why israeli/palestian war started...

[kovan]

the SIMPLE reason
and you blame the palestians for starting the war
one of dick heads in israeli opposition or what ever
goes to jeruesalem
and claims "this is TEMPLE MOUNT, NOT Dome of the rock, there is nothing holy to muslims here but everything holy to jews"
now tell me wouldnt that piss anyone off to extreme
claiming that it has nothing to do with their religion

i wanna see Sheroon.. or how ever you spell his name
to be punished for saying that which has lead to this UN RELIGIOUS war

thats what i am pissed about and thats what every other muslim is pissed about at the fact that some loser goes claim that Al Quds is not holy to muslims...

Scorp
------
the "mob" killed the soldiers after 12 year old boyz were being shot in the head

all i got to say is this war better say non religous(and sheroon has made it religious) or you will see the worlds biggest war, who wins? NO ONE, but if my religion is attacked, i will defend it with my life

read my signature

[HarryW]

If it was the fault of one person saying that, why is there a war brewing? Why involve every Israeli and every Palestinian?

[JPRoy392]

There will NEVER be peace in that section of the world. It is sad to say but it is true. The United States has made countless attempts to promote peace in that part of the world, and now I think its time we gave up. :(

It wouldn't surprise me that WWIII is started in the Middle East over Religion or Oil.

:mad: kovan

I don't know about the 12 year old boys, but what really pisses me off is that the Palestinians send their kids to the streets to throw rocks on innocent Israeli people.

What do you want us to do?
Stand back and watch them kill innocent people? :mad:

This Arafat guy should co-operate if he really wants peace!
After he ran away at the first summit conference and released all the prisoners from all the prisons in order for them to cause chaos in the streets, I don't think they really want peace, do they? :mad:

As Barak said, for peace we need a partner, and Arafat doesn't look like one.

[kovan]

SCORP
when there is no adults left(since most of the jailed and killed by israelis) to defend their land and beliefs then kids will of course take defend whats theirs
they have NOT killed any innocent people in this ward
they killed 3 soldiers, soldiers means your life is on the line....

HARRYW
well there shoudn't have been that reaction
but for a reaction to happen there had to be something to cause it
so if you go DOWN into the roots
its israeli's fault for what thier oppossion ass said

i think they REALLY pushed it this time
before it was all about "palestenian and israeli's"
now israel is DIRECTLY attacked islam
and no muslim will let that happen
again i say, i PERSONALLy will defend my belief at ALL costs
i dont like "MOST" Arabs that much, or i would have made a bigger reaction for killing of palestinians
but since this is a DIRECT attack at my beliefs..
if there is war, then be it (something i will want to be avoided at all costs expcept when my religion is directly attacked)

what ever happens israel is to blame since they started THIS one


personally i think peace wont solve THIS war
what will? no idea
but again i think israeli REALLY messed up this one
which woke up the muslim world..

and is for US, they want to make "peace" so that they look like the good guy... and they only will make peace if its what israeli wants..
and if palestians dont agree to what the "peace" is offering them (which of course is in favour of jews)
then US directly blames arafat for not making peace

there has to be something to make the peace happen
when one side wants more then there wont be peace
and no palestians are not asking for more and more
they are asking for whats THEIRS

religious conflict SUCK



by
JPROY..
There will NEVER be peace in that section of the world. It is sad to say but it is true.

lets not give up on hope
i think if US took their nose out of this one it would be better..

because they pick favourites..

and when you have the peace maker pick favourites, it wont happen

its israeli's fault for what thier oppossion ass said


what ever happens israel is to blame since they started THIS one

I agree that it was wrong to attack the whole muslim world, but you are acting like a four year old.
No one really started this war.
This has been going for a loooong time now, and no one is to blame at this, both sides 'contributed' to the situation.

lets not give up on hope
i think if US took their nose out of this one it would be better..

because they pick favourites..

and when you have the peace maker pick favourites, it wont happen

We can't give up on peace, but at the current state, no one can talk to the Palestinians.
You can't blame Americans for making this situation worse, don't forget the terrorist strike on the American ship at the shores of Kuwait.

[kovan]

i think i said lets not give up on peace because it can be achieved...
but when the americans are in, it wont happen because as i said before they are picking favourites

yes THIS war (the one currently going on)
was started by a dumb ass named sheroon...


if i am acting like a 4 year old then be it
my belief has been attacked directly
and i have every right to act any way i look at the situation...

if he wasn't an ASS he woudn't have made such a stupid comment to add more fuel to the fire..


We can't give up on peace, but at the current state, no one can talk to the Palestinians

hmm i think if i saw my 12 year old shot DEAD in my arms
i think i would be a little ticked off dont you think?
three of israelis are dead, when there is over 200 of palestianians hmm i think i would be ticked off too if i was taken advantage of because i have no tanks, helicopers and other deadly weapons to fight with other than STONES to defend myself

[HarryW]

Well it seems to me like both sides are to blame. Seems like basically the Palestinians don't like the Israelis and the Israelis don't like the Palestinians. So there is conflict.

Although I really don't want to take sides here, Kovan, Sc0rp is right, you are not really being fair here and to be honest, if you're trying to convince people of your case, your tone makes me sceptical of what you're saying. You seem to be very passionate about it and you are not making any concessions, which implies to me that you're not telling the whole story.

Just because one guy said one thing and it snowballed, according to what you've said, that's no reason to say 'the Israelis started it'. I'm sure you need to look at the bigger picture. If one Guy from Belgium says to the world that I'm an ******* I'm not going to hold it against everyone in Belgium. This conflict has to be about more than the words of one man, whether those that are involved are willing to admit it or not.

Kovan, when you say that the Palestinians are asking for what's theirs, what do you mean? Do you mean the land? Why is it theirs? If it's because they used to own the land, I'm sorry but I don't really see that as a valid argument. England was conquered by the Normans once, that doesn't mean that we're going to hand it back over to the French.


I am sorry to say negative things about only the Palestinian's side of this thread, but Kovan, you seem to be too passionate about this to make a rational argument. Please try to be reasonable. Sc0rp was, in the previous post, also a bit unreasonable, but in the last post he made he has taken a much more mature attitude. I know you're not going to like each other, but try to be reasonable, please.

Oh gosh I sound like I'm really looking down at you, I'm not, honestly, I just don't understand the conflict properly and I want this thread to continue in an informative manner because then I can get some information about the conflict first-hand, instead of the propaganda that the British media will feed everyone.

[kovan]

hehe no no
this is how i said "israeli"
well since sheroon is in the oppossition party of israel
i think what he said he said it on behalf of israel because according to what i undrestand he went to jeruesalem on behalf of the government
or something like that

and to show the attitude that i did
ya i think it was harsh
but you dont undrestand how ticked off i am
nothing tickes me off more than someone attacking my belief without REASON, that means if you have something bad to say about my belief, i will not snap if you do it accordinly and with facts
if you just simply say "islam sucks" or "there is nothing holy to muslims" without reason i think every muslim would be ticked off

yep both sides are to blame

but "israeli's" started this mini war..

and why was it so sensitive
because that is the BIGGEST problem to this wars going on between the two

about land..
well thats another problem i have no sympathy for the palestianians, they lost it in ward TOO BAD

why should they destroy one of the beliefs of all muslims?
so israel is in control of dome of the rock
as long as we as muslims are allowed to do the rituals as we believe to that place i could careless who is controling it..

i said this before, i dont like many "arabs"

oh n harryw, hehehe
you sound like one of my ex gf's hehehe

no offense taken by what you said..

[Juan Carlos Rey]

Americans speak about peace to look like the good guys, and at the same time sell weapons like crazy, if possible to both sides.
Bussines is bussines...

[kovan]

das right

all the weapon saddam has he got it from US,
US was giving it to him to hit IRAN
now saddam is the bad guy :)

[HarryW]

Err.. is that good? :)

Since I haven't really heard the Israeli's version of the story where someone said that the Dome of the Rock wasn't a Muslim holy site, I can't really say much about it, but if what you say is accurate (I have to take it with a pinch of salt) then I agree that is a totally ridiculous thing to say. Since I'm not passionately religious I don't know how I'd react, but I can understand it's pissed a lot of Muslims off.

I think Jethro said, in a different thread, that Jerusalem (I'm used to calling it that, hope you don't take offense if I don't call it Al Quds) is an independant state or something like that, and is not owned by any country specifically. Like the Vatican City I suppose. Is this not correct?

[kovan]

i woudn't know who its "owned" by
and really i could carelless as long as i can do what i believe in..

names really mean much..
Jesus is Isa, Isa is jesus :)
jereusalem is quds, quds is jereusalem..

i dont know if "Al Quds" is a arabic name or Quranic name

all i kno wis Dome of The Rock is mentioned in the Quran..

n e who'z i dun care if its owned by joe doe
as long as i can do what i want to


about the gf thing
it wasn't pretty, thats all i got to say :)

The Dome of the Rock is a holy place for Muslims.

The thing about it is that it was built by Muslims exactly where the Temple (Holy for jews) used to be. This is why it's called the Temple Mount.

Jerusalem doesn't belong to Israel nor to any other country, it is under the UN's control.
Jerusalem (Al Quds) is mentioned over 800 time in the
Bible, while it doesn't appear even once in the Quran.

I'm not trying to imply that the muslims claim false arguments, I'm just trying to say how much it means to jews.
I, personally, would like to see Jerusalem under Israel's controls simply because I think it needs to be recognized as the official Capital of Israel.
This fact doesn't mean that the Muslims don't get any rights to do any religious stuff they want there.

[Edited by Sc0rp on 10-16-2000 at 02:00 PM]

[HarryW]

It's never pretty is it :) Even when it seems like a clean breakup, and everything's okay or seems to be considering the situation, something happens and just f***s it all right up.

At the moment I think I'd be happiest if I never had to see or speak to my ex-girlfriend ever again. As you said, not pretty.

[barrk]

War does not determine who is right; war determines who is left.

[kovan]

what says it is the OFFICIAL capital of jerusalem?

why did muslims build dome of the rock there?
because both them and jews think its sacred because of Abraham..
so why does that make it an israeli capital?

bigger problemo..

palestineans want it as thier capital
and jews want it as their capital

o boy..

besides WHY in the world move the capital to Quds from Tel Aviv to cause a bigger problem?

oh and to answer your question
dome of the rock is mentioned few times in the quran..
if you want i can even give you references....


i will be MAJORLY pissed off if its under israeli control cus right now they dont allow all rituals happen for muslims
so thats not a good sign..


Jerusalem (Al Quds) is mentioned over 800 time in the
Bible, while it doesn't appear even once in the Quran.

I'm not trying to imply that the muslims claim false arguments, I'm just trying to say how much it means to jews.


hmmm last time i checked jews didn't believe in bible
and now your using the bible content to show that quds means a lot to jews?

how ironic :)

on a serious note
proven fact that its HOLY TO Muslims, Christians, AND Jews
why leave christians out of this one?


o boy, 3 worlds biggest religions going at it
its gonna get ALMOST as messy as how i broke up with my last gf,

HARRYW i bet you cant beat that :)

[kovan]

EQUAL TO RIGHT
dos ******* :)

[barrk]

Might does not equal right.....unfortunately no one is declared as being right or wrong if both sides lose. Everyone will lose if there is no peace in this region in the near future. There will be no one left to be right or wrong.

BTW the Old Testament of the Bible is very sacred to the Jews.

kovan


hmmm last time i checked jews didn't believe in bible
and now your using the bible content to show that quds means a lot to jews?


I'm sorry to correct you but the Bible IS and will always be very, very, very sacred for the Jews.
The Bible for us, is AT LEAST like Quran for Muslims.

You left me with my mouth open when you said that.

[kovan]

i thought jew (most of them) didn't believe in jesus at all?

learn something new every day...

[Edited by kovan on 10-16-2000 at 03:00 PM]

[barrk]

If you have read the Bible at all you would know that the Old Testament is prior to the birth of Christ. Jews do believe that there was in fact a human named Jesus who believed He was the son of God but....Jews do not believe that he was the son of God.

[kovan]

ok so i and jews agree on something :)
that Jesus is not son of god
but do they believe he was even a messanger?
i am more lost then i was

if they believe in jesus, then they believe he brought the word of God down right?

now i am starting to think that jews believe in bible
but reject jesus?

or am i wrong

yap i know old testimate is pre jesus..
and i have read it :)

my question was regarding new tesimate

[barrk]

You've got it. Jews do believe in the New Testament but do reject Jesus as the son of God.

