Boycot XP due to security? [Archive]

Guv

Apr 27th, 2001, 10:09 PM

Did you know that Microsoft is planning some anti-piracy scheme for XP?

As I understand it, when you install this OS you must register it or it ceases to function in a few weeks. When you register, Microsoft creates some Security Key based on your system configuration.

If you try to install on another system, you must again register at which time Microsoft knows you are installing on a new system. Perhaps you could beat this scheme by having an exact clone of your original machine. Perhaps not. I do not think that copying an image of your hard drive to the new system would work, but who knows?

The nasty problem comes when you decide to install a bigger or a second hard drive. Or perhaps you decide to replace your Graphics Display Adapter. You will need permission from Microsoft because the change in your hardware will look to the OS like it is on a different system.

I happen to have two systems and two legitimate copies of Windows 98 SE, but this is due to special circumstances. Normally, I would use the same OS on both systems. I have a friend with 3 systems: His and one for each of his children. What a pain if he had to buy two extra copies of the OS, or have his kids with a different OS than his.

I wonder if a boycott would have any effect? I wonder if enough consumer resistance would make Microsoft change its mind about this scheme?

After all, they want to sell as many copies as possible. Most business users would pay for multiple copies if if there was no such anti-piracy scheme. It is the home users who do not pay for multiple licenses.

Personally, I will stick to Windows 98 as long as possible to avoid dealing with a different OS on two systems or the expense of paying for the extra copy of XP.

At least for a while, they will sell zero copies to me instead of two copies. I think they would rather have one sale than none. If enough people have my attitude, they might relent. Who knows?

scoutt

Apr 27th, 2001, 11:00 PM

also don't forget that if windows crashes (and it will) and you end up haveing to reformat again you will need to re-register it. same goes with a virus and you had to reformat. I won't be buying any XPs

scoutt

Guv

Apr 28th, 2001, 01:34 AM

Scoutt: I do not think it is that bad. I would expect to be able to register a second time on the same system.

They create an encoded hardware profile, which identifies your system congiguration. This allows them to recognize the difference between installing on a second system and reinstalling on the same system.

Unfortunately, it will not recognize your system if you change or add a hard drive or make some other hardware change. It might create a problem if you merely repartition your hard drives, but I hope not.

chrisjk

Apr 28th, 2001, 05:02 AM

I think it's a *****in' outrage. If they actually implement this, I am going no higher than Win2k (i've got 5 machines to look after!!). Watch MS crash and burn is what I say. Lets start a campain!!

Chant: "Don't buy XP, Don't buy XP"

zmerlinz

Apr 28th, 2001, 05:29 AM

That is why i am moving over to Linux, it is much better, i am sure that some hackers/crackers somewhere will make some sort of crack file to bypass this, i know that Office XP does the same and we have managed to get a copy of Office XP that doesn't have this system check in it. But i am fed up of Microsoft doing things like this, i hope that they will shoot themselves in the foot with this idea and they actually make a loss. I currently have ME on my machine and Linux and once i get my new drive there will be no reason to keep windows on my other drive all i will need it to do is be a dos partition and keep VB6 on it so that i can run it within linux (using a program called wine) so if they carry on this way it most certianly will be bye bye Microsoft, oh and i don't need an Office suite as i have Star office and it opens all microsoft documents like excel and word, so i am not bothered, i might even go back to 3.1 :D

So Linux here we come :)

zmerlinz

Apr 28th, 2001, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by chrisjk
Chant: "Don't buy XP, Don't buy XP"

is that coing from you or your paper clip :)

chrisjk

Apr 28th, 2001, 06:04 AM

:D :D The paperclip. I told it to stop speaking in my posts, but will he listen!!

scoutt

Apr 28th, 2001, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by GuvScoutt: I do not think it is that bad
It may not be, but that is what I read on an article on Zdnet a couple of months ago. Things may have changed since then.

Scoutt

Kzin

Apr 28th, 2001, 01:55 PM

First I should say that I don't think that people who chose the "I do not intend to ever use XP." option are being realistic - most of us are forced to use or develop for whatever the prevalent OS is by our institutions, customers, clients, bosses or because of market forces - so for most of us that level of free will simply does not exist:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Guv
Scoutt: I do not think it is that bad. I would expect to be able to register a second time on the same system.

