VJ++ 6 vs VC++6?

[invitro]

Ok. Which 1 would u guys use. I heard that J++ has its own trash collector and many other things that C++ dosent have. It looks to me like it has the same functionality. But is it slower then C++? Is it less flexible?

And do u need any runtimes with J++? ... i dont think u do, sorry im new to the compiler. But it seems like J++ is a bit better cause u can make applets

I dont know, what do u people think??????

you make me laugh!

OK I am just kidding, but I Strongly recomend C++, it is more powerful, and J++ sucks.

J++ commonly screws up, I have tried to make 4 programs with it,
I made 2 from scratch,
you know, adding controls myself,
I got some sort of file not found error, it was an error on the compilers part, not my code, I didnt have any, I just added some command buttons that did nothing when you clicked them.

I did one project with the wizard and modified it a little bit, same errors,
the last one I did with the wizard, I did not modify it at all, and I didnt get on error,
VJ++ sucks,
well I think it does.


all of that is only IMO though... so choose whatever you want!

BTW I am not saying to choose either language, I am simply saying that the J++ Compiler sucks.

[Edited by denniswrenn on 08-20-2000 at 12:35 AM]

[invitro]

Well i guess C++ is alot faster. But java seems the languauge to learn after VB. Not only can u make applets but it has a interface that looks like vc++'s. This book im reading, they listed top 10 diff. from c++ and j++. And all i found were things that are more helpfull in j++.

Do you just hate j++ because it screws up on you all the time?

well yeah,
why would I like it if it screws up all the time??

and C++ is better, because java was made in C++ so they are similar, if you know C++ java is said to be pretty easy to learn.

Dennis, J++ does not "suck". Otherwise they would not have marketed it. Basically this language is powerful for developing Internet and Java applications.

But in the long run, yes, it's a less flexible than C++ (but it also has areas that are stronger than C++ too). Whether you should use J++ in place of C++ is situation dependant (as with any language). If you want to work with Databases, VB or VFP would be a good approach. Likewise, If you want to work with Java or Internet applications, J++ is a better approach.

J++ sucks IMO.....

[invitro]

Nobody answered the question if Java made programs need any runtimes to run on other machines?

Oh yeah, and how does java compare to VB?... faster? More flexible?...

[Paul282]

haha,

Does Java require runtimes????
In order to keep it's platform independance it requires the VM installed on the machine, which usually exists. VJ++ may have a static linker but that sort of goes against the idea of it.

Why learn Java? (unless you want the web apps or the multi platform support)

You have the easy (VB) so if you want speed the go Assembly language.

I started learning Assebly recently, got a great book from Amazon which I'm half way through, haven't written much useful yet but I've learned a lot about CPU's, registers and memory.

you can make API calls from Assembly, create a stand alone windows app in 5k!

VC++ is hard, very complex, a lot to learn. Assembly is a lot to learn too but you get a lot more out of it. (and a lot more out of learning it)

C++ isnt that hard......
its just like a bunch of API calls....

[Paul282]

How about VC++ with all that bloody MFC

grrrrrrrrrrrr

hate it

well whenever I learn to make windows with CreateWindowEx I am never gonna use MFC again I think the Best thing about VC++ is the tooltiptext that popsup when you Type in MessageBox( or GetDC( or any other API Call.

its really helpful its hard to remember all those Arg's and I hate looking it up...

[HDR]

Where does C# fit in this discussion? It is supposed to be a lot like Java. But you can mix and match within the same program, C# and C++. I'm curious what you experts have heard.

From what I have heard, it is going to be great, but some people think its a joke, because of what everybody(mainly MS and CNet) is saying about it.

[Zej]

J++ is awesome

[parksie]

J++ is crap.

Seriously, though, I think JBuilder is much better. Although for Java I tend to use the JDK, because at least you can guarantee it'll work. Also, I tend to use CORBA a lot, which requires loads of stuff that J++ would never support in a million years (like IDL->Java translation for the specific ORB).

What is Corba?

[noone]

Concerned Off-Road Bicyclists Association
OR
Common Object Request Broker Architecture.
A program that helps transfer messages to and from objects between various platforms in a distributed environment.
http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/...erm?term=CORBA

[V(ery) Basic]

I prefer C++ 'cos when Microsoft funally succeeds in taking over the world, Java will be worth its weight in radioactive waste.

[parksie]

I use CORBA to run distributed computing systems over the internet, between Malvern, UK, and Texas!

Cool, Thanks for the help, I thought CORBA was a language, like a Variation of Cobol

[parksie]

It's supposed to be language-independent.

[invitro]

All i want to do is learn a languauge that gives u power. VB is good but im sick of not beying able to create fast and powerfull programs. I mean, im always interested in programming security like firewalls and such that are impossible with VB unless u buy an OCX file which is like 600$.

So what would be the right languauge?... VC++? cause if it is im moving on to it.

