Protecting our site design or code

Hi guys,

If you have designed and coded a site and someone had stolen the HTML, CSS, Images of this site. What could be done as the original owner of that site/design/coding ?

I have found that, a guy had copied my bro's site's HTML,CSS, Images and only changed the top logo portion. The rest is shown as it is in the original site. So, how do we protect our intellectual property and take action if we found something like this ? The design, coding and everything is solely done by my bro.

Thank you

:wave:

Well, for the images you could add a watermark to them! I don't think there is a lot if anything that could be done for the other stuff though?

No I mean, how do we do the copyright of our product ?

What I have usually do is, include a sentence say "Copyright (c) CompanyName/PersonName Year". Actually when is it useful rather just as a label ?

Yes you could do that or if the person is just copying the source code have your details embedded within the code but somewhere that is not easy to spot such mixed in the look and feel, etc of the site so that the person copying the code can't find it just to remove it.

Edit:

You could try inserting dynamic content into the pages from other files! For example you code have a a text file that contains the text of the site then have a tag that loads that particular text in to a specific part of a web page. I have done this using flash but I don't know if it could work using php, ect?

First of all, if your brother's site has any real value then you should seek proper legal advice from a lawyer, don't rely on the half assed reposnses we're likely to give you. If, on the other hand, this is more a case of you brother being rightfully miffed at someone stealing his work but that work having no real value then I'd suggest a cricket mat to be a particularly effective measure.

What your brother can do about about it legally depends very much on the country he's in and the country the guy who nicked his source code is in but generally you don't need a copyright to defend intellectual material (although thye're very useful). You merely need to be able to prove that you created it and you did so before anyone else did. Essentially, all the copyright you put into your software really is is a timestamp and a warning to anyone else not to pinch it so they can't deny later that they knew you considered it your own intellectual property.

It's common practice in the music business (and I believe this happens in publishing as well) for people to post their work to themselves and then leave the envelope unopened. That's because the post office will time stamp the envelope so you can trivially prove later that you had created the work before that date. I'm not sure if you're aiming to prevent someone pinching your stuff or seek redress from someone who already has but if it's the former then this is quite a neat and convenient trick.

If your seeking redress then get some proper legal advice. Depending on the value of your brothers work you might want to go to a formal claims court or you might just want to pursue it through small claims court. Actually, just a threat that you're going to pursue it is likely to be enought to get them to take their site back down.

Thanks Funky :wave:

I thought there would be an easy way. Say, if we submit links of both sites along with the proof that the second site is a spoof of the first one. And the authorities would do warn or take necessary actions.

Going to court is something like asking a snail to participate in a race. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

Yes you could do that or if the person is just copying the source code have your details embedded within the code but somewhere that is not easy to spot such mixed in the look and feel, etc of the site so that the person copying the code can't find it just to remove it.

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Can you please cite an example ?

:wave:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akhileshbc

Can you please cite an example ?

:wave:

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You might try this.

Edit:

Also, I hope your brother has more sense than to put the css/html/etc within each page? Doing that would make it easier to copy not harder! I would use external css, javascript, etc.

If your brother doesn't mind throwing the rule book out the window try using iframes with @ import.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

You might try this.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

Yes you could do that or if the person is just copying the source code have your details embedded within the code but somewhere that is not easy to spot such mixed in the look and feel, etc of the site so that the person copying the code can't find it just to remove it.

Edit:

You could try inserting dynamic content into the pages from other files! For example you code have a a text file that contains the text of the site then have a tag that loads that particular text in to a specific part of a web page. I have done this using flash but I don't know if it could work using php, ect?

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:confused:

Add comments to the code check the source code of the forum for an idea of where to put the comments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

Add comments to the code check the source code of the forum for an idea of where to put the comments.

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You mean including comments are not easily spottable ?

Code:

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<html>
</head>.....</head>
<body>
  <div id="abc">
  ........

  <!-- Designed and code by Akhilesh.B.Chandran (www.akhileshbc.com) -->
  ....
  </div>
</body>
</html>

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Aren't it easy for the person to spot the text in plain format ?

:wave:

In the example NightWalker cited the user had interspersed the individual letters of the comment at various points in his code. So at a glance it would just look like a few random letters dotted around the page. But he could later demonstrate that those letters could be pulled together to make something meaningful.

All this is about ways of demonstrating that your code has been used which is a good first step. Whether that's by printing it off and mailing it to yourself, burying indicators in the code or putting a formal patent in it is largely academic. It's also pretty close to impossible if the guy stealing it is willing to spend a bit of time cleaning it up and re-arranging it a bit to look different.

But proving it's your code is largely irrelevant unless your willing to enforce it and the only ways of doing that are legal or physical... court or a cricket bat. I'd still go with the bat, myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

In the example NightWalker cited the user had interspersed the individual letters of the comment at various points in his code. So at a glance it would just look like a few random letters dotted around the page. But he could later demonstrate that those letters could be pulled together to make something meaningful.

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You are talking about the first solution in the question that NightWalker had given as link ? Pasted code: http://jsfiddle.net/e9SyD/

:wave:

I guess it is ultimately impossible to protect html or css because of the view source code feature built in to web browsers.

As noted, you automatically have copyright on any creative works you generate. Proving such a thing is a different story. Enforcing said copyright is currently almost impossible.

