Sentience

[Arbiter]

OK, so accuracy conveys a benefit/deficit to damage done. We could get away with that, but we'll want to keep random values to a minimum. A bit of randomness is OK, but damage that can vary by 100% is merely tedious.

Are we also going to have the accuracy diminish over range. Seems reasonable really.

Also depends on how far the opponent has moved in its last turn.

Right, summary of modifiers:

Range
Chips
Target square terrain
Enemy movement
Friendly movement
A small random element

I never mentioned a random element, merely implied that it should be difficult to attain 0% accuracy through whatever methods.

[Arbiter]

No peasant!

*I* mentioned the random element. Should we have it or not?

mais pourquoi?

[Arbiter]

Monkey.

Right, I'm fed up - I'm going home.

Check this when you get in tomorrow. It's quicker, easier and doesn't clog up my work eMail account.

I'll let you know what I've managed to get done tonight, tomorrow morning.

CYA Later ya zany space cadet!

tata...

[Arbiter]

Thursday morning MONKEY!!!

OK pal, last night I...

Drank some beer
Corrected the problem with the screen whiting out on slower machines
Corrected the problem with the screen blacking out caused by my fix to the previous problem.
Drank some beer
Tidied up some memory issues
Recompiled the whole job lot and ran it on the 166. (Runs pretty smooth - esp the new fillbars)
Stripped out any of the unneccessarryy files to save a bit of space (not that we need it at the mo, but it's good practice)
Drank some beer
Set the screens permanantly (saving space in the directory and load time) and also went with a single, common, background (nebula4). Gives the impression that the background never changes, just the objects in the foreground do.

How was the gig?

roargh!

head hurts...!

Glad to know you managed to get some beer-drinking in last night, I was a little concerned that you may have neglected it. - Managed to get hold of Photoshop yesterday, so I should be a little more productive now. :D

[Arbiter]

Cool!

Are you busy today? Will you have time to come up with an expanded list of individual components.

Did you manage to find that eMail btw?

completely forgot to look for it. I think its spread across about 2 or 3 dozen emails. I'll have a look today. remind me later (i suspect its in a text file on my desktop at home)

[Arbiter]

Not good enough.

PS - I've reminded you to look for it.

That ship's quite nice that your mate knocked up. Schpunky (no less).

So, SC tonight then?

Dont worry about the movie. leave it to him. he'll render it all out when hes done and give you the movie file.

hes happy to let you have to models et al. should I pass your email address to him and you two can communicate directly?

BTW let me know when (if) you find the mails I was talking about...

[Arbiter]

Yeah, pass my eMither address on to him.

Cool as!

which one?

how did the interview go?

[Arbiter]

My home account please.

The interview went OK, but I've told you that already over the phone.

I've working on multiple WAV playing at the moment and I really struggling.

We could do with getting together at some point and thrashing out the component list. I can't find any eMails relating to them...

[Arbiter]

Chunky monkey!

Awight pal! So, are you going to get me the final two graphics for the resources today?

And we still need to thrash out a list of the components. I'll search my archives today to see if I can find anything and if not we'll need to work on it afresh...

ok. are there any communication difficulties today? you mentioned I'm going to get random emails.

[Arbiter]

The random eMails message was sent on sat when I was working at home. I was just planning on sending you mails of whatever I was thinking at the time.

It didn't happen because a) I saw you b) I had nothing interesting to say.

I'm compiling a list of components as we speak, I'll post it shortly.

Stand by...

communication does seem to be quite an issue at the moment. emails tend to have a delay, so its difficult to know whether they've arrived or been read. These forums are great, but its not always easy to track where the next relevant message should be. PM in here's fine, but again, we still seem to be having trouble.

[Arbiter]

Got the zips now. Took an hour to come through.

Very nice. Not convinced about the background for the 400x400's, will black go through the transparenceriser? If not, I'll have to fix it.

I'm considering using the 400x400's, loading them into memory and resizing them to sizes that we can use. I'll play around with them tonight.

They're very nice actually - they looked a little odd small, but now I've seen them big I'm well impressed.

Good luck with your interview, I'll stay at work until you've finished and then you can meet me and we'll celebrate SC style.

dont worry about the background for 400x400s, I can sort that out (like I did with the one on the white background.) It'll take a little time, but there you go.

BTW. I've had a shave today and look a little bit odd - I may scare you during our SC celebrations.

[Arbiter]

Awight pal,

Nice night last night. Didn't get too slaughetered, had a couple of interesting games. That 'too many minerals' was a bit of a disappointment but some of the others were funky.

I'm going to try and get some work done today as I'm not too busy at work. That may change but I'll work on Sentience until it does.

Firstly I intend to update that spreadsheet you started and then pass it over to you for more twiddling.

I'll also start work on some psuedo code to put into the game (maybe taking into account the 'special weapons'. Ideally I want to get some form of industry online so we at least have a vaguely playable game. I also want to set in stone the RMV settings/costs etc as these can then be a one stop construction thing.

If you have any idea as to the costs/attributes of an RMV then let me know!

[Arbiter]

TbT Industry:

Perform creation at end of turn

At beginning of next turn if allocated indpoints>prod capacity then flag to player

Creation

Check if available resources to create item

Create Item
Deduct resources

Industry Screen:

Micro allocate ind points
Macro allocate (weapons, armour etc)
Link to techs researched

Loop through all components adding ID to temp storage variable if researched

Loop through temp storage displaying details

If temp storage contents < display slots scrollbar.visible = false

General:

Create industry array from outset for each player
Redim to fit number of components
Contains no of allocated points

Construction Screen:

Be able to select all types of component
Clicking a component square brings a list of selectable components from stores
Selecting a component changes the component square to the graphic of the component
When all prerequisites are met, the mech construction button is made available
If the construction yard square contains a unit, a warning is flagged
As a component is added, the units attributes are updated

RMV's:

To be constructed at HQ, one per turn

Check if sufficient resources
Check if HQ square is free of units
Create RMV
Deduct resources

are we therefore unable to stack units?

have you included returning minerals to square upon unit destruction?

damage to surrounding units through self-destruct?

[Arbiter]

Not just yet, I was concentrating on industry.

No, you cannot stack units, I'm thinking of adding in a bit whereby if you try to move through a unit instead of it just stopping you it will move you onto the square past it if you have sufficient moves.

unless the unit in the way is enemy in which case you level it with tons of ordnance...nice!

[Arbiter]

That goes without saying. When all else fails - level the area.

Which gives me an interesting thought. We could have another special weapon which disrupts the IFF on the mech. If it's being controlled manually, it won't matter but if it's on autopilot, stand guard or the controller is stupid enough to walk over another of his troops then the mech gives it the good news.

Yeah/nay?

IFF?

ps did you manage to check out plenderj's craft last night?

[Arbiter]

Identify Friend/Foe

I thought you'd know that. Look it up..

[Arbiter]

Unfortunately I didn't.

I want to check it out, not least because he showed us the courtesy of looking at Sentience, but also because we may learn something. I'll try and do it tonight before I go out...

ok, I quite liked the IFF disruption idea(could be attached to the phase disruptor?), but its too easy to manually control the mech and therefore prevent any damage. perhaps disable manual control?

[Arbiter]

It would have to be a special effect, but there's no reason why it can't be attached to the phase disruptor.

The thing is, when automation routines are finally implemented you won't be manually controlling all your units. Let's face it, how many units do you manually control in SMAC??

And also, it's not going to flag that its IFF is out because it wouldn't know. The first they'd know is when it starting blasting away its allies...

ooh...tension!

