SourceSafe

It's sad when I can't even find a thread that I started....or at least I think I started it. Whoever started it, and whenever, I can't find it, but now I need the information, so I guess I have to ask again:

We were using Vsiual SourceSafe for a long time. That kind of went away, as did much of our network architecture. As we have been in a state of flux for many reasons, nobody has looked into an alternative to VSS (except for me in the post I can no longer find). Therefore, I'm looking for an alternative. The one thing I remember from that post is that I got two or three good suggestions, and I'd kind of like to get them again.

There are a variety of suggestions (including Subversion / VisualSVN / Team Foundation Server) in this thread you posted in:
http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=563952

Hmmm, perhaps that is the thread I was searching for, though it doesn't seem quite like it. Of course, if I could remember, I could probably find it better. Still, I'm surprised that my search didn't come up with that thread. I'll take a look at the items mentioned there.

I still use VSS - why do you need to switch?

After a bit of searching, I suppose I might not NEED to switch. The location where we had VSS installed has gone away (the whole physical server has been removed, as well as the network topology changing), and it seems like the time to explore our options. What got me started on this was the fact that VSS hasn't been updated since VS2005. There isn't a VSS2010, for instance, which initially got me thinking that MS had discontinued it (which they may have, just like VB6 is discontinued, yet still viable). I see now that VSS still works in VS2010, though the integration doesn't seem to be quite as tight and seemless as it was back in 2005.

So, what is the best course of action now? Will VSS remain as is, or is it truly discontinued and just hanging on? Should I switch to something else, now, while the time is right?

TFS (Team Foundation Server) is like the replacement for VSS and integrates with .net Visual Studio versions.

In Many ways it is more feature rich than VSS but it also lacks some basic things (n.b. i am using VS 2008 currently and apparently VS 2010 integration is better) like the ability to view the branch history, we have had to download a separate plugin for and it is still not quite as good.

SVN is the only other one i have used which i really liked but i only used it for web projects. You will need a separate plugin for Visual Studio of which there are several out there such as VisulaSVN and AnkhSVN (which you might want to read upon i have never used one) as it doesn't integrate directly.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

After a bit of searching, I suppose I might not NEED to switch. The location where we had VSS installed has gone away (the whole physical server has been removed, as well as the network topology changing), and it seems like the time to explore our options. What got me started on this was the fact that VSS hasn't been updated since VS2005. There isn't a VSS2010, for instance, which initially got me thinking that MS had discontinued it (which they may have, just like VB6 is discontinued, yet still viable). I see now that VSS still works in VS2010, though the integration doesn't seem to be quite as tight and seemless as it was back in 2005.

So, what is the best course of action now? Will VSS remain as is, or is it truly discontinued and just hanging on? Should I switch to something else, now, while the time is right?

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Two months ago we got new Windows Servers in place of our Novell Servers along with removing the Novell Client from 1000+ client machines. Changed the setting for the new location of our Source Safe database and all was fine. This is our second move of the Source Safe database and each time there have been no issues. I would also point out we have a developer maintain Source Safe database once a week, before that we did have issue (which I cannot remember what they were as it was years ago).

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

After a bit of searching, I suppose I might not NEED to switch. The location where we had VSS installed has gone away (the whole physical server has been removed, as well as the network topology changing), and it seems like the time to explore our options. What got me started on this was the fact that VSS hasn't been updated since VS2005. There isn't a VSS2010, for instance, which initially got me thinking that MS had discontinued it (which they may have, just like VB6 is discontinued, yet still viable). I see now that VSS still works in VS2010, though the integration doesn't seem to be quite as tight and seemless as it was back in 2005.

So, what is the best course of action now? Will VSS remain as is, or is it truly discontinued and just hanging on? Should I switch to something else, now, while the time is right?

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If you're using VSS now and have any opportunity to switch, I would recommend that you do.

I can tell you this much, SubVersion is awesome. I've set up a SubVersion repository and have used the AnkhSVN plugin for VS2008 Pro and VS2010 Ultimate (separately though) and it's worked beautifully both times, you've got the full VS integration in Solution Explorer and everything. Of course you do need to have TortoiseSVN installed for the AnkhSVN plugin to work, but it's also a free program like SubVersion and AnkhSVN are.

