New Harddrive + XP

[alacritous]

Hello,
I just bought a new hard drive. I want to make this my main (and get rid of the one I have now) to make me have one hard drive. I'm not worrying about transfering the data, but how do I install Windows XP? I don't think it's bootable. The last time I tried it wouldn't work. The last time, I had to install Windows98 and then install WindowsXP, which obviously takes time and I think it degrades performance.

Thanks,
Alacritous

[Jlarini]

I'm not sure about XP, but W2K CD has an Dir "MAKEBOOTDISK" or some what like...

Take a look! ;)

JL

[alacritous]

Jlarini,
I don't believe it has such a folder.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Alacritous

[dglienna]

I was told that you could just insert the Win98 CD when XP searches for the old OS. After it finds it, re-insert the XP installation disk. Haven't tried it, though. Post your results!

[alacritous]

With all due respect, obviously, you didn't read what I said.

I bought a new hard drive. I am replacing my old one with the new hard drive. Hence, I have NOTHING installed. No files at all.

How do I install Windows XP from a new hard drive, with nothing on it?

Alacritous

[<ABX]

If the windows xp cd is from the manufacture, *should* be bootable.

How did you install win98, booting from the cd? If so then there is a problem with your winxp disk.

Otherwise you need to enable booting from the cdrom drive *first* b4 the hard drive

[alacritous]

I have the Windows XP Corporate edition.

[Ideas Man]

The Windows XP CD is bootable, check your boot order and set the CD before the HDDs. If you are still having trouble, do NOT install 98, you are right, it does degrade performance.

Try this: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310994&Product=winxp

[whothis]

Is your XP cd just a upgrade ,i dont think that boots does it ..?

[Ideas Man]

Originally posted by whothis
Is your XP cd just a upgrade ,i dont think that boots does it ..?

He's already said it's the corporate version, so it's not an upgrade. And yes, I think you'll find they are bootable.

[Dave Sell]

Boot to the XP CD and it will ask you to create partitions in the new (raw) drive.

If this is not an option then say so and I will help you get this working.

[whothis]

Originally posted by Ideas Man
He's already said it's the corporate version, so it's not an upgrade. And yes, I think you'll find they are bootable.

OPPS missed that bit ,well i never could get a xp upgrade to boot on a clean harddrive needed 4 floppies first..?

[alacritous]

Hello,
Thanks for the replies :D.

I'll try and set it up tonight. Because of the tedious process, it might take a while and I'd rather play games, lol.

I wonder how much installing 98, then xp, degrades performance. If you've read my topic about the "maximum performance", that might be a key into making my computer much better.

Alacritous

[dglienna]

I used a WinME boot disk to enable CD-Rom support. Unfortunately I installed W98. Now I've come to learn that it isn't necessary. Just run SETUP on the XP disk, and swap them as I stated earlier.

[alacritous]

:mad:

Unfortunately, as smart as I am, I made a mistake.

It actually turned out that it booted.

When it was creating a partition, I was just reviewing the manual again, and I read that you must/need to use the cable it came with. So, stupidly, I shut down the computer and put in the correct cable. DUMB.

I think that this has caused an error. Whenever I start up and have the XP CD in, it says "Error loading operating system". I think that was caused by my dumb action.

I now have everything booted up, with my 2 hard drive (the new and old), and my cd rom + cd rw. I'm thinking I can use a program to clear out the 120GB (new) of the "half-partitioned" "corrupted operating system" part.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I might screw up more things, but I'm currently formatting it using the Window XP Formatting thing.

Alacritous

[Ideas Man]

All that means is that you deleted the OS but never installed another one. Format it again from scratch, install Windows XP and it'll be right.

[alacritous]

Hmm, weird, lol.

No one has ever got this. (not even my dad) Maybe it is, truely, my fault. Even though it doesn't make any difference, I'll set it clear. The new drive is going to be the only drive. e.x. I'm getting rid of the 20GB (old) and only having one.

Like I said, it doesn't make a different, just noting.

I'm formatting it now, which takes quite a while, being its a 120GB :).

I probably won't have time to install, because I have school tomorrow.

