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Thread: Going Mac, are they better?

  1. #1
    Frenzied Member Icyculyr's Avatar
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    Going Mac, are they better?

    I've had enough of windows, bugs, problems, everywhere...

    I've used a few mac applications, no problems...

    So I figure if I run Parallel so I can program in VB, and just buy CS3, Office 2008 etc.. for Mac, 3DS max etc, it would be better?

    I also find it much easier to pick an apple rather than a window,

    But, is Mac better, worse, or the same, as windows, in terms of performance, and how applications are built etc...

    Cheers
    Icyculyr

  2. #2
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    os10 runs faster than vista or even xp thought about running and has lower system requirements. You can run parallels desktop with no issues and in fact even run directx games inside the emulator. Parallels has a concurrence mode that lets you overlay the windows programs on the mac desktop (or vice versa). Running a mac theme can make them indistinguishable. The only downfall to this is the increased load time because you have to load xp after loading osx.

    As for using the OS itself:
    Having used nearly every OS ever made, (including geos, os2, windows 1.0, 3.0, 3.1 3.1 for workgroups with 32-bit extensions, 95 1 & 2, 98 1 & 2, 2k, me, xp 32 & 64, server 2003, redhat 8 & 9, ubuntu 7, mac os 7, 8, and 10.4, and a couple of others i forgot), i have to say it's quite possibly the easiest to learn to use, while simultaneously containing all the power of a unix core.

    Highlights:
    Programs are extremely easy to install/uninstall (drag-drop to the applications folder)
    Security is advanced but not intrusive (a padlock icon on important settings that requires admin password to unlock)
    Graphical effects aren't overdone yet give you useful feedback
    expose' is the best way i've seen to find an open window.
    Supports multiple desktops (10.5 and above)
    There are other things of course, and of course windows has some highlights as well, but my personal favourite is the common toolbar at the top of the window. It saves a lot of screen real-estate. Also every window has a "hide all toolbars on this window" button, giving it a minimalist view that also saves real-estate.

    Also i am sure it will start a flame war, but Mac's firmware is much better. It's bios equivalent actually has a graphical interface and is mouse enabled. There are gobs of boot-time keyboard shortcuts such as holding down the option button to get a boot menu.
    If money's not an issue, go with a nice full-size upgradeable system that supports pci express. I'm currenly posting this from my wife's mac-mini and the only thing i personally don't like about it is that besides memory, it's not upgradeable. It's fast enough to do what she wants it for, but i wouldn't want to use 3dstudio max on it.
    Last edited by Lord Orwell; Apr 16th, 2008 at 07:09 PM.
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  3. #3
    Frenzied Member Icyculyr's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Hehe, thanks a lot...

    I appreciate the info.

    Cheers
    Icyculyr

  4. #4
    Banished Cander's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    And don't forget all the other things that make a Mac awesome. Like iLife and how all those apps work seemlessly together. Easily create your own music with GarageBand, get it into iMovie to edit your own movies, and right into iDVD to burn it to a DVD.

    And the small things like Spotlight, Smart Folders, and Automater that have power and flexability but are easy as dirt to use that you will at first not be sure what use they are, but as you play with them, you will learn to love them.

    And Boot Camp to setup XP to dual boot was the easiest Windows install ever. All the needed drivers came ready with the OS X discs
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    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    i have to mention something here:
    A lot of the apps that you just mentioned are trial versions in the install and you have to shell out a little extra to register them. I don't know about I-Life but i know for a fact Garage Band is, and i think Imovie is also., and I-Movie is a major pain because of the limitation of the video formats it supports.

    Automater: Still trying to learn that...

    Finally, i love the automatic updates feature, but why on earth doesn't it support file resuming? Yeah you can pause and restart, but if you lose internet connetion for some reason(say, you're on a dial-up) you have to start over! I finally gave up on the last service pack (90meg) until i got hi-speed. I must have wasted 30 hours. Made it all the way to 99% once.
    HOWEVER on a good-note:
    Application auto-updates (such as garage band) are integrated into the update system as well
    Other great features: It comes with drivers for every cell phone if you have a data cable, it has a cleaner taskbar, most come with built-in bluetooth AND 802.11g/b. The open-firmware bios is so advanced, you can configure it to connect to bluetooth keyboards and mice from the bios. Plus if you're a fast web-surfer, benchmarks will show Safari is almost the fastest browser for any given situation. If that's not your kettle of fish however, there's versions of all your favourite programs available to run on os10:
    Firefox and Thunderbird run flawlessly
    VLC media player has an improved and more intuitive system settings setup
    Real Player has a much better flv download which links so seamlessly into the browser that it captures the stream directly instead of downloading the file a 2nd time.
    Parallels desktop integrates into the shell giving you much better synchronization between the host os and the client os, such as windows, but also linux, etc.
    much more can be said, but that will do for now...
    Last edited by Lord Orwell; Apr 17th, 2008 at 01:46 PM.
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  6. #6
    Frenzied Member Icyculyr's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    That's awesome, is safari (on Mac) password protected, so you can't access it without an administrator password or anything?

