I predict WWIII in 10 years ... I mean 10 weeks.

[capsulecorpjx]

Edit: For the new **** going down in the Middle East and North Korea.

Unless someone perfects fusion as an energy source soon :-(

Oil and coal will run out.

Global warming is happening and causing havoc (i.e. stronger hurricanes, receding shorelines).

Both are related to each other and feed off of one another.

[sevenhalo]

God is all the power we need. Have a little faith.

[MasterBlaster]

Unless someone perfects fusion as an energy source soon :-(

Oil and coal will run out.

Global warming is happening and causing havoc (i.e. stronger hurricanes, receding shorelines).

Both are related to each other and feed off of one another.

Oil Maybe. Coal, Not within 10 years. Half the entire states of PA, Ohio, West Virginia and new york are nothing but coal, clay and bikers who should wear helmets.

Global warming has nothing to do with the hurricanes. They are no stronger than they have been. There was a brief booring week or so in between the Michael Jackson case and the Natilee (Howa bouta ruffee) Holloway dissappearance so the news chanels needed something to report. :rolleyes: Hence, People in the US that live in mild climate zones and the rest of the world found out that we get smashed by fooking natural disasters every year. :ehh: Whaddaya know.

[just_a_me]

We are good on coal for a very long time. The problem is it puts off a terrible amount of air pollution.

[penagate]

WWIII

Is that the next Nintendo console?

[ComputerJy]

We are good on coal for a very long time. The problem is it puts off a terrible amount of air pollution.
Would my car work on it?

[sevenhalo]

We are good on coal for a very long time. The problem is it puts off a terrible amount of air pollution.
The ethanol plant that I work for is the first coal fueled one in the world. You'd be surprised how much we've advanced in coal burning. The entire plant only produces steam.

[moeur]

Unless someone perfects fusion as an energy source soon :-(Or unless the wackos stop blocking development of fission plants

Oil and coal will run out.not in your lifetime

Global warming is happening and causing havoc (i.e. stronger hurricanes, receding shorelines).propaganda, see global warming thread.

The ethanol plant that I work for is the first coal fueled one in the worldThere is something really wrong here. We need to burn lots of coal to produce our "clean" burning ethanol.

Next thing you know we'll be burning oil to generate hydrogen for our fuel-cell cars.

[Shaggy Hiker]

The ethanol plant that I work for is the first coal fueled one in the world. You'd be surprised how much we've advanced in coal burning. The entire plant only produces steam.
Cmon, the workers alone produce more than steam....at least the ones I work with do.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Or unless the wackos stop blocking development of fission plants


T'aint the wackos. There is no area in this coutry where a majority of residents would be ok with having a fission pant built in their neighborhood. If you are one who would be ok with it, canvas your neighbors. Even the people who support nuke power tend to support it elsewhere. This may be because they want the product, but don't want to be near it, or it may be a rational realization that they live in an area where the majority would STRONGLY oppose the development. To build a plant anywhere near a populated area would require an elected government ramming an unwelcome development down the throats of their voters. I would be amazed if you could find any community that would be an exception to this.


not in your lifetime


I agree, especially for coal. In the case of oil, I don't believe it will run out even in the lifetimes of the youngest people here. However, I do believe that it might become expensive enough that other options will become overwhelmingly more attractive from an economic standpoint.


propaganda, see global warming thread.

As you know, I disagree with this statement. There is plenty of propaganda on both sides, but the evidence for is much stronger than the evidence against, which generally is overhyped. You are in a position to study this, but are you going to? Can you be certain that you are not simply wishing away bad news? You don't believe in creationism, though there are scientists who can cast doubts on evolution. Why do you now doubt the vast majority of climatologists just because there are a few who cast doubts on the findings?


There is something really wrong here. We need to burn lots of coal to produce our "clean" burning ethanol.


Yah, that's kind of perverse. If you can burn the coal that cleanly, then you can generate electricity using the same technique.

[penagate]

Here in Adelaide we are suffering the effects of severe global warming, we've just had our coldest ever start to winter (http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,19537752%255E2682,00.html).