[noone]

If you wan't real low lever control and speed then you are looking at C/C++ or Assembly. Java was never designed for low level control of the machine, in fact to get platform independence you end up with the opposite.

[parksie]

Although you can code native modules for different OSs, and use the rest in Java.

[invitro]

Whats the difference between C++, C and VC++?
I hird VC++ was the best. Is that true?

[Edited by invitro on 08-21-2000 at 08:20 PM]

I dont know much about the history.. but
First it was C, Then came C++, and MS wanted to have there say in it, so they made VC++
its the same language, but VC++ is microsoft's flavor of the compiler, it is one of the best too. the reason for the V is for Visual which means its really easy to add controls and stuff.

[Paul282]

C++ was originally called "C with Classes" it is C with OO technology built in. The early versions of C++ were just a piece of software that coverted the OO C++ code to ANSI C code.

It grew from there with a few flavours till it was standardised by ANSI a couple of years ago. Borland supports the full ANSI C++ spec but MS doesn't. I've used The borland compiler a few times, it's quite nice because it's a RAD like VB but it's riddled with pascal because it's object model VCL was taken from Delphi, which makes componant creation annoying.

MS VC++ looks more powerful but MFC 5hit5 me

C# looks quite good, MS admits that VC++ got a bit out of hand so it's an effort to take the good parts of OO and the access to low level programming and make it faster to develop with (plus web support of course). the code is in a similar C style but you won't have to worry about getting lost in multiple inheritance 'cause they dumped it, they also put a garbage collector in it too (like Java).

I don't like java much so I can't really comment on it, a few of the ideas of it are nice but it's annoying.

Assembly still has me riveted of late, just haven't written anything yet... great way to learn the inner workings of a CPU


[Edited by Paul282 on 08-21-2000 at 10:44 PM]

[parksie]

I always found MFC easier to use than VCL, though.

[invitro]

I guess its a better idea to go with MS VC++ after all!
Thanks for all the replies!!!

[noone]

I think it's a good idea to learn ANSI C++ before you start learning the specifics of VC++.

[parksie]

Definitely. Also take a good look at the Standard C++ Library. It has all sorts of useful stuff, and is quite fast. It's also heavy on templates, so is very customisable.

[Paul282]

Delphi is to Pascal what C++ is to C, It's an OO version. Pascal can handle lower level programming than VB, pointers, threads, static linking and complete OO features. It's not necessarily faster than VB mainly because MS's ActiveX componants are better written than Delphi's VCL ones. Although Delphi can use ActiveX too now.

It's a RAD environment like VB and has a lot going for it, although I REALLY didn't like the DB support, Borland likes to ship this package called BDE... give me ADO anytime.

Pascal doesn't get as murky as C++ does... I can't explain that comment but after you look at the differences (and compatabilites) between ANSI C++, VC++, Borland C++, STL and the other template libraries... you start to realise that the different compilers might as well be different languages. Like VB to RapidQ (basic) there'd be a big dip in productivity while you learned the new system.

[invitro]

Damnit, why can't they just make a VB thats as fast as C++ and have the same possibilities.

[Paul282]

In order to protect us from ourselves they thought it wise to limit our exposure to the workings of the system.

MS keeps adding new web stuff and higher level crap...

I'd prefer (Takes a deep breath)...

Inline functions
Pointers
Direct access to memory and registers
more OO features (coming)
Threads (coming)
Bit shift operators
static linking
be able to create standard (non-automation activex) DLLs
command prompt apps
The ability (if I wanted) to not use any dll's or controlls, and just draw windows (everything) straight from the API

yeah yeah, just use C++ people say...

I like the basic language though... (Almost as much as I like whinging about it )

[noone]

I've got problems with the basic language itself, would it kill MS to add unary operators to the next version of VB?
count++
is just so much better then
count = count + 1
or
count+=5
as opposed to
count = count + 5

[parksie]

Paul282: just multiply or intdiv by 2^(bitcount) to do a shift...it's not too bad.

My request: macros...

[invitro]

I agree with noonie, even though i havent had much expirience with C++, i came to love the J++ interface and the way you have to program. Things like i++ and i+= 1 is soo much better then going i = i + 1!

What i want in VB is more control for internet things, like beying able to block certain things and actually make firewalls instead of these port listeners that work like crap cause they run out of buffer space!

[parksie]

Port Listeners are evil. Here's why:

When the request gets to your computer, the PL has already accepted it before it logs it. Unfortunately, the port scanner used to scan your computer has now logged you as 'open'. A real firewall gets at the connection before the windows internal networking does, and silently reroutes it, preventing anything from getting it. Take a look at http://grc.com for more details. You want ShieldsUP.

[invitro]

Yeah i know the portscanner already detects them as open, but u can close them.... if u have a good port listener, it closes the connection, logs the attack & identifies the data that send trough. Mine did that, but it still sucks.

I wanted to like open 50 ports to listenon, it couldent do more then 20... out of buffer space error.

O well. I need more power, thats why i wanna learn something that gives me more then VB.