Only a month in office...

[Jeff_1]

And george w. bush is already proposing a plan to give all our tax dollars to the rich.

And george w. bush had this to say about california's electrical crisis "It is there problem..let them handle it themselves"

And george w. bush authroizes an air strike on iraq.
What a complete nincumpoop.
It is people like him that cause all the vietnam's and somalia's in the world..and it is people like him that are leading this country.

And george w. bush is closing the even Narrower gap between church and state.

I wouldnt doubt it one bit if he causes one of these things to occur:
1)World War 3 ( i very sincerely hope not )
2)A type of regional conflict
3)Another depression


I cant believe this nitwit is our president.

[Active]

What wrong the People of Iraq Did ? Why should They Be punished ?

And to attack them on their holy day is a shame !

[amesjustin]

The people of Iraq are for the most part innocent. Even if it is against 'National Law', we should have had Saddam assassinated before the first Desert Storm. That would have saved millions of dollars, and thousands of lives (I am including the deaths attributed to the Gulf War Syndrome - I have lost a few friends to that) - AND gotten the job done. Now 10 years later we are STILL having to deal with this maniac.

Bombing the people is no solution. Just Saddam.

[nukem996]

If Bush cause or starts to cause one of those thing I hope we inpeach him. Let the republicans see how it feels.

[Jeff_1]

We had good ole billy boy who was going to be impeached because of alternate affairs with other women... now we have dumbass bush part 2 who killed innocent people and what happens to him? nothing..nothing at all.

And what makes it really bad , is this twit bush is our represenative to the rest of the world.

[nukem996]

The entire world has become Americanized cause we'er so great. I heard theres a Beger King in or next to the Ifel tower, in Paris.

I heard that Bush is going to do what his supporers say. If its good or not. And that thing that he says that hes going to explore Alaska for gas, but not desorty any of it, ITS BULL $H!T!!! He should leave it alone and we should all go biomass or electric.

[Jeff_1]

i dont know about us being so"great" nukem.

Granted i love all the freedom and opportunity that this country provides for us...but i think the imbalance of stupid people to people with common sense has turned... ( or will! ) turn this country to ****.

[nukem996]

Is that American things are going every where, and people are going with the american things.

[Zaphod64831]

I think this whole energy crisis could be solved VERY easily if we did one thing, concentrate more on space. Did you know that there is a substance on the moon so abundant that it could literally power the entire world for 1 year on a SINGLE SHUTTLELOAD? It's almost nonpollutant too. The name of the substance escapes me for the moment but I can post that later if anyone's interested.

[nukem996]

Well, if we could harvest lighting engery we could power New York City for three years(about that). Lets get started on figering out how to do this.

CA earthquake: what ever happend to that? I heard around now CA should be going into the ocean.

[Jeff_1]

It was supposed to happen in late 99..but thank god it didnt..if that big earthquake hits and los angeles sinks in the ocean...so will i! :(

Zaphod when you find the name of that substance..post it.

[nukem996]

They keep saying it's going to happen the next summer that it dosen't happen. :D

[Jeff_1]

Are "they" the tabloids?

[nukem996]

Scientists

[Jeff_1]

Seismologists?

Seismologists = Earthquake scientists.. :rolleyes:


hehe sorry just had to do that!

They never said that los angeles was going to break apart and sink into the pacific ocean..they just said that "the big one" could hit at any time.

[nukem996]

o

[Active]

To have a Potential fuel that could efectively replace the
organic fuels we use today....we need not go to the
moon. Infact the replacement is very much on the earth.
It is none other than water which is abundant in our planet.

WATER as we know is H2O .
Has both the fuel(hydrogen) and the Oxidisier(oxygen).

And the Combustion exhaust is nothing but water vapour. (safe when compared Carbon Monoxides,SO2)

The stumbling block is the separation of hydrogen and oxygen
from water at low costs.

There are a many scientists involved in the research.
One such ... is here..

http://www.watertofuel.com/

Wish them Best of Luck !

It's not that hard to seperate the H and the O. I've done it before. You just use a DC power supply, and connect a carbon rod and an iron rod to the negative and positive wires(I'm not sure which type of rod goes on which wire). Then you just put the two in water. You may have to add a little salt so it can become electrolitic. But don't add too much salt, or it may start to generate chlorine gas(deadly) :eek:

I've never really thought about it much... but, that method shouldn't cost too much, right?

[Jeff_1]

Where did you learn do to that? was it from your chemistry class?

[Active]

Let Me clarify..

The actual cost Swells not in their Separation but
associated with their storage.

Consider This....Water has to be stored without
it being Evaporated. At 100 degrees centigrade
Water changes State to a Vapour form. And in
conventional design of the automobiles this
temperature can be easily reached.

Also the Water should be purified before putting
it to use. If they contain traces of impurities they
result in ineficiencies and may release dangerous
gases.

And Most importantly...
hydrogen can be stored as compressed gas,
cryogenically cooled liquid, or through the absorption of
a surface. Despite these methods, storing enough
hydrogen to power a car requires a large tank. With
the current technology, the compressed hydrogen tank
size required to contain 6.8 kg hydrogen for a 1500 kg
vehicle with a driving range of 560 km is 340 L at 25
MPa. A typical gasoline tank for such a vehicle is 70 L.
Thus, the challenge today is to discover a way to store
enough compressed hydrogen in the vehicle without
consuming too much space.

There exists solutions for this...but they are really
expensive and not the right one for u and me.

[simonm]

I think most people in his country were disapointed with another Bush in the whitehouse.

Isn't America right-wing enough? Why did he get in anyway? I know Al Gore is not supposed to have much personality but so what? If we (in my country) waited for a candidate for priminister who had personality, we would be waiting for ever!

Britain is becoming very 'Americanised' and it upsets me. Not that I resent everything American, indeed there are many things I like about it, it's just that we get all the bad things as well. Many traditional aspects of our culture have been severely undermined by american imports and it's not because it's a 'better' culture, it's just that it is more accessable and better marketed than our own.

What I really want to know, is: when will an American president get elected who gives a s**t about the environment?

[HarryW]

Water as a fuel? I don't think so, not if you're just oxidising the hydrogen. That just converts it back to water. To make energy out of that would be against the law of conservation of energy.

[Active]

Harry... you have All Rights to be a Skeptic.

But Please visit the URL I mentioned Earlier.

[HarryW]

Okay, I visited the site, and it seems that he is proposing to use the gaseous hydrogen or hydrogen/oxygen mixture to power internal combustion engines. The reason for the water seems to be primarily as storage for the hydrogen, since it is smaller in volume when it's in water.

What I couldn't work out from that site, though, is how he proposes to power the electrolysis necessary to split the molecules. To seperate out that much hydrogen is going to require a lot of energy... where is it going to come from?

[nukem996]

I learned about this in science and I had a big test on it, I A it as usaly I do. If we use biomass, we don't have to dump waste products. We can use the waste products as fule.

Originally posted by Jeff_1
Where did you learn do to that? was it from your chemistry class?

I don't have chemistry until next year... I just find this stuff very interesting, so I bought a few chemistry books... but that was about two years ago... I don't read those books much anymore(probably because I read them each about two times).

I always thought it was general knowledge :confused:

[Jeff_1]

I was just curios... that stuff is pretty interesting.

[Active]

Originally posted by HarryW
To seperate out that much hydrogen is going to require a lot of energy... where is it going to come from?

Harry... I suggest you read this.
http://colossus2.cvl.bcm.tmc.edu/~wje/free_energy/meyer.html

By the Way Electrolysis is not the only Way to Split !
There are Other Ways.

http://www.hasslberger.com/tecno/tecno_3.htm

[HarryW]

I had already read the patent information.

Are you trying to tell me that the law of conservation of energy is, in fact, wrong?

[Active]

Harry I doubt Whether You read the Patent Documentation Completely.
It is Explained in the Document.


Water in the fuel cell is subjected to a
pulsating, polar electric field produced by the electrical circuit
whereby the water molecules are distended by reason of their
subjection to electrical polar forces of the capacitor plates.


The polar pulsating frequency applied is such that the pulsating
electric field induces a resonance in the molecule. A cascade effect
occurs and the overall energy level of specific water molecules is
increased in cascading, incremental steps.

The hydrogen and oxygen atomic gases, and other gas components
formerly entrapped as dissolved gases in water, are released when
the resonant energy exceeds the co-valent bonding force of the water
molecule.



Talking about the Law of Conservation Of Energy....
What about The Nuclear Bombs ?
Do you think We could Input the amount of energy the Explosion Liberates ?

Simply Put, The Meyer's Idea is analogous to the Nuclear Chain reaction
But in this case it is Electrical energy.
Sorry ! I cannot be Simpler than that.

[nukem996]

None of you knew about biomass. In 7th grade by NJ law you have to know it.

[SteveCRM]

We never learned it :(

[nukem996]

Good. I don't think the rest of them knew since they just ignored it.

Why is it good that Steve didn't know about the biomass?

and, I learned about it in the 7th grade..... but, I just wanted to ignore you...

Originally posted by nukem996
None of you knew about biomass.


Why do you say we know nothing about biomass!?!?! this is one of the ****ing annoying things i hate about you d**khead

just because we didnt reply to it doesnt mean we dont know wat it is! the reason why a lot of people ignored it is

1) It was not appropriate in the converstion

2) A ****ing d**khead posted it

pukem... go get ****ing beat asswipe!!!!!!

[Jeff_1]

Nukem: "No one knew about biomass that is why they ignored the post"

I dont know about biomass..i admit it...but if a dumbass like nukem knows it..it must not be a hard subject.