Oh and our air is apparently also cleaner (http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,19537758%255E910,00.html) than it's been for 20 years.

Terrible innit? :)

[just_a_me]

Would my car work on it?


It can be burned to produce electricity and your car would run on the electricity.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Towards the end of WWII, there were cars in Germany and the like that were converted to run on wood. I would think that coal might be used in the same fashion, but I'm not sure.

[just_a_me]

You could also burn coal in steam powered cars, but that is less efficient.

[sevenhalo]

Cmon, the workers alone produce more than steam....at least the ones I work with do.
No, seriously. We run 24/7, I'll take a picture of the plant sometime. The whole thing is white, the "smoke stacks" don't have any discoloration or anything. It's actually extemely clean. The only thing that comes out of that plant is ethanol and DDGs (an additive in feed for cattle that is extremely high in protein. Results in less fatty beef).

[sevenhalo]

There is something really wrong here. We need to burn lots of coal to produce our "clean" burning ethanol.

Next thing you know we'll be burning oil to generate hydrogen for our fuel-cell cars.
It's necessary though. I had the same kind of questons when we built the plant. I asked "why can't we use ethanol to fue the ethanol plant?" Turns out it burns at a lower octane (I think thats the word they used) and couldn't get the temperature up high enough.

And what do you mean by "lots of coal?" Do you know how much coal we go through in a day? Do you know how much ethanol we produce? Do you know how many miles it equates to in the average car?

[Shaggy Hiker]

Nope, we don't know squat.

By the way, you are producing other things, the fact that the emission is white or clear is pretty much irrelevant. All that means is that you aren't producing soot or particulates, SO4, NOx, and CO2 are all still possible (actually, the latter is virtually certain).

[sevenhalo]

As far as DNR and the air regulations are concerned with any industry company; it's steam.

Coal or not.

[sevenhalo]

I'm just going to wrap up my ethanol argument real quick. Right now, it's still kind of a taboo. People either love or hate it becuse of the benefits vs the mandates. The thing is, it plays into so many other economoic and enviromental fields besides fuel. If, hypothetically, ethanol cost more (up to a dime more per gallon), it would still benefit us financially. Our beef prices would remain strong, our corn and soy bushel price would stay constant and we will keep money in our country.

Enviromentally, it does burn cleaner and it is a renewable energy source. If our automotive industry keeps adjusting the way they are (offering more e-85 vehicles), the cost to produce will go down because more demand is out there and in turn, price at the pump will drop signifigantly. It's hard to see the long term benefits when you're in that transitional period. So many industries need to move with you. Ethanol is that first step. If you're not using atleast E-10 (Super Unleaded) in your cars, I don't understand your reasoning. I would be curious to hear it, because I honestly beleive that it's just habitual at this point.

If you use ethanol, it's like canned heat. That stuff you put in your car in the winter to make it start easier? The chemical compound is one carbon less then that.

If you don't understand the economics or long term benefits; the northern half of america should atleast understand how that would help them.

I was reluctant before I started here. I didn't even understand the difference between unleaded and super. People I talk to now are worried that becaue super burns at a higher octane that they will get less miles. I tested thid over and over, there is no difference. Try it for yourself, you will not see a noticable difference in mileage.

I'm just wrapping this up (from my perspective) because I can see myself argueing in this thread for atleast 2 months (if people kept posting). Use Super Unleaded; there is no reason not to and many many unseen reasons to use it.

If you have questions about ethanol, IM me. I can answer them. If you have more anti-ethanol points, I will stick around and pacify them.

[capsulecorpjx]

I'm just going to wrap up my ethanol argument real quick. Right now, it's still kind of a taboo. People either love or hate it becuse of the benefits vs the mandates. The thing is, it plays into so many other economoic and enviromental fields besides fuel. If, hypothetically, ethanol cost more (up to a dime more per gallon), it would still benefit us financially. Our beef prices would remain strong, our corn and soy bushel price would stay constant and we will keep money in our country.