All the files for rendering in the browser need to be made available to the browser - as such, the client machine has all the files. Really, there's nothing you can do about that. However...a bit of javascript to get the page contents dynamically through an ajax call may render the 'view source' functionality useless...I've been playing around with ajax and have noted that dynamically rendered html doesn't show in the source...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SJWhiteley

I've been playing around with ajax and have noted that dynamically rendered html doesn't show in the source...

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It still confuses me as to why the creators of web browsers still make the view source window in a unlocked state (meaning anybody can copy/paste the html/css) rather than a locked state where you would not be able to copy/paste the code, only view it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SJWhiteley

All the files for rendering in the browser need to be made available to the browser - as such, the client machine has all the files. Really, there's nothing you can do about that. However...a bit of javascript to get the page contents dynamically through an ajax call may render the 'view source' functionality useless...I've been playing around with ajax and have noted that dynamically rendered html doesn't show in the source...

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Wouldn't it still be available if you goto Wrench button --> Developer Tools --> Network --> {select the AJAX page that you holler} --> Response tab, in Google Chrome ?

See the attached image.

Attachment 93179

The query returns an AJAX response. And the code is available if you check the response tab as in the above picture. It's an awesome tool for debugging purpose.

:wave:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akhileshbc

Wouldn't it still be available if you goto Wrench button --> Developer Tools --> Network --> {select the AJAX page that you holler} --> Response tab, in Google Chrome ?

See the attached image.

Attachment 93179

The query returns an AJAX response. And the code is available if you check the response tab as in the above picture. It's an awesome tool for debugging purpose.

:wave:

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That's true, but just like anything else, it'll only stop the most casual thief. Even if there were no tools built into the browser, it's not hard to read the rendered HTML. It just needs a few extra steps.

However, remember that the returned HTML from the ajax call is just that, static HTML. Any javascript and actual functionality is performed server-side, giving the HTML result. While the 'thief' only has the HTML, they don't have the functionality which created it. It all depends on what you are trying to do.

Protecting straight HTML is hard: but then, it's just HTML - not exactly rocket science, there. As I've found, don't put anything of worth on the internet that you don't want copied :)

You could also try a HTML obfuscator. Basically makes your HTML unreadable and harder to edit for personal use. There are also ones for javascript and PHP.

http://htmlobfuscator.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SJWhiteley

That's true, but just like anything else, it'll only stop the most casual thief. Even if there were no tools built into the browser, it's not hard to read the rendered HTML. It just needs a few extra steps.

However, remember that the returned HTML from the ajax call is just that, static HTML. Any javascript and actual functionality is performed server-side, giving the HTML result. While the 'thief' only has the HTML, they don't have the functionality which created it. It all depends on what you are trying to do.

Protecting straight HTML is hard: but then, it's just HTML - not exactly rocket science, there. As I've found, don't put anything of worth on the internet that you don't want copied :)

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Thanks :wave:

There would be a lot of jQuery usage in my next project. In short it's the core of my app. Only a few lines of PHP, basically the fetching of data from db and echoing it. So, I am planning to implement some protection levels for it. I don't want the app to be slow or cause any trouble/bugs to the user when they use it, as well as I don't want anyone copying the jQuery codes(not the library) and my own javascript functions. Here I have found that there are some people out here in my area, who just want to merely copy-paste the stuff and claim it to be theirs !

I have spent almost a month for the development of this new app. It isn't full time development though I spend a lot of time in jQuery, CSS and the designing. So, wouldn't it worth protecting it ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dclamp

You could also try a HTML obfuscator. Basically makes your HTML unreadable and harder to edit for personal use. There are also ones for javascript and PHP.

http://htmlobfuscator.com/

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Thanks :wave:

I was recently playing with it. Have tested with some pages and seems to be working. But I think it would take extra time for "decoding" at client's browser. I am planning to minify the CSS and Javascript and then gonna use this for my next project. Let's see what the outcome is. :)

Have you tried it in any of your projects and have any analysis of that obfuscator based on performance or bugs or anything else ? I haven't tested ofuscation of partial code. Have to do that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akhileshbc

Have you tried it in any of your projects and have any analysis of that obfuscator based on performance or bugs or anything else ? I haven't tested ofuscation of partial code. Have to do that.

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No I have not used it for any projects, have had no need. My projects are a mix of PHP, javascript, css and html plus SMARTY template markup. It would complicate things too much to use a obfuscator.

You can block the option to view source, been a long time since I have bothered with it so I can't remember exactly but it is just one line of code.

I only use dynamic pages so capturing the source from the browser is pretty useless for reproducing any site I have created, without the server side code which generates the HTML all you have is some static display.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DataMiser

You can block the option to view source, been a long time since I have bothered with it so I can't remember exactly but it is just one line of code.

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Interesting! I didn't know this, must find out how to accomplish this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DataMiser

You can block the option to view source, been a long time since I have bothered with it so I can't remember exactly but it is just one line of code.

I only use dynamic pages so capturing the source from the browser is pretty useless for reproducing any site I have created, without the server side code which generates the HTML all you have is some static display.

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You are talking about disabling right-click on pages isn't it ? Yeah we can do that via JavaScript. But it would still be accessible if the user goes to the menu level option. For example, in Chrome, it would be Wrench button --> Tools --> View Source

:wave: