microsoft .net or open source ?

[c-shark]

hello?
I m a developer with microsoft tools for over 16 years , for the last five years I m developing wuth .net .
now i m thinking about developer an application that i can sell on the net but the problem with developing such a tool is the cost of the licensing of the tools like sql server and .net developing kit .
do you think it will wise to start developing with open source tools ?
if so where can a start learing that ? I m intersting with developing web applications first the has database .

Thank you in advance .

[Hack]

I work for a commerical development company and all of our products use SQL Server as the backend. All of our clients already have SQL Server in house and all we do is setup our own database table structures. They have already take care of the necessary licensing fees with Microsoft.

You seem to have an application for development in mind. Who do you envision being your target audience?

[c-shark]

everybody whom wants to use my application online .

[Pradeep1210]

There are adequate open-source tools for .net environment if you are willing to break your love for Microsoft.
e.g.
SharpDevelop etc. instead of Ms Visual Studio
MySQL etc. instead of Ms SQL Server
OpenOffice etc. instead of Ms Office
etc. etc.

What I mean to say is that you will find an equivalent open-source component for any microsoft component you use.

Pradeep

[RhinoBull]

SharpDevelop etc. instead of Ms Visual Studio
MySQL etc. instead of Ms SQL Server
OpenOffice etc. instead of Ms Office

SharpDevelop? NO! - it lacks many functionalities especially in text editor - those things will annoy very quick.
MySQL? YES! - very solid database engine.
OpenOffice? Maybe...

[Paul M]

You have to remeber all the microsoft products are basically the standard for those open source alternatives anyway. SharpDevelop wouldn't exist if it weren't for C# or Visual Studio.

[Pradeep1210]

SharpDevelop? NO! - it lacks many functionalities especially in text editor - those things will annoy very quick.
MySQL? YES! - very solid database engine.
OpenOffice? Maybe...

My point here was not to compare any product with another, but just to provide some opensource alternatives. Obviously you can expect much better things from paid products.
But most frequently than not we don't use all the features of the paid products we buy. That's just a waste of money. e.g. How many of us have really used all the features the Visual Studio provides. So we should buy something only if we really feel it is worth the cost and there are no other free alternatives available to us.

Pradeep

[RhinoBull]

You have to remeber all the microsoft products are basically the standard for those open source alternatives anyway. SharpDevelop wouldn't exist if it weren't for C# or Visual Studio.

I am aware of that but can't understand why whould you substitute original ?
Budget problem? Save money or get Express Edition. That's how I see it anyways...

[mendhak]

hello?
I m a developer with microsoft tools for over 16 years , for the last five years I m developing wuth .net .
now i m thinking about developer an application that i can sell on the net but the problem with developing such a tool is the cost of the licensing of the tools like sql server and .net developing kit .
do you think it will wise to start developing with open source tools ?
if so where can a start learing that ? I m intersting with developing web applications first the has database .

Thank you in advance .

Allow your app to work with other databases. If using SQL Server is a necessity, then that would ideally imply that you're creating an enterprise level software. If you're creating an enterprise level software, then you shouldn't worry about such costs.

[Hack]

everybody whom wants to use my application online .

What kind of answer is this?

You have an application in mind that you want to develop.

The application you want to develop will do certain things.

Who, out there in the world, do you think would like something that does those certain things?

Example: I'm writing an application that tracks exam grades for high school students in all classes.

Are plumbers going to be my target audience?

[penagate]

Is the question about cost to the developer or cost to the client?

[c-shark]

Is the question about cost to the developer or cost to the client?

Thank you all for your answers but i would like to be more specific :
lets say i m building an application the people will download and work with and that application will cost the client only 10$ a month.
now lets say that sql server costs 3000$ and microsoft visual studio 2005 will cost 2500$ together 5500$ and thats before adding hosting fees and every year 2000$ for msdn .
Thats alot of money to pay for an application like this , i dont know if i will start as a freelancer and get more projects . I would like to do this at my spare time .

please provide me with your opinion.

[penagate]

Those are serious, big-budget tools.

Here's what I would do:

SQL Server: Replace with SQL Server 2005 Express. Free.

Visual Studio: Replace with Visual C# or Visual Basic.NET Express. Free. Also, you could code in Notepad and compile manually, but that gets tedious after the novelty wears off — in about, say, five minutes.

MSDN: The library is accessible online, and there is a downloadable Express version that can be used with the Express Edition IDEs. Free.

Hosting: No free replacement (unless you enter into some sort of partner arrangement with a hosting firm). But you've already cut out a huge chunk of cost, so this should be no drama.

Then, if or when you decide to become an actual small business at some point, look into an MSDN Action Pack subscription, which gets you access to the partner licencing program. This means cheap operating systems and development tools for you to play with (in-house only, though).

[c-shark]

i like the idea but there are alot of differences between the express and the pro,
Here are the differences :
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vst.../cc149003.aspx

what do you think i need to do ?

[Kasracer]

I am aware of that but can't understand why whould you substitute original ?
Budget problem? Save money or get Express Edition. That's how I see it anyways...

You have to remember SharpDevelop was originally conceived and developed during .Net 1.1 when there was no free version. The Express Editions didn't come until .Net 2.0.

Since then it's been used to create .Net / Mono applications on Windows, OS X and Linux so it's very useful now if you want to develop on another platform.

[techgnome]

i like the idea but there are alot of differences between the express and the pro,
Here are the differences :
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vst.../cc149003.aspx

what do you think i need to do ?

How do we know? It depends on what you need. If you are going to need the capabilities of the Enterprise, well, then you'll need to get it... and a server. Much of what's on the Enterprise will only run on a server. Express can be installed on jsut about anything. But onyl you can really decided if you need the capabilities of Enterprise (or Pro) vs Express. I've been using express at home to develop and app for a client, and so far, everythin works jsut fine with it.

-tg

[c-shark]

How do we know? It depends on what you need. If you are going to need the capabilities of the Enterprise, well, then you'll need to get it... and a server. Much of what's on the Enterprise will only run on a server. Express can be installed on jsut about anything. But onyl you can really decided if you need the capabilities of Enterprise (or Pro) vs Express. I've been using express at home to develop and app for a client, and so far, everythin works jsut fine with it.

-tg

today using the pro version i can create web app with c# , how will i do that with the express edition ? do i need the web developer kit to create a web app? does the c# express support only win apps ?

[techgnome]

YEs... if you want to create we apps, then you would need the WebDeveloperExpress....
When you posted that, I thought it was in reference to SQL Server, I didn't realize it was for the development tools (I had trouble access in the page for some reason)..

-tg

[RhinoBull]

Since then it's been used to create .Net / Mono applications on Windows, OS X and Linux so it's very useful now if you want to develop on another platform.

I don't see any point to that either - .Net is designed for MS Windows and that's the bottom line.
Why would someone want to use simulators, third party's tools when there is a much better original envorinment?!

Sorry pal.

[Kasracer]

I don't see any point to that either - .Net is designed for MS Windows and that's the bottom line.
Why would someone want to use simulators, third party's tools when there is a much better original envorinment?!

Sorry pal.

Well Mono isn't a simulator (it's a framework that runs just like .Net does on Windows) and was designed to make porting Windows applications easy to Linux and OS X. It's not the most ideal situation as it would be great if Microsoft created a linux / os x version themselves but it's a simple development environment that many programmers can understand.

Sure, .Net was created for Windows but if you look at the framework it's fairly platform independent in how it's structured. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't / couldn't go on other platforms. Microsoft encourages and even markets as such.

[penagate]

Sure, .Net was created for Windows but if you look at the framework it's fairly platform independent in how it's structured. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't / couldn't go on other platforms. Microsoft encourages and even markets as such.

Hmm... did you just... didn't you...?

[...] I am pointing out that the .NET Framework is not architected in a manner which is conducive to implementation on non-Microsoft platforms even though it is marketed as such.

[...]

Though I don't remember Microsoft ever marketing it as such.

[RhinoBull]

Well Mono isn't a simulator (it's a framework that runs just like .Net does on Windows) and was designed to make porting Windows applications easy to Linux and OS X...

Right! Use Java if you want it portable but again - don't suggest to use any simulators or replicas (you name it) for Microsoft products.
MS designs their tools to be used with their environment - WINDOWS.

...Sure, .Net was created for Windows...

Right! I rest my case now.


Regards.

[Kasracer]

Hmm... did you just... didn't you...?

I took your word for it

Right! Use Java if you want it portable but again - don't suggest to use any simulators or replicas (you name it) for Microsoft products.

Gah, Mono is not a simulator and as far as replicas go... I guess you don't drive anything but Fords?

Right! I rest my case now.

You're no fun

[penagate]

I took your word for it

That's dangerous!

[RhinoBull]

Gah, Mono is not a simulator and as far as replicas go... I guess you don't drive anything but Fords?

It's still a simulator because it "simulates" another environment ... and if "ford" and "quattroporte" are the same then you're right again but let's stay on topic - I think we are way off now.

[Kasracer]

It's still a simulator because it "simulates" another environment

What are you talking about? It doesn't simulate anything and works the sameway .Net works on Windows. Mono applications look native on Linux and almost native I believe on OS X so I can't see where any simulations are taking place.

[RhinoBull]

You think about it - Mono wouldn't be there if it wasn't for .Net framework. Right?
Therefore what comes after is simply a simulator/replicas/[you name it]. That's the end of it but you may continue to argue if you wish.

Regards.

[Kasracer]

You think about it - Mono wouldn't be there if it wasn't for .Net framework. Right?
Therefore what comes after is simply a simulator/replicas/[you name it]. That's the end of it but you may continue to argue if you wish.

Alright I'll quit (thread is becoming derailed anyway, heh) but I do not agree with your line of thinking. I would like to briefly mention that simulations and replicas are different (your post implies they are interchangeable) and, according to the webster dictionary, a simulation is either an attempt of deception (which Mono is not), a simulation of a physical system (Mono is not), or the imitative representation of the functioning of one system or process by means of the functioning of another (which I will concede that depending on how you're looking at this Mono could fit the definition but I don't believe it does entirely since its inter-workings and the output it creates (i.e. GUI) are different than .Net since it's using the OS' native GUI toolkit. Mono also has additions when compared to the .Net framework such as GTK#).

I also don't think you can say "Therefore what comes after is simply a simulator/replicas/[you name it]" otherwise you would be saying that cars of today are replicas or simulations of the Ford Model-T (or whichever car was the first car) or that all computers are simulations of a commador 64.

Mono has improved upon the .Net framework so it's somewhat of a different beast anyway. GTK# and other open-source implementations are built into Mono.

[mendhak]

By that logic, the Java Runtime Environment for anything but the Solaris OS is a simulator.

It's just a port of a framework to another platform.

A simulator is what you would use, for example, to code for a windows mobile device.

[KiwiDexter]

I work for a commerical development company and all of our products use SQL Server as the backend. All of our clients already have SQL Server in house and all we do is setup our own database table structures. They have already take care of the necessary licensing fees with Microsoft.

You seem to have an application for development in mind. Who do you envision being your target audience?

Share luxury.

We have to suppot IBM U2 dbs, Oracle, MS SQL, and of course MySQL. Another of our goals is to cut down on the friggin db flavours floating around this company, have almost done away with MS Access MUhahahahahaha

You can actually develop an open source asp or asp.net product, do a google on forum software for example a number of options available.