a look at Mac developers. If you ask them what the Windows API contains or what it is, they will simply shrug and go back to work. On another note, if you ask any web designer what C++ is, they will look at you with a funny look. On a similar note, are you going to ask your plumber how to fix your car? I hope not.

That is like saying, should the Windows programmer know how to program on the Mac platform. And Should the Mac programmers know how to program on the Windows platform. This is not usually the case. Usually people stick with one area and stick with it, with some background knowledge in the other fields.

And I like how you twisted my words. I said Windows is better for programming [as an environment], we have Visual Studio (which has wonderful VB6 and VB.Net), Bloodshed Dev C++, Codeblocks. We have all sorts of debuggers built into the IDEs (which are great I might add). The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that Mac has is XCode and Eclipse (which is cross platform anyways).

This thread is getting very interesting...I wonder if any of the mods are watching it .

At least we haven't gotten to level where we are saying that each other smells or something.

[Shaggy Hiker]

And who HAS had pleasant experiences with a hardware manufacturer? Apple does more than make the OS. They make the hardware. I could tell you story after story about HP.

I may be easy to please, but I have generally been quite happy with most of the hardware companies I have dealt with over the years. On the other hand, I have always stayed away from HP and Gateway, so I am not making choices at random (though it sometimes feels that way).

Their hardware may be overpriced on a simply functional standpoint, but there's a lot to be said for aesthetics.

Yes, in the case of Apple, you can also say: YUCK!! I have yet to see anything out of that company that was good looking. A guy who was working for me had pretty much every toy they put out. For most of it you could just say "White is the new beige." Then he bought a really good desktop system, and it looked totally pretentious. Not to say that you couldn't do just as badly in the PC market, as there are plenty of goofy cases out there. I guess when it comes to taste, there are lots of varieties.

In any case, you in fact CAN build your own mac from the ground up (as long as you use intel) although it's against Apple's user agreement to install OS10 on hardware other than apple's. I've managed to get os10 to boot on an amd system (but not fully function) but lots of people run it on intel. look up "hackintosh".

I didn't know that.

[Icyculyr]

Hey, guys can I have an opinion?

I am currently have a computer with a Intel-Dual Core 3.0GHz Processor, 2GB DR2 RAM (I think), and a nVidia 6600 graphics card (really old), and I currently have some Altec Lansing speakers..

If I were to upgrade what would be better? my computer's probably 2-3 years old now, I'm wondering what I could upgrade to for a relatively nice price, that's got a decent graphics card (256-512MB), and a good processor, I'm wondering what's a good speed to get? 3.2GHz? or 3.4GHz or 3.0 etc..?

and anything else about a processor that is good to know when buying a computer.

I would appreciate any opinions on if that would be a good computer to buy...

and 2 - 3 GB DDR3 ram..

I also was wondering is GDDR3 RAM the same as DDR3 RAM?

Cheers
Icyculyr

[Lord Orwell]

never heard of gddr3 ram. But if you want a motherboard that supports it (and it's generally not necessary for ddr3 to be on the motherboard since ddr2 goes up to 1066mhz) you had better expect to pay a LOT of money for it. Your processor is fast enough. Upgrade your video card and slap another gb of ram in there if you're running xp32 or 2-4 gb more if you're running 64-bit.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

never heard of gddr3 ram. But if you want a motherboard that supports it (and it's generally not necessary for ddr3 to be on the motherboard since ddr2 goes up to 1066mhz) you had better expect to pay a LOT of money for it. Your processor is fast enough. Upgrade your video card and slap another gb of ram in there if you're running xp32 or 2-4 gb more if you're running 64-bit.

Why does he have to add more ram if hes running 64 bit edition?
I have 1 GB of RAM and it runs just fine for me. Granted some drivers/applications wont install, but that's not because I don't have enough RAM. It's because of that whole 64bit thing.

[Lerroy_Jenkins]

Why are you discussing this inside of a Different thread?

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

Why are you discussing this inside of a Different thread?

I think you mean instead.

I believe the 2 to be related because hes asking about mac performace and now hes asking about his PCs performance.

[Lerroy_Jenkins]

No, I meant what I said. Why are they discussing this "Topic" inside of a different thread. Implying that the topic he had brought up was inside a different thread that it should of been in. Sorry not very clear.

[Cander]

My Powerbook laptop only has one button. So does my friend's Macbook Pro.
Instead I of just "right clicking" I have to finger click, or ctrl+click.

Can someone explain me the importance of a single button mouse? Seeing as Mac is all about shortcuts, it would make more sense to me to put more buttons on the mouse.


I am only going to pick this as it's borderline offensive.

Lets take a look at Mac developers. If you ask them what the Windows API contains or what it is, they will simply shrug and go back to work. On another note, if you ask any web designer what C++ is, they will look at you with a funny look. On a similar note, are you going to ask your plumber how to fix your car? I hope not.

That is like saying, should the Windows programmer know how to program on the Mac platform. And Should the Mac programmers know how to program on the Windows platform. This is not usually the case. Usually people stick with one area and stick with it, with some background knowledge in the other fields.

And I like how you twisted my words. I said Windows is better for programming [as an environment], we have Visual Studio (which has wonderful VB6 and VB.Net), Bloodshed Dev C++, Codeblocks. We have all sorts of debuggers built into the IDEs (which are great I might add). The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that Mac has is XCode and Eclipse (which is cross platform anyways).

This thread is getting very interesting...I wonder if any of the mods are watching it .

At least we haven't gotten to level where we are saying that each other smells or something.

I have to apologize for my responses that day. I way really PO'd with something at work and I can't yell at them. But to address this:

First off I didn't twist your words. When you say X is better than Y for Z, you have to take all angles into considerations. Once aspect of a multi aspect scenario does not make for a proper comparison.

And again you are riding this wave of misinformation about lack of software for OS X. False.

Some IDEs for OS X:
Komodo
Eclipse
XCode
Real Basic
Code Warrior
Code::Blocks

And that is just the ones off my head. If I went looking, I could find plenty more.

And going back to other software. http://www.apple.com/downloads. TONS of software links there from Freeware to Demos of pay software. Text editors, art software, budget software, office software, productivity software, and everything else you can think of.

[Lord Orwell]

it's not 100% related to the original topic, but i suggested adding RAM no matter which OS he was using. The difference is that 32-bit versions of windows can only address up to 3.2 gig of it and adding extra past that is a waste of money. It's a physical limitation, not a software one. If you've got 4 or even 8 gb of ram, your swap file is almost never going to be used and you will notice a huge system speed increase.

It's true he should have started a new thread though. Would definitely have gotten more anwers.

[Icyculyr]

Hehe, once again off topic (sorry), so, if I get 3GB RAM, for my computer, then my page file won't be used at all (pretty much), so that would be a huge speed increase as you said?

Cheers
Icyculyr