Iraq-US conflict

[abdul]

Ok, I thought of putting this thread here because yahoo messageboard is hard to browse, and this one look pretty good.

So, what should be done to have peace and stop the US bombing on Iraq?

......

[scoutt]

kidnap saddam and put him in prison, so what's the difference on spending money to bomb him or hold him prison for life. nothing I see.

or we could just kill him.

[Beacon]

Assasinate Hussain and top iraqi leaders!

And/or World Wide embago's etc. so they cant make money and drop lots of bombs still!

Crpts exploding nimple plants should be ample!!



But on a serious note you could do 2 things:

1) Send in Kovans telling him Hussain wants is arse!
2) Tell Ian Sudam stole his sherry!

[scoutt]

I like the first one, I here ...... well never mind

[abdul]

Originally posted by scoutt
kidnap saddam and put him in prison, so what's the difference on spending money to bomb him or hold him prison for life. nothing I see.

or we could just kill him.

wooo...that is just a straight answer!

---------

I don't think that America would live long by killing Sadam or Attacking on Iraq. Why does America get involve in other countries and creates a "war-like" situation?
I think that American troops should go home and get out of other countries if they want peace

[scoutt]

Originally posted by abdul


wooo...that is just a straight answer!

---------

I don't think that America would live long by killing Sadam or Attacking on Iraq. Why does America get involve in other countries and creates a "war-like" situation?
I think that American troops should go home and get out of other countries if they want peace

i have been asking that same question myself. why is it always us. but someone told me that the UN likes us to do that since we have the money and man power.

live long if we attack Iraq, hell other countries will pay us to do it, if we went to war Iraq can't defend itself against us or Russia, if they still are on our side.

[Muddy]

Originally posted by abdul


wooo...that is just a straight answer!

---------

I don't think that America would live long by killing Sadam or Attacking on Iraq. Why does America get involve in other countries and creates a "war-like" situation?
I think that American troops should go home and get out of other countries if they want peace

wouldnt the better question be "why is Saadam attacking his own people?"
Do you honestly think that the US created the war like situation in the middle east? cmon!

[nishantp]

the other side to that situation is that Hussein isnt affecting the US, so why should they care? Thats what abdul is arguing. of course i agree that he is a mad man.

[Muddy]

but to say that the US created the "war like" situtation is comical.

[abdul]

That is true that America is the problem because the Attack on Kwait was 10 years ago, and even if American, British planes have set a no-fly zone then now it should not be there. America is saying that it is bombing Iraqi targets because she upgraded its Defence force. Are not they allowed to do this or what? Every country has a right to upgrade or do whatever to its force if it is not effecting on any other country. But America just likes fighting...

[aknisely]

That is true that America is the problem because the Attack on Kwait was 10 years ago, and even if American, British planes have set a no-fly zone then now it should not be there.

The no-fly zone would end if Iraq would reduce its aggressive state. The no-fly zone exists to protect people and surrounding countries from aggressive warfare similar to that in the gulf war.

America is saying that it is bombing Iraqi targets because she upgraded its Defence force. Are not they allowed to do this or what?

No, they aren't. Nowadays, military forces are a privilage. If you abuse that privilage and use your force irresponsibly, you will lose the privilage of having a military.

Every country has a right to upgrade or do whatever to its force if it is not effecting on any other country.

Is it really that simple for you? "As long as it doesn't hurt anyone." We learned some hard lessons about that in Europe in the last century. A reactive position does not prevent war. We need proactive solutions to modern military conflict.

But America just likes fighting...

Is that right? Hundreds of thousands of Americans, and tens of millions of others died during the bloodiest century in human history. If you think that we (not just Americans) fight because it's fun, you have to give your head a shake and re-think a few things.

[scoutt]

Originally posted by abdul
America is saying that it is bombing Iraqi targets because she upgraded its Defence force. Are not they allowed to do this or what?

No they can't. that was one of the stipulations for peace 10 years ago. if I remember correctly.

[abdul]

But why would you bomb Iraq if it is not doing anything to other neighbour countries?

[Beacon]

I'm with aknisely on this one!

abdul:
"I don't think that America would live long by killing Sadam or Attacking on Iraq. Why does America get involve in other countries and creates a "war-like" situation? "

America and the allies believe strongly in the free world free of communism and the right of countries not to be taken over by another etc.
That is why american entered the war against Iraq because Kuwait was a "friendly" nation where as Iraq wanted to take over kuwait!