    Cheers
    Icyculyr

  7. #7
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    only OS settings that are critical are set with passwords, the admin password. You can do OS10 exactly like xp and assign any restriction you want to a user account. For example lock out the internet.
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  8. #8
    Frenzied Member Icyculyr's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    I see, that's cool

    Cheers
    Icyculyr

  9. #9
    Banished Cander's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    That is incorrect Lord Orwell. Every Mac comes with the complete iLife. Inlcluding GarageBand. You do however need to download the entire loop and sound pack for GarageBand but that is free.

    You may be confusing it with iWork in which only the trial comes with a Mac.

    And Automator is totally teh awesome.

    Last night I had needed to pull down 300+ gif images from a web site, save them to a folder, turn them into pngs and chroma key the color back into transparency. It took me all of 1 minutes to build the Automator actions to do it for me automatically.
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  10. #10
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    well it's my wife's computer anyway lol
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  11. #11
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
    os10 runs faster than vista or even xp thought about running and has lower system requirements.
    I'll give you vista, but I would like to challenge you for mac faster than XP.

    Though I think I better jump in and throw my 2 cents around.
    From my experiences, everything you can do on a Mac you can do on a PC, even better. From a developers point of view, whenever I use a mac I always take one step forward, and 2 steps back. Almost every (free) piece of software I have used has been very buggy. Lets take sshfs, for some odd reason that doesn't like the newest version of ubuntu. Fugu doesn't work right with older Linux distros. My default unziping application is broken. I had even installed a "keyboard update" one time and my laptop keyboard stopped working. Don't even get me started with SVN on a mac.

    Now, if your comfertable with just doing anything NOT related to gaming or the like. Such as office applications, photoshop, ect then go for Mac. If you going to any sort of programming, and/or gaming, PC (Windows) is the way to go. I just don't understand why people buy a mac, then install boot camp, and only run windows on it. Makes absolutely no sense to me. (This is what my school did, buy iMacs to replace the labs so the students would have a "choice". Well, guess what? I only saw the mac side used once or twice.)

    At the end of the day whatever gets your job done better, faster, and more efficiently is the way to go.
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  12. #12
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    there's a good reason for this. The world's fastest windows laptop is currently running on mac hardware. The systems are just faster. My wife's mini benchmarks faster than my athalon 64 system with high-end video card.

    Not sure what unzipping app you use, but i use 7-zip on both windows and mac. I use videolan and realplayer as media players on both windows and mac. I use firefox and thunderbird on both windows and mac.

    World of Warcraft runs natively on osx, but i also have the option of running it in parallels desktop. I can't run some of the newer games on Mac, but i can play a lot of them, such as unreal tournament. Pretty much any game that can use opengl has a mac version. Example: Quake wars.

