Quote:
Oh it so is. Immediately after the referendum pretty much all the MPs in both major parties panicked and loudly declared that they'd "respect the will of the people" even though they universally thought it was a bloody stupid idea. Then the doubled down on it and both ran election campaigns that promised they'd do it in their manifestos... even though they thought it was a bloody stupid idea. and they're all still right there saying "well, there was a referendum and we need to respect the will of the people"... even though they still thing it is a bloody stupid idea.
To be fair they didn't have a lot of choice once the vote was lost but to back the result, but i would argue that what people voted for or what they thought they voted for is fundamentally different to what they are being presented with now and as such going back to the public with the actual choice is in no way undemocratic and in fact may end up being the only option remaining.
Quote:
If a referendum were held tomorrow the most likely outcome is exactly the same as the last one. Most of the credible polls show that nobody has changed their opinion one jot.
I wouldn't be so sure but either way if parliament cant come up with a solution (and this is looking increasing likely from what we have heard today) it may come down to another public vote. You make the question clear in that you either vote to leave on the presented terms or you vote to stay and the result is then enacted upon then i think its viable. Not everyone will be happy but then there is no option that makes everyone happy !
It is possible that some cross party coalition could form around another deal but considering today the PM has re-iterated she wont move on her red lines of no customs union and no single market then i dont see how there is any majority for anything!
Quote:
The two stand out examples recently was the impositions they put on Greece and their overturning of the Italian budget.
I am in two minds on this, i dont like how Greece was handled i feel that they were overly punished. Yes there was financial mismanagement by Greece but they were not alone and it was all exacerbated by the great market crash of 2008, and i feel in the process of rescuing it as a country should have included debt relief at a much earlier stage which would have meant they could have avoided much of the worst of the austerity which came afterwards.
Italy's recent budget being overturned is a slightly different thing, all EU countries have agreed in the treaties the have signed not to increase national debt past certain unsustainable levels and the current Italian Government ignored them and tried to enact policies which would have vastly increase its national debt.
The EU just enforced the agreement that everyone signed up to, and really if countries want to change those rules and there is some evidence at least that some of them do, they can look to bring that to the EU parliament. There is a democratic process that came up with these treaties in the first place and there is also a process in which they could be changed if they get enough support.
Quote:
A lot of people look at the EU and see it as some sort of Liberal utopia. I don't. Mostly I see a ruthless capitalist's wet dream.
I would say that it general it reflects the politics in the member countries in the EU in recent times. I wouldn't go as far as that, its an imperfect system but most political systems are there are good things the EU does as well as bad and at times those good things get ignored and we only focus on the bad.
Quote:
I really like the principle of freedom of movement but, if the EU is so wonderfully liberal, why is it not applied to non-Europeans.
Free movement as a principle has made nearly every country in the EU better off and is really unparalleled anywhere else in the world. No country in the world has open boarders, and having free movement across so many countries should be seen as a great thing.
The way the EU dealt with the migrant crisis is a different thing and really the EU started of with a policy of taking in migrants but it was the individual countries governments (of which Hungary are one of the worst offenders) which changed the policy. We in the UK are complicit in this with our immigration obsession.
Quote:
I really like the principles of free trade but the EU places some pretty punitive (though not Trump level) tariffs on any imports from outside the EU.
Every Country does this, the way round them is to strike trade deals and the EU has struck a lot of trade deals with 3rd party countries over the years. In an ideal world we would have no tariffs anywhere but you cant just unilaterally open up your markets without reciprocal access that would be trade suicide.