The X-Box

have any of you heard of the new console microsoft is making?

its called the XBox, and it has a 733mhz processor, and a 8gb Hard Drive, all of the games are made in DirectX and it has full screen anti-aliasing, and it can have 4 simultanious textures, it also has 64mb unified ram...
but they said it isnt going to be PC compatible.

does anybody else have anything to add?

See This page (http://www.microsoft.com/PressPass/features/2000/03-10xbox.asp)

[HarryW]

Well I would point and laugh at anyone who hadn't heard of it ;)

[Fox]

*ggg* You're sooo right Harry :)

HarryW and Fox: Why is that? The current stats show that it's much more powerful than Sony's upcoming console Playstation 2.

[Sastraxi]

Well, I guess you can point at laugh at me-!

:( SobSob :(

[HarryW]

This reminds me of a popular phrase: 'There's lies, damned lies and statistics'.

Does that look like a full and complete specification to you? It doesn't to me, that's a MS site and they want to say 'hey look at this, it's soooo much better than PS2, honestly' because that's gonna be their main competitor.

I am unsure what the actual specs of the X-box are to be honest, because they have changed so much over the past year or so. Is it 128 bit? the processor frequency is near irrelevant, different provessors do different things in one clock cycle. Look at the Apple Mac G4, that's pretty damn good if I've heard correctly, and even the highest frequency G4 CPU would be entry-level for AMD or Intel.

I am actually pretty sure the specs will be impressive, maybe even better than the PS2, but I don't think that table is much use except as propaganda. I am especially intrigued by the 300 million polygons per second that they claim for the X-Box, considering the original PSX does 1 million.

At any rate, I am sure that MS will manage to make some really inefficient use of their lovely new hardware. They'll need that 8 Gb HDD for all their bloatware too ;)

I'm not a big fan of MS, but I respect their achievements, and I hope the X-Box is as good as they are hyping it to be.

[Sastraxi]

Yeah, Harry, you're right. I think that this'll be just another console. So what if Microsoft is making it! In two years, we'll look back at it and laugh like the old NES.

[Fox]

The console alone is crap, only the games make the thing good... Look at the SuperNES, sometimes I really prefer some classical games as Secret of Mana or Super Mario instead of the crappy computer games!

As the PlayStation; there are really alot of games but most of them are crap! On the N64 there arent that much games, but nearly all of them are good and have a good gameplay...

[parksie]

Excuse me for being an idiot but I think that Microsoft are really starting to get over-arrogant even for them by going head to head with SONY in the consoles market.

[HarryW]

Didn't Sony do that with Sega and Nintendo though, when they released the Playstation?

[Sastraxi]

Yeah... When I remember 2 years ago, when I was playing Chrono Trigger for the first time.... Pure Enjoyement. I still play it now, sometimes.

I really don't think the company that produces the console is relevant. People want games and that's what MS will give them.

[Fox]

Yeah, and in case it doesn't work... you know the MS-strategy:If you can't be better.. buy it!

And how come they can buy it? Because they have worked hard to build powerful software tools that everyone seems to enjoy. This is what got them rich and they can do whatever they want with their money.

[Fox]

...even if their software's full of errors, yes ;)

[HarryW]

I wouldn't debate that they have worked hard for their money, but I'm seriously in doubt as to whether they worked hard enough to deserve all the money they've got.

The fortune Microsoft has is due to its monopoly of the market. There was hard work involved in getting that monopoly, but that monopoly has allowed them to consitently overcharge their customers for the products they sell. What percentage of the money you pay for a product do you think goes on development costs? A pretty darned small one. MS say it's for support, but do you think you get the support you pay for?

I use a large range of MS products. I don't necessarily want to though. Word for instance - I would much much rather use Corel WordPerfect, but Word is the industry standard and so the .doc format is pretty universal. That there is a standard is a good thing, but it's a shame that the standard is decided by which company can flex its corporate muscles the most, not which is the better product.

[parksie]

Originally posted by HarryW
That there is a standard is a good thing, but it's a shame that the standard is decided by which company can flex its corporate muscles the most, not which is the better product.


Yeah, but hasn't it always been like that? Think back to Bell.

[HarryW]

Sorry, what about Bell?

It think he is referring to the "telephone giant". As I recall, they (or it might have been AT&T) monopolized the telepohne industry.

[slashandburn]

Remember about all microsoft software requires an patch or update so it may to.

[Krass]

Well this was an interesting X-Box thread once.

I didn't own much video game consoles but saw LOTS of playstation games in action - many were good, but why havn't they used anti-aliasing? IMHO, this is killing 60% (or maybe 65%) of the game :)

I am saying this because the playstation 2 will be like the first one - without anti-aliasing. Didn't they realize how Gran Turismo could have been better with decent graphics?!..

Have a nice day

[Primal Rage]

I agree Anti-Aliasing is a Must-Do kind of thing if you are trying to compete with other Consoles.

PR

[parksie]

I don't, actually. I would prefer higher resolutions rather than antialiasing, since AA just blurs out detail. At high resolutions, AA is a good thing, but if I could have a game at 1600x1200 with no AA, and 640x480 with, I'd choose the former.

[joelryan]

The real question -- is it VaporWare?

My own definition...

VaporWare: A product designed to stop customers from buying another product because of anticipation. VaporWare products are either never created or never released (or even released much, much later).

[/\/\isanThr0p]

Maybe I am little late for posting this, but someone asked if Microsoft can go into Competition with SONY. Sure they can!! (and btw the PS I was not only produced by sony but also I think sega, but they go into trouble and sony bought the whole thing)
The DirectX makes it a big thing! Not that I think it is much better than the systems of other systems, but It will be pretty easy to convert a whole lot of PC games in a short time. The 8GB harddisk really gives to think. A whole lot of Patches could fit on there :-)

And I read somewhere, that most of the PS I games were bad. NO THEY ARE NOT. There is a whole lot of uneeded games, but also a whole lot of real cool games. I think Bond was the only killer-app like game on the N64, while there where a lot of real cool games on the PS I.

But since I am a PC freak I don't like consoles to much. I always like to customize stuff on the games, and that is still most possible on the PC.

So... I don't think the X-Box will be "the Console", but I still it could give some interesting possibilities with all the Hardware. What I really want is a cool possibility to play one game over the internet with PCs, PSX 2, Dreamcast, X-Box and whatever will come.!

[HarryW]

I am very much a PC gamer, but I will still be buying a PS2. Why? For Tekken Tag Tournament, and that's about it :) I just love beating my best friend's ass all over the screen hehe :D

Seriously though, some games genres are just not very well suited to PCs, and I think beat-em-ups are one of them. People have different controllers and some of them suck for different games. With consoles everybody has the same (well designed!) controller (usually) and it's even ground.

Consoles are popular because you need absolutely no technical knowledge to use them. You put the game in, turn on the power and it works. Just like that. Can M$ get Windows to do that? I'll believe it when I see it ;)

[/\/\isanThr0p]

I think at the point when I don't have to mess around with Windows anymore, I will change to linux to have my mess :)

I just like doing all the stuff with my system, than beeing happy to archieve two more FPS after doing all the stuff, and than forgeting the game and never play it again!

I just like all the technical stuff. I like consoles, when I meet a bunch of my friends and we play all over the night and go home at 10am to sleep! (btw to all ppl who do this too: Do you also hate it when it gets brighter again and the Sun rises?)

[HarryW]

Well yes I hate that too, and it's 5:12 am right now so it's gonna happen soon :)

I know what you mean, you like being what's known as a 'techie fertler' (don't ask me why) and so do I sometimes, but I think the reason consoles are popular with the general public is because they're easy to use.

[Fox]

I will buy every Nintendo console just to play the new Zelda! Not joking, my friend bought the N64 and he has exactly 2 games (Zelda OOT / Zelda MM). Id do the same but well I have some more games coz theyre just good. Nintendo may have less games but they have wayyyy more gamplay than 90% of PlayStation games..

[kedaman]

Last time i played on a console was 1 year ago while i was in the army (a playstation), it was cool for a while but i missed my pc a lot. That means i'm a PC gamer and would never buy a console :) Although i've played some console games emulated on my pc and i have to agree there is something that differs console games from pc games, well ah, it's as late as it can be, 11:12 am i've beaten all of you know hehe :p

[Zero]

It can't run Windows CE. WinCE is designed for RISC and MIPS processors; it can't run on an x86. As usual, M$ isn't tipping its hand. It could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, or it could be the next "Hellbender". Worse, it could be the next "Hearts". In the long run the third party developers will make or break the X-Box. It did it with the SNES, it's doing it with the N64 (in a neegative way) and the X-Box remains to be seen. Literally.

Still, I think people like me will just cannabalize it for hardware...

~Zero the Inestimable

[MoMad]

XBOX is cool. I totally agree with that whole thing y'all
got going, but i was looking for the sdk's for this crap.
they say its free but where??? and how can you test it if
its not pc compatible? --wait, you make it on a pc, dont
you?

I dont know, im lost with this whole x-box thing. when i
first heard about it, i thought that it was gonna be some
sort of "arcade game" type, like the ones at the arcades,
(street fighters, etc...)

but then they say its a console, microsoft has big words
and stuff (e.g. innovation, this, that, blah, blah) but no
crap. I mean windows 2000 is a lamer version of NT man.

You'll have to excuse my french on this one, i think ive
been up for way too long. Its 2:16AM now, so ill just
settle with this and call it a day.

Nite'

[Krass]

You've been up for way too long? Well, me too I guess, because I was pretty sure that what you wrote was in english... ;)

[MoMad]

according to ign, http://xbox.ign.com/archives.html it all seems that the x-box is a "playstation-like" game and they also say that it will not work under the pc, but no-one ever mentions how its going to be developed. Are they gonna develop it in windows then burn the game on a cd and then test it on the x-box, or is it gonna be some nighmare trying to develop it like the playstation. It would be nice if you can play the x-box games in the ordinary pc, bu thinks just dont look too good.

Microsoft already has every popular developers "somewhat developing" new systems and genres and games for the x-box, and the damn thing isnt even coming out for another year. Its really amazing that Epic is letting out their Unreal Engine for the x-box. Not to mention that Capcom is bringing their next wave of action arcades into the x-box and so are all the big time developers.

This x-box is getting waay too popular, and its NOT coming out for another year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, im going nuts, but Microsoft is so good at selling their products, it just makes me go nuts!!!!

Personally, I would like to see all my favorite arcades and classics at the x-box, with a new 3D twist, better than the playstation. And one other thing, I am very impatient and i hate waiting, so I hope their processor is fast enough to skip the "loading" part of the game. Instead replace it with cinematics or whatever.

[MoMad]

Thats right, 155 of them--all lined up with xbox projects.

check this:
http://xbox.ign.com/news/25233.html

[MrShickadance]

Zero: What do ya mean it can't be WinCE? I'm sure it wouldn't take too much effort on Microsofts part to recompile CE for a CISC machine. Do you think all RISC CPU's are the same w/ the exact same opcodes? I hope not. I'm pretty sure that MS isn't going to use CE anyways... more like a striped version of ME.

As soon as XBox is released, someone will make a hack so XBox games can be run on PC's.... no need to buy an XBox. :)

Long Live SMS!! ;)

[Zero]

And knowing M$, it'll run something called WindowsX that won't be compatable with anything, but will be touted as the 'wave of the future' anyway.

~Zero the Inestimable

[HarryW]

Just remember to turn down the blue on your tv, don't want to wear out the phospors with all those blue screens.

X-Box is no-doubt, better than playstation. The graphix are, no-doubt, better than playstation. I don't think MS will say that it's shipping X-BOX with 700 MHZ and then release it with 300MHZ.. that's not the way MS is. MS aint stupid ok?

If they're going to invest in something... they make sure it's good.

I'm sorry but all you 'stupid' people who hate Microsoft for some UNKNOWN FREAKIN' reason, and yet still use their technologies.

YOU ARE NOT FREAKIN' FORCED TO DO SO. Go move on to linux or some **** like that. MS may be monoply, but their products are GOOD (I LOVE THEM), and their buisness people are smart ass people who know how to do Buisness to make money, not loose money. There are all these other loser companies, who're stupid and can't make money, and then they blame it on microsoft. It wouldn't matter if Microsoft was the 'ONLY' software/hardware company in the world. Because their products are of good quality.

They get all this bad courtesy from people WHO STILL ****ING USE THEIR PRODUCTS! I don't get it. The only way you can make them lose money is, to build your PC and install Linux in there. Or go buy a ****ing Mac (BALCH! throwup ****)....

THen you blame it on computer company who're providing windows with your computer or this or that. All that **** is crap. You can avoid MS if you want. But you don't, yet still talk crap about them.

It's just.... PLAIN STUPID!

jeez...

Stop using their products, that's how you can hurt the company. By saying stupid **** about Microsoft, only makes you look stupid, because, adults... they're not stupid, they think... Kids just look to blame everything.


THis post may not look like it belongs here. But I know that it's going to start into a MS vs Sony thing, and then it's going to go into people cussing out MS.. so I wanna put a stop to that beforehand by saying, MS IS NOT STUPID! They started out just like any other company. They didn't have A LOT OF MONEY. they made it, and worked hard for it. They've earned their position in the market.

If I made an operating system, would I ****ing support another operating system? or would I make sure that my OS sells, and all the games are for my OS and all of my products are for MY OS, so people go buy my OS. That's what MS is doing. But it's also supporting other OS's like MAC or Linux, by providing their software for them too, and believe it or not, people use their software, even if they don't have windows.

[HarryW]

Well thank you for that, I never realised MS was doing us all a favour with their monopoly. Where do I send the Christmas cards?