Thanks guys! All the years I've been on VBForums (been on another name), everyone is so helpful. I try my best to help if I know the answer :).

Alacritous

[Ideas Man]

Originally posted by alacritous
Hmm, weird, lol.

No one has ever got this.

What do you mean no one has ever got this?

[dglienna]

you mean nobody has gotten this TWICE! lol
been there. done that. didn't get fired, as it was my system!

[alacritous]

Hello,

After I formatted the drive,I unplugged the old one abd made the new one the only one on the system.

I start up with the cd in the drive, and it says the following:


NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to restart


Alacritous

[Dave Sell]

Make the new drive (partition) Active! If you don't, the mobo will not look to it as the primary bootable device. Fdisk can do this for you.

[alacritous]

Originally posted by Dave Sell
Make the new drive (partition) Active! If you don't, the mobo will not look to it as the primary bootable device. Fdisk can do this for you.

The drive is the Master. It also shows up as Primary.

I don't understand. It wasn't making all these errors when I hadn't formatted the drive.

Alacritos

[alacritous]

I think I will need to explain because I think this is why your answers arn't very helpful.

I bought the new 120GB hd to REPLACE the old one. E.G. I'm only having ONE hard drive.

Obviously, after I formatted it, I can use it as a second disk. So I should be able to install WindowsXP, but obviously its giving me that error.

NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart

Alacritous

[StevenHickerson]

Alac try this,

Get your hands on a boot disk with a basic Config system on it. If you can't find one let me know and I can upload mine zipped up. (I think windows may have an option to create a boot disk that would work).

When you get to the command prompt with your new hard drive plugged in as primary and your old disconnected execute the command FDISK. Now your gonna have to look around and figure out what partitions are set up on the hard drive already and delete them all. Then go to the option to Create Primary Dos Partition, do that, its going to verify integrity then ask you if you want to use the maximum size, tell it yes, then it will verify again. This can take a while on a 120 GB Drive.

After your done you will have to reboot, you should be able to then boot up with the win xp cd again and let it format the drive, if it gives you dribble about not finding a drive or whatever boot up to the command prompt again and execute format c:

You should be able to install XP fine after that booting up with the CD. If you have to use this method it'll ask you if you want to use the partition with the current file format or convert it to NTFS, I'd recommend going ahead and converting to NTFS for security purposes.

If nothing else you can get a HD setup utilty like EZDrive or something that should do most of this automatically for you.. although I never really liked that stuff hehe always been accustomed to the old DOS commands :)

[alacritous]

Originally posted by StevenHickerson
Alac try this,
"Alac" nice :D

Originally posted by StevenHickerson
If nothing else you can get a HD setup utilty like EZDrive or something that should do most of this automatically for you.. although I never really liked that stuff hehe always been accustomed to the old DOS commands :)
What kind of a sick person would do such a thing? DOS baby! :D

Originally posted by StevenHickerson
If you can't find one let me know and I can upload mine zipped up. (I think windows may have an option to create a boot disk that would work).
Please do. I'll create a boot disk anyway, but still upload if possible.

Alacritous

Just checking, you mean an MS-DOS boot disk right? edit no?
I tried and reboot, and typed "FDISK" (and tried "fdisk") and it said "bad command or no such command" or the like.

[StevenHickerson]

Argg Win XP makes it difficult lol on 95 and 98 you could make a boot disk with system files and then just copy over FDISK and stuff.. but if you try that with a MS DOS startup disk from win XP you get Wrong Dos Version.

I'm seeing if I can figure out another solution for you. If someone dosn't present one before hand. I tested it and just uploading the files dosn't work because there are hidden files that even Show hidden files in windows dosn't show.. I assume they are hidden in the boot sector or something.

[StevenHickerson]

Ohhh how about this,

You seem to have a copy of Windows 98 because you said last time you had to install 98 first. Well the 98 disc should be bootable, when booting with it it'll give you the option to start with win 98 setup start with cd rom support or start without cdrom support. You'll want to start with cdrom support.

The 98 Disk has the FDISK command on it and should allow you to do the stuff I said before.

:bigyello:

So give that a try and let me know!

[alacritous]

OK, my recent "adventure" makes the problem different.

Even when I put in any bootable thing, it still says
NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart

Now, I think when I formatted I did something. After I formatted it, I tested it and moved a file there. Possibly, would that of caused a problem? Yes, it sounds rediculous, but with a problem as open as this it's quite normal.

At the moment, I'm formatting it again.

Alacritous

[StevenHickerson]

If reformatting again dosn't work try this solution here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q314057&ID=KB;EN-US;q314057

I think you can do all those commands in a xp command prompt with the drive as a slave.

[Dave Sell]

Say it with me: "You have to set the partition to be ACTIVE"

[alacritous]

Originally posted by StevenHickerson
If reformatting again dosn't work try this solution here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q314057&ID=KB;EN-US;q314057

I think you can do all those commands in a xp command prompt with the drive as a slave.

That wouldn't be the case.

The hard drive has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on it.

The system/startup partition is formatted with the FAT32 file system.
The computer starts by using INT-13 extensions. (This is a partition larger than 7.8 GB with a System-ID type of 0C in the partition table).
Because of the cloning procedure, the Heads (sides) value in the FAT32 BIOS Parameter Block (BPB) does not match the geometry of the physical drive.

1.The computer was NEVER a FAT32.

2.I NEVER cloned anything, and which I didn't even USE the Microsoft Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition at ANY point.

BTW, I'm still reformatting due to the massive 120GB HDD :D.

Alacritous

[StevenHickerson]

Alac while you dont meet all the conditions of their possible cause for the problem that dosn't mean you dont have the same problem :)

So that solution may yet still work if formating again dosn't.

Dave, Unless I'm mistaken the only way to set a partition active is using fdisk... and one of the problems is Alac can't get to fdisk (XP dosn't support it and he apparently can't boot to a prompt with the error).

[alacritous]

Nope, didn't work.

It didn't even boot to the Windows 98 thing.

Also, why would this work when I have both the hard drive connected?

Thanks,
Alacritous

[dglienna]

the HD has jumpers on it which set it as Primary or Slave. If both are set to the same value, there wil be an error.
There may be a BIOS setting to let you boot to CD. Check the Boot Order: set it to CD, Floppy, HardDrive.

[Dave Sell]

Originally posted by alacritous
Hello,

After I formatted the drive,I unplugged the old one abd made the new one the only one on the system.

I start up with the cd in the drive, and it says the following:

NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to restart


Alacritous

Actually, if you got this far, then the drive is set up correctly to be active.

The message suggestst that NT was installed correctly on the drive, but since got hosed. It is possible you have a boot-sector virus, or worse, a damaged boot sector.

If you recently bought the drive, I would get a refund.

[alacritous]

Hello,

Not to criticise, but it's TOTALLY not a virus, as I MENTIONED I just bought it. Now, how does a hard drive work then get a "damaged sector"? Like I said, it worked, but then I restarted the computer when the XP cd was formatting/partitioning it.

(edit, read below, the follwing paragraph won't work)
Like you said, which was good, I think I might return it for another one. Although, I don't think this is the case. Whether or not it is, it'll be easier to set up without doing more with the one now. I bought it at Circuit-City and they are great with returning, esp. hardware.

If I do this, I'll be getting the easy way out :).

edit: I just thought that there were no more when I bought it. Also, I reconsidered. I don't think it's a hardware problem. OK, listen up, I'm going to refresh your minds.

Previous:

1. I bought the harddrive. I plugged it in, etc.
2. I booted up with the WinXP cd in, and it recognized it.
3. It asks to format or do something along those lines (forgot)
4. I do so, and it takes a while.
5. At about 90%, I read in my instructions to only use the ribon cable it comes with. I shutdown, replug it in, and boot up.
6. It doesn't work. (I forget exactly what error, like what happened in order, but I think it was the "NTLDR is missing" one.)

Let me specify on #6. When I say I forget exactly what error, I'm not saying there was another error I didn't tell you. I'm saying it was one of the errors I said earlier.

Current:
Whenever I boot up, using ANY cd (win98, winxp, etc) it comes up with the following error:
NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart
I have tried everything, as stated in the Microsoft pages that you brought to my attention, and tried what you did. The Microsoft page about the specific error (NTLDR) didn't help, as I couldn't boot the win98 cd. I also tried formatting it again, and no luck came.

I'm thinking now that I didn't plug it in exactly right. Yes, it shows it's the "aster"/Primary, but for some odd reason, I'm suspecting this. I did the right jumper (default) because it's the only drive.

Thanks,
Alacritous

[dglienna]

do you have it set to boot to the CD first? it may be booting to the empty drive.

[whothis]

Can i ask you the name of the harddrive

[alacritous]

Originally posted by dglienna
do you have it set to boot to the CD first? it may be booting to the empty drive.

*** are you talking about?

I'm installing an OPERATING SYSTEM on a 120GB drive, that has nothing on it. In other words, I WANT it to boot to the "empty" drive. There are NO other HDD in the PC. Read next time.


Originally posted by whothis
Can i ask you the name of the harddrive
Western Digital HARD DRIVE 7200 RPM 8MB Cache 120GB

Alacritous

[dglienna]

I meant in the BIOS. That would cause an error if it's booting to an empty drive first. If you set it to CD first, you can change it back after doing the OS install. The CD would also boot properly.
Read my posts!

Doesn't your machine boot to the floppy first if there's one in there? It should. Make CD first, floppy second, and HD third while installing the OS.

If you don't know, as the computer boots, you can press a key to get to SETUP/BIOS. You can change things that come into effect the next time the computer boots.

[alacritous]

Originally posted by alacritous
Not to criticise, I don't want to do too much, but I think its needed. I just want to fix the problem so I can do what I need. And I realize your trying to help, though.

Originally posted by dglienna
Read my posts! I believe all you said was "do you have it set to boot to the CD first? it may be booting to the empty drive.", and nothing about the bios. You said you "meant" so that covers that.

Originally posted by dglienna
If you don't know, as the computer boots, you can press a key to get to SETUP/BIOS. You can change things that come into effect the next time the computer boots. I know........................

I'll try changing some of the bios's settings.

Does anyone else have any ideas?

Alacritous

[Ideas Man]

My my, hasn't this got outta control. I strongly advise NOT to use FDISK, forget it, Boot the Windows XP CD, either by booting off the the CD or the link I sent you telling you how to get the floppies to start setup.
Format you HDD in SETUP, make sure that other drive isn't connected.
Install Windows and you should be right.

It seems as though you tried to install Windows with that other drive in the computer, because it would've put the boot files on that HDD and you've taken it out, it can't find them any longer and won't boot.

[alacritous]

Originally posted by Ideas Man
It seems as though you tried to install Windows with that other drive in the computer, because it would've put the boot files on that HDD and you've taken it out, it can't find them any longer and won't boot.

Umm, no, it seems not.

Like I said, which obviously I have to repeat, while I had ONE DRIVE in it and it was formatting/partitioning, I shut it down.

NOTHING is bootable, for your information. (Well as far as I know the WinXP and Win98 CDs arn't.)

Alacritous

[Ideas Man]

OK, my mistake, well, just back into the formatting/partitioning stage again however you did it last time.

[dglienna]

and you don't have a bootable floppy? can you get one?
even late DOS versions have CD support. If you can do this, then you can run SETUP off of the CD, which willl format the drive.

[whothis]

Check out the link, support as in utilz/diognz for most harddrives yours is there might help .

http://www.wolfontheloose.com/index_files/harddrivetools.htm


And here for all boot disks

http://www.bootdisk.com/

Hope am not adding to the confusion, but the sites are always handy to know anyways.

Good luck

[alacritous]

Originally posted by whothis
Check out the link, support as in utilz/diognz for most harddrives yours is there might help .

http://www.wolfontheloose.com/index_files/harddrivetools.htm


And here for all boot disks

http://www.bootdisk.com/

Hope am not adding to the confusion, but the sites are always handy to know anyways.