The bigger issue is that Iraq qanted to take kuwait becuase it would control some ridiculous percentage of the worlds Oil supply. And could then become a controlling nation and sudam saw it very extravagantly "take control of worlds oil, world needs oil, will submit to my requests will be all conquering."
Naturally the us and other didnt like this idea and thought screw that hippy if he envades kuwait he's f__ked.
And so goes on.
Now it's progressed to a stage where Sudam Insane it's friggin nuts and the reason the US and others wont leave Iraq alone is the threat of iraq launching Nukes and bacterial warfare against the world!
Which is fair enough! They have good reason for it. With sudam not allowing UN inspectors etc. in. And shooting at planes etc.

The reason for the recent bombings is becuase Iraq was shooting a planes patrolling the no-fly zone!

Either Iraq is really f__king stupid and have the impitimy of stupidness controlling the nation or they need to get drunk and score a root!

[aknisely]

Originally posted by abdul
But why would you bomb Iraq if it is not doing anything to other neighbour countries?

What do neighbouring countries have to do with it? There are rules set out, you either obey them or you suffer the consequences thereof.

[Beacon]

"But why would you bomb Iraq if it is not doing anything to other neighbour countries?"

Put it this way abdul. If you were sitting next to a guy with a gun and he was staring at your and making gestures like he was gonna shoot you and others and you had a ak47:

Would you:

a) Run away and leave the others to get shot
b) Shoot him first.
c) Join him in killing everyone else
d) Ask him nicely to dont do it but if he does oh well.
e) Ask him nicely not to do it then blow the s h i t out of him if he does!

Now say you've slected (D) and he's still alive he's shot 3-4 people he's reaching for the gun again picking it up pointing it at you and others.
Which option do you choose again!

[abdul]

That was a good example but Iraq is not staring or it is no suddenly gonna attack on its neighbour countries now. it is recently made good relationships with the countries like Jordan, Syria... I believe that it was Iraq's fault to attack on Kwait but it was past..now, I America should stop bombing on Iraq because ,as I said, Iraq is not attacking on any of the muslim coutries around it. It now think that US should get out no-fly zone and leave them where they are...Iraq also got Israel as an enemy!

I don't why is UN is so stupid but in my opinion UN = US

Q: Why does UN wants to inspect the weapons of Iraq
A: Because it think that Iraq has neuclear and dangerous weapons

Well, what about US? You will probably say that US does not attack if it has these neuclear bombs, weapons, and the other dangerous weapons than any country in the world. Then why did it attack on Afghanistan (just for Osama??) and Pakistan (which it just think that it helps Afghanistan) It also tested its atomic bomb on Japan...which no other country has done. Now why does not UN put the restrictions of US that it create atomic bomb and recently, it announced on creating missile defence system?

Shame on America;D

[abdul]

That was a good example but Iraq is not staring or it is no suddenly gonna attack on its neighbour countries now. it is recently made good relationships with the countries like Jordan, Syria... I believe that it was Iraq's fault to attack on Kwait but it was past..now, I America should stop bombing on Iraq because ,as I said, Iraq is not attacking on any of the muslim coutries around it. It now think that US should get out no-fly zone and leave them where they are...Iraq also got Israel as an enemy!

I don't why is UN is so stupid but in my opinion UN = US

Q: Why does UN wants to inspect the weapons of Iraq
A: Because it think that Iraq has neuclear and dangerous weapons

Well, what about US? You will probably say that US does not attack if it has these neuclear bombs, weapons, and the other dangerous weapons than any country in the world. Then why did it attack on Afghanistan (just for Osama??) and Pakistan (which it just think that it helps Afghanistan) It also tested its atomic bomb on Japan...which no other country has done. Now why does not UN put the restrictions of US that it create atomic bomb and recently, it announced on creating missile defence system?

Shame on America

[aknisely]

That was a good example but Iraq is not staring or it is no suddenly gonna attack on its neighbour countries now.it is recently made good relationships with the countries like Jordan, Syria... I believe that it was Iraq's fault to attack on Kwait but it was past

How the hell can you say something so ignorant? THE SAME DAMNED THING WAS SAID 60 YEARS AGO! More than fifty million people DIED as a result of the world's ignorance. Have you learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from their deaths?

..now, I America should stop bombing on Iraq because ,as I said, Iraq is not attacking on any of the muslim coutries around it. It now think that US should get out no-fly zone and leave them where they are...Iraq also got Israel as an enemy!

As far as I know, the United States hasn't taken any such action against Iraq recently.

I don't why is UN is so stupid but in my opinion UN = US

Yeah. To hell with those people who feed the starving, heal the sick, and protect the innocent. They're just too stupid.

Q: Why does UN wants to inspect the weapons of Iraq
A: Because it think that Iraq has neuclear and dangerous weapons

If Iraq doesn't, then Iraq has nothing to hide.

Well, what about US? You will probably say that US does not attack if it has these neuclear bombs, weapons, and the other dangerous weapons than any country in the world.

The United States does not use weapons of mass destruction. It doesn't bomb cities, it doesn't slaughter children or burn hospitals. It does not threaten the use of poison, chemicals, bacteria, illness, or war for political gain. The United States has discipline; Iraq does not.

It also tested its atomic bomb on Japan...which no other country has done.

The nuclear bombs dropped in Japan were after five long, bloody years of war. The war had ended in Europe; it was time to end in Japan.

Now why does not UN put the restrictions of US that it create atomic bomb and recently, it announced on creating missile defence system?

The United States does not threaten other countries with its defense system or atomic bombs.

Shame on America;D

Yeah, I always hated the land of the free.

[Beacon]

"That was a good example but Iraq is not staring or it is no suddenly gonna attack on its neighbour countries now. it is recently made good relationships with the countries like Jordan, Syria... I believe that it was Iraq's fault to attack on Kwait but it was past..now, I America should stop bombing on Iraq because ,as I said, Iraq is not attacking on any of the muslim coutries around it. It now think that US should get out no-fly zone and leave them where they are...Iraq also got Israel as an enemy! "

Are you on drugs sunshine???? This is a country who invaded another for what POWER and too hold most of the world to it's orders! Why not just let it go hey in fact.
We'll also raise hitler from the dead and make everyone jews!
Sounds like a f u c k ing great idea hey?

You miss the point. It's not the fact that it isnt attacking neighboors right now it's the fact that it could attack FREE country's not cotrolled by a Idiotic Dictator!
Look at Japan since WW2 they have not been allowed to have an millatary force albiet a very very small simple one!
You dont see them complaining what the rest of the world has agreed to?

"I don't why is UN is so stupid but in my opinion UN = US "

If you knew even a little you'd no the following.
UN is made up several nations, like over 100, that meet and discuss several things ranging from security issues to Human Rights. There are i think 3 Super Powers they are USA, Russia and Britain(i think) that means they have a bigger vote than say Uganda. But still a large majority not just 50% have to agree to what the UN does!
Also the Secretary General is African not American.

It also tested its atomic bomb on Japan...which no other country has done.

*cough* bull**** *cough*
Britain tested atomic weapons in Australia precisely a group of island in NW WA!
Killed lots of soldiers as well!
Just as an example!
And it didnt test them it wasnt a test at all. The tests where conducted at home on US Soil they new that they were going to blow they crap out of japan but japan attacked Pearl Harbour first remeber.
Get what you give!

Now why does not UN put the restrictions of US that it create atomic bomb and recently, it announced on creating missile defence system?

The UN does inspections of all Nuclear Armed Nations. It doesnt stop anyone from making them but i believe that the us etc. havent made many new nukes for ages.

I just hope you dont go strapping yourself to a bomb in the US embassy abdul!!

aknisely:
America and the allies bombed iraq last week! Destroying Anti-aircraft bases!

[simonm]

Iraq also got Israel as an enemy!

And why exactly are Isreal regarded as an enemy of Iraq? Something to do with Iraq sending every skud missile it had against Isreal during the gulf conflict perhaps. A misguided attempt to escalate the war to involve all countries in the middle east. Sadam wanted to start a jihad.

And this isn't enough reason never to let Iraq arm itself with nuclear/biological weapons with Sadam in charge?

[Cander]

Abdul if you really think Saddam wants peace, you are nothing more than a brainwashed sheep. He has said many times out right of paying bonuses to soldiers for shooting down allied planes. Oh yeah sounds really peaceful doesnt it? BS!

The UN is trying to keep Saddam from attempting what he did before, which he would do again, the moment he got the chance by destroying targets being built up alone the no-fly zone with the sole purpose of trying to collect a 'bounty' on UN planes.

[kovan]

oh m gawd buncha fools here trying to figure out why iraq and us are at conflict

i feel that i know more about this issue that ANYONE that has posted in this thread
cus i was THERE

so going on

Saddam and US have ALWAYS been friends
almost every weapon saddam own is US made, and given by US
the few that are not US made are given by RUSSIA

Saddam does NOT want peace
and use is NOT inforcing a no fly zone because saddam is not playing by the rules
they are there for the oil, they have always been there for the oil

rumor had it that infact it was saddam that wanted the sanction for personal reasons such as the iraqi army was getting to strong and it needed to be brought back into control

Saddam hates everyone
including his OWN kind
so why should he give a shiat about the jews, americans, europeans and so on
he sent a dozen of scuds towards israel which i believe did little damage,
but is anyone here aware of the 1988 take over of the north iraq (Kurdish Zone)
and used gas bombs that killed every living thing insite
as well as the 1990-1991 which then became the gulf war


Beacon - i am sorry to tell you but 90% of what you said doesnt make sense

let me quote one

America and the allies believe strongly in the free world free of communism and the right of countries not to be taken over by another etc.
That is why american entered the war against Iraq because Kuwait was a "friendly" nation where as Iraq wanted to take over kuwait!

you actually think that?


enough about this non sense
to wrap this up

Saddam doesnt want peace
He hates ALL kinds, including his own (the suffering of the sanction is one which is killing thousands by the day)
He is friend of US, always has been, always will be til he dies
and no,he is NOT trying to start any jihad, so his motives have nothign to do with Islam
10 year old war againts iran is one example
30+ year war againts the Kurds is another
Taking over Kuwait is another

US doesnt care about kuwaities, kurds and anyone else in that region accept jews
so what ever they do to saddam
its either for the oil, or for jews

I am done
and Beacon... i thought you could think

[Ianpbaker]

Originally posted by Beacon

2) Tell Ian Sudam stole his sherry!

Nobody Touch's de' Sherry

[kovan]

ha ha ha
Ian, you will protect and defend the sherry with your life wont you?

[Ianpbaker]

well your culture die's for it's religion, I'd quite happily die for my alcahol.

[kovan]

my opinion on death
if you die for something you GREATLY believe in
then death is part of fullfilling your life

so if you die for your alcohol, then my friend
you should be recognized world wide as a great man

[simonm]

Kovan

and no,he is NOT trying to start any jihad, so his motives have nothign to do with Islam

Why do you think he was sending missiles at Israel? As you yourself said, they did very little damage. They were designed purely to enrage Israel to such a state that they would retaliate against Iraq, thereby disrupting the American/Arabic alliance. Sadam hoped that if Israel joined in, the arab countries (who were currently supporting NATO) would change sides, and join the war against Israel.

He was hoping to incite a holy war against the west. I'm not saying that he had the concerns of Islam close to his heart, far from it, he was trying to play upon the already existing tensions in the region to his own ends.

He is friend of US, always has been, always will be til he dies

That's not true anymore is it? Iraq may have been supported buy the US prior to the gulf conflict but that all changed after he invaded Kwait.

[aknisely]

Originally posted by simonm
Why do you think he was sending missiles at Israel? As you yourself said, they did very little damage.

That "very little damage" was probably the bloodiest attack during the war.

[barrk]

Sadaam claims he is fighting a "holy war" or jihad in the name of his religion too! He uses it as a weapon to dupe his country men into believing the tripe he spews! He wanted the oil and land in Kuwait, the British and US were Kuwait's allies, we came to help and stop Sadamm from gaining more power and influence in the region at the request of Saudi Arabia and Israel and Kuwait. We also stop him from killing the Northern Kurds.....all to uphold our alliance with the above mentioned countries. It is in our best interest for someone so evil NOT to have the oil and land (power). We rely on the oil from that region, our allies rely on us for protection. It is definitely not as abdul believes. The blind sheep mentality is frightening enough but when the sheep start bleeting the type of garbage that abdul is.....without even being bothered by fact....that is horrifying!!!!!!

[kovan]

Why do you think he was sending missiles at Israel? As you yourself said, they did very little damage. They were designed purely to enrage Israel to such a state that they would retaliate against Iraq, thereby disrupting the American/Arabic alliance. Sadam hoped that if Israel joined in, the arab countries (who were currently supporting NATO) would change sides, and join the war against Israel.

as i said before, saddam hates everyone, including jews, especially the jews, and this has nothign to do with Islam
maybe he thougth he could fool everyone to believe he is doing it for Islam, but thsi could not be covered up his wars againts Iran (whome are almost 100% muslims)
Kuwaties (whome are almost 100% muslims)
Kurds (whome are 80%+ muslims)
and the minority muslims in south iraq who he is trying to wipe out

as i said before, this has nothing to do with Islam, as he is PURELY anti-Islam (him and his Baath Party)
biggest threat to him in middle east is Israel (because of US backing)
he want to destroy it,(NOT for islam) but for personal reasons
so that when israel is gone, it can just finish of the rest of the countries in middle east

That's not true anymore is it? Iraq may have been supported buy the US prior to the gulf conflict but that all changed after he invaded Kwait.

may? you out to re think that
because EVERYTHING saddam had was given to him by the US to defeat Iran

I remember, i was like 8
these HUGE tanks and misscle launchers would be droven down the streets to the army bases near the Iranian border
and because we were in the middle of Iran and Iraq war
we would see iraqi planes fly over us all the time
and they were US made
i believe they were F-16, i could be wrong on that though

When Saddam took over Kuwait, US saw a bigger oppurtonity for more oil
and they got LOTS

[simonm]

aknisely

That "very little damage" was probably the bloodiest attack during the war.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to trivialise the damage caused by Iraq's bombardment of Israel of skud missiles.

The point I was trying to make, however, is that the missile attacks were not a serious attempt to damage Israel in itself. They were designed to lure Israel into the conflict.

[kovan]

Originally posted by barrk
Sadaam claims he is fighting a "holy war" or jihad in the name of his religion too! He uses it as a weapon to dupe his country men into believing the tripe he spews! He wanted the oil and land in Kuwait, the British and US were Kuwait's allies, we came to help and stop Sadamm from gaining more power and influence in the region at the request of Saudi Arabia and Israel and Kuwait. We also stop him from killing the Northern Kurds.....all to uphold our alliance with the above mentioned countries. It is in our best interest for someone so evil NOT to have the oil and land (power). We rely on the oil from that region, our allies rely on us for protection. It is definitely not as abdul believes. The blind sheep mentality is frightening enough but when the sheep start bleeting the type of garbage that abdul is.....without even being bothered by fact....that is horrifying!!!!!!

its ALL about the Oil
US and neither their allies give a rats arse about anyone
but if they get Oil, they will provide protection

[aknisely]

Originally posted by simonm
The point I was trying to make, however, is that the missile attacks were not a serious attempt to damage Israel in itself. They were designed to lure Israel into the conflict.

Perhaps. It's difficult to asertain the motives of religious fools.

[simonm]

Kovan

as i said before, saddam hates everyone, including jews, especially the jews, and this has nothign to do with Islam

Look, we're not suggesting for a moment that Iraq represents Islam (or Islamic beliefs). Don't get all defensive over it.

And you can't honestly think that Iraq's missile attacks on Israel were seriously about defeating Israel? Why would he try to start a war with Israel with NATO troops storming across the desert towards Bagdad?

[aknisely]

Originally posted by kovan
its ALL about the Oil
US and neither their allies give a rats arse about anyone
but if they get Oil, they will provide protection

That's a bonus. What did we "get" from Yugoslavia? Or Somalia? We only help people that can pay us, right, because we don't "give a rats ass about anyone."

[kovan]

Originally posted by aknisely
Perhaps. It's difficult to asertain the motives of religious fools.

again, Islam gets blamed for a fool
i guess those missles didnt do ENOUGH damage
maybe few others will help
and be prepared, because he WILL send few more
you can blame Islam for it or you can blame Saddam
but they Israel will present more, and this time they will not the scud missles

[kovan]

Originally posted by aknisely
That's a bonus. What did we "get" from Yugoslavia? Or Somalia? We only help people that can pay us, right, because we don't "give a rats ass about anyone."

what did you get out of yugoslavia?
you removed a dictator, a threat to US
what more do you want?
somalia?
what?

[barrk]

When Saddam took over Kuwait, US saw a bigger oppurtonity for more oil and they got LOTS

The oil in that region is now, was then and will always be controlled by OPEC. How do you figure we "got LOTS"???

The US and British have alliance with the countries over there we are defending. We made the alliances due to the oil (which is power). The industrial nations need oil in order to thrive. That is a fact that cannot be overlooked. Would you want us to not live up to our alliances and therefore cut ourselves off from the oil?
Any country makes alliances that in their own best interests regardless of what you think. It is not an evil thing...it is reality!

[kovan]

Originally posted by simonm
Kovan

Look, we're not suggesting for a moment that Iraq represents Islam (or Islamic beliefs). Don't get all defensive over it.

And you can't honestly think that Iraq's missile attacks on Israel were seriously about defeating Israel? Why would he try to start a war with Israel with NATO troops storming across the desert towards Bagdad?

i agree, saddam wants israel in war
i never disagreed on that
and no those missles were not to "destroy" israel
i believe there were total of only 3 dozens

but saddam wants israel OUT, first it has to get it into the war
so it can destroy it, and israel is NO match for saddam without US

but to say this is "jihad" related
is absolutely wrong, because no one believes his "jihad" motives due to what he has done to muslims