    I don't know where you're getting your mostly false information, but you're starting to sound like a mac-basher just for the sake of being one. Either that or you've been brainwashed. The mac's outlook is bright thanks to vista. More and more people have switched to mac because of it. And because of the surge in popularity, major games manufacturers have begun to port their hottest titles. Here's a link to the EA games page.
    Here's a sample list of games available for mac. Most run on os9 or 10.
    3D Hearts/Spades Deluxe
    4x4 EVO 2
    A Tale in the Desert III
    Active Lancer
    Activision Anthology
    Age of Empires II: Gold
    Age of Empires III
    Age of Empires III: The WarChiefs
    Age of Mythology
    AGON
    AirBurst Extreme
    Airline Tycoon Deluxe
    Alias Underground
    Aliens vs. Predator 2
    American McGee’s Alice
    America’s Army
    Ankh
    Another War
    Armado
    Atari Arcade Classics
    Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn
    Baldur’s Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
    Battlefield 1942 Deluxe Edition
    Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of WWII
    Battlefield 2142
    Bejeweled & Alchemy
    Big Bang Board Games
    Big Bang Brain Games
    Billy Frontier
    Bionicle
    Birdie Shoot
    Black & White
    Black & White: Creature Isle
    BloodRayne
    Board Game Trio
    Bugdom 2
    Burning Monkey Casino
    Burning Monkey Mahjong Solitaire 2
    Burning Monkey Solitaire 4
    Call of Duty 2
    Call of Duty
    Call of Duty: United Offensive
    Disney/Pixar Cars: Mater-National [NEW]
    Disney/Pixar Cars: Radiator Springs
    Disney/Pixar Cars: The Video Game
    Championship Manager 01-02
    Championship Manager 4
    Chessmaster 9000
    Civilization III: Complete
    Civilization IV
    Civilization IV: Warlords
    Clive Barker’s Undying
    Close Combat: First to Fight
    Cold War
    Colin McRae Rally Mac
    Command & Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars
    Command & Conquer Generals
    Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour
    Commander: Europe at War
    Commandos Battle Pack
    Cosmic Encounter Online
    Cro-Mag Rally
    Crusader Kings
    CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
    Dark Horizons: Lore Invasion
    Darwinia
    Deimos Rising
    DEFCON
    Delta Force: Black Hawk Down
    Diablo II*
    Disney’s Toontown Online
    Dominions II: The Ascension Wars
    Dominions 3: The Awakening
    Doom 3
    Doulber Gold
    Dragon’s Lair 3D
    Drop Point Alaska
    DropTeam
    Dungeon Siege
    Enemy Engaged
    Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
    Enigmo 2
    Europa Universalis II
    EVE Online
    EverQuest
    F/A-18: OIF
    F1 Championship Edition
    Fable: The Lost Chapters [NEW]
    Fallout 2
    The Feeble Files
    Finding Nemo Games
    Fly! II**
    FlyBoys Squardron
    Ford Racing 2
    Freedom Force
    Ghost Master
    Ghost Recon: Game of the Year Edition
    Giants: Citizen Kabuto**
    GooBall
    Gorky 17
    Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
    Halo: Combat Evolved
    Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone
    Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
    Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
    Hearts of Iron
    Hearts of Iron 2
    Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday
    Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday: Armageddon
    Heroes of Might and Magic IV
    Heroes of Might and Magic V
    Homeworld 2
    Hordes of Orcs
    Icewind Dale**
    The Incredibles
    Imperial Glory
    The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer
    The Incredibles: When Danger Calls
    Indiana Jones and the Emperor’s Tomb
    Islands Mini-Golf
    James Bond 007: Nightfire
    The Journey to Wild Divine
    Kelly Slater’s Pro Surfer
    Kick Off 2002
    Law & Order: Dead on the Money
    Legion Arena
    Legion Arena: Cult of Mithras
    LEGO Star Wars
    LEGO Star Wars II
    Lineage
    Links Championship Edition
    The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
    Madden NFL 08
    Marble Blast Gold
    Massive Assault
    Master of Orion III
    Max Payne
    Medal of Honor: Allied Assault
    Medal of Honor: Breakthrough
    Medal of Honor: Spearhead
    Mind Rover
    Monster’s Inc. Games
    The Movies
    TheMovies: Stunts & Effects
    MTX: Mototrax
    Myst III: Exile*
    Myst IV: Revelation
    Myst V: End of Ages
    Myth III: The Wolf Age
    Nanosaur II: Hatchling
    NASCAR 2003
    Need For Speed: Carbon
    Neon Tango
    Neverwinter Nights
    Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
    Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide
    Neverwinter Nights 2
    NHL Eastside Hockey Manager 2007
    No One Lives Forever 2
    Oni*
    Orbz
    Otto Matic
    Out of the Park Baseball 8
    Pangea Arcade
    Pirates of the Caribbean Online
    Playhouse Disney Preschool Time Online
    pop-pop
    Penumbra: Black Plague [NEW]
    Prey
    Project Nomads
    Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords [NEW]
    Quake III: Gold
    Quake 4
    Railroad Tycoon 3
    Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield
    Ratatouille: The Video Game
    Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc
    realMYST
    Red Faction*
    Redline
    Reel Deal Casino: High Roller
    Reel Deal Slots: Mystic Forest
    Republic: The Revolution
    Return to Castle Wolfenstein
    RHEM 2: The Cave
    Riddle of the Sphinx II: The Omega Stone
    Rise of Nations: Gold Edition
    Robin Hood
    RollerCoaster Tycoon 3
    RollerCoaster Tycoon 3: Soaked!
    Sacrifice
    Savage: The Battle for Newerth
    Second Life
    Shadowbane
    Shadowbane: The Rise of Chaos
    Sheep*
    Shrek 2
    Sim Theme Park*
    SimCity 4
    SimCity 4: Rush Hour
    The Sims Castaway Stories
    The Sims Life Stories
    The Sims Pet Stories
    The Sims 2
    The Sims 2: Bon Voyage
    The Sims 2: Nightlife
    The Sims 2: Open for Business
    The Sims 2: Pets
    The Sims 2: Seasons
    The Sims 2: University
    The Sims 2 Family Fun Stuff
    The Sims 2 Glamour Life Stuff
    The Sims 2 Happy Holiday Stuff
    The Sims
    The Sims: Hot Date
    The Sims: House Party
    The Sims: Livin’ Large
    The Sims: Makin’ Magic
    The Sims: Superstar
    The Sims: Unleashed
    The Sims: Vacation
    SketchFighter 4000 Alpha
    Slots from Bally Gaming
    Solace
    Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix
    Space Colony
    Spider-Man 2
    The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie
    SpyHunter
    Star Trek: Elite Force II
    Star Wars: Battlefront
    Star Wars: Empire at War
    Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds
    Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns
    Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
    Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
    Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
    StarCraft*
    Starcraft: Brood War*
    Stubbs the Zombie
    Stronghold
    Survivor
    Sveerz Deluxe
    ThinkTanks
    Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
    Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005
    Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
    Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six 3: Athena Sword
    Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell
    Tomb Raider Anniversary
    Tomb Raider: Chronicles
    Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness
    Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 4
    Total Immersion Racing
    ToySight Gold
    Tranquility
    Tron 2.0
    Tropico: Mucho Macho
    Tropico 2: Pirate Cove
    True Crime: Streets of LA
    Unreal Tournament 2004
    Vendetta Online
    Victoria: An Empire Under the Sun
    Victoria: Revolutions
    Virtual Grand Prix 2
    XIII
    Wakeboarding Unleashed
    WarBirds 2007
    Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos
    Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
    Warrior Kings
    WingNuts 2: Raina’s Revenge
    Wipeout 2097**
    World of Warcraft
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    World War II Online: Battleground Europe
    Worms 3D
    Worms Blast
    X-Plane
    X2: The Threat
    X2: Wolverine’s Revenge
    X3: Reunion
    Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates
    Zoo Tycoon
    Zoo Tycoon 2
    And ok Keyboard update broke your keyboard. Windows update forced me to reinstall the OS. I think you came out ahead.
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  13. #13
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    there's a good reason for this. The world's fastest windows laptop is currently running on mac hardware.
    Anyway, for the record, its WorldBench 6 Beta 2 score of 88 bests Gateway's E-265M by one point
    I hardly consider one point faster. If we were talking 10-100 ok, you can brag. But 1 point comeon. Oh and for the record, that isn't even close to the "world's fastest laptop". And why would they chose vista to test against? If you wanted a real test use 2K or XP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
    I don't know where you're getting your mostly false information, but you're starting to sound like a mac-basher just for the sake of being one. Either that or you've been brainwashed.
    Any information I say is not false, this is only from personal experiences and from word of mouth. I am not a mac basher, I only say what the truth is. I may sugar coat it, or deceive it, but I never tell a lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
    Pretty much any game that can use opengl has a mac version.
    Linux has OpenGL. And you know that OpenGL is opensource right, so Mac is just leeching off a free opensource graphics library. Microsoft at least created their own called DirectX and it's a lot better than OpenGL. What I was referring to was that Apple never bothered to create their own set of APIs like DirectX. Does Mac even have their own set of APIs publicly available (no I'm serious I would like to know, because I don't )?