I've also seen how TFS and VS2010 work, which is quite well, full integration with a lot more features, but they were still in the process of setting things up when I got a better job offer and left. Plus hosting a TFS server comes with a very hefty price tag, not something a small business could typically afford.

Don't forget to consider the new breed of Distributed CVSs. They enable some more advanced workflows and those who try them rave about them. I unfortunately have not had a chance to use them in anger, only toying so far, but I like what I read.

Mercurial by all accounts has a slightly nicer Windows experience. The main other one is Git.

If you investigate them, just remember that you're not in Kansas, anymore. Things that look similar to concepts you're familiar with from a centralised VCS require a fundamentally different mindset to understand properly, or you'll get yourself in a pickle.


Oh, and to second JB, yes, you do need to switch. VSS is not a product you can rely on, particularly for team development. Unless you like your source control system destroying all your source code.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Giraffe

Oh, and to second JB, yes, you do need to switch. VSS is not a product you can rely on, particularly for team development. Unless you like your source control system destroying all your source code.

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I have heard this many times but with over 40 projects in our SS database we have not had any show stoppers. We maintain our database once a week otherwise I might guess there would be issues. This is not to say I am against changing but why change unless there are problems.

I've got a 12 years old SOURCE SAFE set up on my windows 2003 server.

Never maintain it - didn't really know you could.

Never had any problems or failures.

Have thousands of stored procedures and many various vb projects in it...

Frankly, switching isn't really the issue. We had VSS set up, but that was a couple years back, and we've been in a flurry of transition ever since. I expect that the physical machine where VSS was installed is no longer in our posession.

In fact, the flurry of transitions hasn't really passed, as I haven't been able to think about this issue since those initial posts, and I'm pretty sure that we won't do more than hold a casual conversation in passing about the subject for the next week or two. I'm a bit too busy to really test out anything.

The only CVS I know about is the pharmacy chain, and I think they may have been bought out a few years back, so I'll have to look into a different meaning for that TLA.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

I've got a 12 years old SOURCE SAFE set up on my windows 2003 server.

Never maintain it - didn't really know you could.

Never had any problems or failures.

Have thousands of stored procedures and many various vb projects in it...

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In regards to maintaining the database, we did not from my first year in the company 1994 until roughly 1999 when a new developer joined us and indicated it might be wise to do weekly chores on the database. From that point on one developer did so early each Friday morning. If not for this developer who knows we could still be fine but we decided why not do this as it was easy to do.

Not sure if anyone else does this but we will mark versions and in some cases lock version as per the image below.

[QUOTE=Shaggy Hiker;4136131The only CVS I know about is the pharmacy chain, and I think they may have been bought out a few years back, so I'll have to look into a different meaning for that TLA.[/QUOTE]

s/CVS/VCS :blush:

Ah, that explains it. I thought there was a whole new realm of possibilities out there that I hadn't heard about before.

If you want source control with a client/server model of operating like VSS then I would recommend Subversion, AnkhSubversion (VS integration), and TortoiseSVN (windows explorer integration).

If you want to go down the DVCS route then Mercurial and Git both have Visual Studio and windows explorer integration.

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I've got a 12 years old SOURCE SAFE set up on my windows 2003 server.

Never maintain it - didn't really know you could.

Never had any problems or failures.

Have thousands of stored procedures and many various vb projects in it...

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I'll second that. I've heard loads of horror stories but have never experienced one.

Shaggy, I think CVS stands for Concurrent Versioning Software. We used to use it at a company I worked for in about 2000 but the company had developed their own front end for it (I think the shipped front end was command line driven at the time). I remember it being a total headache and falling over all the time but I don't know whether that was the fault of the our front end or the product itself.

Interesting. I was sure it referred to the Constant Velocity Squid.

My exploration of options has been put on hold by getting a new computer and not being able to get critical projects to even open once moved over. Still dealing with that, then I'll get back to versioning.

CVS is an early Unix based VCS. (I think the S was for System, however?) I wasn't referring to that though, 'twas a straight typo I'm afraid :$

I thought I'd check out that article you linked to, EG, linked to and, having read it, I'm inclined not to take it too seriously. Mainly because his introduction contains the sentence:-
"Apart from offering training and consulting in Rapid Software Testing, I am also available for consultation on Visual SourceSafe and configuration management issues."
Essentially, that article is written to sell a service. It's in the publisher's interest to make sourcesafe sound as unreliable as possible because he makes his money selling migrations away from the product.

Also most of the issues he raises are not bugs, they're him miss-understanding the product IMO. For example:-

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A file that has been deleted may easily be purged from the database, preventing previous versions of the project from being rebuilt.

Create a project called A. To this project, add a file named 1.c. Optionally revise the file; then delete it from A. Add a different file called 1.c to A; you will be offered the choice to recover the file, or to purge it from the database. Choose not to recover the deleted file, but instead to add your new file. Display the history of the project, and attempt to Get a version of that project from before 1.c was deleted. You will find that the original version of 1.c is not available, and thus your project cannot be rebuilt.

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Soooo, you added a file and then deleted it. OK so far. Then, as a result of adding a similarly named file, you were asked if you wanted to recover or purge the original file... and you chose purge... and the file was purged... and you're suprised by that behaviour.


I'm sure SS does have the occasionaly problem but, in all honesty, it's pretty robust and has never caused me a problem I couldn't trivially resolve.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Interesting. I was sure it referred to the Constant Velocity Squid.

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That's only because you work with fish. :)

We use Subversion (SVN). It's free, powerful and really easy to use. On the back-end, we run VisualSVN server. On the front end, we run AnkhSVN which integrates directly into Visual Studio.

I've heard good things about subversion but have never used it. I've just begun a contract where they have no source control at present and want to bring it in. It's probably time to try Subversion out.

There's two camps when it comes to the client. Seems half the people I talk to who use it use TortoiseSVN and the other half use AnkhSVN (heck, some use both).

TortoiseSVN integrates with Windows Explorer. Anytime you want to update the source, check it in, branch it, etc, you open up where you have the local copy of it on your computer in Explorer, rt-click on the directory and select what you want to do via the context menus. The guys who use it like that it "keeps things separate" from the IDE.

AnkhSVN is integrated with Visual Studio. You click File->Open Project and can choose to open a project on an SVN; at which time it'll prompt you for where you want to store the local copy to work on. Checking it in is done via a tab-panel they add in, and it'll mark the file icons in the solution explorer for which files are synched with the SVN, and which differ in some way. As can be expected, guys who like AnkhSVN like it because it's all integrated into the IDE.

As I said, not to say you can't run both. You can make a new folder on your desktop for example, rt-click and tell TortoiseSVN to dump a project into it from a Subversion server. Then, fire up Visual Studio, open the project, and when you're done, click the "Update" button in the tab created by AnkhSVN to synchronize the project. Conflicts will be shown at this time.

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Originally Posted by Jenner

AnkhSVN is integrated with Visual Studio. You click File->Open Project and can choose to open a project on an SVN; at which time it'll prompt you for where you want to store the local copy to work on. Checking it in is done via a tab-panel they add in, and it'll mark the file icons in the solution explorer for which files are synched with the SVN, and which differ in some way. As can be expected, guys who like AnkhSVN like it because it's all integrated into the IDE.

As I said, not to say you can't run both. You can make a new folder on your desktop for example, rt-click and tell TortoiseSVN to dump a project into it from a Subversion server. Then, fire up Visual Studio, open the project, and when you're done, click the "Update" button in the tab created by AnkhSVN to synchronize the project. Conflicts will be shown at this time.

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That's how I use it, at one point though I remember reading that to use AnkhSVN you had to have TortoiseSVN installed, but that was a long time ago (before VS 2008 was released).

One of the things I really, really, really like is that AnkhSVN only checks in/out the files that are needed for the project, if you use TortoiseSVN then everything (including the bin & obj folders) gets checked in (including your binaries) and I've heard when it comes to source code control, you should only check in the project files and support documents, not executables and other binaries the project produces as that could introduce any viruses you may have on your machine into your repository or something along those lines. But I am a fan in general of not checking in your bin and obj folders since those can be built simply by updating your local project files and re-compiling which is how it should be.