Real Studio VS Visual Basic

Hey there,

I was doing some searching last night - trying to find a vb-like program that will allow you to develop for multiple platforms.
In my searches, I found a product called Real Studio (www.realsoftware.com) - they offer a vb-like software that will create application for Windows, Mac, Linux and Web.

I was curious if anyone had any experience with this?
The cost isn't super steep, so I was considering picking up a copy - would LOVE to be able to create for multiple platforms in one progam.

If any of you have used this, or used similar multiplatform development programs, I'd love to hear your input.

Dont get me wrong - I love VB - its output is just a bit too limiting.

Moved to the General Developer forum.

I've used RealBasic back in the days. To make a fair comparison you should really compare it with VB6 and not with .Net since the .Net platform is far more versatile. When it comes to the cost for RealStudio (as it's called these days) you really need to first decide which edition you want to have. The Personal Edition isn't for cross-platform development since you have to decide which platform you want to develop for and if you want to add another there's an additional $99 per platform. With the Professional Edition you can develop desktop applications for each platform but not for the web. So if you want all platforms + the web, you have to get the Enterprise Edition so that is $995 (maybe not as cheap as you expected). If you only want the Web Edition then the cost for that is $599.

So let's say you go for the Personal Edition for $99 per platform (and only desktop apps, not the web) then you also have to understand that you cannot create console applications with that edition. Earlier they also didn't allow you to sell applications you created with the Personal Edition but I'm unsure if that is still the case. Also for you to develop cross platform apps with Personal Edition, besides that you have to pay $99 per platform, you also need to do the actual development on the platform you want to deploy it on.

So if you really want to do cross-platform development you would at least need the Professional Edition for $299 but you would still not be able to develop web applications.

Have you Lazarus it not basic but a Delphi king of clone comes with many things and covers many platforms o it's free to, The lanuage is much like VB you still have form designer and all that stuff, supports many open source databases 100s of comonents you can extent it.

http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/

Joacim -

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.
Their pricing structure is a bit confusing at first, but I think it makes sense to me now.
Honestly, if their product is as good as they say it is, I dont have a problem paying $299 for Windows/Mac/Linux capabilities.
I have one of each of those machines, so I'm not worried about having to have those platforms for development.

My real questions is - can it do everything vb.net does?
Have you looked at the specs of the new one since you used their old version?

BenJones - I've never heard of that before - I'll have to check it out this evening.

Anyone else have some input?

I think you misunderstood. With the professional edition you develop on only one of the platforms and can deploy to any of them.
Apart from the fact that you can develop for 3 different platforms, the answer to if it can do everything VB.Net does is No.

You can still not create web sites with it, for that you need their web edition (or enterprise edition) and even with that you are bound to what their components can do since you don't have real access to the server vs client code. You can however create CGI apps (not in the personal edition), but you need to manually deploy them on the web server if you get the Pro Edition. The .Net framework is so much more complete and also have a lot of 3rd party components which you will never get with RealStudio.

With that said RealStudio is not a bad product at all. It's main advantage is of course that you can build for Windows, Linux, and Mac OS-X from the same source code. If you mainly want to build desktop apps or use server sockets to build server apps, then this will do the job for you. The language is more like VB6 rather than VB.Net even though it supports inheritance. One of the down-sides (in my humble opinion) is that you can't really list all the code in a file by file basis since all your source is stored in a binary file and you have to watch the source on an event by event or function by function basis (similar to how VB3 showed the source code). I guess you can get used to that, at least with your own source code but I find it hard when it comes to viewing existing code and also for debugging purposes. This also locks you in to the RealStudio IDE, which may or may not be a problem for you.

They do offer a 30-day trial, so I would suggest that you download it. Try it out and try to create something simple but still useful and something that you think you would use this for (in other words a typical application you think you would create). During 30 days you should be able to create something, even if not fully complete, and would then have a feel for what this really can be used for and if it's worth the ~300 bucks.

Also, it says on their site that they have a conversion tool to convert the code from .Net to Real if you need it although, I am not sure how good it is at converting the code.

Joacim -

I'm so new to vb, that I just dont know what all this program is capable of - and I really have no comparison for the older versions - I've never used any version of vb other than the 2010 Express.
I'm also not nearly as advanced as you, so I wouldn't be using most of its functionality anyway.

I do, however, want to start learning something that could continue to benefit me.
I dont want to grow beyond the ability of the program too quickly - I want this to be something I can use beyond the basics.
It seems like vb can do that, and Real Studio cant, from your description.

I guess the one part that makes me drool is the ability to build for multiple platforms.
Originally, I am a mac guy, and was forced to come to the pc to scratch the programming itch.
I know there a tons of people in both OS category, so it seems like the best move to go with the option that will allow me to create for both OSs.
Just bummed to hear that it cant keep up with vb.

Nitwalker83 -

I did see that they have that conversion tool - that is awesome.
I would almost rather start over on my projects though, so I could teach myself their programming language.

On the web end of things, the exported files contain no useable source code, wich I find quite cool as well.
I think the only other program that offers the same security (that I know of) is flash.
I would sell my soul for the ability to take someones swf file and run it through a program that turned it back into source code.
(If any of you nerdy programmers can figure that out... I'll have your babies)



If anyone else has an opinion on Real Studio, I'd love to hear it.
I'm weighing all options still, so any input would be greatly appreciated!

I don't think you will outgrow RealStudio anytime soon since you can do a lot with it straight out-of-the-box. Besides just because you get a new development tool doesn't mean you have to give up on VB, use the right tool for the job. Even though the framework is different between VB and RealBasic it's still the Basic language so all the basic syntax would be the same. All iterations, such as loops, work exactly the same. Selections such as If statements and Select Case blocks works the same way. The value types are the same. The object oriented notation are the same. The various objects will of course differ but even if you just stay with one single language you will always encounter new APIs which you need to learn anyway.

So I did not mean that you shouldn't try out RealBasic, you just asked for the differences and I pointed out some of them and also tried to explain what you can expect from the different editions of RealStudio and which one you should get if you want to develop for more than one platform. So I would still encourage you to download the trial version of RealStudio and try it out, the true advantage is of course that you can develop for both OS-X and Windows. In all honesty to be able to develop for Mac without using C/C++ or the terrible mish-mash language that is Objective-C could very well be worth $299.

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

In all honesty to be able to develop for Mac without using C/C++ or the terrible mish-mash language that is Objective-C could very well be worth $299.

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Yeah, I think to publish an Objective-C for use on Apple devices is about $200 per/year. Which is a bit pointless in paying if you don't know if your idea is going to be a hit or not.

Well, that's the cost of being a registered Apple developer which you need to be to be able to put apps on any of the Apple stores. It really has nothing to do with the fact that the app was written in Objective-C. If you develop a Mac application with RealStudio you still have to pay that yearly cost if you want to post it in the Mac Store, and Apple will also take 30% of all your sales. Microsoft has done something similar for the Windows 8 and Phone 7/8 store. To be fair though that cost will also let you use the XCode IDE for free, compare that with the cost for Visual Studio Pro or Enterprise.

Joacim / Nightwalker83 -

I too feel that $299 is worth paying to not have to deal with Objective C.
Besides, any application that I create would be release on a local level first - if no buzz is generated, then I wouldn't waste my time with the mac store - so the annual developer fee for apple isnt
something that I am really worrying about.

I have several ideas for fairly basic industry-specific software programs - industries that typically favor the mac platform.
If anyone knows of any better software for quickly building mac apps, I'm all ears.

Real Studio is a great alternative to Visual Basic. As far as capabilities go, it fits between VB6 and VB.NET. The language itself is fully object-oriented and closer to VB.NET than it is to VB6. But Real Studio is simpler to learn and use than VB.NET (that .NET framework is massive!)

We do offer a "migration" tool, but it does not do code conversion. It simply migrates the VB project to a Real Studio project so you can open it in Real Studio, copying your old code as is. When switching between languages, it is better to recreate the app using the features of the new language and framework and not try to emulate what the old one had.

The Professional Edition lets you develop a desktop app on a single platform and deploy to Windows, OS X and Linux. It also has a nice remote debugger that makes it easy to test on the other platforms.

You can also create web apps using Web Edition or Enterprise Edition. And with the new WebControl SDK that came out with our most recent release (2012r2.1), you can now interface just about any JavaScript-based control with Real Studio.

If you have specific questions, ask away and I'll answer as best I can.

Thanks,

Paul Lefebvre
Developer Evangelist
Real Software, Inc.

I was just wondering, earlier today, how long it would take for some evangelist from Real Software to pick up this thread. :)

<ModeratorMode>
Since the OP specifically asked for the difference between VB and Real Studio I'm going to allow some flexibility here, but be careful so that the posts don't turn into pure advertisements. You're already on the border-line here with the Developer Conference link.
</ModeratorMode>

OK, with that out of the way, you actually woke my curiosity about your WebControl SDK. As I've understood it, your WebControl SDK is based on some existing JavaScript framework (I've always suspected that you've used ExtJS as the base, but I can of course be completely wrong here). When you say that you can now (and apparently you couldn't before) interface with almost any JavaScript based control does that also mean that you can hook in other JavaScript frameworks, such as jQuery (I ask hopefully, but expect not)?

