barrk/katie~!

Hi Katie. Never really spoken directly to you before.

Hi! :rolleyes:

[barrk]

Hi Matthew.

How's it going?

[paulw]

You're not now either...

This is not direct communication...

Cheers,

P.

[barrk]

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day...teach a man to fish...and he'll sit in the boat and drink beer!

[paulw]

Give a man a fish... and he'll just ask why you haven't bought the chips too!

P.

[Skeen]

Fish fingers are obviously the way forward though....
Great in sarnies

[barrk]

Hey Matthew. Just wanted to say that I'm am completely overwhelmed by your programming skills. You are the man! You should be very proud of yourself!

Wow Katie, you turned into a hot topic ;).

...your loved :rolleyes:.

Sherm is right. Fish stink. They're slimy. They have
scales. They f*** in drinking water. Chocolate does
nothing for them.

chocolate is definately better than fish.

Sherm

[kedaman]

Hehe Matt, probably not unusal, especially when it's unusual to have women around here, btw Katie, do you code much? I haven't met any female programmers yet! :)

[barrk]

I design and develop application for the F22 Advanced Tactical Fighter program for the US Air Force. Mostly programs to measure the flying qualities of the aircraft (i.e. ambient pressure, temperature at different atmospheres and mach during flight.)

BTW Fish is good "brain food". Makes you smart!

Damn katie, like I said, some people are advanced in more areas than others. The only games I ever made was a ping pong game and a shoot-em-up game where your a space ship on the bottom and space ships on top and you have to shoot them and they shoot back and you have to kill them all. Of course, as always, when i finished it, I played it a while, and like two days later, my computer crashed and I never saved it :(. So I lost the images and never bothered to make another one again.

I'm more into security programs, web browsers, internet programming, windows programming (file/folders), external applications, and some other stuff. Haven't made anything in a while though. Been so busy with skool and vb-world and work and life. Soon I will start making stuff again though :).

Wow, I'm talkative today. I barely ever talk in Chit Chat.
A woman's powers - it's all Katie :rolleyes:

[kedaman]

I design and develop application for the F22 Advanced Tactical Fighter program for the US Air Force. Mostly programs to measure the flying qualities of the aircraft (i.e. ambient pressure, temperature at different atmospheres and mach during flight.)

Wooh! That's impressing, are you making vb apps for them?

BTW Fish is good "brain food". Makes you smart!

yeah fish is the food or your ICQ, i mean IQ, heheh :)

[kedaman]

Hey Matt! I'm about to learn C++ as you probably noticed :) Well it's simply because i'm a game developer and i don't want to waste my projects on vb anymore. Well that doesn't mean i'm leaving VB, i'll use it for programming small apps and stuff that require a windows UI, i'm sure you can do it with C++ but i think it would be easier with VB.
Nice talking to you too :p

[barrk]

Matthew....I don't mean games...I mean the real aircraft.

We use VB for the front end only. All the data reduction is done in Oracle then passed through to a SQL Server.

[kedaman]

Front end design :) phew i thought it was something really complicated :) But i don't know much about databases, and still i get lots of ppl asking me database qwestions, lol.

[barrk]

The front end design was the hardest part for me. I am still learning VB. The design of the overall system was more my responsibility..I have the dream and force others to implement it! Making that dream a reality has been the challenge. I am part of a great team. It's a great design. The engineers seem happy with it but the front end is very generic at this point. They want it to be able to do everything short of flying the airplane...not part of the original requirements. Oh well, that's engineers for you!

[Edited by barrk on 12-05-2000 at 03:31 PM]

[HarryW]

I was wondering for a minute why on earth you were using VB :) Do you use ADA in the States? Most of the real time stuff here is done in ADA I'm fairly sure, but I think some of the peripheral systems use C++.

I've worked briefly for MoD-affiliated companies before a couple of times, and hopefully next year I'll get a placement at DERA working on a flight simulator for the successor to the Eurofighter. It's due in around 2020 apparently. I'm pretty well placed for the job I think, since I've got some C++ experience and I already have MoD security clearance (twice over actually). I relish the thought of maybe getting to try some OpenGL or at least some 3D maths and realistic Physics modelling. Just my kind of thing :) It's a student placement, in case you're wondering why I have a chance at this, and the job's been offered by DERA.

[barrk]

The real-time stuff is done on Unix machines. However, the engineer's wanted a web-based environment that they could do algorithms such as average stick-force per g, etc. from the real-time data (post-flight analysis). The software was dictated to us. Oracle, SQL Server and Visual Studio. Since the majority of the team was familiar with VB and Active X, it was decided that we would build the interface in VB.

So then you get paid good Katie?
A female that makes money, as much as a male does?
That's what I like to see :D.

I have to marry a female that makes a lot of money some day too ;).

hehe kedaman, I'm still learning C++. It's taking me a bit longer because first: I have Borland Turbo C++ and it's not Object Oriented, so I have to save up and buy Visual C++ 6.0 because I've only got Microsoft Visual Studio 6.0 Professional. second: Time (need to find time to learn) third: 1 and 2 are good enuff :D

[HarryW]

VC++ 6 comes with VS 6 though. How come you don't have it with Visual Studio?

turbo C++ 3 isn't object oriented?

I thought it was :confused:

[HarryW]

That's a good point actually. Any flavour of C++ is object oriented. That's the whole point of C++ and it's what makes it different from plain vanilla C. Do you mean it doesn't make Windows apps? I don't know if it does or not, I'm just asking.

This is a mistake people keep making - VC++ is not object oriented C++, it's a Windows-based development environment with a C++ compiler. There's nothing special about VC++ except for the development environment.

well, what i was wondering is whether the compiler supports OOP or not... but since it's TC++ I assumed it did.... I know TC++ 4.5 does..

[Ianpbaker]

katie, now you've given us that information, do you have to kill us or face the NSA coming round to do a full body check

Ian

[Fox]

Hi Katie, pleasure to meet ye!

Hm, what was the topic again? *reviews topic* Ah well, give me a fish and I will buy an aquarium ;)

He and dont kill me, I didnt read about the front-end for the F22 Advanced Tactical Fighter program for the US Air Force :rolleyes:


See ya around!

[paulw]

Katie, you've intrigued me now. What is it that Oracle is doing that SQL Server is incapable of? Why the heterogenous environment?

BTW. Maybe Matthew had a point - with his VB skills and your F22 knowledge, you could make a killing in the Games market - perhaps not.

Matthew - I was being deliberately provocative yesterday. I was just suprised that you didn't know SQL since it is the basis of so many real world apps. Is your knowledeg mainly theoretical as a student?

Harry - work for DERA - are you sure? Civil Service mentality...

Cheers,

P.

[barrk]

The unix platforms are open VMS and then the data is reduced and placed into Oracle (which is contracted by one provider). It is a separate system, separate domain etc. We make a connection to the Oracle data and transfer onto our server which uses SQL. We felt we could do what we needed with SQL instead of paying for an additional Oracle server license.

To all that have asked, No, I do not need to kill any of you for knowing what I have told you. It is the data that is classified, not the system architecture.

[Ianpbaker]

phew (Ian wipes his brow and cancels his plane to a non extradition country)

[paulw]

The unix platforms are open VMS...


Open VMS is NOT Unix (shame on you). I cut my teeth on VMS - or are you running Ultrix on an Alpha?

Excellent OS. Knocks WNT into a cocked hat. Same architect though, Dave Cutler.

I may have to kill you for sharing that bit of knowledge:D

Interesting environment.

Cheers,

P.

[barrk]

The Oracle database is on Alpha machines in our data center. I just "steal" their data for post-flight analysis.

The data center is using Open VMS. Don't know anything about it really.

call me a glutton for punishment, but I loved working
on our VMS machines.

DCL rules!! :)

Sherm

[barrk]

You're a glutton for punishment!

Originally posted by barrk
You're a glutton for punishment!

Cute :)

[Ianpbaker]

ouch that hurt katie, i've only got a few ribs left ;)

[barrk]

pretty witty, huh? I thought of that all by myself too!

[HarryW]

Paul - What do you mean? I've worked in a couple of aerospace industry based companies before and have found the progress to be slow at best. A constant struggle to get things done that would be good for the company, because the management are more worried about cutting costs/making themselves look good than supporting you. Also, if you want to do something that is the job of another department they get all irritable and are liable to want to take over the project but do it their way, which was half the problem in the first place.

Is that the kind of thing you mean?

I like the looks of the job because it's working on a flight simulator really, and I figure it's the closest I'm gonna get to games programming which is what I'd like to be doing ideally :) Not sure how likely I'd be to get to do any of it though.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by paulw
Katie, you've intrigued me now. What is it that Oracle is doing that SQL Server is incapable of? Why the heterogenous environment?

BTW. Maybe Matthew had a point - with his VB skills and your F22 knowledge, you could make a killing in the Games market - perhaps not.

Matthew - I was being deliberately provocative yesterday. I was just suprised that you didn't know SQL since it is the basis of so many real world apps. Is your knowledeg mainly theoretical as a student?

Harry - work for DERA - are you sure? Civil Service mentality...

Cheers,

P.

Man, I don't even know DB! :(
But I am learning everything.
I'm only 16, so I got time :rolleyes:.
Been so damn busy, I have been concentrating more on Driver's Education lately, because this friggen new law is effective January 1, 2001. Anyone who is born before 1984 is aloud to get their permit now and is able to get their license at age 17. After 1984, permit is 17 and license is 18 along with a whole bunch of licenses you have to get. Thank God I don't have to go through that. But I have to pass the test and get my permit before 1/1/2001 or else...:(.

The tutorials on this site will help me learn the basics of everything I need to know. Karl's good with the tutorials :). Right now, I'm just learning COM. Than probably finish C++ and go to DB. And....easier said than done. But I'm trying :).

[marnitzg]

Then probably finish C++

Thats the first time I've heard that comment. Will probably also be the last!

Probably = WILL
I WILL FINISH LEARNING C++.

Damn. I made a spelling mistake?
I'm so embarassed :o.
How could I let this happen? :(.
This can't be happening.
My day is ruined :rolleyes:.

[kedaman]

Hey Matt, no biggy, the day isn't ruined, in fact, this is going to be one of the greatest days in your life :) Although i think i'm going to stay with C++ for a long long time :p

[HarryW]

Matt mate, I think the point was that nobody ever finishes learning C++. Except maybe Bjarne Stroustrup, but he wrote it.

I see.
So there is that much to C++?
You can learn so much, and yet, you still can learn so much more?
Would you say the same for VB?

[HarryW]

Well there really isn't much to VB. What allows you to do the fancy stuff is all API, and that's nothing to do with VB really. That's just Windows. Perhaps with VB7 or .NET or whatever, there will be some interesting inheritance and polymorphism to play with, but I'm not sure if you'd really call that VB. I suppose you could say the same for C++ though, the whole OO paradigm is pretty language-independant.

Hmm, I'm not sure really where the language stops and the other stuff starts.

[kedaman]

Well Harry, I think getting hang of all the C++ commands/concepts doesn't mean you've learned all about C++. I think when you study algoritms, you will find there's unlimited information, just waiting for you.

[HarryW]

Is that specifically C/C++ though? Or is it just algorithms and data structures? What's language-dependant?

[paulw]

Harry,

Hadn't seen your reply. DERA is the (as you know) executive agency that deals with Defence Research. It is still 'government'. Why don't you try and get into one of the Games companies if that is what you really want to do. The Civil Service is safe, but not particularly well paid and you meet too many 'time-servers' whose only function is to make you as brain-dead as they are.

Not that I've had bad experiences of the CS or anything:(

Good luck.

P.

PS Absolutely agree with you about algorithms, they are concepts that are totally language independent. You can implement a sort algorithm in C, C++, Delphi, VB or whatever - end result is the same.

[kedaman]

Hey, i was thinking about the algoritms as language independent too, i just happened to mention C++ there ;) WEll sometimes you need to change them a bit before implementing them in different languages..

Hmm, getting tired i guess, it's 1 pm and i should get some sleep...

[paulw]

Hey Keddie,

Wasn't meaning any disrespect. I know you knew that, but people sometimes think that they must use Language X for Purpose Y, whereas a truly useful algorithm will be atottally independent concept - a thing of beauty unsullied by language dependent definitions.

Why are you sleeping at 1pm? Siesta - thought that was for hot blooded Latinos, not Finns:D

Cheers,

P.

[kedaman]

hey paul!
damn i couldn't sleep now either, it's 3:20pm now, which means i've been awake for 23 hours

well, going to sleep again, hoping it works now :;9

[paulw]

Good Luzzzzzzzz....

P.

[parksie]

kedaman, are you still awake from when we were chatting before? Damn...

Katie - we still never found out if you were paid well ;)

[barrk]

52K/year (US dollars of course) plus awesome retirement and other benefits. I don't know if that's good or not. It helps to pay the bills though. My husband also works so it's enough for us!

[Edited by barrk on 12-07-2000 at 02:54 PM]

[barrk]

So..parksie...is this good or not??

[parksie]

I don't actually know...but in Britain lots of people would be very happy with that :)

It's fine Katie.
We can't all be rich like my Uncle Bill :rolleyes:.
But we can make a decent amount :D.

And as long as you and your family are happy and satisfied enough, that's all that matters :).

[barrk]

Originally posted by Matthew Gates


And as long as you and your family are happy and satisfied enough, that's all that matters :).

That's true!!!

[kedaman]

I wont get satisfied until i get as rich as Bill! Hehe just kidding...

Actually i'm economically very poor, so i'm hoping my programming skills gets me out of it..

[Rudy]

Bah im still a student and i don't have a job but i manage to always have at least 300-1000$ on my pocket......how i do that?? i have no idea lol cause i spend like crazy....can't wait to get a job heheh

[Benjamin]

you've got to know how you get the money.....

your parents maybe?

[HarryW]

Sounds like a stupid idea to carry that much around to me. What if you lost your wallet or got mugged? It's a lot of unnecessary cash to be carrying around. It could be earning interest too.

[kedaman]

my parents? nope :( I think i have to hack into a banking terminal or steal a laser printer and print some money

[HarryW]

Ked, with your programming skills you will be able to make a sh**load of money, trust me. Especially now you're learning C++ too. If you want money, My personal inkling is that it's gonna be in COM+ and DCOM for a while, and all things distributed. Of course I guess the same applies to CORBA, but I know nothing much about that except I think it's similar to COM, and competes with it.

Anyway whatever you do programming-wise you're gonna be able to make a lot of cash. Get some good experience in a working environment (if you haven't already) after you graduate and you will be able to sign up to a contracting agency and earn big bucks.

Well that's one option anyway :)

[kedaman]

Thanks Harry for cheering me up, I'll try to look at the bright side :)

[parksie]

Always look on the bright side of life
*whistling*