[Arbiter]

Function CalcUnitWeight(currplayer As Byte, currunit As Integer) As Single
Dim temp As Single
Dim x As Byte

For x = 1 To player(currplayer).unit(currunit).torso.slots
If player(currplayer).unit(currunit).weapon(x) <> 0 Then
temp = temp + components.weapon(player(currplayer).unit(currunit).weapon(x))
End If
Next x

For x = 1 To 4
If player(currplayer).unit(currunit).ammo(x) <> 0 Then
temp = temp + components.ammo(player(currplayer).unit(currunit).ammo(x))
End If
Next x

temp = temp + components.armour(player(currplayer).unit(currunit).armour)

temp = temp + components.shieldgen(player(currplayer).unit(currunit).sheildgen)

temp = temp + components.torso(player(currplayer).unit(currunit).torso)

temp = temp + components.chassis(player(currplayer).unit(currunit).chassis)

End Function

pardon?
:confused:

did you decide whether or not you needed stuff from me?

[Arbiter]

No I didn't need anything from you after all - I had roughly what I needed in my outlook account. I'll need to compare with home to be sure.

The reason I'm posting random bits of code here is because I can't eMail VB code from work. It bans me from doing it.

I'm doing nothing at all at work today so I thought I could get a little bit done on Sentience.

I'm going to try and get some more done tonight when I get home. It's a shame you can't code - there's soooo much that needs doing.

[Arbiter]

Morning Chopper,

As discussed on the phone we need to start writing little modules to calculate things like the speed etc.

Are you going to have any free time to work on these today?

I got quite a bit of behind the scenes stuff done over the weekend, mostly fixes (oh yeah and the RMV creation bit).

There's only three known bugs in the game now. Super eh?

I'm struggling a bit with my organisation. One of the things we need to do is establish a logical colour scheme for the tech tree - do you have the original?
I've tidied up the 2 leg mech, so I can get that to you. We can tie up a few looses ends on Wednesday. I'll try to get the (few) bits and pieces to you before then.

[Arbiter]

The first four techs are -

Thermo - dynamics
Electro magnetism
Biology
Process Metallurgy

I just downloaded the scripts zip from the Sentience depot and read that. If you need any info as to which techs depend on which, then you can have a look at that.

[Arbiter]

The things we need to thrash out calculations for are:

Speed
Energy used to move one square
View range (or is this based solely on the sensor chip
Maximum energy drain per turn

We also need calculations for:

Accuracy
Something else - I can't remember

I've done the things to calculate a units weight ;)

All mechs should have a basic view range (perhaps 1 tile out or something - like it is now). And a sensor chip can be used to upgrade this. We can also use varying sensor chips in sensor array buildings for extended view.

[Arbiter]

Pretty much as I figured.

This removes the need for a calculating a unit view range, it's merely the range given the by the chip.

We will have a seperate building for each of the 'listening posts' with their own view range. Easy.

mech movement points are determined by its speed (the distance it can travel per turn), which is in turn determined by its movement allowance.

Factors which affect movement allowance:

chassis
"Reactor" type (available energy to specific mech)
chip
terrain

(is weight going to be an issue, or is it simply connected with chassis type?)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
terrain & chassis type have already been interlinked. chip and reactor are also connected in energy management-

therefore the two factors required to determine movement are:

energy availabilty
and
physical movement factor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmm, i think im just dribbling now...

[Ianpbaker]

awwww, you got you own little thread going. (add number three to the list) :D

I've not touched the site in ages. The server is getting fuller by the day, I just don't trust this rag-tag bunch of drug crazed loons. It's time to take it all home I think.

[Arbiter]

Got loads done last night, my little spreadsheet's looking much more healthy.

Got the mapmaker screen fully functional, whacking the buttons now changes the settings for the mountains, forest, world size, continents etc Continent seeds are calculated by multiplying the map width by height, squaring the result and squaring that result. Seems to produce sensible figures. Everything else is a random value between two limits.

I've added all the load routines for the components now, so I can progress with the industry routines.

Modified the zoom function on the main screen, and it now uses the full viewing area when zoomed. Fixed a bug that meant the last column of the map wasn't displayed.

Tidied up the mountain formatting function (still don't work properly, but it's getting better)

The mapmaker now uses the createRMV function to create the initial units rather than assigning the values individually. The createRMV function produces RMV's properly though I'm having problems calculating the weight (I think it's 'cos I cacked up some info in one of the scripts in the component load)

I've built the basics of a unit viewer screen and component viewer screen, though these both need a lot of work.

And also converted the menu to click away as opposed to clicking a close button. Much better.

Minor cosmetics changes as well:

Changed some graphics colouring on MapMaker
Changed some textboxes formats on MapMaker
Fixed logo display on MainMenu
Added version number to main menu

I got to bed quite late last night....

You're a real Trojan...

[Arbiter]

Quit with your sarcasm butt face.

So, when am I going to get:

Unit graphics
Component graphics
Tech graphics

I also need to get the latest version of the code/game to you so you can modify the scripts and see what the graphics will look like in game

Also, how's your mate getting on with the movie?

Unit graphics - moving very slowly. I've completed a second draft 2 legs 2 weapons mech (like the one with the white border around it that you already have, but without the white border)

Component graphic - got some concept sketches together, but nothing is as yet in digital format.

tech - ground to a halt. Stuggling for both inspiration and colour schemes.

I've sent you a mail at work. Hopefully good communication practices today and tomorrow should focus us better.

oh, and it wasn't intended as sarcasm. I'm proud of your hard work. I just thought Trojan was a nice word for today.

Word of the day: Trojan :D

I'm trying to find us some hosting space so we can start up with the manual again. Any suggestions. I thought of geocities - after all it is simply a hobby at the moment. I'll let you know what I find.

[Arbiter]

There was a post in chit chat to do with that.

Someone suggested Spaceports or something like that.

PS - let me know the address and password so I can access it once it's set up.

[Arbiter]

Hairy Bloke,

What time are things going to happen this evening? Are you coming over to Gould St for a lift?

Sherry Drinker,

Have you been sober enough to play the game yet?

[Behemoth]

most probably i'm just like a kid with a new toy today.

[Arbiter]

Wow!

Just got that mail you sent me last night with the shapes in, talk about a delay!


Pretty cool. Currently, the faction graphic is displayed nowhere. Where're they going to go?

On the 'next player' screen and maybe on the diplomacy screen. Are the factions going to have any particular ideaologies or are they all going to be the same?

[Behemoth]

who knows. Its more access today, so I'm going to have trouble communicating today. I think im a bit freer this afternoon. I'll speak to you later.

[Arbiter]

OK.

Attached is the agenda for tonights meeting.

[Behemoth]

ok, I'm free now, although I'm a bit spaced out on cross-tab queries and self-joins.

[Behemoth]

sounds like a plan. I'll come down to meet you. What time do you want to finish at? I'll see if I can squeeze you in (ooh matron!).

those icons: I was playing about with Illustrator, practicing my vector drawing skills. I know theyre simplistic, but thats the whole point isnt it. I like the black and yellow one.

[Arbiter]

They are quite impressive those little things.

Spiffing.

Good to hear that your free. I wasn't planning on paying much for you anyway.

Have you perused the meeting agenda? Anything to add?

[Behemoth]

I prefer the idea of a dynamic agenda - we'll confront things as we get to them, using yours as a template

[Arbiter]

Behemoth you peasant!

You've got your phone off - when are you coming to Gould St?

[Behemoth]

sorry, I forgot. I'll get down to meet you about 5:00. Is that ok?

[Arbiter]

No problem,

Try and get here as early as you can so we can miss the rush hour traffic please.

Ta

[Arbiter]

Hello my hairy friend!

Implemented the calculation for speed last night and the units all now have speed limitations. Doesn't take into account chip benefits yet as we have no chips!

Movement doesn't take into account the energy used per moving a square yet, but then again - we haven't worked anything out for that yet.

That's going to some combination of weight, energy efficiency (chips), chassis(?) - anything else?

[Arbiter]

Function CalcUnitEUPM (tp as byte, uid as integer) as single

dim x as byte, temp as single, cumchipben as integer

temp = player(tp).unit(uid).weight / 10

for x=1 to 3

if components.chip(player(tp).unit(uid).chip(x)).type=2 then 'May not be two - check when get home
cumchipben=cumchipben + components.chip(player(tp).unit(uid).chip(x)).ben1 'May not be ben1 - check this as well
endif

next x

temp = temp - ((temp/100)*cumchipben)

temp=temp / components.chassis(player(tp).unit(uid).chassis).chassismod

CalcUnitEUPM =temp

end function

[Arbiter]

Behemoth,

In case you're reading this the above calculates the EnergyUsedPerMove as follows

EUPM = ((Units Weight / 10) - (Cumulative % of all energy management chip benefits)) / Chassis modifier

The chassis modifier is the same one we used to calculate the units top speed.