Enviromentally, it does burn cleaner and it is a renewable energy source. If our automotive industry keeps adjusting the way they are (offering more e-85 vehicles), the cost to produce will go down because more demand is out there and in turn, price at the pump will drop signifigantly. It's hard to see the long term benefits when you're in that transitional period. So many industries need to move with you. Ethanol is that first step. If you're not using atleast E-10 (Super Unleaded) in your cars, I don't understand your reasoning. I would be curious to hear it, because I honestly beleive that it's just habitual at this point.

If you use ethanol, it's like canned heat. That stuff you put in your car in the winter to make it start easier? The chemical compound is one carbon less then that.

If you don't understand the economics or long term benefits; the northern half of america should atleast understand how that would help them.

I was reluctant before I started here. I didn't even understand the difference between unleaded and super. People I talk to now are worried that becaue super burns at a higher octane that they will get less miles. I tested thid over and over, there is no difference. Try it for yourself, you will not see a noticable difference in mileage.

I'm just wrapping this up (from my perspective) because I can see myself argueing in this thread for atleast 2 months (if people kept posting). Use Super Unleaded; there is no reason not to and many many unseen reasons to use it.

If you have questions about ethanol, IM me. I can answer them. If you have more anti-ethanol points, I will stick around and pacify them.

Is there really enough of a surplus of grain in the world with which you can turn it into fuel?

[sevenhalo]

Is there really enough of a surplus of grain in the world with which you can turn it into fuel?
We're not "turning" grain into fuel. We're extracting the materials we need and using the left over material as an additive in feed (called DDGs). With this additive in your feed, cattle won't need to eat as much of it because of how high in protein it is.

[yrwyddfa]

Unless someone perfects fusion as an energy source soon :-(

Oil and coal will run out.

Global warming is happening and causing havoc (i.e. stronger hurricanes, receding shorelines).

Both are related to each other and feed off of one another.Read my thoughts link below for a summary analysis of hurricanes Oil and coal will not run out until I have great-great-great grandchildren (however I choose to disagree with Moeur - he is entirely correct ;))

To suggest that the world will go to war because of fuel is irrational. I can't recall that either of the two other world wars were fought on the basis of fuel, and to suggest that any of the minor wars are about fuel - at this stage - is a little wearisome.

The world might got to war to suppress imperialistic tendencies, but that's another story ;)

[Cander]

I'd like to see anyone get their troops and war machines going without the oil anyway. :P Unless we want to build a fleet of wind powered boats and become like a hoard of Vikings or Pirates. YARRRR!

[demotivater]

mmmmm, booty

[Moon Pie]

mmmmm, booty
Now that's worth going to war for.

[Synok]

Hmm, war is so useless.. At the end they realise noone wins, just costs human life..

[Moon Pie]

Oil and coal will run out.
Silly, young'un. This is what they said when I was a kid in the '70s, and here we are burning oil and coal. Still. You'll be burning them long after I'm gone.

It is the desertification that you have to worry about.

[yrwyddfa]

It is the desertification that you have to worry about.The whole world is going to turn into pudding?

[Moon Pie]

The whole world is going to turn into pudding?
Yes. And then what will you do?

[penagate]

Pop a cherry

[visualAd]

Edit: For the new **** going down in the Middle East and North Korea.

Unless someone perfects fusion as an energy source soon :-(

Oil and coal will run out.

Global warming is happening and causing havoc (i.e. stronger hurricanes, receding shorelines).

Both are related to each other and feed off of one another.
What is it going to be? A battle betwene the remaing coal, oil and global warming?

[Valleysboy1978]

Pop a cherryYou still haven't popped your cherry at your ripe old age? :eek:

[penagate]

A cherry :blush:

[Valleysboy1978]

http://www.umilmi81.com/imageshare/images/azz.gif
Good god man! Get out there and pop that cherry will ya!

[Al42]

Read my thoughts link below for a summary analysis of hurricanes1) The average global temperature is rising. That's a measurement, not theory or a computer model.

2) Hurricanes are heat-driven - the more heat available, the more hurricanes and the stronger they'll be.

You can draw whatever conclusions you like from these two facts, but it's pretty linear math.

[moeur]

1) The average global temperature is rising. That's a measurement, not theory or a computer model.