Good luck Thanks, I'll check it out.

Originally posted by dglienna
and you don't have a bootable floppy? can you get one?
even late DOS versions have CD support. If you can do this, then you can run SETUP off of the CD, which willl format the drive. What are you talking about? How am I supposed to know what to do with a bootable floppy when you said to get one?

Originally posted by Ideas Man
OK, my mistake, well, just back into the formatting/partitioning stage again however you did it last time. Like I said, it doesn't work anymore.

[alacritous]

OK, this is really starting to piss me off.

Now, I can't even get into the BIOS.

I don't know whats wrong, but everytime I press F8 (what I thought it was) it doesn't do anything.

I try other buttons, such as Esc, F12, and F2, but it still does nothing.

It brings me to this menu:
"Your computer was not shutdown properly", etc.

I don't know what the **** is wrong, but I really want to get this working.

I was thinking of having both of the drives connected, and putting in the WinXP CD. After I do this, I was thinking of installing it, but on the new 120GB hard drive. Now, obviously, it says "You are trying to install Windows XP on a computer that has a newer system", etc. So, I was thinking to uninstall Windows XP Service Pack 2, and try again.

But, obviously, I don't want to uninstall and find something doesn't work then have to install again and things get messed.

I am now doing error checking and other various hardware tools. After I do this, I'm going to format again.

EDIT
I have visited the Western Digital homepage, which I should have done a while ago.

In their "Knowledge Base", I see the "NTLDR is missing" erorr, the same one as mine. It states that it is caused by a corrupted partition, exactly what happened when I tried to install. (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=126&p_created=1007149550&p_sid=BMDkWelh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0xMDQmcF9jYXRfbHZsMT0xODImcF9wYWdlPTI*&p_li=)

They stated to ways to solve the problem:

Boot to the floppies supplied by the operating system.

Set your computer's boot sequence so that you can boot from your operating system installation CD-ROM.
I must use the second way, because I do not have the floppies.

So, now, it brings me to my BIOS, in order to change the boot sequence. Now, like I said, I can't get the BIOS to open because of some strange reason.

The solution is coming!

Thanks,
Alacritous

Sorry if I got mad or critised too much, it was just because I was mad (:mad: ).

:D

[dglienna]

it tells you when the system first boots up. the problem is that it sometimes flies by too quickly. if you can hit the pause key at just the right time, you can read the screen before you press a key to un-pause. the pause key on my system is the Shift-Break key. On yours it may be different.
I've seen the DELETE key, and the SPACE bar bring up SETUP. Look on your motherboard's site for info.

[alacritous]

Hello,
Once again, I have solved one of my many problems by myself. It's the {DELETE} key. So, I went into BIOS, and changed some settings. I overclocked the 1.8GHz to 2.4GHz, which I should have done later (read on). I changed one of the CD-ROM's to boot instead of the other (it was my cd-rw, but I changed it to my real CD-ROM, even though the ribon cables arn't connected like that). I press the button for "save and exit", and it saves, then exits. After waiting a while, nothing appears on the screen. I shutdown (press the on button), it does nothing. So, I'm forced to turn the On/Off switch (on the back) to off. I try doing various things, which some are listed below:

- I try disconnected the 2 CD-ROMS (because I think the fact that I made one bootable, when the cables don't go that way might have done this)
- I try switching the hard drive to the new 120GB.
- I try booting from a WinXP and Win98 CD-ROM

- After thinking it might be my monitor, I try switching monitors with another, and it still shows nothing.

So right now, I'm stuck doing absolutely nothing (can't even boot...). BTW, I'm posting on another computer in my house. The reason I said read on about the overclock is this. If I didn't do the overclock, then I could have pointed it down to the booting part of the CD-ROM's, making that the problem. See, now, I can't test to see if it wsa the overclock or the booting of CD-ROMs

Just for an opinion, do you think I should post another thread in the General Computers forum about this problem?