    Btw, why isn't there a program like paint on the mac? Or notepad?

    You have also backed up what I said, is that there are no good "free" applications for the Mac (usefull applications, let me add). Mac has a few games, but I haven't been to a store lately but I will bet there will be more Windows games/apps than Mac games/apps.

    The most important point I ever have to make in my whole life is this, the majority of people that I have seen on or using a mac where on Windows (not Mac, Windows). That has to say something, right? And these had the Intel chips on them, so as far as I am concerned, they were on a PC running a PC OS. Why not just use a PC to begin with?

    So I just went and compared their $2K macbook pro laptop with a dell d630 (business class laptop, only fair).
    The Dell is still cheaper. And has a 3 year accidental damage warrenty (that covers ANYTHING. You can piss on your laptop and they will still replace it!). For macs you have to purchase "AppleCare Protection Plan" for 349$ and that DOES NOT cover accidental damage (see attached PDF, section b, subsection ii). Also, Dell pays for a professional to come to your house and replace the broken equipment.

    I think its time to get Linux involved. Hey Linux come over here, we have a few questions for you....
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  14. #14
    Frenzied Member Icyculyr's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    You can urinate on dell laptops and they replace it? lol that's funny...

    This is quite interesting, I'm learning a lot

    I like to play age of empires III the asian dynasties, and I'd like it to run better, although my graphics card is a nVidia 6600, and has a frame rate of 9-11, at tom's hardware, so it's obvious upgrading to anything will improve it

    I also use CS3 (photoshop, in-design, illustrator), and Visual Studio..

    I can't afford a mac pro, so I'd probably get an iMac, is an iMac greater than xp and vista? for that sort of stuff, which is the best OS for those things (Of Priority > Visual Studio > CS3 > Age of empires

    Cheers
    Icyculyr

  15. #15
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Or notepad?
    k1ll3rdr4g0n you just exposed yourself with that. The fact that you didn't take the time to know that there IS a 'notepad' on OS X exposes the rest of your comments as spin and false information. You expect anyone to believe you have done research into what free apps are good or not on OS X when you don't even know a gui text editor comes with OS X?

    And how listing games that run on OS X proves your point of no good free apps is pure spin.

    If you wanted a real test use 2K or XP.
    Yeah lets not compare the latest Windows with the latest OS X. That is just silly.

    Should I even mention the spin you attempted with the OpenGL comments? I think anyone with half a brain can see that for what it is. A sorry attempt at covering your rear after being proved wrong about gaming on a Mac. Should I mention two of the biggest hyped upcoming games will be Mac Native? Spore and Starcraft 2? What about companies like Blizzard, iD, Epic, and EA making games for the Mac? Those are just tiny no name companies right?

    Mac has a few games, but I haven't been to a store lately but I will bet there will be more Windows games/apps than Mac games/apps.
    Obviously if a game isn't on a shelf at Best Buy it isnt good right? And if there isn't an equal amount of games on Mac as Windows then Windows is just better for gaming. I see now. How could I be so blind while playing very fun games on my Mac?

    Does Mac even have their own set of APIs publicly available
    Shouldn't you know the answer to that? Since you said Windows is better for programming, obviously you have done research into Apple's APIs and development platforms. But if you REALLY want to know the answer to this, OS X DOES have a very powerful set of APIs from Core OS functionality all the way up to graphics, animation, and 3d.

    In summary, I just don't buy your 'personnal experiences' with a Mac. Your comments point to 'word of mouth' is your major point of information that you call 'truth'.

    For those actually interested in a Mac, go to an Apple store and try one out. Ask the employees question. Do some real usage before making a decision to buy one. Take as long as you need. They won't chase you out of the store. Heck if you got kids, take them to the 'kiddie corner' where they have some Macs with some kid games they can play. Don't listen to spin by people who are stuck in the 1990s mindset that Macs suck. Make your own informed opinion. If you don't like it, that is totally cool. The 'cult' will not hate you for it. The majority of us will not look down on you. You have at least given it a try and have not just listened to word of mouth. If you do decide to get one, now is the best time to buy an iMac as they were just upgraded this morning.
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Icyculyr
    You can urinate on dell laptops and they replace it? lol that's funny...

    This is quite interesting, I'm learning a lot

    I like to play age of empires III the asian dynasties, and I'd like it to run better, although my graphics card is a nVidia 6600, and has a frame rate of 9-11, at tom's hardware, so it's obvious upgrading to anything will improve it

    I also use CS3 (photoshop, in-design, illustrator), and Visual Studio..

    I can't afford a mac pro, so I'd probably get an iMac, is an iMac greater than xp and vista? for that sort of stuff, which is the best OS for those things (Of Priority > Visual Studio > CS3 > Age of empires

    Cheers
    Icyculyr

    Well of course you would need Parallels or boot Camp install for Visual Studio, but pretty much those apps will run under whatever native OS on the iMac the same speed as anything else. A Mac isn't magically faster than a PC. Although strangely my iMac is .4 ghz slower with everything else pretty much the same as my PC and Flight Sim X runs better. But that could be an anomoly of any number of hardware being better in some way than what I had in my PC.

    As I have said before, the major advantage of a Mac is the lifestyle software. Forget speed and hardware costs comparisons. Look at the entire package. Software AND hardware.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Also on the development note, every single developer where I work (people who are developing *very* non-trivial software) are developing on Macs. If you suggested they do otherwise they'd laugh at you.

  18. #18
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Yeah i was kind of thrown off by the "doesnt come with notepad" statement as well. All you have to do is open up a text document to see it does. It also comes with a trial version of microsoft office and the mac equivalent office (i forget the name right now).
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  19. #19
    Banished Cander's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Forgot to add that it is a total joke that you are trying to use a single 3rd party SVN client as an argument against the Mac, when there is a very easy one to use integrated with XCode. Once again showing your lack of any actual knowledge of OS X software options.

    Of course I am just a silly Mac fanboi. What do I know?
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    Loquacious User Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    I'd have to say that I AM a mac basher. People here are discussing the finer points of speed at a bleeding edge that I can't afford (or at least choose not to). However, back around OS6, Apple pissed me off completely with their advertising, as well as reading their trade journals. To date, nothing has changed. Therefore, I wouldn't buy an Apple unless I could overcome the enmity they have created in me with their advertising strategies. Studies have continually demonstrated that the average Apple user can be described with A words, as well (arrogant being one of them, and the other is an AUP violation).

    Perhaps they can compete on technical merits, but only marginally. You still can't build your own Apple from ground up, the price/performance doesn't seem quite as good, but entirely aside from either of those questions, there are probably a fair number of people out there who just can't get over the negative image they have of Apple based on their deceptive advertising of the last decade.

    Oddly, I heard the other day that Apple is experiencing something of a backlash against the current Mac vs PC adds, because people find the PC character to be a more appealing personality. That's pretty much how I feel.

    At some point, for those of us who will NEVER be buying the top of the line for the simple fact that it isn't a sound fiscal choice, there may be more that goes into deciding what to buy other than hardware specs, and brand awareness does play a part. I would buy a technically inferior system to avoid the Apple brand, and I'm not alone. That has to say something.
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cander
    Forgot to add that it is a total joke that you are trying to use a single 3rd party SVN client as an argument against the Mac, when there is a very easy one to use integrated with XCode. Once again showing your lack of any actual knowledge of OS X software options.

    Of course I am just a silly Mac fanboi. What do I know?
    Oh, sorry I forgot to add that I was coding with PHP. A langauge not supported by XCode according to Wikipedia.
    If you know of something besides RapidSVN for SVN management, I'm all ears.
    And that is free. I have used SvnX, RpaidSVN, and SCPPlugin. SCPPlugin does not seem to support authentication when submitting. SvnX...I can't remember what problems I had with that. And RapidSVN seems to be pretty stable, but its still not as seamlessly integrated like the Windows client is.

    And why would that be a total joke anyways? TortoiseSVN works beautifully under Windows as a 3rd party client.
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    Frenzied Member TheBigB's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by k1ll3rdr4g0n
    Oh, sorry I forgot to add that I was coding with PHP. A langauge not supported by XCode according to Wikipedia.
    PHP is not an application developing language.
    And you shouldn't believe everything said on Wiki
    Delete it. They just clutter threads anyway.

  23. #23
    Frenzied Member Icyculyr's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Hmm, humans either fear, or get excited about what they don't know, and I've not used an apple much, so I assume mine is the latter...

    I can't imagine being afraid of an apple...

    Anyway, I think I will get a PC then, it's more suited (so I think) to what I need, and I know them like the back of my hand (pretty much), rather than an apple, with which I know as much as an ant.

    So I guess the trick with windows is getting good parts, and not downloading anything that slows it down..

    Although I do have a question, I've heard that windows computers, over time slow down significantly, and apples do not?

    Is this true?

    Cheers
    Icyculyr

  24. #24
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Icyculyr
    Hmm, humans either fear, or get excited about what they don't know, and I've not used an apple much, so I assume mine is the latter...

    I can't imagine being afraid of an apple...

    Anyway, I think I will get a PC then, it's more suited (so I think) to what I need, and I know them like the back of my hand (pretty much), rather than an apple, with which I know as much as an ant.

    So I guess the trick with windows is getting good parts, and not downloading anything that slows it down..

    Although I do have a question, I've heard that windows computers, over time slow down significantly, and apples do not?

    Is this true?

    Cheers
    Icyculyr
    It all depends on the software you install. If you install all sorts of random programs and drivers then yeah Windows is going to slow down. Otherwise, if you know what you install (such as IDEs, compilers, development tools) then your ok. I wouldn't install toolbars, cleanup startup to make sure nothing bad funny is starting up, keep an eye on running processes, anti-spyware utilities are never a bad thing either. Cleaning every once and while might help. Would you like an anti-virus with those fries? With a side of firewall perhaps? A few good tools to have in your toolkit, one for unlocking files and one for tweaking your IE settings/BHOs.
    I'll let our Apple friends answer the second part of your question. I think I have shoken up the beehive enough, for awhile
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    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
    Perhaps they can compete on technical merits, but only marginally. You still can't build your own Apple from ground up, the price/performance doesn't seem quite as good, but entirely aside from either of those questions, there are probably a fair number of people out there who just can't get over the negative image they have of Apple based on their deceptive advertising of the last decade.
    And who HAS had pleasant experiences with a hardware manufacturer? Apple does more than make the OS. They make the hardware. I could tell you story after story about HP.
    Their hardware may be overpriced on a simply functional standpoint, but there's a lot to be said for aesthetics.
    In any case, you in fact CAN build your own mac from the ground up (as long as you use intel) although it's against Apple's user agreement to install OS10 on hardware other than apple's. I've managed to get os10 to boot on an amd system (but not fully function) but lots of people run it on intel. look up "hackintosh".
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  26. #26
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
    And who HAS had pleasant experiences with a hardware manufacturer? Apple does more than make the OS. They make the hardware. I could tell you story after story about HP.
    Their hardware may be overpriced on a simply functional standpoint, but there's a lot to be said for aesthetics.
    In any case, you in fact CAN build your own mac from the ground up (as long as you use intel) although it's against Apple's user agreement to install OS10 on hardware other than apple's. I've managed to get os10 to boot on an amd system (but not fully function) but lots of people run it on intel. look up "hackintosh".
    I have had no bad experiences with Dell. In fact, afaik, their backlights in their laptops last the longest. And their laptops can take a beating. In fact their live chat support on their site was very helpful when I wanted to get my laptop's casing fixed. No hassle whatsoever.

    I have to disagree, Apple does not make the Hard drives or RAM. Hell they don't even make their own processors anymore . Though, I would bet 10 cents that they make their own mobos. Here is a picture of a "mac hard drive". Kinda funny that the only difference between that HD and one you buy from your local dealer is that the one you buy from your local dealer is cheaper and doesn't have the mac logo on it.

    Oh and you notice that whole user agreement thing for Mac OS. Funny how Microsoft doesn't have that for Windows.

    Now I'm done.
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  27. #27
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    they never did make their own processors. The other ones where 680x0 series motorolas. The same processors found in amiga computers.

    Microsoft does have a user agreement for windows. In fact they have a user agreement for every single patch you download. Surely you remember clicking "ok" about 200 times in the last month? And even so, the part of the mac user agreement i was referring to is not applicable to microsoft since they don't make their own hardware. Not only that but they were actually sued for trying to do something similar with 3rd-party manufacturers (anti-trust).

    They may assemble most of their parts from the parts bin, but the mobo and various other technologies are not only built in-house, but were actually invented there. firewire, anyone? I wasn't aware they didn't make their own ram though. I was under the impression they did. Surely they test it? But anyway, i will be the first to agree some of their hardware perhiferals (especially ram) is way overpriced, but 3rd party upgrades work just as well thanks to the fact they use all the same technologies now a standard ibm-clone does (with some differences such as no ps2 ports).

    A basic system such as my mac mini starts at $599.
    I personally like my wife's mac mini because it's quite possibly the smallest system of it's type available. It's barely bigger than a standard cd-rom drive yet manages to fit in an entire computer system plus bluetooth, wifi, dvd burner, and infrared remote control with interface similar to the itunes control.

    Finally if you know windows inside and out, and know little about an apple system, don't fret. Macs are notoriously easy to learn to use for the general user, while allowing advanced users down the road extreme power (unix commands, folder scripts, etc.)
    Last edited by Lord Orwell; Apr 29th, 2008 at 12:11 AM.
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  28. #28
    Fanatic Member Lerroy_Jenkins's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Well I got bored about half way down.

    But how about this, there is no right click for a MAC!

    And how about this funny video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqN76gYKHMs
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  29. #29
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    os 10 has right-click. 2+ button mice have been fully supported for a while now.
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  30. #30
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
    os 10 has right-click. 2+ button mice have been fully supported for a while now.
    My Powerbook laptop only has one button. So does my friend's Macbook Pro.
    Instead I of just "right clicking" I have to finger click, or ctrl+click.

    Can someone explain me the importance of a single button mouse? Seeing as Mac is all about shortcuts, it would make more sense to me to put more buttons on the mouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cander
    Shouldn't you know the answer to that? Since you said Windows is better for programming, obviously you have done research into Apple's APIs and development platforms. But if you REALLY want to know the answer to this, OS X DOES have a very powerful set of APIs from Core OS functionality all the way up to graphics, animation, and 3d.
    I am only going to pick this as it's borderline offensive.

    Lets take a look at Mac developers. If you ask them what the Windows API contains or what it is, they will simply shrug and go back to work. On another note, if you ask any web designer what C++ is, they will look at you with a funny look. On a similar note, are you going to ask your plumber how to fix your car? I hope not.

    That is like saying, should the Windows programmer know how to program on the Mac platform. And Should the Mac programmers know how to program on the Windows platform. This is not usually the case. Usually people stick with one area and stick with it, with some background knowledge in the other fields.

    And I like how you twisted my words. I said Windows is better for programming [as an environment], we have Visual Studio (which has wonderful VB6 and VB.Net), Bloodshed Dev C++, Codeblocks. We have all sorts of debuggers built into the IDEs (which are great I might add). The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that Mac has is XCode and Eclipse (which is cross platform anyways).

    This thread is getting very interesting...I wonder if any of the mods are watching it .

    At least we haven't gotten to level where we are saying that each other smells or something.
    Last edited by k1ll3rdr4g0n; Apr 30th, 2008 at 07:12 PM.
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  31. #31
    Loquacious User Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
    And who HAS had pleasant experiences with a hardware manufacturer? Apple does more than make the OS. They make the hardware. I could tell you story after story about HP.
    I may be easy to please, but I have generally been quite happy with most of the hardware companies I have dealt with over the years. On the other hand, I have always stayed away from HP and Gateway, so I am not making choices at random (though it sometimes feels that way).

    Their hardware may be overpriced on a simply functional standpoint, but there's a lot to be said for aesthetics.
    Yes, in the case of Apple, you can also say: YUCK!! I have yet to see anything out of that company that was good looking. A guy who was working for me had pretty much every toy they put out. For most of it you could just say "White is the new beige." Then he bought a really good desktop system, and it looked totally pretentious. Not to say that you couldn't do just as badly in the PC market, as there are plenty of goofy cases out there. I guess when it comes to taste, there are lots of varieties.

    In any case, you in fact CAN build your own mac from the ground up (as long as you use intel) although it's against Apple's user agreement to install OS10 on hardware other than apple's. I've managed to get os10 to boot on an amd system (but not fully function) but lots of people run it on intel. look up "hackintosh".
    I didn't know that.
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  32. #32
    Frenzied Member Icyculyr's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Hey, guys can I have an opinion?

    I am currently have a computer with a Intel-Dual Core 3.0GHz Processor, 2GB DR2 RAM (I think), and a nVidia 6600 graphics card (really old), and I currently have some Altec Lansing speakers..

