Employers want more and more

**Memnoch1207** · Jun 16th, 2003, 10:18 AM

Just saw this job listing on careerbuilder.com...Not only do they want someone with Network Administration experience, but also someone who can program in Java...Jeez, they're just wanting more and more skills these days, and not necessarily in the same area...I don't know any Network Admins that can program, nor do I know any Programmers that could be Network Admins...I think this is just getting out of hand...Next they'll be wanting...A programmer/dba/network admin/lawyer/doctor/accountant who doesn't mind getting coffee occasionally!

Description

This position is primarily responsible for design, management, security, and integrity of the company information systems network. SOME SOFTWARE PROGRAMMING duties are also required. Duties include management and configuration of company switches, DNS, DHCP, monitoring servers, Exchange, SQL and user support in a Microsoft NT 4.0 environment. This person will also do JAVA programming and related OO SWD

Requirements

This position requires 2 years of Network Administration experience AND some type of OO programming experience. Programming in JAVA is a plus. Candidates MUST POSSESS BOTH NETWORK ADMINISTRATION AND SOFTWARE PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE.

**Arkhos** · Jun 16th, 2003, 02:01 PM

AND you'll only get paid $30,000 a year! Crap.

**fungi** · Jun 16th, 2003, 02:46 PM

I'd expect any windows admin to be handy with vbscript but bloody Java... Cripes that's a career in itself...

We need to unionize dammit...

The geek shall inherit the earth

**evexa** · Jun 20th, 2003, 03:37 AM

Ive done Netword Admin and Programming at the same time.
But not effing java! Most I ever did was abit of VB for my job.
And yes you need much more $$ for that.

**powdir** · Jun 21st, 2003, 01:34 PM

this is just typical of what i see more and more of. Browsing through the job sites the other day i came across this vacancy for a JUNIOR programmer

...HTML, OOP, and SQL, and have solid skills in the following packages: Java, VB and C#. Excellent Microsoft Excel/VBA abilities also a requirement

now the real sting is the salary. 12k (UK sterling)!!!. I mean JEEEZ a decent paper round would get you more. Funs over guys time to move on i think!

**evexa** · Jun 21st, 2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by powdir
this is just typical of what i see more and more of. Browsing through the job sites the other day i came across this vacancy for a JUNIOR programmer

now the real sting is the salary. 12k (UK sterling)!!!. I mean JEEEZ a decent paper round would get you more. Funs over guys time to move on i think!

I think im going to stick to stripping!!!

**mendhak** · Jun 21st, 2003, 01:40 PM

Move on to what? We're stuck in this field.

**powdir** · Jun 21st, 2003, 01:45 PM

Move on to what? We're stuck in this field

bareknuckle boxing
underwater welder
dancer
barman
pyramid sales
plumber
tinker
tailor
soldier
spy

...i would wager they all pay more than 12k

**mendhak** · Jun 21st, 2003, 03:50 PM

bareknuckle boxing

I'm too weak, I can't even fight a girl.

underwater welder

Can't hold my breath for more than 20 seconds (Smoker I am)

dancer

Body too clumsy and awkward for dancing. Besides, I'm a computer geek... I'm not socially fit.

barman

Can't drink without dropping the glass, forget about making one.

pyramid sales

I don't lvie in Egypt

plumber

Butt isn't large enough for the sacrosanct plumber's butt crack.

tinker

I'm not that sexually frustrated.

tailor

My clothing sense makes me a source of inspiration for beggars. Need I say more?

soldier

Requires physical fitness, and besides, soldiers (the army) are the outcome of corruption in a country's government.

spy

BWAHAHHA

So as you can see, this all leads to the proof of my point, which I have forgotten at this point.

**siyan** · Jun 22nd, 2003, 07:38 PM

Go into management. Hahahahahaha....

**Maven** · Jun 22nd, 2003, 07:44 PM

I have an under the desk management position open, has great dental.