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

I was just wondering, earlier today, how long it would take for some evangelist from Real Software to pick up this thread. :)

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Us evangelists can smell threads like this :-)

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

<ModeratorMode>
Since the OP specifically asked for the difference between VB and Real Studio I'm going to allow some flexibility here, but be careful so that the posts don't turn into pure advertisements. You're already on the border-line here with the Developer Conference link.
</ModeratorMode>

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Sorry about that. Your sig had links so I thought they were permitted. I'll remove the conference link.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

OK, with that out of the way, you actually woke my curiosity about your WebControl SDK. As I've understood it, your WebControl SDK is based on some existing JavaScript framework (I've always suspected that you've used ExtJS as the base, but I can of course be completely wrong here). When you say that you can now (and apparently you couldn't before) interface with almost any JavaScript based control does that also mean that you can hook in other JavaScript frameworks, such as jQuery (I ask hopefully, but expect not)?

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Yes, you can use controls that rely on other JavaScript frameworks such as jQuery. The included WebControl SDK includes a jQuery Calendar example and I know of at least one user that has been actively working on getting other jQuery controls running.

Thanks,

Paul Lefebvre
Developer Evangelist
Real Software, Inc.

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Originally Posted by LogicalVue

Us evangelists can smell threads like this :-)

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Or maybe it's just part of your job description to Google for Real Studio and Realbasic from time to time. ;)

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Originally Posted by LogicalVue

Sorry about that. Your sig had links so I thought they were permitted. I'll remove the conference link.

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Links are allowed, it all depends on what they link to. I link to my blog where I blog about .Net without promoting any specific products. Besides, I did allow your link, I just said it was bordering a commercial statement. If you had posted that link in any other thread I would probably have removed it.

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Originally Posted by LogicalVue

Yes, you can use controls that rely on other JavaScript frameworks such as jQuery. The included WebControl SDK includes a jQuery Calendar example and I know of at least one user that has been actively working on getting other jQuery controls running.

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OK, so this is only for controls then? I mean the real strength of jQuery isn't really in controls but rather with the ease you can manipulate the HTML DOM and call REST APIs.

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

OK, so this is only for controls then? I mean the real strength of jQuery isn't really in controls but rather with the ease you can manipulate the HTML DOM.

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Right. The WebSDK is really only for hooking up controls (although you can use controls that also rely on their own frameworks).

LogicalVue -

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread.

I have a few general questions for you, if you have a moment:

A) In your opinion, (im going to put you on the spot here) what are the strengths and weaknesses of RealStudio?
I've never used older versions of VB, so when you say that its functionality is in between VB6 and VB.NET - I'm not sure what exactly that means.

B) I'm thinking about downloading the trial version of the software this evening when I get home.
What limitations does the trial version have - will I be able to create a simple program and export it, to see how the final product would run on the various machines?

C) Should I like the program, and decide to purchase a copy, it will most likely be the Professional Edition.
If I decide later down the road that I would like to have the web capabilities, do you offer an upgrade from the Professional to Web Edition (where I would just pay the difference of the two) or do I have to buy a copy of the Web Edition at full price?

D) Do you know of any real world examples of programs that were built in Real Studio?
I'd like to see what others are doing with your software, if possible.

I appreciate your time and help!

Sorry for cutting in again, but I think I can answer your third question.
I know they offer upgrade prices, Paul can answer how much the actual price is but you probably don't want to upgrade from Pro to Web since the Web Edition is for the Web only. You probably want to upgrade from Pro to Enterprise since that includes everything in Pro+Web.

They have a nice comparison chart between the different editions here.

Juacim -

Thanks for your input - and for catching my oversight.. I didnt notice that the web edition was ONLY for the web, and wasnt the professional edition with the web added. Bummer :)

I also noticed on that comparison chart that (under the professional edition) you can DEPLOY on the various platforms, but not DEVELOP on the various platforms... So I assume this means I have
to pick which OS I want to install and run Real Studio on, and wouldn't have the ability to download/run it on my various machines.....? Also a bummer.

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Originally Posted by codenewbie

Juacim

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Yes, cudenewby :)

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Originally Posted by codenewbie

I also noticed on that comparison chart that (under the professional edition) you can DEPLOY on the various platforms, but not DEVELOP on the various platforms... So I assume this means I have
to pick which OS I want to install and run Real Studio on, and wouldn't have the ability to download/run it on my various machines.....?

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Yes, both Paul as well as myself did mention this earlier. However Paul also said that it comes with a remote debugger so you can debug the applications on all the platforms. Is this really an issue for you? Wouldn't it be nice to have all your development done on one computer? I actually see that as an advantage, especially since I think you can pick which environment you want to do your development on. The main thing is the ability to debug on all platforms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by codenewbie

A) In your opinion, (im going to put you on the spot here) what are the strengths and weaknesses of RealStudio?
I've never used older versions of VB, so when you say that its functionality is in between VB6 and VB.NET - I'm not sure what exactly that means.