[kedaman]

I'm born in the land of linux, and i the attitude against MS is very strong here, i can hear MS jokes every day :p

I'm probably one of the few who don't really care, i use crappy ms products anyway. I haven't tried much on linux/unix but i guess i have to sooner or later, 50% of the pc's at school are Unix/linux and most education is on the unix side.

I don't think MS products have a too good quality, although i think MS has achieved a lot more than linux, especially when it comes to developing tools :)

[Rudy]

**** i clicked on clear fields instead of send :( anywayz

Since im quite late in this thread ill just comment a bit on what everyone said

Someone said the N64 had a small library but most of them were quality games.....hum....i can find only 5-10 on top of my head while i can find at least 30-50 for the PSX.

/\/\isanThr0p said that the PSX was not only developed by Sony but with Sega too well that's not right, that was with Nintendo, and Nintendo was not helping Sony to make it, they were just liscencing it and stuff like that, it was supposed to be a CD-ROM add-on for the SNES, but when the product was ready Nintendo decided not to release it (big mistake) so Sony made a stand alone version of the add-on and named it PSX and it became popular so.....it's all good heheh as for the PS2, that's the biggest mistake they did, i mean it's a pain in the ass to program for the PS2, there's 3 procesors (the Emotion one and 2 normal one) devlopers hated to program for the saturn because it had 2.......lol as for the X-Box it will be the easiest one because it will have DirectX and we all know it's quite easy to program for directX.

As for MrShickadance it's not gonna be a striped down version of Windows ME but a striped down version of Windows 2000 (that's official)...I mean why would they use ME??? it's the buggiest OS ever while 2000 is the best OS made by MS.....

[tonyenkiducx]

Thumbs up for windows 2000, and someone else stick there thumbs up for the new .net stuff, now that looks good.... And as for you unix people, when you develop a GUI based OS less buggy than Windows, THEN you can comment(Windowmaker? KDE? Phtt bite me)

[tonyenkiducx]

Ohh, and if you get lots of blue screens, thats because of two reasons...

1) You run other peoples software on windows, this is usally the problem, microsoft cant check other peoples software.

2) You dont know how to run windows. You have 6,000,000 things in your system tray and another million hardware control panels.

3)*Im feeling generous* Your not running 2000, even Microsoft admit 9X was flawed. 2000 is a beautiful OS, unrivelled for being a GUI based system, and runs nicely as a web server/domain server as well.

[noble]

It comes as a suprise to me that with the current state and
performance of PC's people still play console-based games.

Face it, console's will never be as good as a good computer
using almost new hardware. If price is the reason console
system's sway a person's preferrence to it over
computers, then think of it this way........how long will
the console be worth it's money? Splurge the extra money
for a computer with near top of the line features.
Nowadays, you can build a gaming computer for less than
a $1000 and be completely satisfied. And as far as games
go, forget about it! If you want proof that computer games
piss all over any console game in existence, compare the
Dreamcast's version of quake3 alongside of a computer
running quake3 with a geforce2 and tell me which is better!
I bought my computer 2 years ago and I'll tell ya I'd rather
be playing games on a p2-450 384mb ram, geforce2, 21" 1600res than anything microsoft, sony, nintendo can dream up
as a console system.

And the way that processor technology might be headed if it
ever overcomes it's physical boundaries problem, games will
be more realistic than anyone can ever imagine. Also, with
the release of the geforce a year ago, GPU's which don't
rely on the processor for any graphics pipelining will
free up the processor for much more involved games. Jamming
all this technology into a console will probably make the
cost approach that of a high-end gaming rig.

[noble]

WildGhost:

Here's the reason (whether people know it or not) why people
don't like Microsoft. And it's not your common "Cuz it
crashes and I can't do blah blah blah"

1)
Everything Microsoft is Bloatware. Remember when you had a
486 and the only thing running on your computer was MS-DOS 5 with MemMaker and MAYBE windows3.1? Well, a few years
later, the pentium came out and the change in performance
from a 486 to a 200mhz was absoultely ridiculous! DAMN! 200 MHZ is so fast, why would you need anything more? I'll
tell ya why. Intel has a deal with MS. As Intel makes
processors that are more and more unbelieavable, Microsoft
promises to make software that will eat almost all the
resources on a machine, urging the pc-user to want to go
out and buy more hardware. People don't realize this, but
it happens. You want proof? CLIPPY! The Office Mate or
whatever he goes by these days. That's a great example
of a tiny bit of processing time wasted on programs. And
it's more prevalent throughout a common system.