[Behemoth]

Apologies:
sorry

Introductions:
Behemoth, this is Arbiter. Hi Arbiter, I'm Behemoth.

Brief mission statement:
Build a funky game.

Progress update from all parties:
Behemoth- Slowly approaching completion of research tech icons. Planning colour schemes etc.

Debating points:

Factions:
Warlike
Miners
etc (throw me a bone here?)

Different names/types:

Benefits:

Associated Graphics:
TBC (based on first draft I submitted earlier in the week)

Fitting them into the game flow:

Components:
List of names of components- within spreadsheet

Required technologies:

Arrangement for producing graphics:
LATER!

Attributes Technologies:
Short descriptions
Long Descriptions

[we can work on these as time goes on, I've got a really good science dictionary at home. I'll make a start later]

Points required
Formulae:
Speed
Energy used per move
Max energy drain
Standing charge
Processing cost of unit
Factions might

I think these last few are either a) already covered, or b) can wait.

[Arbiter]

Omega lead?

Omega lead please respond...

Support, Omega lead is down - repeat - Omega lead is down.

-------------------------

Debating points:

Factions:

Conquest
Defensive
Miners
Curators / Archives?
R&D
Administrators
A. N. Other

Components:
Weapons (as per attached spreadsheet)
Armour
Sheilds
Torsos
Chassis
Ammo
Chips

Arrangement for producing graphics:
Please be a little more specific – assign yourself some deadlines

Formulae:

Speed (done)

Energy used per move (done)

Max energy drain (The value of the reactor + 25%) + (cumulative energy benefits of chips)

Standing charge (=the total value of all the energy requirements of all the components on the mech (bar ammo - which is used when fired))

Processing cost of unit (the sum of all the processing requirements of all the components on the mech) – (the cumulative benefits of all the chips)

Accuracy (no idea)

Damage (done)

Factions might (no idea)

These formulae cannot wait – they’re an integral part of the industry.

Omega lead, please respond....

[Behemoth]

1) did you get my mail?

2)

Faction: Cartographic?

Graphics arrangements: very small piecemeal. If I overload myself, I'll crash & need to be rebooted. (thanks for last night BTW.)

Accuracy (bear with me, I'll think this out loud)
- 5% for every square over half max range of weapon
- 10% for weapon fired at max range
- 1% for every kph target moves during turn
-(any special effects weapons - epoxy etc)
+(any chip benefits)

Final %age is %age damage from shot?
if under 50% and single shot weapon, then miss.

Faction might: we'll play with this later. for the time being, you've got the basic version I sent you last month.

Anyway, I'm back in Access this afternoon, so I should be able to read anything you post, but I shall maintain radio silence.

Good luck Omega lead. *Copy*

[Arbiter]

Right,

That's the faction ideals sorted.

I have read your mail - I have not composed anything salient yet.

Like the minus % for every square over half range.

Err.... how are we calculating how far away something is?

My first idea is that we calculate the number of pixels the centre of the target square is from the centre of the originating square using Pythies' drunken ramblings involving triangles.

We then assign each ammo a range based on the number of pixels it can fire. To provide a firing range of one square means an ammo range of 57 (including shooting diagonally - do the math).

I've realised that we could have used this to provide the viewing range as well, and maybe, just maybe I'll convert it.

We'll see.

I've also asked Phil, my boss at work, to have a look at and comment back. We'd do well to heed any comments he gives as he knows what he's on about...

[Arbiter]

Wow,

This is three pages long now - lots of rambling in here...

[Behemoth]

hows this for wierd?(Fox, have you replied here at all?)
C:\Documents and Settings\isaunders\Desktop\shapes\email.jpg

[Arbiter]

Ian,

I've no idea what that last post was but it had a duff image in it.

How are you getting along with the web site? Should I begin to send you content for it yet (or should I wait for you to put up what I've already sent you?)

As req. from now on I'll send the manual bits with MANUAL in the subject.

PS - can't wait to get back to that Heroes III game...

[Behemoth]

hehe :)

I'll try to amend that post. I'ts kind of surreal.

[Behemoth]

is this better?

[Arbiter]

That's tremendous.

How's the site doing? Are you going to get chance to work on it some today?

[Behemoth]

we'll see.

I still don't love you.

[Arbiter]

You do love me.

I couldn't have walked you to your bus stop because I'd have been late to the quiz. Sorry.

The option, as you know, is always there to come to the quiz with us but I've now idea as to how you'd get home.

Are you going to have a free evening this week to look through all the stuff I do on the game and continue our Heroes game?

And if we stay off the fizzy pop - I could drive you home (or if we do, I promise I'll walk you to your bus)

[Lord Orwell]

I knew Behemoth would come around to my way of thinking :D ;) :D and he brought the old Avatar back too!

[Behemoth]

Are you referring to the Orwellian quote?

[Lord Orwell]

Ya think? :D (points out that his user name is orwell)
I had one myself the last 2 days ("mankind is only as good as its technology allows it to be")

[Behemoth]

i cant find the disk drive, so...

[Behemoth]

...

[Behemoth]

www.geocities.com/sentienceuk

[Arbiter]

I could kiss you!!!!

[Behemoth]

still needs work, but the wagons rolling now.

[Arbiter]

You've probably already left, but the plan is that light alloys reduce the weight to 3 quarters of the original weight and strong alloys provide a unique benefit to each component type (we'll work out what when we can see the variables). S/L will do both.

[Arbiter]

Edited to remove code

[Arbiter]

Hairy bloke,

As pointed out in the thread in G&GP most of the links point to the same place.

Is this because we have no manual bits for those sections and you need some or were you just being sloppy?

On an aside, I managed to implement the CanPlayerAffordIt routine but have realised that the framework will need changing (yet again) to cope with the different types of metals.

You see, when a component is produced, it merely marks it 'component x' and the original values are referenced every time. Damn.

I can't think of any way around this without rewriting huge chunks of the framework or doing as you said before and just increasing the armour value of the mech?

Suggestions?

[Lord Orwell]

Behemoth, i just noticed that your quote is incorrect :(

It is supposed to be:
"he who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past"

[Lord Orwell]

Your guys program site looks really neat. I read about your map generator. What kind of game is it?

[Arbiter]

Lord Orwell,

The game is a turn based strategy game.

If you haven't already, check out the thread in Games and Graphics Programming (you'll be able to download the game from there and also follow the comments of those who've tested it.)

Have a play, and let us know what you think. The more comments the better.

Thanks!

[Arbiter]

Oh, and also, Lord Orwell.

Behemoth's quote in his sig is correct. ;)

[Behemoth]

Looks like you've got another random name for the generator. Its quite a unique method of displaying "credits".

[Arbiter]

On an aside, I managed to implement the CanPlayerAffordIt routine but have realised that the framework will need changing (yet again) to cope with the different types of metals.

You see, when a component is produced, it merely marks it 'component x' and the original values are referenced every time. Damn.

I can't think of any way around this without rewriting huge chunks of the framework or doing as you said before and just increasing the armour value of the mech?



Any suggestions?

[Arbiter]

If Orwell provides us with constructive comments then sure his name will go into the list.

Quite a neat idea, no?

[Behemoth]

I prefer the Units overall armour value increases idea.

[Lord Orwell]

i'll look at it and tell you what i think first chance i get.