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Real Studio has two main strengths. First, it is incredibly easy to use. Second, it is cross-platform.

VB6 was also incredibly easy to use. But its language was not fully object-oriented and it certainly isn't cross-platform. It also had a pretty small built-in framework. VB.NET is incredibly powerful and is a fully object-oriented language. The .NET framework is massive, however, so it takes a lot more effort to learn all about it. Perhaps with Mono you could get VB.NET be cross-platform, but that is not straightforward.

Real Studio fits in between them. It is a fully object-oriented language with a framework that is larger than VB6, but smaller than VB.NET. It makes cross-platform easy.

As far as weaknesses, the biggest one is that there are fewer 3rd party controls available as add-ons to Real Studio than there are with VB.NET. The language also doesn't have some of the more advanced features of VB.NET, such as generics or Linq.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by codenewbie

B) I'm thinking about downloading the trial version of the software this evening when I get home.
What limitations does the trial version have - will I be able to create a simple program and export it, to see how the final product would run on the various machines?

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The trial version is good for 30 days. It can create standalone builds that will work for 5 minutes at a time so you can test various machines.

And you can use the remote debugger to directly run your projects from Real Studio on another platform. For example, I mostly develop on OS X. But I have to test on Windows. So I have a Windows VM running the remote debugger. This allows me to launch my project from Real Studio on OS X but to tell it to run it on the Windows VM so that I can use the debugger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by codenewbie

C) Should I like the program, and decide to purchase a copy, it will most likely be the Professional Edition.
If I decide later down the road that I would like to have the web capabilities, do you offer an upgrade from the Professional to Web Edition (where I would just pay the difference of the two) or do I have to buy a copy of the Web Edition at full price?

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You will mostly likely want to move from Professional to Enterprise if you want to have everything that Real Studio has to offer. To upgrade you just pay the difference.

And note that our pricing model will be changing starting with our next release (expected in the first half of 2013). You can read more about the pricing changes here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by codenewbie

D) Do you know of any real world examples of programs that were built in Real Studio?
I'd like to see what others are doing with your software, if possible.

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There are lots of apps in the Mac App Store created with Real Studio (I have several myself). Perhaps the most notable MAS app made with Real Studio is MacTracker. And of course, Real Studio itself (the IDE part) is written in Real Studio.

I hope this is helpful,

Thanks,

Paul Lefebvre
Developer Evangelist
Real Software, Inc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by codenewbie

Juacim -

Thanks for your input - and for catching my oversight.. I didnt notice that the web edition was ONLY for the web, and wasnt the professional edition with the web added. Bummer :)

I also noticed on that comparison chart that (under the professional edition) you can DEPLOY on the various platforms, but not DEVELOP on the various platforms... So I assume this means I have
to pick which OS I want to install and run Real Studio on, and wouldn't have the ability to download/run it on my various machines.....? Also a bummer.

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As Joacim also mentioned, the remote debugger greatly mitigates this problem.

And with the Enterprise Edition, you are allowed to run the IDE on any platforms you want. With the other editions you have to choose the platform when you purchase the license.

Thanks,

Paul Lefebvre
Developer Evangelist
Real Software, Inc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LogicalVue

And note that our pricing model will be changing starting with our next release (expected in the first half of 2013). You can read more about the pricing changes here.

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Wow, so basically the price for what you now get from the Pro edition goes up from $299 to $700 (Desktop + Console + DB), but you may develop on two machines that could be on two different platforms? That's a pretty steep increase.

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

Wow, so basically the price for what you now get from the Pro edition goes up from $299 to $700 (Desktop + Console + DB), but you may develop on two machines that could be on two different platforms? That's a pretty steep increase.

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It could be. For some the price goes up, for some the price goes down.

The new pricing redistributes the cost more fairly, we think. And the new free version will allow many more people to use Real Studio than ever before. So far, feedback has been mostly positive. And we are grandfathering in the current prices, so if you have a current license when the new version comes out, you'll get all the components you currently have.

Plus, we'll be unlocking all the IDE features. Currently there is some feature restrictions between editions (ContainerControls, SecureSockets, Profiler, Build Automation, perhaps others). And with the free version, you can run Real Studio on any number of machines you want.

Thanks,

Paul Lefebvre
Developer Evangelist
Real Software, Inc.

But in the free version you can only run your applications from the IDE right?

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

But in the free version you can only run your applications from the IDE right?

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Correct, the free version will be able to run your apps directly from the IDE (including using the remote debugger). You only need to purchase it when you are ready to create stand-alone apps.

Thanks,

Paul Lefebvre
Developer Evangelist
Real Software, Inc.