[kovan]

hehe thats funny :)
dont you think thats kind of odd?
from my undrestanding.. the new testimate is mostly about jesus being God, son of god, and the other part of the trinity

n e ways thanks for the enough

i thought jews rejected the WHOLE new testimate but did believe in old testimate....

o well

thanks for da clarity

[barrk]

Boy did I goof!!! Sorry about that! I was typing and listening to the conversation by cube mates were having at the same time. I meant to say....

Jews do believe in the OLD Testament but do reject Jesus as the son of God.

[Guv]

Kovan, my primary problem with the Palestinian/Arab attitude is that they do not believe that the Jews have any right to a nation of their own in the Middle East. Arafat has consistently talked about a holy war to get rid of the Jews.

Note that I am an atheist WASP, not a Jew. I admit to being biased against the Muslims because they seem to me to be fanatic. A death sentence for blasphemy? Die bombing a boat or a bus? Get violent over what somebody says about your religion? Advocate holy wars? There are the acts of rational people?

The Jews have made a lot of concessions in the last 5-10 years, while Arafat does not seem to have given up anything significant.

Note that when the Jews were in charge of various religious sites, they tended to allow Muslims & Christians to worship at those sites, while the Arabs have tended to vandalize Jewish sites and deny access when they were in charge.

When the UN declared Palestine an independent state, it was the Arab world that started a war and claimed that Jews could not live there. The Palestinians were told that those who stayed in Israel would be considered collaborators. Did the oil rich Arab nations ever accept any responsibility for those actions? I know that the Arabs who stayed in Israel at that time have tended to be better off than the ones who left.

What would the Palestinians do if the Israelis gave up unconditionally? What terms would they dictate if there was no opposition?

[Gen-X]

Kovan

they have NOT killed any innocent people in this ward


And you can be 100% totally and completely sure of this from so far away?

Its interesting how people see things differently depending on whether they are wanting to justify the actions of their religion/race or whatever.


but if my religion is attacked, i will defend it with my life


Is your religion worth more than the lives of human beings? The lives of your family? The lives of everyone you care about?

And some people here wonder why I have such a problem with "religion" in general if it produces people who would destroy a world... universe if they could, just to "defend" their religion.

People should stop looking to the skys and start looking at the people around them... Everyone has a mother, everyone has children... No ONE life is worth more than the other and an "eye for an eye" is the worst reason to kill a person as it only makes things worse. I would have thought years of this conflict continuing on was proof of that.

Its a sad sad world :(

[HarryW]

Do you mind? This thread is (hopefully) about this conflict specifically. There are plenty of other threads for you to anti-evangelise in, please don't turn this one in the same direction, I'm interested in it at the moment.

[kovan]

Guv
i think your NOT being fair
your classifying those "fanatics" as what muslims are

CLEARLY, CLEARLY quran states "you CANNOT kill or fight ANYONE unless it is for your defence...."
so just cus some LOSERS go kill innocent people and claim it to do it for "allah"
thats not right to say those are muslims..

our prophet (peace be upon him)
said you can fight only in your defence and in out of 12 months, 4 of them are holy and war is forBIDDEDN

arab/palestinians does NOT = muslim
just cus they think there shoudnt' be any jewish rights that doesnt mean islam says that
infact islam clearly states that "people of the book" being christians and jews are to be respected....

i hope everyone would undrestand that arab/palestinian or any type of arab does NOT = muslim

and where in the quran does it say "death panelty for blashphemy?"

Quran clearly states that Allah is the judge of all
so if you do something wrong
according to "ISLAM" i cannot say "you did that wrong and you should be killed for it"

according to my belief, allah will deal with you for that
but if you attack me in war
i have every right to defend myself dont i?


so a muslim is one who follows ISLAM
not the culture of arabs....



GEN X
maybe if you undrestood my belief you would had a better undrestanding of what i mean
but you just come out of no where and say stuff..

my religion IS my family, my friends, my everything
my religion teaches me family values, friendship values and everything else

so giving up my life for it means i am giving it up to everything i have..

when someone attacks my religion
they attack my family, my friends, and every other thing i value you in life

that goes for the environment around me, the people around me
and every othe humanitarian

you fail to see that i live MOST(trying on making it all) of my life according to islam..
undrestand that REAL islam is before you make assumptions
cus you really bad at the assumptions you make

and HARRYW is 100% right

[Gen-X]

Then out of respect I wont post in this thread.