[barrk]

Okay....what is biomass? It's not a crime to admit that you don't know something...it's a crime to pretend you do when you don't!!!!!!!!!

I can't explain it very well, but here is the definition from dictionary.com

The total mass of living matter within a given unit of environmental area.

[barrk]

Thanks, Dennis. A nice, concise definition! I appreciate it!

[Active]

Producing hydrogen from biomass involves either biological or chemical conversion of the biomass. The biological process generally involves a number of stages to produce a hydrocarbon from which hydrogen is extracted. The hydrocarbon is produced by anaerobic digestion while the hydrogen extraction typically involves steam reforming. This last part of the process is the main hurdle for biological processes because steam reforming requires large mounts of energy that make the process uneconomical. Generally, biomass is considered to be a distributed energy source, produced and processed close to where it is harvested. Small-scale steam reforming becomes very costly because of inability to recover the heat from the steam, and the dominance of capital outlay costs for the reformer. Chemical conversion of biomass, besides being expensive, produces emissions in the form of tars, phenols and acids. Candidate biomass materials include: a) crops grown specifically to generate hydrogen; b) animal wastes; c) human wastes of which sewage and industrial wastes from foods or chemical processes are a possibility. The key to improving efficiency was felt to lie in shortening the lifecycle of candidate biomass materials.


Source : Hydrogen Workshop
November 14th 1999, Vancouver, BC
British Columbia Institute of Technology

[HarryW]

Hmm, biomass, not that exciting really.

On the subject of this water power thing: I had read it, I just didn't realise that was explaining the power source :rolleyes: I am well aware of the energy changes (including source and destination of energy) in nuclear fission and nuclear fusion, and I have a reasonably good knowledge of particle physics, though I'm not an expert. I don't want you to be simpler, I think I need a more technical explanation. You start with plain water, right? After you burn the fuel, your waste product is plain water, correct? Are there equal quantities of water input and output?

[Active]

Can You Explain ....
At What Statement you really feel like ...
All this is a Hoax . ??? ?

I am Willing to Explain ! :)

[HarryW]

The reason I am so sceptical is because I have heard of schemes like this before, and they have been proven to be useless. It seems very odd that you could split water up, burn the hydrogen, resulting in identical quatities of water as you started with but having gained energy from nowhere by burning the hydrogen.

If there is a reduction in mass or there is some external energy source I have not noticed I can accept that it might be possible since it would not go against the law of conservation of energy.

[Active]

>>It seems very odd that you could split water up, burn
>>the hydrogen, resulting in identical quatities of
>>water as you started with but having gained energy
>>from nowhere by burning the hydrogen.

The Energy is not from SomeWhere.
It is the Chemical Energy Stored in a H2O covalent
Bonded Molecule.

By Inducing the Breakage of this bond by say..Electrolysis (You need a Power Source for this but it is lesser in Magnitute than the final Output as a Whole)
We could release a Quantity of Energy.

again repeating this :
The polar pulsating frequency applied is such that the pulsating
electric field induces a resonance in the molecule. A cascade effect
occurs and the overall energy level of specific water molecules is
increased in cascading, incremental steps

all this still at the same Power Input.

>>If there is a reduction in mass or there is some >>external energy source I have not noticed I can >>accept that it might be possible since it would not go >>against the law of conservation of energy.

The Hydrogen recombines with oxygen during Combustion to Give out Energy + water Vapour. The Heat Generated in the Process drives an Engine.

No..Mass is not converted to Energy anywhere.

[Active]

By The Way...
If You have US$25 You can Buy plans for a simple device that You can use to power small
Loads like a Lawnmower...

at
http://www.futurehorizons.net/fuel.htm

[barrk]

Very cool stuff Active. Thanks for the information!

[HarryW]

So you are saying that the energy comes from nowhere? I'm sorry, but that goes against one of the fundamental principles of physics as we know it. I don't believe it. Frankly, it's silly.

[Active]

* Active Bangs his Head by the Nearest Wall *

For i = 0 to Infinity
MsgBox "The Energy is released ! because it's an Exothermic Reaction !"
Next

[HarryW]

Look, if I've misunderstood then it's because you're not explaining it properly. Which reaction are you talking about? Be specific when you explain!

[HarryW]

You CANNOT start with just water, split it into hydrogen and oxygen, oxidise the hydrogen and be left with the same quantity of water, and surplus energy. It's against the rules of physics. It makes no sense.

[amesjustin]

I find 2 things very odd about this thread:

1: It started off as a political commentary, evolved into a chemistry / physics lesson, then evolved again into the Jerry Springer Show (minus the toothless sibling lovers cheating with their pets on the trailer floor, of course).

2: I actually spent 10 minutes reading the entire post.

-justin

[parksie]

Well, for #2...if you will insist on reading this drivel :p