**lengwai** · Jun 24th, 2003, 10:15 PM

Seriously i thought of moving to another field, but I will keep programming as my hobby definately.

Even though i would consider that it is the best to start off with in my country, however I think if i were to get into any sales job i may get much more even though basic could be a few hundred lesser.

Sitting on this damn chair where I am now sitting now makes everyday a damn day. Regardless of how hard i work, it will be still what i'll be getting at the end of every month.

Further more, employers now are getting so insensible.

This position requires 2 years of Network Administration experience AND some type of OO programming experience. Programming in JAVA is a plus. Candidates MUST POSSESS BOTH NETWORK ADMINISTRATION AND SOFTWARE PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE.

If i have 2 years experience in Network Admin (a good one)
and another 1 year experience in programming.

I may consider if the calculation go something like :-

Network Admin - 4000K
Programmer - 2800K/2 (one year experience & secondary task)

4000k + 1400 = 5400K per month

64800 a year. (my country market rate)

But coming back to reality its impossible. Because there are just too many people getting out of job and at the same time too many graduates coming out, I am one of lucky ones.

So screw them. I am definitely moving out.

**Arc** · Jun 24th, 2003, 10:34 PM

If you want to know the reason for this, view this thread.

http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...hreadid=248421

Not only do they want more skills but they are paying less and less.

**lengwai** · Jun 26th, 2003, 12:53 AM

wow .. its certainly takes hell lots of patient to follow through the whole thread.

Took me half a day to finish it. Thats crazy.

However i think its too difficult to justify this like this. very subjective. I certainly understanding how you feel, but on the other hand to be realistic, there is nothing we can do about it but to live with it.

Let not just talk about USA, even in my country Bachelor Degree Graduate may settle for 1.4K a month, thats not even reaching 20K a year. That consider lucky enough enuf not to be jobless.

Ofcourse there are exceptions, like freshies getting 1.8k (per month) for first job. From my class of 100 students (complete degree), less than 10% works in related fields. Rest of them its either into marketing, admin staff or promoters in complexes.

I can imagine if someone else will to come in and fight for those position and most of all if their cheaper, more will suffer locally. I am working in a singapore based company. Most of the senior engineers are from india. They are not cheap either, most highly paid of all. But i respect them so much as they are really good and almost multi-purpose.

If the government were to fix a minimal earning (which in your mind) for a programmer that will definitely hit the IT industry so badly, that it will surely take even a long time to make a come back especially when times are so bad already.

For those who still have a job, good for you. But think again, India and China are so populated that, they will have so many genius that they can just over shadow any particular local market. Because what they ask for is a decent life which i think they greatly deserve, it is understandable they would settle for something where you guys find it difficult to accept. You can't do anything about it.

As I totally agree with your concern and also others in the thread, i think its best for you to get a copy of ROBERT Kiyosaki, "Rich Dad Poor Dad" to help out.

Therefore i am certainly moving out.

take care man,
leng wai

**CyberSurfer** · Jun 27th, 2003, 06:52 AM

Well, my CS degree is teaching me Java Programming and Network Administration, and I start a placement year administering networks et al soon. It isn't all that much to ask for skillwise, although I agree the money should be a bit better for Java experience AND network admin experience...

**powdir** · Jun 27th, 2003, 07:14 AM

at the risk of sounding a little condescending - which is NOT my intention - i learned quick that university skills tend not to be workplace skills in the eyes of the employer.

If i sold myself on every subject i have ever studied academically i would have a 10 page CV full of bleedin' edge buzzwords - BUT i would fall flat on my arse if i was expected to execute these skills in a commercial environment.

Oh, yes and another thing - i have been moved teams in my workplace. I am now headed towards AR Systems (Remedy) developer. My love/hate affair with VB seems to be OVER (at least for the time being!).

I am led to believe that AR exposes a JAVA api <*hushed whispers and gasps*> so it looks like a defection might be in the pipeline (i've messed with Java a little).

Anyone got experience/horror stories of AR Systems.??

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