EDIT
I fixed it by changing the Frequency Multiplier and the Frequency (something) to a different one. I had to change the JumperFree setting to Jumper. I am trying to edit the BIOS so I can "change the boot sequence so you boot from the operating sytem installation CD" as the Western Digital people said. I think I have a clue on how to do this, but can anyone tell me if you know exactly? Otherwise, I'll just find out, just might be a little while. Although, I think I have it.

Thanks in advance,
Alacritous

[<ABX]

NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart


The reason why this is happing is because you failed installing xp and the computer is trying to boot off the drive before it tries the cds.

Can you post some information on your motherboard so i can find a manual to walk you thru configuring the bios so that it tries to boot of the cds first.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try this:

Boot of the old 20gig drive. (Im assuming this has xp on it)
Right Click On my Computer and Select Manage

On the left hand side select Disk Management under the Storage node.

Right Click On the 120gig Drive
Delete any exisiting partitions.
Create a New Partition and format it.

ShutDown the computer.

Remove the 20gig hard drive and try to boot from the cd.

[alacritous]

Hello,
My idea on changing the boot sequence worked! So, right now I'm installing Windows XP (well, formatting)! Even though I pretty much solved everything myself :), without you all helping me it wouldn't have been fixed. Because, I wouldn't have even gone to the Western Digital website if you guys hadn't told me to. (Thanks to Microsoft for the badly explained article)

SO THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!
ALACRITOUS
:) :D ;) :p :cool: :bigyello: :wave: :lol: :ehh: :thumb:

[Ideas Man]

Don't blame Microsoft for your own stupidity. If you hadn't shut the thing down while it was formatting, you'd be right, seems odd that it would suddenly 'stop' working as well.

And what article are you referring to anyway?

[dglienna]

My idea on changing the boot sequence

Don't pat yourself on the head for that idea. I said it three times. The first one was 9/9/04. See below:


There may be a BIOS setting to let you boot to CD. Check the Boot Order: set it to CD, Floppy, HardDrive.
-----
do you have it set to boot to the CD first? it may be booting to the empty drive.
-----
I meant in the BIOS. That would cause an error if it's booting to an empty drive first. If you set it to CD first, you can change it back after doing the OS install. The CD would also boot properly.
Read my posts!

Doesn't your machine boot to the floppy first if there's one in there? It should. Make CD first, floppy second, and HD third while installing the OS.

If you don't know, as the computer boots, you can press a key to get to SETUP/BIOS. You can change things that come into effect the next time the computer boots.
-----

I pretty much solved everything myself

You're welcome.

You'll probably do it again!

[Ideas Man]

Yeah I thought that comment seemed odd, both actually.

[alacritous]

Originally posted by dglienna
Don't pat yourself on the head for that idea. I said it three times. The first one was 9/9/04. See below:

Don't want to get on your bad side, which I probably alright am, but here it goes. Also, don't get mad at me when I put your replies away.

Your right, don't you love it?

I think it's unfair you quoted "My idea on changing the boot sequence" and nothing else. I never said I made that idea up. I just said [not clearly] that I searched through my brain and thought of that idea, stated by someone else, which happens to be you.

Originally posted by Ideas Man
Don't blame Microsoft for your own stupidity. . . .
And what article are you referring to anyway?

My stupidity? Hmm, maybe you better compare the article from Microsoft (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q314057&ID=KB;EN-US;q314057) and the article from Western Digital (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=126&p_created=1007149550&p_sid=BMDkWelh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0xMDQmcF9jYXRfbHZsMT0xODImcF9wYWdlPTI*&p_li=).



Thank you..................

After all, the best thing is that I got it working? Does it matter how I solved it? Now, yes, maybe in math, you want to understand how you got to the answer and show your work.

"Even though I pretty much solved everything myself , without you all helping me it wouldn't have been fixed.". I think that gives credit where due.

Alacritous

[Ideas Man]

Not that I want to start any flames or anything, but the article is for upgrading from a previous version of Windows to XP, not what you did, completly different.

[dglienna]

not a problem. glad its fixed.

[alacritous]

Originally posted by Ideas Man
Not that I want to start any flames or anything, but the article is for upgrading from a previous version of Windows to XP, not what you did, completly different.

I totally understand. I was given that article, and I was just noting.