2)
It's totally possible to make security and other issues not
an issue anymore. What I mean by this is, some annoyances
that may or may not occur in a system could be fixed so
that they never occur again. I'm not saying that windows
can be made so that it's a flawless operating system. But
there are a few steps that Microsoft can take to fix
certain issues and other annoyances that occur in a system
so that they don't occur again. But why would they do that?
Why would they make a flawless system for you to fully
enjoy and never have to put another penny in to again?
I think that question answers itself.

The average person who uses any Microsoft product doesn't
hate them. They just don't know how to put into words the
feelings that they're having. These two reasons are not
the only reasons why people dislike microsoft, but they
are definitely the two most noticeable.

And why do people use it? Honestly, what else are they
gonna use? You're saying Linux right now. Linux is fine
for power users and the like but as a home computer running
linux it's just not feasible (at least not at this time).
To tell you the truth, I've tried to be anti-MS in the past
by going Linux and I didn't like it. I liked all the power
that I had over the machine and the customizing of it was
absolutely wonderful. But I found no support (expected) for
most of my hardware and definiltey not hte software.

To remedy this, I've decided to stay MS by running win2k and use litestep to
fool myself into thinking i'm using something else. It
works, it's stable and it looks good :)

[Rudy]

Why use a console when you could use a PC??? Well there's a lot of reasons, i mean most console games are way better, i mean try to find something that will beat Grandia 2 on the PC?? Hard eh?? lol try to find a game as good as FF4 on the pc?? yeah sure you can emulate it since it's a SNES game but still you wont find a game in that style as good on the PC ^_*

[/\/\isanThr0p]

Hey you guys! Do you really all think console games are better than PC games? I think that's wrong. I think for sport games and quite a lot action games that's true, but what's uo with strategy? Warhammer is probably the best Strategy game made for consoles! It is better on the PC. And what about games like Commandos? I have never played anything as cool on a console!

To the Microsoft thing. I hear so many ppl complaining, just because they don't know how to use a PC. Sure their OS is not the best, but probably the best to use for 'normal' users.
And the Developer tools are comfortable, and most part of their Office package is also great!

[HarryW]

There are dreat games on both platforms. Some genres are more suited to a certain platform. Take flight sims for example - the decent ones require a huge amount of shortcut keys to play them properly, and consoles just don't have that many inputs. Perhaps if they made a decent keyboard and joystick it would be okay, but as far as I know they don't.

The same goes for beat-em-ups. I doubt Tekken would be as good on the PC because the controls are not up to scratch.

[Rudy]

Hum.....well there's a lot of games i don't see very well on PC and a lot on Console too, i mean just look at RPG Maker for PSX and PC, the PC one is way better i mean you can type with the keyboard ^_* and you can use nay image and you don't have a storage problem. Most fighting games on the other hand sux for PC.....but im still wondering why they don't make RPG like FF on the PC (yes i know they made FF7-8 on the PC but those are the 2 worst FF ever.....)

[Ramandeep]

Microsoft may be able to write reasonable applications and OS but when it comes to games and consoles they are just simply ****. That small sample clip they show and claim it's the actual games graphics well I think that’s bull **** because the women doesn't seem to be moving fast enough and blatantly looks as if it's been animated & rendered.

Another thing Sony has I would say half if not more of the games industry now then any one else and not forgetting the experience. They also play a huge role in the film and music industry, which I think gives them an extra edge over other companies.

They already have millions of people in their hand I mean people are actually booking a plastion because off it's demand. I don't remember any other company having so many customers that they had to introduce a pre-booking system.

Who knows by the time Microsoft brings their new XBox out Sony may already have a new console to kick XBoxes ass.

Do we really want to play or use Microsoft’s hardware and game, don't get me wrong I mean they write decent software but could you imagine you are just about to beat the boss on the last level and up pops a message saying:

This console has performed an illegal operation and will be terminated...or something!

[ptcruiser]

In my opinion, the PlayStation2 is not worth the money unless if you do not have a DVD player. The limited supply will last until who knows? The games for it seem like tweaked versions of the regular PSX games, the concepts are similar. Hopefully the X-Box will introduce some new games with a larger variety of concepts.

The bottom line- don't own a PSX or DVD player, go for the PSX2. But, if you have experienced the PSX and the games they have, then why not wait for the X-Box-it seems well worth the wait.


If you are just surfing around - maybe you can help me with a few things, I have posted 2 threads in the game section, please VISIT ME and see if you could help me out of 2 situations. THANK YOU

[Edited by ptcruiser on 12-08-2000 at 08:34 PM]

[HarryW]

I'll still be buying one, just for Tekken Tag Tournament. I probably won't even have time to play it though :rolleyes: