IS VS2008 Express edition any good?

[FunkyDexter]

I'm currently using 2005 Professional edition. The company I work for isn't keen on shelling out for a 'proper' copy of 2008 when, in their eyes, I have a perfectly good IDE (oh, how I wish I worked for a nice understanding software house instead of direct for the client :rolleyes:). I might be able to get them to stump up £200 odd quid for the standard edition but even that's going to raise an eyebrow or two. So I'm considering just downloading express.

I guess my question is, will I gain more benefit from upgrading from 2005 to 2008 than I will lose from downgrading from Professional to Express?

Are there any key features or functionality that I'm likely to miss? 90% of what I do is a VB front end over SqlServer back end. There's also a web module written in ASP.Net using VB.Net. Presumably I just need the visual basic download and the web developer download. Do these work freely together?

Any other general input folks could give would be apreciated.

[Jenner]

Probably the biggest thing is whether or not you use Crystal Reports with your front-end. Express doesn't have CR. Otherwise, it's awesome.

[FunkyDexter]

I don't use CR at all so I guess that's a yes vote. Keep 'em coming:D

[Hack]

Awesome with a capital AWESOME.

One of the cool features is that 2008 comes with resizing on Forms. You don't have to relay on code or third party controls anymore.

There are other things as well, but that is one of my favorites!

Make the switch!

BTW: I have both 2005 Pro and 2008 Express on the same machine, and there is no problems.

(And I would try to convince them to pony up for the upgrade price for the pro edition :D )

[techgnome]

One of the cool features is that 2008 comes with resizing on Forms.
Eh? Hasn't vb.net Always had that? Using the Anchor & Dock properties, I've been able to handle just about any resizing I've needed.

-tg

[Hack]

Eh? Hasn't vb.net Always had that? Using the Anchor & Dock properties, I've been able to handle just about any resizing I've needed.

-tgAnchor and Autosizing.....having the controls resize themselves when you resize the form. If that has been a part of prior .NET releases, then I missed it until I started playing around with 2008.

[FunkyDexter]

OK, we're definitely headed in a Yes direction. Unless I hear any horror stories I think I'll try installing it after I finish my current project cycle.

[RobDog888]

Anchor and Autosizing.....having the controls resize themselves when you resize the form. If that has been a part of prior .NET releases, then I missed it until I started playing around with 2008.
Yea it was in 2005 first.

The 2008 Express version is great and it will give you a taste of the new features in 3.5 like LINQ, WPF, WCF etc. Plus you can target any of the last 3 framework versions (2.0, 3.0, 3.5) and 2008 can still open 2005 projects so there is no real need to keep using 2005 anymore.

[Jenner]

LINQ is the dog's [Removed by Mod]. I use it for just about everything now.

[Hack]

LINQ is the dog's [Removed by Mod].I honestly and truly do not want to know what this means.

[RobDog888]

Its a term that shouldnt be used on a family forum. ;)

Google it and you will find its meaning

[CodedFire]

Definitions of bullock on the Web:

* young bull
* castrated bull
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Bullock, or Bullock Drive, is a Vivastation on York Region's Viva bus rapid transit system, north of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. It opened on October 16, 2005, at the intersection of Bullock Drive and Highway 7 in Markham, Ontario. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullock (VIVA)

* (1.) The translation of a word which is a generic name for horned cattle (Isa. 65:25). It is also rendered "cow" (Ezek. 4:15), "ox" (Gen. 12:16).
www.godweb.org/blT0000600.htm

Damn i really need a spell checker :) Sorry i had to!

[RobDog888]

Search it on wikipedia and you will get a totally different translation :D

[CodedFire]

I didnt realise the to words where so "close" to each other.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Very nice. I learn things in code and I learn things in the English language as well. Who would have ever thought that the word used to mean priest.

[CodedFire]

Were did you get that from?

[scott.brady]

The only downside to using the express editions that I can see is that support for multi-project solutions is limited.

Regards

Scott

[FunkyDexter]

support for multi-project solutions is limitedOK, what does that mean? Most everything I do is multi-project so that could be a serious issue to me.

[RobDog888]

Well as compared to the other versions of VB.NET, Express is limited depending on your level of knowledge and use.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/products/cc149003.aspx (click the expand all)

No Crystal Reports and limited database and other important features could be an issue for most developers.

[FunkyDexter]

Thanks for the link Rob. Actually, looking through the comparison there are a few missing features that could be a problem. I notice it doesn't support reporting services which we use quite heavily. Also, I noticed that it doesn't support creating Guids. Is that referring to the Guid.NewGuid construct? because I use that ALOT.

I haven't looked all the way through it yet but most of my key areas look to be covered.

[Jenner]

Oops, sorry about that. Yea, I know the meaning. I figured the language filter would wipe it if it was deemed too inappropriate, regardless of the nationality it was from. Most of us colonials wouldn't bat an eye at it though. :)

(Guess the three years I spent across the pond seriously affected the way I talk to Brits. After the first three months, you'd have thought me a native. :D )

[techgnome]

I think that GUID is reference to a tool that might be in the IDE, not the language. Also the limited database functionality again references the tools in the IDE, not the language. If you code the database connections & queries yourself, there's no limit to what you can connect to.

It should be noted that any limitations is in the TOOLS, the IDE, the FEATURES that are available, NOT IN THE LANGUAGE! Major difference. The VB.NET language available in Express editions is the FULL VB.NET language, not a stripped down one (like the way VBA and VBScript were).

-tg

[FunkyDexter]

If you code the database connections & queries yourself, there's no limit to what you can connect to. Now THAT's what I wanted to hear:D

To be honest, I'm one of those folks that tends to be more comfortable with code rather than ide tools so, provided the language is a full version then I can't see a good reason not to try it. Hopefully I'll have time in the next couple of days.


After the first three months, you'd have thought me a native.Yes. It's amazing how rapidly one's teeth decay when residing in blighty. What ho.

[Hack]

I'm one of those folks that tends to be more comfortable with code ratherPraise the Lord!! Lets us all join hands and banish all bound controls to the deepest, darkest, regions of Hades. :D

[techgnome]

Ohnononono... Actually bound controls NOW are (or can be) a good thing.... or at least a better thing. Mostly because now, they don't have to be bound to that abomination known as the ADODC... they can be bound to just about ANY object. Even your custom classes. It sure as heck beats writing tons of code that moves data from the class into the textboxes, combos, etc, and back again. Plus it means that you can implement the validation right into the class, letting the object take care of that, increasing reusability while reducing the code that has to be copied and moved from project to project.

-tg

[FunkyDexter]

I have started using databinding for simple controls (textboxes, combos etc) and it's not half bad in .net. Also, grids an lists are OK to databind for display only. I still find editable grids to be a pain in the bovines though.

[RobDog888]

Yes TG is correct and thanks for pointing that out. :)

If you can get by with writting your own code to replace those missing features then you should be fine with Express although the reporting services and CR do not have a work around AFAIK (definately sure on CR but SQL RS may have some functionality if you use the full SQL Server and not Express).

szlamany would be a good member to ask on the SQL part of express. ;)

[FunkyDexter]

OK, I finally got around to installing and trying out 2008 express (it's been a busy time lately) and... erm... HEELLLPPPP!!!!!!!

The first problem I've faced is that it can't find the source control provider. A bit of digging around and I realise that express edition doesn't integrate with source safe. OK, I thought, I can cope with that, I'll just use sourcesafe manually... except that when I look at the projects in source safe now, they're all empty.:eek:

The second problem I find is that it doesn't support set up projects. That's more of a problem as this is our standard build method. I can probably still find a way to work with it but I'd apreciate it if anyone could point me at a good tool for building msis.

The third problem is that there are one or two components written in C#, which is, of course, not integrated into the VB express edition. Presumably I'll be able to develop that separately using my old 2005 edition or download the C# express edition and use that. It is annoying that I'll need to go into a different enviroment though, and will tend to make unit testing a bit more onerous.


I guess what I'd really like to do (and possibly stupidly assumed I would be able to) is to be able to use the solution in 2005 pro while I'm getting used the way I'll need to work in 2008 express. Is anyone aware of a tool I can use to convert the project file back to 2005 with a minimum of fuss? I've googled around a bit and I can find some suggested solutions but they generally seem to involve hacking solution files in notes pad and stuff like that that I'd really rather avoid.

I'm going to try and talk the powers that be into stumping up for at least Standard edition (looks like that will handle the features I want) but in the meantime any advice/suggestions you guys can give me on the above would be greatly appreciated.


edit> OK, I sucked my teeth, held my breath and used the instructions on this site (http://home.hot.rr.com/graye/Articles/ProjectConverter.htm) to revert it back to 2005. It actually went very smoothly and even managed to recover enough information to put everything back into SourceSafe too. So crisis averted but I'm back to 2005 for now.

[RobDog888]

With the features you need it sounds like you really need to get them to buy the upgrade for you so that way it wont be as much.

[FunkyDexter]

Yeah, an upgrade would save a bit - the obstacle's getting them to spend any money at all though.

[RobDog888]

Put together a list of reason for them to buy the upgrade. Perhaps show them why you need the upgrade would make it easier for them to see the need.

[FunkyDexter]

Woohoo, they're stumping up for the standard version. Now if I can just persuade them to go with pro... I don't need the features but it would do my ego good :afrog:

I am quite surprised to learn that there is no upgrade path from standard to pro though.

[Hack]

Tell them that buying the standard version is kind of like buying a lambergini that has a Volkswagon engine under the hood.

If you are going to spring for the real thing, then get the real thing i.e., Pro...

[mendhak]

Or Team Suite with full TFS integration, unit test integration, automated builds, project management lifecycle. As Ali G would say, enterprise productivity 'propa'.

[FunkyDexter]

Well, I'm the only developer at the company as I work directly for the client who are a roofing and solar panels company (which is why this is such a tough ask for them - they don't have an understanding of the development process) so teamsuite's a bit redundant, project management support's a bit overkill, we use msi's and I believe Standard's still got the msi building projects and I can't even get them to give me an admin for a few hours a week to do some testing for me let alone stump up an extra 600 odd sovs for unit testing integration.

Mind you, I just brought their system down for nearly an hour due to rolling out a new version in which I'd forgotton to test that one critical function which really shouldn't have ben impacted by the latest changes:blush: So when the MD get's in tomorrow maybe I could argue for some testing support. Either that or I'll be arguing that I should be allowed to keep my job... Probably not, though, they kinda neeed me:)

I do like the idea of a lambo though, VW engine or not.:thumb:

[Dnereb]

BTW: Anchors and docking were already present in VB.Net 2003.

[FunkyDexter]

AAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH

Finally got Standard through and started bringing my projects across. All was going fine (apart from a few shafted references i was able to reset) until I tried to open the report project. I get the message that it doesn't recognise the rptproj project type. I can't see anything in the product comparisons that would identify this as a difference between Standard and Pro.

This has ben set up on a build machine for which the powers that be have decided to only install SQLServer Express. Before I finally break down and open a vein, is this because there's an extra component (ie reporting services) that I'm missing because of the cut down SQL Server or is this something that I need to get VS Pro for? If it's the former I'm OK becase my Dev machine (which is going to be rebuilt) will have a full version of SQL Server on. If it's the latter the I'll probably decide to end it all.:cry:

I've tried googling but I haven't managed to find anything that tells me for sure where this project ype comes from yet.


Edit> Finally managed to find some info in this discussion (http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2442576&SiteID=1). Kill me! Kill me now!!