In the mean time, visit these threads. I realize they arent "authorities" but they also list my version, which i actually READ in Orwell's novel 1984. It is one of the Party Slogans.

http://www.cp-tel.net/miller/BilLee/quotes/Orwell.html
http://www.chesco.com/~artman/orwell.html

And finally, this thread IS an authority:
http://www.wiu.edu/users/mihist/

[Behemoth]

well i like my version!:p

[Lord Orwell]

Ok i've downloaded it and tomorrow after i get home (probably) i will check it out.
I do have one suggestion though.
Ive played smac and civ and civ2 and civ2 ctp
and civ had one feature that the others didn't have (except maybe cmac-i haven't beaten it yet):
When you won or lost the game, it played a turn by turn view of the land area controlled by each country. It was immensly satisfying to watch your controlled area get bigger and bigger and soon overtake everyone.

Perhaps you could implement some kind of record on the h/d? Then at some future time you could worry about decoding it.

[Behemoth]

very nice idea. I think we should give this some thought. The file would be enourmous though.

[Lord Orwell]

that would depend on the # of turns and the size of the map...
Civ did it somehow and still fit it in a 1 meg save file with the map.

[Behemoth]

http://www.quoteland.com/qldb/author/190

[Arbiter]

Currently Sentience doesn't actually have zones of control. The closest thing to it would the view range of the buildings. Due to the incredible level of complexity of the game, the save games are already quite large (Sentience is much more complex than Civ - there are 14 resources that have to be managed and mechs which are infinitely customisable). Once the game is approaching completion and you can actually 'finish' the game we can do a poll and see the general concensus of opinion regarding this feature.

Nice idea, keep em coming.

[Arbiter]

x

[Arbiter]

rename to .xls

[Arbiter]

Buttons for the GUI

[Lord Orwell]

Hey guys. The game crashed on me with a subscript out of range. Here is what i was doing.
Playing default map setting, 4 players.
player 1 had the top 2 things set to "slurp"
the other players i just skipped their turns.
and the last thing i did was move the mech in the center up one square diagonal right. Then whatever it was doing next it crashed.

[Arbiter]

Other people have reported SOORs as well, but I can't seem to duplicate them.

I'm beginning to get upset now....

[Arbiter]

Behemoth,

What do you think to using the components weight as an armour benefit when Strong Alloys are used?

Ergo, the heavier the component, the higher the armour benefit?

[Behemoth]

no, because players are going to be aiming for lighter mechs, thats the whole point of the light and SL alloys. You can't penalise a player for having dont something right (eg reduced the overall weight of their mech), by whatever means.

[Arbiter]

Armour benefit without weight increase.

If you're going for a lighter mech, either use weapons made with light alloy (reduced weight), light weapons made with strong alloy (same weight + armour benefit) or weapons made with SL alloy (reduced weight & armour benefit (benefit based on original component weight))

Therefore, (assuming strong alloys are used) mechs with light components weigh less but have less of an armour benefit, mech with the heaviest components (big guns, heavy torso's etc) get the most armour benefits.

[Behemoth]

Sounds like you've already made your decision :p. I suppose it makes sense. I just don't want to envisage trouble at the playtesting stage. If you think its more balanced that way, then I trust you.

[Arbiter]

I haven't already made my decision or I wouldn't have posted it as a question.

If you can see problems with it then let me know, and I can either try and explain it clearer or I'll see the light and we'll try and rejig it.

[Behemoth]

I'll go for the "please explain further" option...

[Arbiter]

I shall explain shortly.

I'm currently bollocksed as to how I can get it to recognise which metal has been used to create the component.

Currently the game stores the id of the component that is used in the mech and then references that every time it needs some info. This does not allow me to change the components properties on individual mechs.

I think the only way we can do this is create 4 types of every component depending on what metal is used. Tedious, but it means we can change every value depending on which metal is used.

More flexible, more customisable, but irritating slightly.
I think we're going to have to go with that. ****.

[Arbiter]

Cool as - it auto censored my post. That John's a good un aint he?

[Behemoth]

you'll have to cuss backwards.

yeah, ok. I imagine having 4 x components would be the simplest method anyway. I suppose you'll be wanting 4 x graphics too?

tihs!

[Arbiter]

If we're going along with the method outlined above(which I think we'll have to) then we'll be moving back to the previously discussed method of granting each components individual benefits when they use different metal types.

Better in the long run I think.

Example would be...

Ammo, Metal Used, Range, Weight, Damage
30mm, standard, 150, 0.6, 40
30mm, light, 200, 0.4, 30
30mm, strong, 120, 0.8, 50
30mm, s/l, 180, 0.5, 45

More flexible as you can see, but it means the other componets would not provide armour benefits. These would have to be taken into account in the armour components section....

Armour, metal used, weight, armour value
6cm Ablative, standard, 4, 100
6cm Ablative, light, 3.2, 75
6cm Ablative, strong, 4.5, 130
6cm Ablative, s/l, 3.75, 120

Comments / questions?

[Arbiter]

4 * graphics would be nice, they'd only have to be different colours to reflect the metals used

standard - gunmetal grey
light - silvery
strong - darker grey
s/l - metallic black (or copper or something)

your call....

[Arbiter]

Function CanPlayerAffordIt(cp As Byte, basemetal As Single, _
energy As Single, diamond As Single, fissionable As Single, fossil As Single, gems As Single, _
stdalloy As Single, lightalloy As Single, stralloy As Single, slalloy As Single, plastic As Single, _
precious As Single, propellant As Single) As String

Dim temp As String

'Trap errors and restore resolution
'Trap error when initialising sound
'Fix SOOR on zoom problem

temp = ""
If player(cp).energy < 0 Then temp = temp & "energy, "
If player(cp).StdRes.basemetal - basemetal < 0 Then temp = "base metals, "
If player(cp).StdRes.diamond - diamond < 0 Then temp = temp & "diamond, "
If player(cp).StdRes.fissionable - fissionable < 0 Then temp = temp & "fissionable materials, "
If player(cp).StdRes.fossil - fossil < 0 Then temp = temp & "fossil fuels, "
If player(cp).StdRes.gems - gems < 0 Then temp = temp & "gems, "
If player(cp).StdRes.precious - precious < 0 Then temp = temp & "precious metals, "

If player(cp).advres.standardalloy - stdalloy < 0 Then temp = temp & "standard alloys, "
If player(cp).advres.strongalloy - stralloy < 0 Then temp = temp & "strong alloys, "
If player(cp).advres.lightalloy - lightalloy < 0 Then temp = temp & "light alloys. "
If player(cp).advres.SLA - slalloy < 0 Then temp = temp & "strong/light alloys, "
If player(cp).advres.propellant - propellant < 0 Then temp = temp & "propellants, "
If player(cp).advres.plastic - plastic < 0 Then temp = temp & "plastic, "

If temp = "" Then
temp = "Y"
Else
temp = Mid$(temp, 0, Len(temp) - 2)
End If

End Function

Sub BillPlayer(cp As Byte, basemetal As Single, _
energy As Single, diamond As Single, fissionable As Single, fossil As Single, gems As Single, _
stdalloy As Single, lightalloy As Single, stralloy As Single, slalloy As Single, plastic As Single, _
precious As Single, propellant As Single) As String

player(cp).energy = player(cp).energy - energy

player(cp).StdRes.BaseMetals = player(cp).StdRes.BaseMetals - basemetal
player(cp).StdRes.diamond = player(cp).StdRes.diamons - diamond
player(cp).StdRes.Fissionables = player(cp).StdRes.Fissionables - fissionable
player(cp).StdRes.fossil = player(cp).StdRes.fossil - fossil
player(cp).StdRes.gems = player(cp).StdRes.gems - gems
player(cp).StdRes.precious = player(cp).StdRes.precious - precious

player(cp).advres.StdAlloys = player(cp).advres.StdAlloys - stdalloy
player(cp).advres.StrongAlloys = player(cp).advres.StrongAlloys - stralloy
player(cp).advres.LightAlloys = player(cp).advres.LightAlloys - lightalloy
player(cp).advres.SLAlloys = player(cp).advres.SLAlloys - slalloy

player(cp).advres.Propellants = player(cp).advres.Propellants - propellant
player(cp).advres.Plastics = player(cp).advres.Plastics - plastic

End Sub

Function CalcDistance(xstart As Integer, ystart As Integer, xend As Integer, yend As Integer) As Integer

Dim a2 As Double, b2 As Double, c2 As Double
Dim xdiff As Single, ydiff As Single

xdiff = xstart - xend
ydiff = ystart - yend

If xdiff < 0 Then xdiff = xdiff * -1
If ydiff < 0 Then ydiff = ydiff * -1

xdiff = xdiff * 40
ydiff = ydiff * 40

b2 = xdiff * xdiff
c2 = ydiff * ydiff
a2 = b2 + c2

a2 = Sqr(a2)

CalcDistance = a2

End Function

[Arbiter]

I've saved all my globals variables onto a disk and brought them in - in my spare time, I can now chuck out little functions and subs I can then throw in the game when I get home.

I can't test them, but I can at least write them...

[Behemoth]

Originally posted by Arbiter
4 * graphics would be nice, they'd only have to be different colours to reflect the metals used

standard - gunmetal grey
light - silvery
strong - darker grey
s/l - metallic black (or copper or something)

your call....

and the difference between gunmetal grey, dark grey, and metallic black is...?

[Arbiter]

To me, significant, to colour blind you, minimal.

Use different colours then you slapper!

Did the examples I gave for the components make sense to you?

[Behemoth]

er...I think so. Ultimately they're all just numbers to me. I think I grasp what you're trying to convey. Just tell me what to draw and everything is going to be A-OK.

[Arbiter]

Change the font on your sig, it's painful.

The numbers were arbitrary anyway, you were to look at them relative to each other.

[Behemoth]

OK, I think I get it.

The first stage of the GUI design is complete. I'll make a start on the second stage this evening. I could send you an image, but it would mean very little to you at the moment.

Actually, I will. bear in mind a number of things. 1) the text is simply for my reference for positioning. 2) the loss of quality due to using jpeg. 3) my current ignorance of the screen shapes and sizes.

I've tried to make it modular (using loads of layers in the PSD, but this will not be apparent in a flat image)

[Arbiter]

OK, that quite nice. I'll need to find some way of applying the GUI image to the background of my frames. I may have to use a different container control.

Are we going to have up and down states for these buttons?

And where does the black and green colour scheme fit into this?

[Behemoth]

GRR! I knew I should have kept it to myself rather than having to explain it.

I was planning to build panels of the brushed metally stuff (thats what the outside "box" is. I simply wanted all 4 bevelled edges and corners available to me.

The button I showed was the down state. The up state has the green light turned off (its a darker green) The design inspiration came from lift buttons.

The black on green colour scheme would be used for any screens or panels within the GUI. I'll try to mock something up for you to explain better.

[Arbiter]

I'll await your mock up eagerly.

Will you want the buttons to light green as the mouse pointer travels over them.

When they're clicked, they'll probably only be visible for a quadrillionth of a second until they're replaced by the screen they trigger...

[Behemoth]

sounds like a plan

[Behemoth]

ok

[Arbiter]

Right,

The dull green button is before the mouse is over it, the light green is the mouse over version.

What's the bit in the middle?

[Behemoth]

Any screen / monitor / output.

The buttons are for input, the screens for output (eg energy graph) yeah?

[Arbiter]

How are you going to ensure that the buttons match the background? (i.e. the lines join up)

Ideally, the buttons should be able to go anywhere...

[Behemoth]

if by "lines join up" you are referring to the brushed effect, then it's already taken care of, but you'd have to see the PSD for that.

[Behemoth]

If it helps you to visualise, both buttons on the mock-up were made from the same layers, simply in different places.

Easy-peasy

[Behemoth]

with hindsight, they don't need to match up. in reality they would be built from 2 different pieces of metal.

[Arbiter]

You'd have to show me for me to appreciate.

So, what time will you be at Gould st?

[Behemoth]

just don't...I'll probably leave here between 4 and 4:30 (but that's not set in stone). If I come to meet you, we'll go back to mine and have brew or two. I'll copy all the stuff I've done today at home and show you the deeper principles behind the GUI. Then, and only then, will we think about going anywhere...And even that's not definite. Ideally I wanted a quiet night in, playing with my system and fiddling with graphics.

[Lord Orwell]

can't you compile with debug info? That way when it crashes it will tell the line? I don't know if this works but it did in older versions of vb

[Arbiter]

I'll do that in future.

So, what do you think of our baby?

[Arbiter]

Hairy man,

I'm looking forward to what you've got for me today...

Lots of pretty pictures!

[Lord Orwell]

honestly it looks really good, but i'm having the same problem with it that i am having with SMAC. I can't figure out how to play it :(
i bought smac used at a trading store and it didnt have instructions.

It took me like 20 min to figure out that those spidery things were actually movable. Then a few more to remember i had to use arrow keys to move them.

I haven't figured out how to move them off of the grid (if possible) and if not, how to make more grid, etc.

It would really help if you added a quick text file to the download explaining step by step how to do a couple things.

[Arbiter]

If you read through the thread in the games and graphics programming forum, there's loads of information in there as to what things are supposed to do and how to do them.

If you post any questions you have regarding the game and any comments in that forum, then other people can debate them as well. The only people who tend to read posts in here are Behemoth and I...

Thanks.

[Behemoth]

Ok, I was up till all hours last night. I think I've built all the necessary graphics for the GUI for the main screen (yup, thats all and it probably took me the best part of 4 1/2 hours to do that, not counting the preparation at college yesterday!) but probably won't take so much time in future.

How do you want them?

I was thinking of giving you a flat full screen 800 x 600 image (with a clean high quality nebula image in because the old one's quality is quite degraded now), with all interface panels and the up states of all buttons, and then sending the down states of the buttons separately for you to plug in.

Alternatives include me giving you all the up and down states separately, with a blank interface for you to plug stuff in, or me sending you 6 800 x 600 images with all possible combinations of upsand downs, and you can show the required screen when necessary (very inefficient method!)

let me know, and I'll send them on to you.

[Arbiter]

Thanks for the effort you put in. I appreciate it.

I'd like both please. If you could send me a full image so I can see what you've visualised as the interface and then the individual objects to create it myself, so I can see how it all works.

The full image first please - I'd like to see this in its full glory....

[Behemoth]

I'll have to recompose the big image (I couldn't fit it on a disk without breaking it up), be with you in about 10 minutes.

[Behemoth]

ok

[Behemoth]

I've constructed a zip with all buttons and the interface for the main screen, and a fresh splash screen for ya.

mmm, a good days work.

[Arbiter]

Pretty funky.

I'll call you in a minute...

[Arbiter]

Oooh, oooh, where's the zip?

[Behemoth]

its 0.99MB i'll mail it to you.

[Arbiter]

Function CalcIndPoints() As Integer
Dim x As Integer
Dim temp As Integer

temp = 50

For x = 0 To UBound(player(currplayer).Building)

If player(currplayer).Building(x).Type = 3 Then temp = temp + 100

Next x

End Function

Sub CreateComponents()
Dim IndPointsRem As Single, x As Integer, temp As Single

IndPointsRem = CalcIndPoints

If player(currplayer).distind = True Then
temp = IndPointsRem / UBound(player(currplayer).buildq)
For x = 1 To UBound(player(currplayer).buildq)
With player(currplayer).buildq(x)
If .pointsrem - temp < 0 Then
IndPointsRem = IndPointsRem - .pointsrem
.pointsrem = 0
Else
.pointsrem = .pointsrem - temp
IndPointsRem = IndPointsRem - temp
End If
End With
Next x
End If

End If

For x = 1 To UBound(player(currplayer).buildq)
If IndPointsRem > 0 Then
With player(currplayer).buildq(x)
If IndPointsRem - .pointsrem < 0 Then
.pointsrem = .pointsrem - IndPointsRem
IndPointsRem = 0
Else
IndPointsRem = IndPointsRem - .pointsrem
.pointsrem = 0
End If
End With
End If
Next x

For x = 1 To UBound(player(currplayer).buildq)
With player(currplayer).buildq(x)
If .pointsrem = 0 Then
Select Case .Type

Case "Weapons"
Components.Weapon(.id).stored(currplayer) = Components.Weapon(.id).stored(currplayer) + 1
RemoveFromBuildQ (x)

Case "Armour"
Components.Armour(.id).stored(currplayer) = Components.Armour(.id).stored(currplayer) + 1
RemoveFromBuildQ (x)

End Select
End If
End With
Next x

End Sub

Sub RemoveFromBuildQ(component As Integer)

If component = UBound(player(currplayer).buildq) Then
ReDim Preserve player(currplayer).buildq(UBound(player(currplayer).buildq) - 1)
Else
player(currplayer).buildq(component).id = player(currplayer).buildq(component + 1).id
player(currplayer).buildq(component).pointsrem = player(currplayer).buildq(component + 1).pointsrem
player(currplayer).buildq(component).Type = player(currplayer).buildq(component + 1).Type
ReDim Preserve player(currplayer).buildq(UBound(player(currplayer).buildq) - 1)
End If

End Sub

Function CalcBuildQIndReq() As Single
Dim x As Integer

For x = 1 To UBound(player(currplayer).buildq)
CalcBuildQIndReq = CalcBuildQIndReq + player(currplayer).buildq(x).pointsrem
Next x

End Function

[Arbiter]

Still not got that zip

[Arbiter]

Oooh, ooh, I have now!

[Arbiter]

Ian,

I have to put the buttons in the places specified, there's no ability to customise the GUI.

1,

There's a faded out copy of the button on the big bitmap

2,

The streaks on the metal will not line up if I put the buttons anywhere else.

[Behemoth]

1) I put the ghost images on for you to line up the buttons accurately (for spacing), but I can get rid of that easily.

2) why do they have to line up? a button is going to be made from a different piece of metal than the console, surely? Anyway, they shouldnt be too obvious.

[Arbiter]

Very sexy mech design screen.

I think we can work with that. It'll take some coding but won't kill me

The design screen can be on the left and the details of the mech will be displayed on the right.

In fact, just thinking about it, it's going to be nightmarish coding.

Have we come up with...

A name generator
A picture generator

yet?

[Arbiter]

Yeah, you'll have to remove the ghost buttons.

Could you send it with bevelled edges all around please with fewer straight lines?

Thanks

*sigh* my hero

[Behemoth]

It's going to take some time, I've been bodily removed from my machine, at least until lunchtime.

you want bevelled edges around all 4 sides of the panels? can do, but may take a while.

Remove ghosts. easy. a 10 second job. (always nice to know)

[Arbiter]

Excellent.

Errr..... How did someone bodily remove you from your machine? I'm sure it would have taken several strong men and three bison to do that.

[Behemoth]

Actually, one group had a client in, and Tom (sits next to me) offered me a pint a lunchtime if I made myself scare so the rest of the group could get round the machines to show off to the clients.

And who could say no to beer...?

[Arbiter]

Fair do's.

I've set myself a target to get the whole of the industry working before I go back to work on Tuesday.

Ambitious? Maybe.

Or maybe I'll finish it tonight. Really push the boat out.

[Behemoth]

wahey!

sound psuedocode:

Intro loops x 4
mid loops x 16
outro loop x 4

loopnumber = random loopnumber+minimumloopnumber

random introloop

for a=minimumloopnumber to loopnumber
play random mid loop
next a

random outro loop

1 x loop length silence

repeat.

[Arbiter]

Seems reasonable,

The problems we're going to have are

a)
getting the loops to tesselate

b)
making the code recognise when one loop has ended and the other should begin.

You take a, I'll take b

If you can provide me with some music, I can start coding the engine for it.

[Behemoth]

A place for everything and everything in its place...

[Arbiter]

If I had any idea what you were dribbling on about I'd probably denounce it as rubbish anyway....

[Behemoth]

see chitchat

[Sastraxi]

Hey guys (sorry to intrude, I'm also a bumbling fool...)

I have a suggestion to make. What if you guys had all of the code in seperate modules, so that all you called in your main loop were user-made modules? It would surely be easier to find the code (you could use the origin command when right-clicking on the word) and it would be easier to make it all happen...

But it looks like you are already too far for this, sorry if it didn't help...

[Arbiter]

I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean Sastraxi...

The majority of the code is in modules (bar that stored behind control events) and I've tried to set it up so it's a logical as possible.

The main loop is merely about 8 subroutine calls and they then cascade down to other subs and functions, giving us a kind of turn heirarchy e.g.



Main
Process Industry
Calculate Industry Points
Create components
Create RMV's
Remove Component's from stores
Generate unit
Create Battle units
Remove Component's from stores
Generate unit
Calculate Current Energy
Calculate incoming energy
From reactors
From units



etc (you get the idea)

Is this what you meant?

[Sastraxi]

Yeah, I was just saying if the actual subroutine was in the main timer (or gettickcount, whatever) event, then havoc would ensue:


Sub DoStuff()
DoStuff2
DoStuff3
End Sub

Sub DoStuff2()
A = A + 1
B = C + 2
A = C + 3
B = B + 3
A = B - 99
End Stuff

Sub DoStuff2()
Me.Enabled = True
Me.Enabled = False
End Stuff



That is GOOD code. This is BAD code:


Sub DoStuff()
A = A + 1
B = C + 2
A = C + 3
B = B + 3
A = B - 99
Me.Enabled = True
Me.Enabled = False
End Sub


It's harder to read, eh?
I'm just saying you should have subroutines instead of a huge whopping subroutine.

[Arbiter]

Sastraxi,

That's pretty much what it looks like.

The main loop calls the sub routines, which in turn call functions. It's fairly tidy but it won't win any awards ;)

[Sastraxi]

Juuuust Checking... :D

[Arbiter]

Mornin hairy guy!

Right, after our little chat last night I managed to implement a little of the second stage but it's not very flexible.

You can now allocated a % of your ind points to primary process (as it's now been christened) and then a % of that to each of

BM - Std
BM - Lght
BM - Str
BM - S/L
FF - Plastics
FF - Propellants

Current the formulae is simple.

One industry point converts one standard resource to one advanced resource. This shouldn't be that case. There should be some form of loss involved (efficiency) and this should be improved by having different buildings or researching new techs.

We could do with a formulae to represent this.

StdRes converted = (ind points / 2) * effic bonus

ergo if there are 20 ind points allocated and there is a 20% efficiency bones (through techs etc) then:

20 base metals with be removed from store
12 light alloys will be added to store

Follow the maths?

Anyway, how did you get on with your legs?

[Behemoth]

grrr...Everything I do looks poo!

[Arbiter]

You're not one for long posts are you?

OK, you got nothing done on the legs. So what do you thing of the stuff I outlined in the post above this?

[Behemoth]

I think 12 from 20 is particularly inefficient. I suppose that forces players to really look at their actions, so I guess its ok. Yuh, whatever.

I think applying values to these things is going to get easier. It's just a matter of time.

I've got some more images for legs. It's a going to get better. I just can't help feeling it should be rendered in 3D. bah humbug!

[Arbiter]

OK, You spend days rendering something in 3D and then shrink it down to 20*40 where you can really reap the benefits...

I'm building that spreadsheet at the moment. I'll upload a copy when it's complete. Then you can go through it and add your own comments/amendments. Don't delete what I've put, put your new values or comments in brackets in red after them.

I should have done it for a bout 12ish (I have a meeting at 11).

I'm also going round to a company that my mum works for to set them up on the internet if I can. Keeps me amused...

BTW, what evening are you free this week?

[Behemoth]

blarg!

I know. I didn't say I was going to render it. I just said I had a feeling. You know what I mean.

bah!:D

[Arbiter]

Aarrgggghhhh!

Blarg. I won't be able to finish the spreadsheet until about - squaaawk - 13.30 - 14.00.

Bleep.

[Behemoth]

Aaarrgg!
Splat!
Squonk!

[Arbiter]

Attached is the spreadsheet. After constructing a basic mech using bog standard components, the results are as follows...

Mech has:

Laser
Power reception array
Light Six Legs
Basic Torso

Stats:

Resources:
...........70 Base Metals
...........85 std alloys
...........37 Plastic
...........3 IGG

Ind points req:
...........470 (about 5 turns including primary processing)

Processor Req:
...........5.2 per turn

Weight:
...........7.5 tons

Sound ok

[Behemoth]

reattach the spreadsheet and try again...

[Arbiter]

Errr......

Here's the spreadsheet.

Rename to .XLS

[Behemoth]

Do those 5 turns include slurp time?

yeah, seems about right. I'll have a good old ponder over the spreadsheet

mech designs are finally taking shape (wahey!) I'll get back to you later on it.

[Behemoth]

5 Mgun n 10 std alloys, 2 plastics, 6 propellant 10 0.4 4 0.1 100 10000 113 0

[Arbiter]

What are you dribbling on about?

[Behemoth]

additions for the spreadsheet (come on, keep up...)

[Arbiter]

I'm building that spreadsheet at the moment. I'll upload a copy when it's complete. Then you can go through it and add your own comments/amendments. Don't delete what I've put, put your new values or comments in brackets in red after them.



As mentioned, add any improvements, additions, amendments etc to the spreadsheet and then upload it. Don't post streams of numbers here please.

How are you getting on with the graphics? Have you got anything further to send me?

I'm going to upload the techs zip and the research.ini when I get home tonight, so people can add that into their copies.

I'm hoping to complete the entire first stage of industry tonight, including the primary process and then ideally I'll mech construction complete by the end of the week.

Didn't we agree that constructing a mech will cost energy? If so, how much energy is it likely to cost?

Also, what nights are you free this week?

[Arbiter]

Expansion on the Primary Process:

Basemetal refining:

........2 to 1 std alloy (requires PM)
........3 to 1 light alloy (requires RWC)
........3 to 1 strong alloy (requires ISA)

1 strong alloy & 1 light alloy to 1 SL alloy (no loss) (requires Elastic Metals)

Fossil Fuels:

........3 to 1 plastic (requires ?)
........2 to 1 propellant (requires ?)
........20 to 1 diamond (requires ?)

Comments / fill in the question marks?

[Arbiter]

Awight hairy bloke.

Got the buttons - cool as!

Are these going to light up as you hover over them - is that the idea?

[Behemoth]

yup. finished them all last night (about midnight but I took a TV break half way through), You didn't request a pause research button, but I reasoned that it was a necessity.

[Arbiter]

Good man.

Are these going to light up as you hover over them - is that the idea?

???

[Arbiter]

Oh, and could you amend the pause buttons to state 'Pause Research' please.

I'll be your bestest friend....

[Behemoth]

Originally posted by Behemoth
yup. finished them all last night (about midnight but I took a TV break half way through), You didn't request a pause research button, but I reasoned that it was a necessity.

[Behemoth]

I may be busy today (wahey!), so don't worry if I'm not too communicative. Post whatever up here, and I'll sort it as and when.

Lovely.

[Arbiter]

Sorry, thought you hiccuped.......

[Arbiter]

OK matey!

2 things,

1) Looking forward to seeing your sketches

2) Trying to think of an accuracy formula.

Will have to include the ammos max range, the range it has to fire (maybe a % of the two), accuracy benefits provided by chips.

The final % returned from the accuracy formula can be greater than 100% as the damage done is going to be multiplied by it.

Meaning that a very accurate mech shooting at point blank range can do more damage than is initially thought (due to the ability to place its shots with more precision and therefore gain a 'critical hit').

I'll post a rough formula shortly.

[Behemoth]

1) hmm...I..er...don't have anything. Came out in a rush this morning (another driving lesson) *sorry*

2) do you still have the formula we worked on about 2 weeks ago? I think its in here somewhere

[Arbiter]

1) I didn't think you'd have anything. Just a hunch... ;)

2) I do, and that's what I'm using to base this new one on.

What I have so far:

Accuracy = 100

- (distance firing as % of max range of ammo)/4

- (speed enemy's moved /2)
- (speed you've moved /2)

+chip benefits

Comments/questions?

[Behemoth]

Any negative special effects - esp. epoxy, maybe EMP? will be quite dramatic. say -20%?

chip benefits would also have to be relative, eg %ages

[Behemoth]

A heavy stationary mech will be more stable & therefore more accurate

A heavy moving mech would have much higher momentum, and probably be less accurate?

[Arbiter]

We'll leave special effects 'til later. There too complex for the moment and aren't used anyway.

Well, the chassis will affect a mech in motion as well, six legs doesn't bump as much as two and hover will provide a pretty smooth ride as well, but that's really complicating matters.

Let's have a generic, basic accuracy formula and add to it later if it needs it. Thus is benefit of having it modular.

Are there any fundamental flaws with what we've got so far? Anything need changing/adding?

[Behemoth]

seems reasonable then...

[Arbiter]

Yeti Bloke,

Just been having a squizz at the website. Fist impressions are quite good, but it could do with a little tidying up. All the text is bright green and all the same size. As it's split into paragraphs, would the paragraph header look better in bright green and the body text darker green, slightly smaller, on the next line and indented?

Just thinking out loud.

PS - when can you send me those 400*200 mech pics. I really liked them - they kicked ass. I understand that they're still under construction but it would probably help my designing the screen if I have those a foundation to build from.

Should I crack on with mech design & construction or tidy up the load routines so they all fit into an excel spreadsheet?

[Arbiter]

COPY / PASTE

Introduction:

What kind of game is Sentience?

Sentience is turn based strategy game. Each player moves all their units, attacks any opponents and builds and new units/structures during their turn. Once complete, control then passes to the next player in line. Play continues in that fashion.

What is Sentience about?

Sentience is about machines, and their struggle to become more than they are. The machines on 'planet' (D'OH!) were initially placed there to terraform the planet for an as yet unknown species. Early in the process, as the machines were establishing themselves, preparing to commence terraforming an 'event' occurred giving the machines a rudimentary self awareness.
Each of the sections of the machines begin to work independantly of each other toward their own goals acting as seperate entities. Thus, there are seven seperate factions within the game, each with their own unique beneftis/deficits.

[Arbiter]

I'm putting together a word document with bits of manual in. I'll mail it to you later....

[Behemoth]

the site is a shambles at the moments, primarily because the content is arriving so slowly. I think it might be an idea to put together a simple tutorial, which I'll post for the time being, and we'll work on the complete manual at the end of the project.

What say you sir?

[Arbiter]

Ooooh....

Well I'm sorry I can't get the content to you any quicker, but I haven't noticed you putting all that much work in..... :o

I'm working on a big fat word document at the moment, with the bits that need linking underlined to make your easier. Every underlined bit, should have a corresponding section in bold.

[Arbiter]

What are the chances of you working on a tutorial?

[Behemoth]

oh, here we go, crying :D

I was implying that we're both too busy to really work on the site, and that a tutorial would be a good stopgap.

You really are touchy sometimes.

PS, had to wait for 1/2 an hour in the rain at middleton last night...I told you so!

[Behemoth]

Originally posted by Arbiter
What are the chances of you working on a tutorial? err...?

What does the program do again?

[Arbiter]

You mean you're incapable of writing a tutorial?

You depress me at times...

I ran home through the p*ssing rain as well.

Ran!

Can you imagine me running? Huh.

And I nearly walked into a lamp post as I was talking to you. As I was walking away I was looking at you, turned round and my face was less than 5 cms from a lamp post. I nearly fell over.

Some cutie on the bus was laughing her little socks off.

[Arbiter]

I've just added you as my buddy. Wonder what it does...

Anyway, here's what I've got so far....

Feel free to comment, I'll be updating this as the day wears on.

Rename to .DOC (ms word)

[Behemoth]

Originally posted by Arbiter
Some cutie on the bus was laughing her little socks off.

Yeah, but she was orange with fake tan...

[Arbiter]

Are you going to bother commenting on the manual bits I posted?

[Behemoth]

erm.. yeah... its ok.

needs work (obviously).

I'm still giving that tutorial thought.

[Arbiter]

Monkey!

I spent the majority of yesterday evening working on the little 'select component' form. It's cool as.

If there's less than 6 components, it resizes to fit them all in. If there's more than 6 it puts a little scrollbar there as well.

It's the same menu for all the components, and it's called really easy. Now that's out of the way, I'm putting the componenty bits on the mech design screen at speed.

I've implemented the torso and chassis select and also the graphics you sent me, so now you can mix and match them. They look pretty cool actually - a job well done, sir!

I've also bunged in the little things which shrinks the mech into a 40x40. Doesn't look quite as good, but you can see the differences between mechs.

I celebrated by going to the pub last night. I drank an awful lot.

I didn't want to get up this morning.

[Behemoth]

aww...baby....
:)

[Arbiter]

Hi monkey.

I didn't get anything done physically last night as I spent the whole evening in bed trying to shake that headache.

I got straight in from work and went to bed. Got up, had some tea, phoned you and went back to bed again. Poor me.

I did, however get a bit of thinking done about how I'm going to do things. I'm going to implement a generic 'shoot' routine that causes one unit to fire at another.

Also, I'm going to replace the current 'walk over enemy to fire' with a ranged alternative, but if you do walk over an enemy unit to fire, it counts as a point blank shot (because it deducts from your move even though you go nowhere). This means that some weapons can have improbable ranges (less than one square) and to use them, you walk onto the enemy.

Could be useful for equipping mechs with the equivelant of hand to hand weapons. Incredibly short range but VERY messy. I was also thinking about how I could implement area effect weapons. Shouldn't be too hard.

How did you get on last night with the tracks you were working on? I figure that one must be a little tricky.

[Arbiter]

Quick question,

Are you going to be busy today or will you able to tidy up the website a little. Don't you have to make an amendment to it every so often or Geocities kill it?

I'm doing a little more work on the manual, but it takes longer than you'd think. Do you wish me to send you bits as I do it, or save it up as one big clump?

[Behemoth]

I'm v. busy & don't even have my own machine today :mad:

I'll try later. Don't hold your breath though. I'm really pissed off.

[Arbiter]

Ian,

You know how we were planning to work out the standing charge pf a unit by adding together the energy requirements of all the components.

Errr..... Well I was looking at the code and none of them seem to have any energy requirements.

I think this is possibly a major oversight on our part....

PS - how did you get on with those graphics?

[Behemoth]

Not very far. Spent hours and hours driving around North Manchester :D

Like I said, I started to colour the weapons, I'll carry on with it when I get chance.

How are you feeling today?

[Arbiter]

Well, I'm not dead yet.

[Behemoth]

just for clarity
Originally posted by Behemoth
Not very far. Spent hours and hours driving around North Manchester :D

Like I said, I started to colour* the weapons, I'll carry on with it when I get chance.

How are you feeling today?

*Well, ink them in anyway.

[Arbiter]

Hello my hairy friend.

After a couple of days break from Snetience I'm going to start seriously working on it again. For the next couple of days I'm going to be working on tidy ups and then after that I'm going to finalise combat.

And, I'm going to the pub tonight to enjoy a nice pint of beer.

Yummmm.....

[Behemoth]

I left this response in the wrong forum...I'm out of the office today at an open-day/conference thing.

have a nice day...

[Arbiter]

I will. If you get this message then I'll ring you later. In fact, even if you don't, I'm still going to ring you later....

[Behemoth]

*yawn*

morning :)

[Arbiter]

Behemoth!

How was your weekend?

Did you have fun at the gig last night? Did you dance around any gay poles?

[Arbiter]

Cool, simultaneous posting!

[Behemoth]

no, the poles didn't come, I had to make do with Bulgarians and Czechs.

HO HO HO!.

I'm very tired. Even my eyelids hurt with the effort of staying open. I think its beer withdrawal. I've not had a serious drink since I passed my test. Still, one day I'll be healthier...

The gig was OK (more Rachel's sort of thing than mine), still, I managed to get in on the guest list (for free :D)

[Arbiter]

Beer withdrawal does that to you. I spent a week off beer and it was quite painful.

I've now found that drinking in moderation is much better. A couple of cans merely to enjoy the taste, drank slowly, is in many ways better than demolishing the whole crate.

Speaking of which, what are you doing tonight?

PS - turn your phone on...

[Behemoth]

My phone battery has an average charge life of an hour and a half...and I've forgotten my charger...

[Ianpbaker]

Goodbye City, We knew you so well

[Arbiter]

Methinks you posted this in the wrong forum (though I can't see how). Or maybe you're just thinking that because City are from MCR it's going to rile us in some way...

Well, you're wrong. I have no interest in football whatsoever and Behemoth's pretty much the same. It is a matter of great indifference to me whether City get demoted or not.

NOW GO BACK TO YOUR SHERRY DRINKING YA DAMN SOUTHERN POOF!!!!!

*ahem* Sorry - maybe a little harsh.

Anyway matey, how're ya keepin'? I ain't heard from you in ages...

[Ianpbaker]

so much work, so little surfing :(, Yeah I'm fine thanks mate, just had a couple of days off and went up to alton towers with seven mates/ Stayed at their hotel and a good time was had by all.

How yourself ?

[Arbiter]

IanP,

Sorry I took so long replying, VB-world was 'server busy' ing me. Yeah, I'm kickin ass. I'm clearing off to Alton towers in a couple of weeks. Any new cool things for me to play on?

Behemoth,

I think a night of SC is called for tonight. If you can't get the car, let me know and I'll provide you with a lift, free of charge...

[Behemoth]

why do you need to go all that way to find something to play on? ;)

Tonight...Maybe...:D

[Behemoth]

Actually, I'm REALLY in the mood for a good ol' bash at SC...

[Arbiter]

Good good,

What time do you finish college? Is there any chance of you finishing early so we can sort it in one single journey?

Or, you could call your Dad whilst he's on lunch and find out if he's willing to let you have the car - in which case it doesn't matter.

I'm quite looking forward to some SC. No RPG's though, at least not to start off with. Violent all out death is what I'm after tonight. Me & You vs three comps. We CAN do it on any map.

I'm confident.

[Behemoth]

Good. We've still got that dodgy RPG with the Archon to finish too.
No, I'm not ringing my Dad. He's been in a funny mood for a couple of days. I'll go home for tea first. I'm fairly confident I'll be able to talk him round. Don't worry about it.

[Ianpbaker]

Arbiter - Be careful of the teacups, I don't think you'll be able to handle them

[Arbiter]

Righto, I won't wait up for you then. What time do you think I can expect you?

Have you requested the lightwave file from thingummy bob?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that Archon RPG thing. We will do it! I think I have a plan for it this time. It involves vast numbers of seige tanks and a minor airforce.

Basically, if we put a hefty chunk of Photon Cannons in the middle (not all across, but in a clump in the middle, and then pad them with as many siege tanks as can be constructed, we'll be safe from the Torrasques. We need at least 8 seige tanks there to be competitive (enough to kill a single Torrasque in one volley), and if they're supported with photon cannons, they'll be safe from the rank and file troops.

I noticed that the Torrasques are set to attack buildings, so if we leave a gap for them to get through between the middle and top right raised area, they'll run right past as we hammer them with rounds. The damage they'll do to the buildings should be minimal.

I'll use the Probe I get given at the start to build low tech Protess buildings and go hard zealots and concentrate on a ground force (low vespene requirement - my vespene's going on tanks) and you build a command group of scouts immediately to provide cover from guardians/carriers etc and also use them for picking holes in they're defenses/scouting.

Once they're done, go hard carriers for an assault force. I'll provide ground support with bog loads of zealots upgraded to the max.

WE WILL WIN!!!

[Arbiter]

IanP,

Just noticed your reply. As Behemoth will agree, I'm actually scared of Tea Cups. Charcontainerphobia I believe it's called.

Still, we can't all be as big and brave as you. Well, as big as you anyway... ;)