Resumes and Certifications

[The Hobo]

If I put on my resume that I'm HTML, JavaScript, and PHP (although I haven't gotten PHP yet) certified, how do they then confirm that? They obviously have to, unless they take you at face value.

Do they ask for verification numbers and the company I got it from, and then check it out?

Also, how credible are online certifications? Will I be laughed at if I say "I got certified through BrainBench" rather than a traditional testing facility?

[Memnoch1207]

Generally, online certifications are thought of as just showing compentency...And no, I wouldn't say they are really regarded as being anything other than that either, but that said...it can't hurt to have them on your resume, especially if you are just getting started in the industry...a vendor recognized and supported cert is always the best way to go as far as certs are concerned, but to start with online certs are a great way to test your skill level.

My first employer (I had 14 certs from Ecertifications.com, brainbuzz.com and brainbench.com) just asked me to bring copies of the certifications with me to the interview. I ended up getting the job, only because I had more (10) certifications than the other applicant vying for the job.

Order of Importance

The first 2 can be interchangeable depending on the companies needs.

1. Education
2. Experience
3. Certifications (depending on the cert)...MSCE (who cares...there's a billion of them out there) MCDBA (more respected) OCP (yep)...the rarer (the less people having it) the more valuable it can be.

[big_k105]

Sorry for butting in but what are the most rare certs that are out there?

[Arkhos]

I would think MCAD and MCSD are up there, since they have only recently released the exams... actually I'm not even sure if all of the exams are even out yet...:(

[Memnoch1207]

You'll generally find that the most popular certifications are for Hardware, Networking, or Administration (ie, MCSE, MCSA, A+, CCNA, CCNE, CNA, etc...)

The rarer ones would be like Arkhos said, programming and database related certifications...why? because they are a hell of alot harder and they cover a huge base of knowledge....MSCD, MCSD.NET, MCAD, MCDBA, ORACLE Database Certifications, Sun Java Certifications.

Here (http://www.informit.com/isapi/guide~certification/topics/index.asp) is a good link for certs.

[Memnoch1207]

This might interest some of you.

10 Hottest Certifications for 2003

#10 (Tie): Citrix Certified Enterprise Administrator (CCEA), Microsoft Certified Database Administrator (MCDBA)

#9: Sun Certified System Administrator for Solaris Operating Environment

#8: Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator (MCSA)

#7: Linux+

#6: Check Point Certified Security Administrator (CCSA)

#5: Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP)

#4: Cisco Certified Network Professional (CCNP)

#3: Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)

#2: Security+

#1: Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert (CCIE)

The runners up were
Oracle Certified Database Administrator (OCP DBA)
Microsoft Certified Application Developer (MCAD)
Linux Professional Institute, Level I
Sun Certified Web Component Developer
SANS GIAC

[Arkhos]

That's awesome stuff Memnoch! Nice to know, where did you find this info? Amazing MCSE isn't on it... ;)

[big_k105]

i think i will stick with the college degree certs seem to be alot of work because you have to keep taking tests to keep it.:(

[Memnoch1207]

That's pretty much the main issue with getting certified...The vendor (M$, Oracle, etc...) can just retire the cert at anytime...and unless you pay the money to recertify...the money you spent getting certified in the first place is just wasted!

Especially when you look at the prices...

Most M$ certs (MCSD, MCDBA) require 4-5 tests @ $125 each...not to mention other study material, so your looking at $500 minimum just to get certified...then if the cert gets retired you have to do it all over again.

And we all know that every certification will be retired...that's just how technology works...

[crpietschmann]

As long as you keep current in technology, by passing new certs, then you wont have to worry about losing you certification. They stay current for up to 5 years or something like that anyway.

Besides, if you got a degree in computer science 5 years ago, pretty much all that you've learned is now obsolete.

Both of them are pretty much the same. In the IT industry, if you don't stay current with new technologies, it doesn't really matter if you have a 5 year old degree or a 5 year old certification.

I am not saying that a degree isn't a valuble thing to have. I'm just saying that Certs are an excellent way to prove your proficiency with newer technologies.

If you keep updating you Certs, then you keep giving the company you work for a reason to keep you, and maybe pay you more money.

[plenderj]

I think a cert is nearly worthless. The amount of staff we've taken on over the years that are MCPs or MCSEs or MCSDs... and they really didn't have a clue.
You can just learn the stuff from braindumps and sit the exam then without knowing the stuff.

A college degree on the other hand - thats 3 or 4 years of proper experience that you'll have under your belt.
If you have a BSc. in Computer Science - you know your stuff.

[Arkhos]

Originally posted by plenderj

A college degree on the other hand - thats 3 or 4 years of proper experience that you'll have under your belt.
If you have a BSc. in Computer Science - you know your stuff.