They create an encoded hardware profile, which identifies your system congiguration. This allows them to recognize the difference between installing on a second system and reinstalling on the same system.

Unfortunately, it will not recognize your system if you change or add a hard drive or make some other hardware change. It might create a problem if you merely repartition your hard drives, but I hope not.

In their official announcements Microsoft say they you will have to phone them if you make a system change and they say that they will assess the validity of you case on a customer-by-customer basis.

BTW - have you ever tried phoning Microsoft? Its going to be a lot easier and cheaper to buy a new copy of XP every time you add a Zip drive or whatever than to get through.

zmerlinz

Apr 28th, 2001, 02:11 PM

i hope that when and if you ring microsoft that you don't have to pay for the phone call, as this would really take this p*ss.

scoutt

Apr 28th, 2001, 03:10 PM

I was told by a respected teacher that I had that when Microsoft gets done with win2000 or winMe or newer versions that htey will try to force us to make the change to it. this being that if you can't get upgrades or software you get won't run on your current version then you will have no choice. I had to upgrade my computer the last couple of months because my motherboard went out, and I found out that all the stuff I had was so outdated that I had no choice to pretty much buy a whole new computer. That goes with the money thing that Kzin said. people that are not as or don't have that much money are out of luck if they had to upgrade. I like the fact that technology is getting better but when something is no longer supported then the consumer must pay.

as Chris would say

Chant: "Don't buy XP, Don't buy XP"

Scoutt

chrisjk

Apr 28th, 2001, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Kzin
In their official announcements Microsoft say they you will have to phone them if you make a system change and they say that they will assess the validity of you case on a customer-by-customer basisThat is ****ing outrage!!!! I won't ask their permission to do something with my own ****ing machine. Where the hell do they get off???? "Please let me continue using your operating system WHICH I ****ING PAID FOR." No way, MS are going down for this.

billfaceuk

Apr 28th, 2001, 04:12 PM

~The moral of the story is I don't give a damn

You can't be ceratin it's gonna be crap. You never know what Microsoft have up their sleeves. I mean you may all hate good ol' Bill but how many could do a job as fine as his?

P.S. When i talk about *Bill* i mean Bill Gates...not me :p

kedaman

Apr 28th, 2001, 05:34 PM

I'm running the beta and i can say it's an awesome operative system.

parksie

Apr 28th, 2001, 05:56 PM

I don't doubt for one minute that it's not good, but I really think it's totally inappropriate for MS to do something like this. Anti-piracy: fine. But once it starts getting in the way of legitimate users, then they can go f**k themselves.

Remember what happened to dongles? Effective, but bloody annoying. Result? No more dongles...

kedaman

Apr 28th, 2001, 06:14 PM

well you can't feel a satisfaction of using any other windows, not even 2k. Either they are slow, crashes, or use a lot of memory, but XP does none and still keeps a great interface and has tons of features.
I guess it's a bit off topic, so i'd say if this hurts as much as it looks, microsoft has you, because XP is going to be the OS

<! --

Apr 28th, 2001, 06:33 PM

you're saying the beta version of XP is better (in terms of reliability) than Win98? Wow that ha got to be good. It could just mean they haven't had enough time to program in all the bugs thou :D

parksie

Apr 28th, 2001, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by <! --
you're saying the beta version of XP is better (in terms of reliability) than Win98? Wow that ha got to be good. It could just mean they haven't had enough time to program in all the bugs thou :D Well, they can give it to me and I'll destabilise it a bit for them :p

kedaman

Apr 28th, 2001, 06:37 PM

that must be it, it's just the beta :p IE 6 had one or two bugs though, but does that count to xp?

My friend joked about this while i was installing, that if i pressed alt esc, it would show w2k

kedaman

Apr 28th, 2001, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by parksie
Well, they can give it to me and I'll destabilise it a bit for them :p
yep, if micrsoft get's out of shape and debugs too much, we need parksie to enbug it

SurfDemon

Apr 28th, 2001, 11:07 PM

Can anyone find the original press release that this story came from?

I doubt it would ever work in a large company as one image is installed on thousands of different computers and the license pack is just a collection of 100's of licenses. No company is going to sit down and register 1,000 computer keys, and if the OS stopped working the IT department would be shot. Thats why I'd like to read the full story to see what the facts are.

I've been hunting for it and can't find. If anyone could post it here so I can read it myself I would be very grateful.

Thanks in advance,

SD

SurfDemon

Apr 28th, 2001, 11:34 PM

I've found the following article

http://www.microsoft.com/DirectAccess/PartnerGuide/officexp/salesmarket/activewizard.asp

but it only relates to Office XP. (and corporate users don't have to comply). It also mentions that no information is sent to Microsoft which seems a bit daft, 'cause how would they know if you're using it legitametly or not ??? I must be missing something there.

Either way, Office doesn't bother me as I only ever use word, and the features I use are so limited that I could still be using Word 2.0 for all the difference it would make. Therefore I won'tbe upgrading from Office 97 (Which I bought years ago and has done me proud!).

I can't see any mention of the OS being protected in such a manner. Can anyone find this story?

SD

scoutt

Apr 29th, 2001, 12:09 AM

Last time I read that the XP is only geared for home based computers. is wasn't designed to be in the office environment, that is for win2k, but like I said I read that a couple of months ago.

Scoutt

scoutt

Apr 29th, 2001, 12:15 AM

I found this article from Zdnet

http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2685543,00.html
Scoutt

Kzin

Apr 30th, 2001, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by scoutt
I found this article from Zdnet

http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2685543,00.html
Scoutt

I notice that this is a report from the official a special sneak preview where they semm to be playing down our concerns (i.e. not telling anyone about them ;) )

This next bit looks like fun for crackers now that there are a reasonable number of permanent connected home machines :(

No. 5. Remote support is built into Windows XP. This will be a boon to people--like me and probably you--who get called upon to solve other people's problems. You'll be able to log onto their machines over the network or Internet and fix the problem. No more, "Now, Dad, click the Start button and open the Control Panel."

While testing the Windows 95 M8 beta I discovered dozens of unprotected machines in labs all over the University network . whose hard disks and shared facilities were open to access without passwords needed. These were mainly people's personal desktop machines that had not been correctly set up - admittedly security is probably more sophisticated now but the number of machines out there with 'standard' passwords is still going to be high.

kedaman

Apr 30th, 2001, 06:16 AM

What about those who're not connected to any kind of network?

Technocrat

Apr 30th, 2001, 10:10 AM

I take it none of you have purchased Office 2000 any time recently. All versions that were duped starting Jan 1, 2001 all require you to register your CD Key with 60 days or it will stop working. As far as I know there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Also this is Microsofts new anti-pirate practice. Keeping that in mind do you think that Office XP, or .NET will not have this feature? I am sorry to say this but you guys better get used to the idea, its not going to go away.

SurfDemon

Apr 30th, 2001, 11:47 AM

mmm, I don't know. There is so much money at stake that somebody will find a way around it. All they will end up doing is p*ssing off legitimate users.

I buy all my major software that I use, but I never register it. I don't like anyone holding information about me. I even refuse to register at FutureShop when I buy goods. They claim it's for the warranty, I tell them thats what the serial number is for. You should see the look on their faces when they say "Could I have your phone number?".
"No".
"Err, okay then... er I can't log it into the system without a phone number."
"Make one up"
"Er, I can't do that."
"Fine. I'll take my cash elsewhere"
"Er, just one minute..."

It doesn't bother me, like I already said I won't upgrade Office, and I'm sure there will be others in the same boat.

If they require me to register the OS, than thats a different matter, I will go out of my way to piss them off as I typically buy one major new component every month. If they want to play silly buggers with me I'll do the same to them. Hell, for a laugh I might even bill them for lost production time if it gets out of hand.

Remember Intel's attempt to put unique ID's on their chips. That got dropped pretty quickly. I suspect the same thing may happen here.