2) Hurricanes are heat-driven - the more heat available, the more hurricanes and the stronger they'll be.

You can draw whatever conclusions you like from these two facts, but it's pretty linear math.
1) The average global temperature is rising
2) Heat melts ice: The average depth of ice in Antartica is... wait it's increasing.

Guess it's not so linear math after all.

[GRPsuper9]

i like cherrys

[Gameunreal]

god is all the power we need

will my toyota run on god? i dobt the guy at the gas station would give me 50 dollars of god... probably call the police...

[Gameunreal]

GRPsuper9: i like cherrys?

i know that thias is chit chat... but seriously....

[grilkip]

I enjoy cherrys occasionally

[demotivater]

I had a cherry once, possibly twice, but I think the second one lied. Definitely once though.

[honeybee]

...
Global warming has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
...


Errr, I guess he was trying to relate the rapidly depleting coal and oil reserves to the global warming :o

.

[honeybee]

To suggest that the world will go to war because of fuel is irrational.

The world might got to war to suppress imperialistic tendencies, but that's another story ;)

Do you still believe the Iraq invasion was made because Saddam is bad or because Iraq had WMDs or because Iraq was not a democracy??? How many years has it been since the invasion that car bombs are still claiming innocent Iraqis' lives almost every day? In what sense has the ground reality in Iraq has improved? The US president has vetoed a bill on stem cell research. Isn't that opposition to the people's opinions? Isn't that imperialistic?

Imperialistic tendencies? You mean to say one nation's version of rule, right? That's like saying the presidential democracy in the US is wrong, and it should be changed to the parliamentary system.

.

[nemaroller]

We've been using Ethanol in the Midwestern US for a decade at least... as far as I can remember driving anyway.

Normally, it's only 10 or 12% of the fuel pumped to the tank because if it was higher the ethanol would corrode the fuel lines and fuel tanks.

That said, a good friend of mine found out his Ford Taurus was E85 compatible - and was paying at least a dollar less per gallon after the initial Katrina aftermath. Of course, then everyone who could buy it, bought it, and drove the E85 price right up to price of 87 octane Unleaded.

But for States like Iowa, Nebraska, Minneapolis, Indiana and Illinois where the major crop is corn - they could become the new power houses of the new economy.

If you've ever driven through these midwestern States, you realize there's enough of food growing here to feed the world plus some - no bulls**t. They could easily supply the US's Ethanol needs as well.

[sevenhalo]

People have had their own stills in their garage since the mid 80's.

[capsulecorpjx]

We've been using Ethanol in the Midwestern US for a decade at least... as far as I can remember driving anyway.

Normally, it's only 10 or 12% of the fuel pumped to the tank because if it was higher the ethanol would corrode the fuel lines and fuel tanks.

That said, a good friend of mine found out his Ford Taurus was E85 compatible - and was paying at least a dollar less per gallon after the initial Katrina aftermath. Of course, then everyone who could buy it, bought it, and drove the E85 price right up to price of 87 octane Unleaded.

But for States like Iowa, Nebraska, Minneapolis, Indiana and Illinois where the major crop is corn - they could become the new power houses of the new economy.

If you've ever driven through these midwestern States, you realize there's enough of food growing here to feed the world plus some - no bulls**t. They could easily supply the US's Ethanol needs as well.

Thats one way to harness Solar Energy, through plantlife.
But, does ethanol it still emit CO2 when used?

[MasterBlaster]

Do you still believe the Iraq invasion was made because Saddam is bad or because Iraq had WMDs or because Iraq was not a democracy??? How many years has it been since the invasion that car bombs are still claiming innocent Iraqis' lives almost every day? In what sense has the ground reality in Iraq has improved? The US president has vetoed a bill on stem cell research. Isn't that opposition to the people's opinions? Isn't that imperialistic?

Imperialistic tendencies? You mean to say one nation's version of rule, right? That's like saying the presidential democracy in the US is wrong, and it should be changed to the parliamentary system.

.

Actually the situation is much better now in Iraq with the current situation in Israel. Most of the insurgants in Iraq were Iranian and Syrian any way. I guess they hate jews more that americans and brits. The president does not have absolute power in the US. Elected representatives from all of the US voted to go to war. Not just one guy. I've told you this before and I'll try to beat it into your skull again. The West is dividing the middle east and aisia with one goal in mind. Isolate Iran. After Israel takes out Lebanon and Syria, who's left all alone and Isolated? Iran is. Convenient Huh? :rolleyes: Any one care to guess who gets bombed next?

On the fuel debate
You can make Bio Diesel in your own backyard in the US out of your trash. You can also get huge tax breaks if you go into this program as well. I will look for a link to it. I forget the name of the program. I went to a concert in Seattle promoting it but I lost the flyer. It was somewhat expensive to set up but the fuel it produced will run in any car set up for bio diesel.

[nemaroller]

Thats one way to harness Solar Energy, through plantlife.
But, does ethanol it still emit CO2 when used?

Yes, but it is a 'carbon-neutral' fuel - the logic there is corn or whatever plant the ethanol is derived from needs CO2 when it grows, so the net effect to the atmosphere is 0.

And ethanol when burned is an oxygenate - which reduces ground-level ozone.

But personally, I'm not worried about CO2 emissions - that is a naturally abundant gas in the atmosphere. I look to ethanol to remove our dependence on oil - and its foreign sources - which means less economic ramifications.

[capsulecorpjx]

Yes, but it is a 'carbon-neutral' fuel - the logic there is corn or whatever plant the ethanol is derived from needs CO2 when it grows, so the net effect to the atmosphere is 0.

And ethanol when burned is an oxygenate - which reduces ground-level ozone.

But personally, I'm not worried about CO2 emissions - that is a naturally abundant gas in the atmosphere. I look to ethanol to remove our dependence on oil - and its foreign sources - which means less economic ramifications.

There is also thermo-depolymerization to supplement it. It creates oil from carbon wastes such as turkey guts from meat processing plants. It has an 80% efficiency rate (only 20% of the heat energy from the waste is consumed to convert it to oil), and processes most carbon trash at the same time.

[Valleysboy1978]

Anyone noticed how the press is no longer interested in the deaths in Iraq now that they have a conflict with a higher body count? The media disgusts me :mad:

[demotivater]

I agree that the media sucks, but the body count is higher in Iraq. There have been more casualties and KIA's in Iraq over the same period than there have been in Lebanon/Israel.

[MasterBlaster]

I agree that the media sucks, but the body count is higher in Iraq. There have been more casualties and KIA's in Iraq over the same period than there have been in Lebanon/Israel.

Really? I don't buy it. Where did you get those numbers? :confused:

[demotivater]

Really? I don't buy it. Where did you get those numbers? :confused:
I'll try to find a source. But as of Monday (I think it was Monday, maybe Tuesday morning) there were 23 Israeli troops killed since the start, and 24 US in Iraq. That numbers gone up in both places.

So far in July, there's been 38 MNF troops killed in Iraq (not counting today), and well over a thousand civilians and Iraqi police. The expected # of civilian casualties in Iraq for July could reach 4000. There were 3000 or so killed in July. The numbers are different depending on where you look. But it's pretty clear the Iraq numbers are higher than the 600 or so total (civies and soldiers) killed in Lebanon and Israel.

Here's (http://icasualties.org/oif/) a decent site with some numbers.

[Moon Pie]

What ever happened to that cow-farts-cause-global-warming-and-hurricanes panic a few years ago? Surely some enterprising young programmer has come up with a sulution.

Cow + hose + storage tank = ?

[demotivater]

What ever happened to that cow-farts-cause-global-warming-and-hurricanes panic a few years ago? Surely some enterprising young programmer has come up with a sulution.

Cow + hose + storage tank = ?
Al Gores movie took a giant nosedive and that's the end of that "panic". :rolleyes:

[FunkyDexter]

To quote Jeremy Clarkson, we need to get rid of either cars or cows. It should be cars on the basis that you car ride a cow but you can't eat a car :lol:

[Moon Pie]

I voted for Al once -- for senator. Then I realized all he really wanted was to control me. First, the Gore tax. Next I'll be riding a fartless cow.