    If I were to upgrade what would be better? my computer's probably 2-3 years old now, I'm wondering what I could upgrade to for a relatively nice price, that's got a decent graphics card (256-512MB), and a good processor, I'm wondering what's a good speed to get? 3.2GHz? or 3.4GHz or 3.0 etc..?

    and anything else about a processor that is good to know when buying a computer.

    I would appreciate any opinions on if that would be a good computer to buy...

    and 2 - 3 GB DDR3 ram..

    I also was wondering is GDDR3 RAM the same as DDR3 RAM?

    Cheers
    Icyculyr
    Last edited by Icyculyr; Apr 30th, 2008 at 10:21 PM.

  33. #33
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    never heard of gddr3 ram. But if you want a motherboard that supports it (and it's generally not necessary for ddr3 to be on the motherboard since ddr2 goes up to 1066mhz) you had better expect to pay a LOT of money for it. Your processor is fast enough. Upgrade your video card and slap another gb of ram in there if you're running xp32 or 2-4 gb more if you're running 64-bit.
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  34. #34
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
    never heard of gddr3 ram. But if you want a motherboard that supports it (and it's generally not necessary for ddr3 to be on the motherboard since ddr2 goes up to 1066mhz) you had better expect to pay a LOT of money for it. Your processor is fast enough. Upgrade your video card and slap another gb of ram in there if you're running xp32 or 2-4 gb more if you're running 64-bit.
    Why does he have to add more ram if hes running 64 bit edition?
    I have 1 GB of RAM and it runs just fine for me. Granted some drivers/applications wont install, but that's not because I don't have enough RAM. It's because of that whole 64bit thing.
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    Fanatic Member Lerroy_Jenkins's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Why are you discussing this inside of a Different thread?
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerroy_Jenkins
    Why are you discussing this inside of a Different thread?
    I think you mean instead.

    I believe the 2 to be related because hes asking about mac performace and now hes asking about his PCs performance.
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  37. #37
    Fanatic Member Lerroy_Jenkins's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    No, I meant what I said. Why are they discussing this "Topic" inside of a different thread. Implying that the topic he had brought up was inside a different thread that it should of been in. Sorry not very clear.
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  38. #38
    Banished Cander's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Quote Originally Posted by k1ll3rdr4g0n
    My Powerbook laptop only has one button. So does my friend's Macbook Pro.
    Instead I of just "right clicking" I have to finger click, or ctrl+click.

    Can someone explain me the importance of a single button mouse? Seeing as Mac is all about shortcuts, it would make more sense to me to put more buttons on the mouse.


    I am only going to pick this as it's borderline offensive.

    Lets take a look at Mac developers. If you ask them what the Windows API contains or what it is, they will simply shrug and go back to work. On another note, if you ask any web designer what C++ is, they will look at you with a funny look. On a similar note, are you going to ask your plumber how to fix your car? I hope not.

    That is like saying, should the Windows programmer know how to program on the Mac platform. And Should the Mac programmers know how to program on the Windows platform. This is not usually the case. Usually people stick with one area and stick with it, with some background knowledge in the other fields.

    And I like how you twisted my words. I said Windows is better for programming [as an environment], we have Visual Studio (which has wonderful VB6 and VB.Net), Bloodshed Dev C++, Codeblocks. We have all sorts of debuggers built into the IDEs (which are great I might add). The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that Mac has is XCode and Eclipse (which is cross platform anyways).

    This thread is getting very interesting...I wonder if any of the mods are watching it .

    At least we haven't gotten to level where we are saying that each other smells or something.
    I have to apologize for my responses that day. I way really PO'd with something at work and I can't yell at them. But to address this:

    First off I didn't twist your words. When you say X is better than Y for Z, you have to take all angles into considerations. Once aspect of a multi aspect scenario does not make for a proper comparison.

    And again you are riding this wave of misinformation about lack of software for OS X. False.

    Some IDEs for OS X:
    Komodo
    Eclipse
    XCode
    Real Basic
    Code Warrior
    Code::Blocks

    And that is just the ones off my head. If I went looking, I could find plenty more.

    And going back to other software. http://www.apple.com/downloads. TONS of software links there from Freeware to Demos of pay software. Text editors, art software, budget software, office software, productivity software, and everything else you can think of.
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  39. #39
    Cyberman Lord Orwell's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    it's not 100% related to the original topic, but i suggested adding RAM no matter which OS he was using. The difference is that 32-bit versions of windows can only address up to 3.2 gig of it and adding extra past that is a waste of money. It's a physical limitation, not a software one. If you've got 4 or even 8 gb of ram, your swap file is almost never going to be used and you will notice a huge system speed increase.

    It's true he should have started a new thread though. Would definitely have gotten more anwers.
    John Lord, Evansville Indiana

  40. #40
    Frenzied Member Icyculyr's Avatar
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    Re: Going Mac, are they better?

    Hehe, once again off topic (sorry), so, if I get 3GB RAM, for my computer, then my page file won't be used at all (pretty much), so that would be a huge speed increase as you said?

    Cheers
    Icyculyr

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