India State Opposes Microsoft "Monopoly"

[NotLKH]

From HERE (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/29/business/worldbusiness/29cnd-india.html?ex=1314504000&en=794e5fc8622c44c2&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

“It is well-known that Microsoft wants to have a monopoly in the field of computer technology. Naturally, being a democratic and progressive government, we want to encourage the spread of free software,” M. A. Baby, the state’s education minister, said by telephone.

Microsoft was not being banned, he said, but the government was actively encouraging Kerala’s 12,500 schools to switch to the Linux operating system, available around the world free of charge.



It seems insulting that they want to use Linux, not because of its quality, but because its free. At the very least, they should donate to Linux, and all similar developers, to help encourage their continuation in developing such openware.

[crptcblade]

Let's all send them an email telling them to go to hell.

:afrog:

[chocoloco]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[NotLKH]

An unnamed source indicated:


"The government was also actively encouraging Kerala’s 12,500 schools to stock their cafterias by visiting the many fast food chains and grabbing handfuls of condiments, free to everyone worldwide."

[rory]

good luck to them with that ..
wonder how much $$ is to be made in linucks .. :D

[penagate]

Well, they're saving money for a start.

[rory]

Well, they're saving money for a start.
saving money doesnt actually pay for food though ... :D

[penagate]

Eh... if you want to be pedantic and technical, no it doesn't "pay" for food. But for the rest of us, saving money means it can be used to invest in other commodities.

[iPrank]

Some more news:
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=137833

[rory]

Eh... if you want to be pedantic and technical, no it doesn't "pay" for food. But for the rest of us, saving money means it can be used to invest in other commodities.
they can save even more money by leaving the PC powered off ..
and they can make $$ by selling their PC's ...

[Shaggy Hiker]

they can save even more money by leaving the PC powered off ..
and they can make $$ by selling their PC's ...

What's your point with all this?

This is a school system we're talking about isn't it? If it operates like every other school system I'm aware of, they have a fairly fixed budget. If they spend that on software, they can't spend it on anything else. However, they have a goal, which is education, so they are going for a cost saving in this area that will not significantly compromise their goal. It seems reasonable to me, but I'm not clear on what your position is?

[rory]

What's your point with all this?

This is a school system we're talking about isn't it? If it operates like every other school system I'm aware of, they have a fairly fixed budget. If they spend that on software, they can't spend it on anything else. However, they have a goal, which is education, so they are going for a cost saving in this area that will not significantly compromise their goal. It seems reasonable to me, but I'm not clear on what your position is?

guess you didnt read my other posts ..
anyway, poor kids, is alls I got to say ..

PS. I live in a 3rd world country so i know all about expensive and budgets ...

[Shaggy Hiker]

Your other posts in this thread? You only have two, and I still don't know if you support this or not. Do you think that this will leave them disadvantaged in a competitive world? That could be...or not, I'm not sure. Maybe they don't see a disadvantage to the students, and a benefit to the cost side of the ledger.

[iPrank]

Do you think that this will leave them disadvantaged in a competitive world? That could be...or not, I'm not sure. Maybe they don't see a disadvantage to the students, and a benefit to the cost side of the ledger.
I don't think there will be a disadvantage.

Here we are talking about school students in (rural) 3rd world countries. Most of them never TOUCHED a computer in their life.

Using Linux, atleast they will be familier with the 'computer'. Saving in licence fees means more computers for more students.

It will be a problem to get application softwares at first, but when all schools in a state start to use Linux platform, there will be more students who helps each other. I remember posting in a thread in General PC, where the original thread starter (from UK) said that his daughter wants to use Linux just because all her friends uses it and she found some cool app for Linux.

All major Windows apps that students generally use for educational purpose, like MS-Office or browsers or drawing tools, have their Linux clones. If they want, they can easily export their resurch paper to RTF using ABIWord/StarOffice.

And if they are interested in programming, they can use almost all technologies, like C/C++/JAVA/HTML/PHP/MySQL/Oracle/Python in a Linux box. Remember, they are not going to make any commercial software. Their main purpose is LEARNING.

IMO, it will be an advantage if they learn Linux. As, generally Linux is harder to learn at first. But they can learn using Windows anytime - in just 15 days.

[rory]

Your other posts in this thread? You only have two, and I still don't know if you support this or not. Do you think that this will leave them disadvantaged in a competitive world? That could be...or not, I'm not sure. Maybe they don't see a disadvantage to the students, and a benefit to the cost side of the ledger.

yeah i guess since its just high school kids .. just used to these 3rd world countries like where i live, trying to impose new 3rd world laws on us .. normally to make a buck for themselves ..

once its just about budget ... and once they get some PCs, then is all good .. better Linux than nothing ..

[penagate]

You speak as though Linux is somehow inferior and will put them at a disadvantage later in life.

Fact is like iPrank said Linux is generally harder to learn, so it is better to learn before Windows if possible. But Linux/Unix skills are valuable in many areas, particularly network administration and high performance computing. These kids that are familiar with Linux will (assuming some basic proficiency for computing) very quickly pick up Windows, be able to compare and understand the differences between them, and end up at an overall advantage over someone who is grounded in Windows only.

[rory]

im always thinking where the most money is I guess ... :D

anyway, i started on DOS .. but yeah it is inferior :bigyello: :bigyello: (sidenote id like to learn mac)
but hey they will have a heads up in the embedded linux world .. though personally I prefer Nucleous ... :wave:

[Valleysboy1978]

To have Linux skills is going to be a huge advantage to them. Linux administrators here are paid well (up to £40k) whereas Windows admins are paid much less (£18k). And as pointed out already it is easy to pick up Windows

[rory]

Sucks to be an IT person where you live .. LOL ..
Linux or Windows doesnt matter here in the 3rd world, they gettin paid the same, like $300 a week ... id rather clean pools!

btw Windows Admins are paid much more in most other countries ..
also linux is free .. anyone can learn it ..

plus its being more secure is plain hype ..
just those Linsux users dont know the 1st thing about Securing Windows ...
most windowz users dont even know ..

[penagate]

That is truly a compelling argument. I bow to you.

[rory]

and u should :D

[Shaggy Hiker]

Ok, I was with you until you said you wanted to learn Mac....then I lost ALL respect for you ;)

In general, I agree with your cynical point of view, but remember, we are talking about India here. That's where all the US software jobs are going to end up, so I'm not sure that rural school districts out there don't see computers as THE future for improving the general status of their region. That could be a compelling case for getting computers into classes, at the expense of....well....pretty much everything else.

[nemaroller]

I have quite a few India natives in our office - and they all tell tales on how they were made to memorize the names and purposes of a pentium 80x86 processor. The schools there are hard and only graduate the best.

Unfortunately for India, it doesn't matter how well you educate people about software, if the jobs are overseas, that's where your educated populous relocates. They need more of the entrepreneuring environment Silicon Valley has - with the loose financing to back it up. Without that - it doesn't matter how well you write software.

[capsulecorpjx]

I have quite a few India natives in our office - and they all tell tales on how they were made to memorize the names and purposes of a pentium 80x86 processor. The schools there are hard and only graduate the best.

Unfortunately for India, it doesn't matter how well you educate people about software, if the jobs are overseas, that's where your educated populous relocates. They need more of the entrepreneuring environment Silicon Valley has - with the loose financing to back it up. Without that - it doesn't matter how well you write software.

There is such a thing as over-education. Unfortunately when you have that many people going for the same thing in a meritocracy, you end up forcing a lot of people to learn crap they will never use just to narrow the field.

[Valleysboy1978]

btw Windows Admins are paid much more in most other countries ..
also linux is free .. anyone can learn it .. You gotta be joking! Have you even seen Linux!?! It takes a LONG time to learn linux and you certainly wouldn't be able to pick it up by yourself unless you already had some IT training

[penagate]

Windows admins are a dime a dozen, anywhere. I cannot imagine they would be better paid by any self-respecting industry-aware company.

[Valleysboy1978]

Exactly! Linux admin skills are far less common

[rory]

You gotta be joking! Have you even seen Linux!?! It takes a LONG time to learn linux and you certainly wouldn't be able to pick it up by yourself unless you already had some IT training

Hmmm ... win3.1 ... clone
If it was worth learning i would 'ave ... :wave:
Windoze is where the $$$ is at ...

[Valleysboy1978]

If it was worth learning i would 'aveWhy haven't you then? :rolleyes:

For M$ maybe but not for admins. I suppose it all depends on your educational system. If you grow up with Windows that is obviously something you will pick up quicker than Linux...and vice versa.

[rory]

Why haven't you then? :rolleyes:

For M$ maybe but not for admins. I suppose it all depends on your educational system. If you grow up with Windows that is obviously something you will pick up quicker than Linux...and vice versa.

I build/setup CCTV DVRs ... linux doesnt cut it ..
Umm .. i grew up with DOS //. you??

[Valleysboy1978]

Windows 3.11 :sick:

If Windows is so good, why did Microsoft have Linux-based web servers up until a few years ago (when it was made public) ?

[crptcblade]

If Windows is so good, why did Microsoft have Linux-based web servers up until a few years ago (when it was made public) ?
Because its free. :thumb:

[honeybee]

It seems insulting that they want to use Linux, not because of its quality, but because its free. At the very least, they should donate to Linux, and all similar developers, to help encourage their continuation in developing such openware.

I think the insulting part is they are using the "Microsoft is monopolistic" argument as a shield, instead of focussing on the core issue: cost. I wonder if Microsoft were to give away Windows licenses, would they still call Microsoft "monopolistic"?

.

[honeybee]

Windows 3.11 :sick:

If Windows is so good, why did Microsoft have Linux-based web servers up until a few years ago (when it was made public) ?

And the reason Linux is developing a GUI? Aren't they getting any inspirations or ideas from the Windows GUI?

.

[honeybee]

Sucks to be an IT person where you live .. LOL ..

Sucks to be an IT person?? And just because Linux admins are paid more in his area?? Can you please explain the link between the two?


Linux or Windows doesnt matter here in the 3rd world, they gettin paid the same, like $300 a week ... id rather clean pools!

Clean pools? In the place where an IT admin gets $300, a pool cleaner would probably end up with $10 or so. Do the math please before switching :D


btw Windows Admins are paid much more in most other countries ..
also linux is free .. anyone can learn it ..

So just because Linux is free, anyone can learn it? That's another new one for me.


plus its being more secure is plain hype ..
just those Linsux users dont know the 1st thing about Securing Windows ...
most windowz users dont even know ..
And what is that supposed to mean? That Windows users don't know anything about securing Windows? And Linux users don't know anything about securing Windows? Are you actually trying to promote Windows here? ;)

.

[honeybee]

anyway, i started on DOS .. but yeah it is inferior :bigyello: :bigyello: (sidenote id like to learn mac)


OK, DOS is inferior to what?? To the best of my knowledge, DOS could do everything it was supposed to do. So exactly what makes it inferior?

.

[Valleysboy1978]

Because its free. :thumb:as would Windows for Microsoft :D

[honeybee]

You speak as though Linux is somehow inferior and will put them at a disadvantage later in life.

Fact is like iPrank said Linux is generally harder to learn, so it is better to learn before Windows if possible. But Linux/Unix skills are valuable in many areas, particularly network administration and high performance computing. These kids that are familiar with Linux will (assuming some basic proficiency for computing) very quickly pick up Windows, be able to compare and understand the differences between them, and end up at an overall advantage over someone who is grounded in Windows only.

Again, I don't understand why people keep saying Linux is harder to learn. Is it simply because there were no UI tools to operate it? How many of the so-called Windows users or developers or even administrators know the Win32 SDK inside out? How many people could even create a share using the command prompt? As the UI is refined and enhanced, command-line operations will get obsolete. And after all why were you using command-line operations? Because you really had no alternative. No doubt sometimes I use command-line operations to speed up certain trivial tasks, but that's only because I am a good typist. DOS operations are difficult to learn than Win 98 operations because DOS doesn't give you a UI.

.

[penagate]

You answered it yourself.
Windows gives you a pretty GUI that you can mess around in. Linux throws you in the deep end, much as does DOS.

Not to mention picking a distribution, and a GUI if that's what you want.

[rory]

Windows 3.11 :sick:

If Windows is so good, why did Microsoft have Linux-based web servers up until a few years ago (when it was made public) ?

Hmmm .. did you forget the name of this forum ..???
maybe need to save the linux hype for a linux forum ... :wave:

[rory]

Clean pools? In the place where an IT admin gets $300, a pool cleaner would probably end up with $10 or so. Do the math please before switching :D


So just because Linux is free, anyone can learn it? That's another new one for me.


And what is that supposed to mean? That Windows users don't know anything about securing Windows? And Linux users don't know anything about securing Windows? Are you actually trying to promote Windows here? ;)

.

Pool cleaners get paid more than linux admins who are mostly windows drop outs and dont know anything about setting up and securing windows properly which is why they switch to linux in fear ... :D

[honeybee]

You answered it yourself.
Windows gives you a pretty GUI that you can mess around in. Linux throws you in the deep end, much as does DOS.

Not to mention picking a distribution, and a GUI if that's what you want.

Point is when you learn to operate Windows, you essentially learn the GUI. You don't learn the SDK. When you learn to operate Linux/DOS for that matter, you are essentially learning the bare-bones, raw commands. So I would say it's two different things learning Windows and learning Linux w/out the UI. Now if you were to compare Windows with another UI-based OS such as the Mac, that would be interesting.

.

[honeybee]

Pool cleaners get paid more than linux admins who are mostly windows drop outs and dont know anything about setting up and securing windows properly which is why they switch to linux in fear ... :D

Boy, you seem to just "hate" Linux admins! Either you don't know the real Linux administrators or you don't know what Linux administration means.

.

[honeybee]

saving money doesnt actually pay for food though ... :D

And why would it not?

.

[penagate]

Point is when you learn to operate Windows, you essentially learn the GUI. You don't learn the SDK. When you learn to operate Linux/DOS for that matter, you are essentially learning the bare-bones, raw commands. So I would say it's two different things learning Windows and learning Linux w/out the UI. Now if you were to compare Windows with another UI-based OS such as the Mac, that would be interesting.

.
Yes, correct, you don't actually learn Windows properly unless you program in it.

[rory]

Boy, you seem to just "hate" Linux admins! Either you don't know the real Linux administrators or you don't know what Linux administration means.

.
Okay so we've obviously gathered that you are a linux user ... :wave:

[honeybee]

Yes, correct, you don't actually learn Windows properly unless you program in it.

Well, then I say if a newbie were to learn Windows programming and Linux programming, both would be equally easy/difficult.

.

[honeybee]

Okay so we've obviously gathered that you are a linux user ... :wave:

Oi, you jump very fast!!! To conclusions. How about not drawing conclusions so fast and debate the issues without any biases?

.

[rory]

Oi, you jump very fast!!! To conclusions. How about not drawing conclusions so fast and debate the issues without any biases?

.
if you think linux is soo cool then u must be a linux user .. :bigyello:

Do you know DOS BTW ..??

[Valleysboy1978]

I'd say Windows code would be more difficult to learn as you'd be in jail at the time for breach of copyright :lol:

[penagate]

Well, then I say if a newbie were to learn Windows programming and Linux programming, both would be equally easy/difficult.

.
I agree.

People will inevitably be drawn to Windows and find it easier to use because of the GUI; but to actually know either inside out is a task of equal magnitude.

[FunkyDexter]

From what I can see you don't need to learn either to call yourself an admin. Just learn the phrase: "Have you rebooted the machine?".

Seriously, the other day I found myself exaplining to a customers admin that when he set up a datasource he had to actually tell it which database to use :rolleyes:

[rory]

the word "admin" is overated on any OS ... and everyone is a "computer expert" nowadays, or so it "seems" ... :bigyello:

[MasterBlaster]

Oi, you jump very fast!!! To conclusions. How about not drawing conclusions so fast and debate the issues without any biases?

.

Where is the real HB and what have you done with him? :eek:

[Wally Pipp]

I'll have Vista Boulevard and put two (count 'em, two!) webservers on it.

[honeybee]

if you think linux is soo cool then u must be a linux user .. :bigyello:

Do you know DOS BTW ..??

Take it a bit slowly, will ya? I haven't said Linux is cool. However I don't agree with the statement that Linux is harder to learn than Windows. If you take the operating system, probably in Linux you would still have to use a command line to get certain jobs done (MS shipped DOS with Windows till Win '98 I guess). Which would be equally difficult to do with the DOS command prompt in a Windows system. The only difference here is Windows now comes with a neat GUI to shield you from the command-line syntaxes and switches. As far as programming is concerned, you need to learn the respective APIs, again I have no reason to believe Linux APIs will be more difficult to learn than Windows APIs, and then there are programming languages to learn. Again for the programming languages, apart from the syntax differences, hardly anything is different for a normal programmer.

.

[honeybee]

I'd say Windows code would be more difficult to learn as you'd be in jail at the time for breach of copyright :lol:

API?? Ever heard of them??

I don't think if I were to write a program to work on Linux I need to know how the kernel instructions are executed or what code goes into a particular flavour of Linux, as long as I have the APIs to work with.

Same for Windows. How many Windows programmers know actually what goes on behind the screens when an API function is called? And frankly it doesn't matter.

.

[honeybee]

Where is the real HB and what have you done with him? :eek:

That's a secret, which if revealed, will endanger the people of your country, so don't ask!!

.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'll have Vista Boulevard and put two (count 'em, two!) webservers on it.

Is this some weird/sick form of futuristic Monopoly move?