Well that's a load of crap. College graduates are only taught enough to get them an entry level/intern position. A graduate doesn't even have the knowledge to pass a certification exam without studying the same books that non-graduates have to study. I work with graduates that have Bachelors in Computer Science. I've helped them with their homework. You only get beginner and intermediate courses in programming. The stuff on the MCAD/MCSD certification exams are not taught in college.

[fungi]

Having an MCSD basically says someone is book smart and can pass a few tests. But having a Comp Sci degree says more than that. Sure you may not be as good at VB as the vb-ninja guy who just aced the MCSD, but you've still proven that you could likely succeed at programming to the shop standards in a team environment.

You've also shown that you can meet deadlines and work with other people to some degree. You can also take direction from faculty who may be idiots and complete boring and worthless tasks.

You've also been exposed to a ton of cool theoretical stuff that may just give you a broader perspective later. Heck back in college we were writing assemblers, compilers and even a simple OS. Not likely that I'll ever make a career out of doing that specifically but I know it still affects how I go about solving problems.

[crpietschmann]

When you study for a certification, you are studying on your own time. You are the only one that tells you that you need to get the stuff done, and pass the exams.

When you are in college, you have all kinds of people telling you that you need to get the stuff done. You have your parents, and you professors telling you what to do all the time.

I think that there is more creditibility when someone takes the initiative themselves to get something done, than when they only get something done because there's a couple of people nagging at them to get it done.

Which would you prefer?
A) Assign someone a task, and have to talk to them about it daily in order for it to be done on time.
B) Assign someone a task, and not have to think about it, much less talk to them about it untill the due date.

I know that I would definitely prefer answer B. I don't want to have to push someone to get something done. I just want to tell someone to do something and have them tell me when it's done. That way, it gives me more time to spend on other more important things.

[crpietschmann]

There are things that you learn in the process of studying for an exam, that you wont even hear of it's existance in a college course. I know this for a fact. I took two Visual Basic 6 courses in college. Those were the only two VB course they offered, and they barely covered the tip of the ice berg.

For example they didn't teach anything about:
COM
Package and Deployment
Using Internet Explorer within you application
Using Microsoft Transaction Server (MTS)
Multi-tier application design

And others of which I can't think of at the moment...


I've worked with many people that have two and four year degrees, and with my Certifications and other things that I've taught myself, I know way more than they do.

For Example: I worked with this one guy, who has a four year degree in computer science, and he didn't know anything about C++, VB, or even how to put a computer together. I was suprised that he know how to install windows.

[Memnoch1207]

The difference though between what your talking about is that a certification demonstrates extensive knowledge regarding one area. A degree demonstrates a solid foundation for a wide range of areas. Accounting (if those classes are taken), math, english, etc...

I know an MCSD that couldn't create a VB application that required an input cost, an amount paid then calculated the change and broke the change down into how many dollars, quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies were returned....because he couldn't understand the math aspect of calculating how many dollars, quarters, etc...should be returned.

[crpietschmann]

Now that's harsh, that example was a little simple. You'd have to be stupid not to be able to do that.

I know what you're saying, but how often do you have to do equations that involve calculus. Most often it's just plain Algebra, Geometry, or Trigonometry. Those are all classes we take in high school. That and the client will always tell you what the equation is that they use to calculate something.

Anyway, I'm not downgrading a college degree. There is a level of creditibility to having a degree. All I'm saying is that there is also a level of creditibility to having a certification.

[plenderj]

Hang on hang on, I'm not saying that certs are a waste of time, or degrees are the be-all and end-all of qualifications.

If you pass an MCSD - you have proven that you know enough to code how Microsoft likes to code, or that you have a good memory.

If you have a degree - you have proven that you have enough discipline and intelligence to get that qualification.


There is a huge amount that you will study in a computer science degree that someone learning programming in their own time would not learn or ever come across.

If you had a degree, and an mcsd or mcp qualification, then I would say that is a definite indication that you know your stuff.

[crpietschmann]

I've known people that have cramed for an exam in college the night before, because instead of studying they were partying. They pass the exam, and pass the class, but they don't remember any of it a year or two later, when they graduate, and get out into the real world. They, might as well have never even taken that class.

Maybe I've only met the stupid ones, but I know more than most of the people I've met that have two or four year degrees in computer science.

[frigginjerk]

I recently was told in an interview that I would probably not get a job because of my lack of a college degree, and that I was only being interviewed because I had some real experience and I was willing to work at a really cheap price.

Needless to say that I did not get the job.

[abhijit]

I never got around to getting certified. In any case, in my country each company has its own entry level requirement and you have to pass the test that it has designed.

So I guess these tests are more general in nature and depend on the company's requirement at the time.

Cheers!
Abhijit