SD

Jareware

Apr 30th, 2001, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Technocrat
I am sorry to say this but you guys better get used to the idea, its not going to go away. I know. As much as we would hate (and do something about) the idea of those bastards monitoring our computers and making us hang on the phone for an hour every time we install a zip drive (or something), there still is the 99% of the computer-using population of this planet who simply won't be able to resist the change. I myself don't doubt the performance of XP as an OS. What pisses me off is that if I think that their product is full of crap (like the registration thingy we've been talking about), there still really is no other choice for me than to upgrade to it, sooner or (/than) later.

They are experts at stuffing ***** down our throats and making us like it - they have done it before and will do it again.

-JR-

scoutt

Apr 30th, 2001, 07:54 PM

Windows XP won't support USB 2.0 But instead it uses Firewire.
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-5558916.html?tag=tp_pr

also XP will limit the MP3's you have and what you do with them.

look here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1284000/1284054.stm)

just a little more to p**s you off.

chrisjk

Apr 30th, 2001, 08:11 PM

without prejudice
BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT AN ARSEHOLE GATES IS. THEY'RE MY ****ING MP3's - I WILL DO WHAT I LIKE WITH THEM. YOU GO TO HELL GATES; YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE
I'd just like to add that is a quote from South Park. but the idealology applies.

Jareware

Apr 30th, 2001, 08:23 PM

You couldn't word it better, chrisjk.

And as we read in the article someone posted a link to previously:Windows media player is to Windows XP what Internet Explorer was to Windows 98This is where they step over the line big time. Unless I am mistaken, Microsoft is right now being tried for stuff exactly like this, and our friend Billy Boy just keeps the same crap going. AND NO-ONE DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!

Shouldn't the US have an authority for giving a punishment to such abuse of market? The Justice Department, was it?

-JR-

JoshT

May 1st, 2001, 10:58 AM

I think all us VB programmers should learn a language or two that'll run on *nix to be on the safe side.

zmerlinz

May 1st, 2001, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by JoshT
I think all us VB programmers should learn a language or two that'll run on *nix to be on the safe side.

you mean like c, c++, pearl, asm, java there are still loads out there that don't need Micro$haft

Kzin

May 1st, 2001, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Jareware
Unless I am mistaken, Microsoft is right now being tried for stuff exactly like this, and our friend Billy Boy just keeps the same crap going. AND NO-ONE DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!

I though he bought himself a President to take the heat off a bit

Originally posted by Jareware

Shouldn't the US have an authority for giving a punishment to such abuse of market? The Justice Department, was it?
-JR-

Wired also reported that almost everyone on the Justice Department side involved in the case is suddenly looking for a job and finding no-one dares to hire them:(

kedaman

May 1st, 2001, 04:39 PM

i have bladeenc if anyone needs it.

Kzin

May 1st, 2001, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by kedaman
i have bladeenc if anyone needs it.

??:confused:

parksie

May 1st, 2001, 04:56 PM

Free MP3 encoder that I use :)

kedaman

May 1st, 2001, 05:00 PM

cool thing if you don't want upcoming M$ ones. Winamp is good too, for playing mp3's they don't depend on M$ related codecs :)

Kzin

May 1st, 2001, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by billfaceuk
~The moral of the story is I don't give a damn

You can't be ceratin it's gonna be crap. You never know what Microsoft have up their sleeves. I mean you may all hate good ol' Bill but how many could do a job as fine as his?

P.S. When i talk about *Bill* i mean Bill Gates...not me :p

I think you are getting confused here - his job as Chairman and major shareholder of a publically floated company is to maximise profits - and he is doing just fine (no - he is doing amazingly well) - part of his long term strategy that he sets out for this is to "own the standards" . . .

Unfortunately his aims do not always correspond *exactly* with those of developers, software houses, technically sophisticated users so some friction may be present at times ;)

e.g. it is in his companies interest to destroy every possible competitor or rival so that we have no choice about the software that we purchase - but this may not suit everyones interests - in the anti-trust case it emerged that computer companies shipping computers with a rival OS (like Linux) receive a threats that Microsoft will not supply them with Windows which is why it is so difficult to get a Linux box pre-installed - Bill Gates uses a phrase Bogu - you can look it up in his book "Bill Gates Speaks" :rolleyes: