No longer Iraq Dinars!

[KayJay]

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/stories/2003041708170100.htm

So Iraq for the Iraqis, eh?

[MerrionComputin]

It's pretty difficult to maintain a currency when widespread looting has destroiyed any confidence in it's value.


Totally unrelated image...
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2003/04/17/2bell.jpg

[plenderj]

The US is trying to vie support for the dollar in the region because OPEC want the euro.

[kleinma]

hmmm now why would the Iraqi people possibly not use the same bills anymore???
http://www.vbforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=1414767
I just can't figure it out?? can you help me??

KayJay your getting as bad as Honeybee

that article clearly shows a positive thing we are doing.. and you try to turn it around with
So Iraq for the Iraqis, eh?

[FantastichenEin]

Originally posted by plenderj
The US is trying to vie support for the dollar in the region because OPEC want the euro.

Quite right too, I would say.

[Xanith]

*yawn*

X

[KayJay]

Originally posted by kleinma
KayJay your getting as bad as Honeybee

Ouch! That hurts :D

No, I did not mean so! My apologies for not being articulate enough! :o

What I meant was, if the US of A really wanted an Iraqi reconstruction, it would so what it did with Germany after WW2. Same looting and same devaluation then, but a more responsible handling of the economy, no import of currency.

The act of importing currently valuable money into Iraq for trade in Iraqi goods and services will boost the imported currency. Iraqi economy is so bust up that printing IOUs on A4 paper cut into three will suffice.

Jamie said it. It will boost the economy of the US of A and I am not denying the fact that it may help the Iraqi economy. So, I will rephrase my comments (without editing my original post. I stand corrected there)

So Iraq for the Iraqis only, eh?

[MerrionComputin]

*yawn*


Combat fatigue?

[OrdinaryGuy]

KayJay, stop acting like a *****. You know that this a temporary measure and you know all the reasons why it has been introduced. You just try to use any point you like to bash the US

[plenderj]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
KayJay, stop acting like a *****. You know that this a temporary measure and you know all the reasons why it has been introduced. You just try to use any point you like to bash the US

Temporary Measure?
That'll do wonders for their economy. Shifting between three different currencies in a short space of time.

Why has the dollar been introduced ?
I still don't know.


This could in theory cause huge amounts of inflation in the country with such a huge influx of a higher valued currency.

[kleinma]

Originally posted by plenderj
Temporary Measure?
That'll do wonders for their economy. Shifting between three different currencies in a short space of time.

Why has the dollar been introduced ?
I still don't know.


This could in theory cause huge amounts of inflation in the country with such a huge influx of a higher valued currency.

we are just brining in the dollar for when we colonize :rolleyes:

[OrdinaryGuy]

Originally posted by plenderj
Temporary Measure?
That'll do wonders for their economy. Shifting between three different currencies in a short space of time.

Why has the dollar been introduced ?
I still don't know.


This could in theory cause huge amounts of inflation in the country with such a huge influx of a higher valued currency.

"As an initial step, U.S. officials charged with the reconstruction of Iraq would use small-denomination notes to make "emergency" payments to the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civil servants in an effort to quiet civic unrest and to stabilise the economy."

That pretty much explains it. The US dollar is not replacing the Iraqi dinar. It would be reintroduced when the new government is setup. And why? Because the dinar currently has no value due to the looting.

[plenderj]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
And why? Because the dinar currently has no value due to the looting.

Ah yes just like the Deutschemark had no value after Kristallnacht achte :rolleyes:

[kleinma]

well u guys can keep b!tching and moaning about it.. but guess what...

the money is on its way... and you're not going to stop it ;)

[OrdinaryGuy]

Originally posted by plenderj
Ah yes just like the Deutschemark had no value after Kristallnacht achte :rolleyes:

Why are u so stubborn on your views? It would be difficult to prove to you that america has done anything good for the world. In seems that you are on an all out hate mission against the US. And You still haven't explain your comments on the sept 11th thread.

[plenderj]

What comments ? :confused:

[OrdinaryGuy]

Originally posted by plenderj
What comments ? :confused:

where you tried justifying the sept 11 attacks saying that america deserved it :rolleyes:

[FantastichenEin]

http://www.theonion.com/onion3914/saddam_proud.html

[Memnoch1207]

My understanding in the long run was the iraqi dinar was going to be replaced by the swiss dinar...since that was the iraqi currency prior to saddam and his regime taking over.

I would also like to hear how the US deserved the 9/11 attacks.

Why because some lamebrain militant got pissed, thinking the US was soiling Islamic holyland? give me a break...That Islamic holylands government (Saudi Arabia) asked the US to come in and set up shop, to defend them against a possible attack from saddam. And bin laden gets pissed off at us? Funny thing is I haven't heard of any terroristic attacks by al-queida against saudi arabia.

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by KayJay
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/stories/2003041708170100.htm

So Iraq for the Iraqis, eh?

Whadda bunch of arseholes the US are. I mean sending Iraq money to stabilize theire economy and give them emergency relief. Jeesesh maby someone should fly some more planes into NYC skyscrapers of something to punish us.


Temporary Measure?
That'll do wonders for their economy. Shifting between three different currencies in a short space of time.

Why has the dollar been introduced ?
I still don't know.

This could in theory cause huge amounts of inflation in the country with such a huge influx of a higher valued currency.

I hardly think inflation is on the minds of any one in Iraq. It kinda looses importance in the absence of food and water. It won't affect their economy at all Jamie. There is no economy there right now. There isn't even a government there yet.

[kleinma]

Originally posted by Memnoch1207
My understanding in the long run was the iraqi dinar was going to be replaced by the swiss dinar...since that was the iraqi currency prior to saddam and his regime taking over.

I would also like to hear how the US deserved the 9/11 attacks.

Why because some lamebrain militant got pissed, thinking the US was soiling Islamic holyland? give me a break...That Islamic holylands government (Saudi Arabia) asked the US to come in and set up shop, to defend them against a possible attack from saddam. And bin laden gets pissed off at us? Funny thing is I haven't heard of any terroristic attacks by al-queida against saudi arabia.
the 1 and ONLY good thing about 9/11 is that it resulted in us capturing a whole bunch of those terrorist sons of b!tches fuks

[KayJay]

For those who say I twist information in every which way to paint the US of A in a bad light, I'll just respond by saying I don't have to.

Setting aside the Moral and Legal, whatever "Law" that may exist in International Affairs and focussing on just the civil and financial acts:

1) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2957875.stm . USAID awarding contracts.

2) Currently circulating currency of another Nation being intoduced in place of Iraqi currency

3) Setting up of Advisory Committes whose members and experience (I may be wrong here) are predominantly and primarily of the US of A

4) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2958009.stm .

According to the Associated Press, Mr Lanier - director of a New York foundation - attacked "the administration's total lack of sensitivity and forethought regarding the Iraq invasion and loss of cultural treasures".


It didn't have to happen", Martin Sullivan - who chaired the President's Advisory Committee on Cultural Property for eight years - told Reuters news agency.

"In a pre-emptive war that's the kind of thing you should have planned for," he said.


5) Restore what? The oldest copy of the Quran? How?

Secretary of State Colin Powell said the Baghdad museum was "one of the great museums in the world" and that the US would take a leading role in restoring it.


6) More importantly
Where is IRAQ in all this? No Interim Government is set yet. No Iraqi heading any Advisory Commitee. No Iraqi holding any veto power for decisions affecting his/her Nation in any and all of the decision making bodies formed or mooted to be formed, thus far

So, how would it be "Iraq for the Iragis, by the Iraqis, of the Iraqis"? :confused:

[OrdinaryGuy]

1) If the US spent billions of dollars in this war, the US deserves to get the reconstruction contracts

2) The dollar is not being introduced in place of the Iraqi currency. I have already answered this part by quoting the very same report you used to try to prove your point.

3) The US WILL eventually transfer all power to the Iraqis and it would become a true democracy. If that is hard for you to believe, then just sit back and watch before commenting prematurely

4) If a bunch of old artifacts got stolen, the US has already promised it would do its level best to try and recover them. But what matters more to a common Iraqi? Freedom? And that's what they are going to get from this war.

[KayJay]

1) Billions of Dollar on the war? Why? Just spend it on Social Security, and if Society is less important than Security, only Security. Oops! :eek: Internal Security!

An American Agency, USAID, is paying American Companies, run by Americans, based in America, employing Americans, in American Currency to build roads and bridges and power plants in Iraq. Now why is it so? No more work for those companies in America? And U complain of spending American Money in Iraq? C'mon!

2) Only time will tell whether its going there is going to be an Iraqi Dinar or an Iraqi Dollar. I'll go easy on that subject for now ;)

3) Eventually? Thought U hated that word! At least U did so as far as UNMOVIC was concerned. 6 months is not "Eventually" enough, but 2 years is?

4) Freedom to do what? Buy a McDonalds Happy Meal with Freedom Fries and a Large Coke? Freedom to work in GE and GM factories in Najaf? Freedom to sell Oil to the US of A but not to Syria? Freedom to watch Discovery and History Channels showing the Rise and Fall of Arab Nationalism?

[honeybee]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
1) If the US spent billions of dollars in this war, the US deserves to get the reconstruction contracts

2) The dollar is not being introduced in place of the Iraqi currency. I have already answered this part by quoting the very same report you used to try to prove your point.

3) The US WILL eventually transfer all power to the Iraqis and it would become a true democracy. If that is hard for you to believe, then just sit back and watch before commenting prematurely

4) If a bunch of old artifacts got stolen, the US has already promised it would do its level best to try and recover them. But what matters more to a common Iraqi? Freedom? And that's what they are going to get from this war.

So, essentially it's not a freedom struggle for the US, it's plain business :) That is very frank and honest on your part :D

If the Dicks and the Bushes of the US of A are so itchy, perhaps they should try the act between themselves :rolleyes:

A bunch of old artefacts? I think those artefacts were much more valuable than a couple of huge concrete, steel and glass skeletons.

KayJay, all that talk you are giving requires knowledge and study of Economics, plus an understanding of international law and also history for them to understand. Don't you think that's a tad too much? ;) After all they don't get college education for everyone there. Probably because their government doesn't have money: half is spent on war and the other half on rebuilding :rolleyes:

.

[OrdinaryGuy]

KayJay, its time you realized that you have not made a single valid argument.

Originally posted by KayJay

1) Billions of Dollar on the war? Why? Just spend it on Social Security, and if Society is less important than Security, only Security. Oops! :eek: Internal Security!

An American Agency, USAID, is paying American Companies, run by Americans, based in America, employing Americans, in American Currency to build roads and bridges and power plants in Iraq. Now why is it so? No more work for those companies in America? And U complain of spending American Money in Iraq? C'mon!



Your point? What makes an american company different from any other company in the world?? And quote me where I was complaining aboyt the cost?

Originally posted by KayJay

3) Eventually? Thought U hated that word! At least U did so as far as UNMOVIC was concerned. 6 months is not "Eventually" enough, but 2 years is?


Nothing happens instantly. Everything takes time. The government has already outlined that it wouldn't stay there longer than needed. I can't comment on how long it will take. That's why I used "eventually". Let's watch and see. Talks and negotiations are already underway for a new government. Give it some time and then criticize. Don't jump to a conclusion even before this war is fully over


Originally posted by KayJay

4) Freedom to do what? Buy a McDonalds Happy Meal with Freedom Fries and a Large Coke? Freedom to work in GE and GM factories in Najaf?


You know, you have a very screwed up sort of thinking. You probably visit McDonalds or Pizza Hut yourself in India but wouldn't want to see such companies setup in Iraq. They create jobs and benefit the economy. All these things help improve the standard of living of the country. And who said Iraqi companies won't be there too supplying their own fast food?


Originally posted by KayJay

Freedom to sell Oil to the US of A but not to Syria? Freedom to watch Discovery and History Channels showing the Rise and Fall of Arab Nationalism?



To who the new Iraq would sell oil to would be up to a democratic government. And you are just jumping to unfounded conclusions even before this war has fully ended.

[OrdinaryGuy]

Originally posted by honeybee
So, essentially it's not a freedom struggle for the US, it's plain business :) That is very frank and honest on your part :D

If the Dicks and the Bushes of the US of A are so itchy, perhaps they should try the act between themselves :rolleyes:

A bunch of old artefacts? I think those artefacts were much more valuable than a couple of huge concrete, steel and glass skeletons.
.

NO. Why should the US pay a foreign company to do reconstruction work when it has its own companies???

Well, I thing huge concrete, steel and glass skeletons are worth more to the common man

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by KayJay
An American Agency, USAID, is paying American Companies, run by Americans, based in America, employing Americans, in American Currency to build roads and bridges and power plants in Iraq. Now why is it so? No more work for those companies in America? And U complain of spending American Money in Iraq? C'mon!

This is why Coalition companies will be getting the rebuilding contracts. :mad:

Army Pfc. John E. Brown , 21, of Troy, Ala. Killed in Iraq when a grenade exploded inside his military vehicle. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 44th Air Defense Artillery Regiment, Fort Campbell, Ky.

Army Spc. Thomas A. Foley III, 23, of Dresden, Tenn. Killed in Iraq when a grenade exploded inside his military vehicle. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 44th Air Defense Artillery Regiment, Fort Campbell, Ky.

Marine Cpl. Armando Ariel Gonzalez, 25, of Hileah, Fla. Killed in a non-hostile accident when a commercial refueler collapsed at Logistics Supply Area Viper in southern Iraq. Assigned to Marine Wing Support Squadron (MWSS)-273, Marine Wing Support Group (MWSG)-27, 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, S.C.

Army Spc. Richard A. Goward, 32, of Midland, Mich. Killed when his truck entered a dust cloud and rear-ended the truck in front of him in Iraq. Assigned to the 1460th Transportation Company, Midland, Mich.

Army Pfc. Joseph P. Mayek, 20, of Rock Springs, Wyo. Killed by an AP round that was discharged from an M2 Bradley vehicle. Assigned to C Company, 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, Smith Barracks, Germany.

Marine Cpl. Jason David Mileo, 20, of Centreville, Md. Killed by gunfire after being mistaken for an enemy soldier in the vicinity of Baghdad. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Twentynine Palms, Calif.

April 13:

Army Spc. Gil Mercado , 25, of Paterson, N.J. Killed in a non-combat weapon discharge. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 187th Infantry Regiment, Fort Campbell, Ky.

April 12 :

Marine Cpl. Jesus A. Gonzalez, 22, of Indio, Calif. Killed while manning a checkpoint in Baghdad. Assigned to the 1st Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Twenty-Nine Palms, Calif.

April 11:

Marine Staff Sgt. Riayan A. Tejeda, 26, of New York, N.Y. Killed during combat operations against enemy forces in northeast Baghdad. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

April 10:

Marine Gunnery Sgt. Jeffrey E. Bohr, Jr., 39, of San Clemente, Calif. Killed in northern Baghdad while engaging enemy forces. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Army Staff Sgt. Terry W. Hemingway, 39, of Willingboro, N.J. Killed when a car exploded next to his Bradley Fighting Vehicle. Assigned to C Company, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry Regiment, Ft. Benning, Ga.

April 8:

Army Cpl. Henry L. Brown, 22, of Natchez, Miss. Died of wounds received from an enemy rocket attack south of Baghdad. Assigned to Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion, 64th Field Artillery Regiment, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Marine Pfc. Juan Guadalupe Garza, Jr., 20, of Temperance, Mich. Killed in combat. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Army Sgt. 1st Class John W. Marshall, 50, of Los Angeles. Killed by an enemy rocket propelled grenade during an ambush in Baghdad. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division, Ft. Stewart, Ga.

Army Pfc. Jason M. Meyer, 23, of Swartz Creek, Mich. Killed in action in Iraq. Assigned to B Company, 11th Engineer Battalion, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Air Force Staff Sgt. Scott D. Sather, 29, of Clio, Mich. Killed in action in Iraq. Assigned to the 24th Special Tactics Squadron, Pope Air Force Base, N.C.

Army Staff Sgt. Robert A. Stever , 36, of Pendleton, Ore. Killed in action by enemy fire in Iraq. Assigned to Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division, Ft. Stewart, Ga.

April 7:

Marine Lance Cpl. Andrew Julian Aviles, 18, of Palm Beach, Fla. Killed in central Iraq when an enemy artillery round struck the Amphibious Assault Vehicle in which he was riding. Assigned to the 4th Assault Amphibian Battalion, 4th Marine Division, Tampa, Fla.

Army Staff Sgt. Lincoln Hollinsaid, 27, of Malden, Ill. Killed in a grenade attack. Assigned to B Company, 11th Engineer Battalion, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Army 2nd Lt. Jeffrey J. Kaylor, 24, of Clifton, Va. Killed in action in Iraq. Assigned to C Battery, 39th Field Artillery Battalion, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Marine Cpl. Jesus Martin Antonio Medellin, 21, of Fort Worth, Texas. Killed in central Iraq when an enemy artillery round struck the Amphibious Assault Vehicle in which he was riding. Assigned to the 3rd Assault Amphibian Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Army Pfc. Anthony S. Miller, 19, of San Antonio. Killed by enemy indirect fire in Iraq. Assigned to Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 3rd Infantry Division, 2nd Brigade, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Army Spc. George A. Mitchell, 35, of Rawlings, Md. Died of wounds received from an enemy rocket attack south of Baghdad. Assigned to Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 3rd Infantry Division, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, Fort Stewart, Ga.

April 6:

Army Pfc. Gregory P. Huxley Jr., 19, of Forestport, N.Y. Killed in combat. Assigned to B Company, 3rd Battalion, 17th Engineer Battalion, Fort Benning, Ga.

Army Pvt. Kelley S. Prewitt , 24, of Alabama. Killed in action by enemy fire. Assigned to Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 2nd Battalion, 69th Armor Regiment, Fort Benning, Ga.

April 5:

Army Staff Sgt. Stevon A. Booker, 34, of Apollo, Pa. Killed by enemy fire during a raid into Baghdad. Assigned to A Company, 1st Battalion, 64th Armor Regiment, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Army Spc. Larry K. Brown, 22, of Jackson, Miss. Killed in action. Assigned to C Company, 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry Regiment, Fort Riley, Kan.

Marine 1st Sgt. Edward Smith, 38, of Vista, Calif. Died in Doha, Qatar, as a result of wounds received in action from enemy forces in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

April 4:

Army Capt. Tristan N. Aitken, 31, of State College, Pa. Killed in action in Iraq. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 41st Field Artillery, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Army Pfc. Wilfred D. Bellard, 20, of Lake Charles, La. Killed when his vehicle fell into a ravine. Assigned to the 41st Field Artillery Regiment, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Army Spc. Daniel Francis J. Cunningham, 33, of Lewiston, Maine. Killed when his vehicle fell into a ravine. Assigned to the 41st Field Artillery Regiment, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Marine Capt. Travis A. Ford, 30, of Oceanside, Calif. Killed when his AH-1W Super Cobra helicopter crashed during combat operations near Ali-Ariziyal, Iraq. Assigned to the Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron (HMLA) - 267, Marine Aircraft Group 39, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Cpl. Bernard G. Gooden, 22, of Mount Vernon, N.Y. Killed during a firefight in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Tank Battalion, 2nd Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Army Pvt. Devon D. Jones, 19, of San Diego. Killed when vehicle fell into a ravine. Assigned to the 41st Field Artillery Regiment, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Marine 1st Lt. Brian M. McPhillips, 25, of Pembroke, Mass. Killed during a firefight in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Tank Battalion, 2nd Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Sgt. Duane R. Rios, 25, of Hammond, Ind. Killed during a firefight in central Iraq. Assigned to 1st Combat Engineer Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Capt. Benjamin Sammis, 29, of Rehoboth, Mass. Killed when his AH-1W Super Cobra helicopter crashed during combat operations near Ali Aziziyal, Iraq. Assigned to the Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron (HMLA) - 267, Marine Aircraft Group 39, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Army Sgt. 1st Class Paul R. Smith, 33, of Tampa, Fla. Killed in combat in Iraq. Assigned to the 11th Engineer Battalion, Fort Stewart, Ga.

[MasterBlaster]

April 3:

Army Staff Sgt. Wilbert Davis, 40, of Hinesville, Ga. Killed when his vehicle ran off the road into a canal in Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 69th Armor, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Marine Cpl. Mark A. Evnin, 21, of South Burlington, Vt. Killed during a firefight in central Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Twentynine Palms, Calif.

Army Capt. Edward J. Korn, 31, of Savannah, Ga. Killed as he investigated the wreckage of an Iraqi T-72 tank destroyed by his unit in central Iraq. Assigned to the 64th Armor, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Army Staff Sgt. Nino D. Livaudais, 23, of Ogden, Utah. Killed in combat. Assigned to 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Ga.

Army Spc. Ryan P. Long, 21, of Seaford, Del. Killed in combat. Assigned to A Company, 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Ga.

Marine Pfc. Chad E. Bales Metcalf, 20, of Coahoma, Texas. Killed in a non-hostile vehicle accident during convoy operations east of Ash Shahin, Iraq. Assigned to 1st Transportation Support Battalion, 1st Force Service Support Group, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Army Spc. Donald Samuel Oaks, Jr., 20, of Harborcreek, Pa. Killed in action in Iraq. Assigned to C Battery, 3rd Battalion, 13th Field Artillery Regiment (Multiple Launch Rocket System), Fort Sill, Okla.

Army Sgt. 1st Class Randall S. Rehn, 36, Longmont, Colo. Killed in action in Iraq. Assigned to C Battery, 3rd Battalion, 13th Field Artillery Regiment (Multiple Launch Rocket System), Fort Sill, Okla.

Army Capt. Russell B. Rippetoe, 27, of Arvada, Colo. Killed in combat. Assigned to A Company, 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Ga.

Army Sgt. Todd J. Robbins, 33, of Hart, Mich. Killed in action in Iraq. Assigned to C Battery, 3rd Battalion, 13th Field Artillery Regiment (Multiple Launch Rocket System), Fort Sill, Okla.

Marine Cpl. Erik H. Silva, 22, Chula Vista, Calif. Killed in combat in Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

April 2:

Army Capt. James F. Adamouski, 29, of Springfield, Va. Killed when UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Aviation Regiment, Hunter Army Airfield, Ga.

Marine Lance Cpl. Brian E. Anderson, 26, of Durham, N.C. Killed in a non-hostile accident west of Nasiriyah, Iraq, when his vehicle apparently snagged low-hanging power lines. Assigned to the 2nd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion, 2nd Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Army Spc. Mathew G. Boule, 22, of Dracut, Mass. Killed when UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Aviation Regiment, Hunter Army Airfield, Ga.

Army Master Sgt. George A. Fernandez, 36, of El Paso, Texas. Died after being shot in northern Iraq. Assigned to Headquarters, U.S. Army Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, N.C.

Marine Pfc. Christian Daniel Gurtner, 19, of Ohio City, Ohio. Killed in southern Iraq by an accidental discharge of a personal weapon, unclear whether his own or someone else's. Assigned to the 3rd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Center, Twentynine Palms, Calif.

Army Chief Warrant Officer 4th Class Erik A. Halvorsen, 40, of Bennington, Vt. Killed when UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Aviation Regiment, Hunter Army Airfield, Ga.

Army Chief Warrant Officer Scott Jamar, 32, of Granbury, Texas. Killed when UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Aviation Regiment, Hunter Army Airfield, Ga.

Army Sgt. Michael F. Pedersen, 26, of Flint, Mich. Killed when UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Aviation Regiment, Hunter Army Airfield, Ga.

Army Chief Warrant Officer 3 Eric A. Smith, 42, of Rochester, N.Y. Killed when UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Aviation Regiment, Hunter Army Airfield, Ga.

Navy Lt. Nathan D. White, 30, of Mesa, Ariz. Pilot of F/A-18C Hornet lost over Iraq. No other details immediately available.

April 1:

Army Sgt. Jacob L. Butler, 24, of Wellsville, Kan. Killed in action in Assamawah, Iraq, when a rocket-propelled grenade hit his vehicle. Assigned to Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry Regiment, Fort Riley, Kan.

Marine Lance Cpl. Joseph B. Maglione, 22, of Lansdale, Pa. Killed in non-combat weapon discharge at Camp Coyote, Kuwait. Assigned to Bridge Company B, 6th Engineer Support Battalion, 4th Force Service Support Group, Folsom, Pa.

March 31:

Spc. William A. Jeffries, 39, of Evansville, Ind. Evacuated from Kuwait and died as a result of a sudden illness in Rota, Spain. Assigned to D Company, 1st Battalion, 152nd Infantry Regiment, Illinois Army National Guard.

Army Spc. Brandon Rowe, 20, of Roscoe, Ill. Killed in action in Ayyub, Iraq, by enemy artillery. Assigned to C Company, 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.

March 30:

Marine Capt. Aaron J. Contreras, 31, of Sherwood, Ore. Killed in a UH-1N Huey helicopter crash in southern Iraq. Assigned to Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron (HMLA)-169, Marine Aircraft Group-39, Marine Corps Air Station, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Sgt. Michael V. Lalush, 23, of Troutville, Va. Killed in a UH-1N Huey helicopter crash in southern Iraq. Assigned to Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron (HMLA)-169, Marine Air Craft Group-39, Marine Corps Air Station, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Sgt. Brian D. McGinnis, 23, of St. George, Del. Killed in a UH-1N Huey helicopter crash in southern Iraq. Assigned to Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron (HMLA)-169, Marine Aircraft Group-39, Marine Corps Air Station, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

March 29:

Marine Staff Sgt. James W. Cawley, 41, of Layton, Utah. Killed during a firefight with enemy forces. Assigned to F Company, 2nd Battalion, 23rd Marine Regiment, 4th Marine Division, Salt Lake City.

Army Cpl. Michael Edward Curtin, 23, of Howell, N.J. Killed when a taxi carrying a car bomb drove up to an Army checkpoint in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2-7th Infantry, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Army Pfc. Diego Fernando Rincon, 19, of Conyers, Ga. Killed when a taxi carrying a car bomb drove up to an Army checkpoint in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2-7th Infantry, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Army Pfc. Michael Russell Creighton Weldon, 20, of Palm Bay, Fla. Killed when a taxi carrying a car bomb drove up to an Army checkpoint in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2-7th Infantry, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Marine Lance Cpl. William W. White, 24, of Brooklyn, N.Y. Killed in a non-hostile vehicle accident in Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Amphibious Assault Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Army Sgt. Eugene Williams, 24, of Highland, N.Y. Killed when a taxi carrying a car bomb drove up to an Army checkpoint in central Iraq. Assigned to the 2-7th Infantry, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

March 28:

Army Sgt. Roderic A. Solomon, 32, of Fayetteville, N.C. Killed when a Bradley Fighting Vehicle rolled off a cliff in a non-hostile accident in Iraq. Assigned to the 2-7th Infantry, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

March 27:

Marine Gunnery Sgt. Joseph Menusa, 33, of Tracy, Calif. Killed in combat. Assigned to the 1st Combat Engineer Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Cpl. Robert M. Rodriguez, 21, of Queens, N.Y. Killed in action when the tank he was riding in fell into the Euphrates River during combat operations northwest of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Center, Twentynine Palms, Calif.

Marine Lance Cpl. Jesus A. Suarez Del Solar, 20, of Escondido, Calif. Killed in combat. Assigned to the 1st Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

March 26:

Marine Maj. Kevin G. Nave, 36, of White Lake Township, Mich. Killed in a non-hostile vehicle accident in Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

March 25:

Marine Pfc. Francisco A. Martinez Flores, 21, of Los Angeles. Killed during convoy operations when his tank plunged off a cliff into the Euphrates River. Assigned to the 1st Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Center, Twenty-nine Palms, Calif.

Navy Hospital Corpsman Third Class Michael Vann Johnson, Jr., 25, of Little Rock, Ark. Killed in combat, when shrapnel from a grenade hit him in the head. Assigned to Naval Medical Center, Third Marine Division Detachment, San Diego.

Marine Staff Sgt. Donald C. May, Jr., 31, of Richmond, Va. Killed during convoy operations when his tank plunged off a cliff into the Euphrates River. Assigned to the 1st Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Center, Twenty-nine Palms, Calif.

Marine Lance Cpl. Patrick T. O’Day, 20, of Santa Rosa, Calif. Killed during convoy operations when his tank plunged off a cliff into the Euphrates River. Assigned to 1st Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Center, Twenty-nine Palms, Calif.

Air National Guard Maj. Gregory Stone, 40, of Boise, Idaho. Died from wounds received by a March 22 grenade attack in a tent at Camp Pennsylvania, Kuwait. Assigned to the 124th Air Support Operations Squadron, Idaho Air National Guard, Boise, Idaho.

[MasterBlaster]

March 24:

Marine Cpl. Evan James, 20, La Harpe, Ill. Drowned while trying to cross the Saddam Canal in southeastern Iraq. Reservist with the Naval and Marine Corps Reserve Center, Peoria, Ill.

Marine Sgt. Bradley S. Korthaus, 28, of Davenport, Iowa. Drowned while trying to cross the Saddam Canal in southeastern Iraq. Assigned to Engineering Company C, 6th Engineer Support Battalion, 4th Force Service Support Group, Peoria, Ill.

Army Spc. Gregory P. Sanders, 19, of Hobart, Ind. Killed in action in Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 69th Armor, Fort Stewart, Ga.

March 23:

Army Spc. Jamaal R. Addison, 22, of Roswell, Ga. Killed when ambushed by enemy forces in Iraq. Assigned to the 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Marine Sgt. Michael E. Bitz, 31, of Ventura, Calif. Killed in action in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 2nd Assault Amphibious Battalion, 2nd Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Lance Cpl. Brian Rory Buesing, 20, of Cedar Key, Fla. Killed in combat in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Lance Cpl. David K. Fribley, 26, of Fort Myers, Fla. Killed in action in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Cpl. Jose A. Garibay, 21, of Orange, Calif. Killed in combat in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Pvt. Jonathan L. Gifford, 30, of Decatur, Ill. Killed in action during operations on the outskirts of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Cpl. Jorge A. Gonzalez, 20, of Los Angeles. Killed in action in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Army Pfc. Howard Johnson II, 21, of Mobile, Ala. Killed when ambushed by enemy forces in Iraq. Assigned to the 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Marine Staff Sgt. Phillip A. Jordan, 42, of Enfield, Conn. Killed in action in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Lance Cpl. Patrick R. Nixon, 21, of Gallatin, Tenn. Killed in action during operations on the outskirts of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine 2nd Lt. Frederick E. Pokorney, Jr., 31, of Nye, Nev. Killed in action in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the Headquarters Battery, 1st Battalion, 10th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Cpl. Randal Kent Rosacker, 21, of San Diego. Killed in combat in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Lance Cpl. Thomas J. Slocum, 22, of Thornton, Colo. Killed in action in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Lance Cpl. Michael J. Williams, 31, of Yuma, Ariz. Killed in action on the outskirts of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

March 22:

Navy Lt. Thomas Mullen Adams, 27, of La Mesa, Calif. Killed when two Royal Navy Sea King helicopters collided over international waters. Assigned as an exchange officer with the Royal Navy's 849 Squadron since October 2002.

Marine Lance Cpl. Eric J. Orlowski, 26, of Buffalo, N.Y. Killed by an accidental discharge of a .50 cal machine gun in Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Tank Battalion, 2nd Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Army Capt. Christopher Scott Seifert, 27, of Williams Township, Pa. Killed in a grenade attack while sleeping in a tent at Camp Pennsylvania, Kuwait. Assigned to the 101st Airborne Division, Fort Campbell, Ky.

Army Reserve Spc. Brandon S. Tobler, 19, of Portland, Ore. Killed in a non-hostile vehicle accident in Iraq. Assigned to the 671st Engineer Brigade, Portland, Ore.

March 21:

Marine 2nd Lt. Therrel S. Childers, 30, of Harrison County, Miss. Killed in action in southern Iraq. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, 28, of Los Angeles. Killed in action in southern Iraq. Assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

March 20:

Marine Maj. Jay Thomas Aubin, 36, of Waterville, Maine. Killed in a CH-46E helicopter crash in Kuwait. Assigned to the Marine Aviation Weapons and Tactics Squadron --1, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Corps Air Station, Yuma, Ariz.

Marine Capt. Ryan Anthony Beaupre, 30, of St. Anne, Ill. Killed in a CH-46E helicopter crash in Kuwait. Assigned to the Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron -- 268, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Corps Air Station, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Cpl. Brian Matthew Kennedy, 25, of Houston. Killed in a CH-46E helicopter crash in Kuwait. Assigned to the Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron — 268, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Corps Air Station, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Staff Sgt. Kendall Damon Waters-Bey, 29, of Baltimore. Killed in a CH-46E helicopter crash in Kuwait. Assigned to the Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Corps Air Station, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Date of death not given:

Marine Lance Cpl. Thomas A. Blair , 24, of Wagoner, Okla. Engaged in operations March 24 on the outskirts of Nasiriyah in Iraq, remains were recovered on March 28. Assigned to the 2nd Low Altitude Air Defense Battalion, Marine Air Control Group-28, 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing, Cherry Point, N.C.

Army Sgt. George Edward Buggs, 31, of Barnwell, S.C. Killed when convoy was ambushed in Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Forward Support Battalion, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

Marine Pfc. Tamario D. Burkett, 21, of Buffalo, N.Y. Killed in action during operations on the outskirts of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Cpl. Kemaphoom A. Chanawongse, 22, of Waterford, Conn. Engaged in operations March 24 on the outskirts of Nasiriyah in Iraq, remains were recovered on April 15. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Lance Cpl. Donald J. Cline, Jr., 21, of Sparks, Nev. Killed in action during operations on the outskirts of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Army Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, 38, of Cleveland. Killed when convoy was ambushed in Iraq. Assigned to 507th Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Army Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, 18, of El Paso, Texas. Killed when convoy was ambushed in Iraq. Assigned to 507th Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Marine Sgt. Nicolas M. Hodson, 22, of Smithville, Mo. Killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Marine Pvt. Nolen R. Hutchings, 19, of Boiling Springs, S.C. Killed in action during operations on the outskirts of Nasiriyah. Assigned to the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Army Spc. James M. Kiehl, 22, of Comfort, Texas. Killed when convoy was ambushed in Iraq. Assigned to 507th Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Army Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Villareal Mata, 35, of El Paso, Texas. Killed when convoy was ambushed in Iraq. Assigned to 507th Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Marine Lance Cpl. David Edward Owens Jr., 20, of Winchester, Va. Died of wounds received in action on April 12 in central Iraq. Assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Marine Sgt. Fernando Padilla-Ramirez, 26, of Yuma, Ariz. Engaged in operations March 28 in the vicinity of Nasiriyah, remains identified on April 10. Assigned to the Marine Wing Support Squadron-371, Marine Wing Support Group-37, Marine Corps Air Station, Yuma, Ariz.

Army Pfc. Lori Ann Piestewa, 22, of Tuba City, Ariz. Killed when convoy was ambushed in Iraq. Assigned to 507th Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Marine Sgt. Brendon C. Reiss, 23, of Casper, Wyo. Disappeared during March 23 operations on the outskirts of Nasiriyah; his remains were identified April 11. Assigned to 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, based in Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Army Pvt. Brandon Ulysses Sloan, 19, of Bedford, Ohio. Killed when convoy was ambushed in Iraq. Assigned to 507th Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Army Sgt. Donald Ralph Walters, 33, of Salem, Ore. Killed when convoy was ambushed in Iraq. Assigned to 507th Maintenance Company, Fort Bliss, Texas

[MasterBlaster]

British:

March 28:
Lance Cpl Matty Hull, in combat in southern Iraq; death is being investigated possibly as result of friendly fire

March 25:
Cpl Stephen John Allbutt, Stoke-on-Trent, England, tank hit by friendly fire
Trooper David Jeffrey Clarke, Littleworth, England, tank hit by friendly fire

March 24:
Sgt Steven Mark Roberts, Bradford, England, combat
Lance Cpl Barry Stephen, Perth, Scotland, combat

March 23:
Sapper Luke Allsopp, London, combat
Staff Sgt Simon Cullingworth, Essex, England, combat
Flight Lt Kevin Barry Main, jet shot down by friendly fire
Flight Lt David Rhys Williams, jet shot down by friendly fire

March 22:
Lt Philip Green, helicopter collision
Lt Marc Lawrence, helicopter collision
Lt Antony King, Helston, England, helicopter collision
Lt Philip West, Budock Water, England, helicopter collision
Lt James Williams, Falmouth, England, helicopter collision
Lt Andrew Wilson, helicopter collision

March 21:
Color Sgt John Cecil, Plymouth, England, helicopter crash
Lance Bombardier Llewelyn Karl Evans, Llandudno, Wales, helicopter crash
Capt Philip Stuart Guy helicopter crash
Marine Sholto Hedenskog, helicopter crash
Sgt Les Hehir, Poole, England, helicopter crash
Operator Mechanic Second Class Ian Seymour, helicopter crash
Warrant Officer Second Class Mark Stratford, helicopter crash
Maj Jason Ward, helicopter crash

[Memnoch1207]

Well put blaster...

Why should Germany, France or Russia get any contracts??? Their soldiers didn't fight in this war...Their soldiers blood wasn't spilled on the battlefield...They have paid a far smaller cost than the US, UK or Austrailia...so why should the be able to benefit from reconstruction? The coalition paid the price...they should benefit.

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Memnoch1207
Well put blaster...

Why should Germany, France or Russia get any contracts??? Their soldiers didn't fight in this war...Their soldiers blood wasn't spilled on the battlefield...They have paid a far smaller cost than the US, UK or Austrailia...so why should the be able to benefit from reconstruction? The coalition paid the price...they should benefit.

You forgot to Add Iraq to that list. They paid the largest sacrifice for their freedom. I do not have a list of Iraqi civilians killed though or it would have been posted too. Iraq and the coalition paid the price so Iraq and the coalition should be responsible for rebuilding the country. Don't forget It will be Iraqi workers doing the rebuilding while the Coalition supplies and trains them on new technology to get them caught up with the rest of the industrial world. That means a lot of for hire signs will be going up in Iraq as soon ass the power is turned back on. Last estimate I heard from the pentagon was 10 days.

[KayJay]

Originally posted by Memnoch1207
Well put blaster...

Why should Germany, France or Russia get any contracts??? Their soldiers didn't fight in this war...Their soldiers blood wasn't spilled on the battlefield...They have paid a far smaller cost than the US, UK or Austrailia...so why should the be able to benefit from reconstruction? The coalition paid the price...they should benefit.
MasterBlaster, Memnoch1207: You sure must have wanted those contrcats very badly :D .

Seriously, Bewarned and Beware! Do not get suck into a such a large scale "Protection Racket" . You will pay a very heavy price, and this time when I say "You", I mean, MasterBlaster and Memnoch1207. specifically. Any local thug does what Ur suggesting. He smashes all the shops and homes, brutalises the neighbourhood, then has "First Right" for anything and everything which he gets at 90% discount from the neighbourhood. Of course he provides "Protection" as compenstaion for the 90% discount. From the next generation onwards, such thuggery becomes "Patriarchy", the thugs becoming ma fia.


Bart Simpson:

Well, I thing huge concrete, steel and glass skeletons are worth more to the common man

naanum neengalaum vevveru baashayiley pesaraom! adhanaal naan solgirathay ungalaal purinchukolla mudiyavillai.

[honeybee]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
NO. Why should the US pay a foreign company to do reconstruction work when it has its own companies???

Well, I thing huge concrete, steel and glass skeletons are worth more to the common man

Your president seems to have found a new way of generating revenues and reviving the sagging economy back home: turn into a mafioso. Just like KayJay pointed out above, the US will act like the local mafia now, invade a country, destroy it and then rebuild it, at the cost of the country.

Why should the US be allowed contracts for oil exploration and extraction? Maybe because Exxon Mobil has exhausted all its oil wells in North America, and has been having a flat production for the past four years?


And when a country doesn't have any history, at least nothing to be proud of, you can only expect that they will value the steel and concrete heaps more than cultural artefacts.

.

[honeybee]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
This is why Coalition companies will be getting the rebuilding contracts. :mad:


How very touchy. Except for the fact that you didn't mention a single Iraqi, either military or civilian, that died in the war. Maybe nobody has bothered yet to find out how many and who of the Iraqis have died. Maybe they don't have any meaning or significance. After all there won't be any memorial for the Iraqi victims, while all those from the coalition forces will get some kind of a posthumous award or medal and a prestigious mention somewhere in the history of the US.

How pathetic of you. Perhaps the Iraqi boy who lost both his arms in a missile attack would be a fitting answer as to why the US companies should NOT get any contracts.

.

[OrdinaryGuy]

Originally posted by KayJay

naanum neengalaum vevveru baashayiley pesaraom! adhanaal naan solgirathay ungalaal purinchukolla mudiyavillai.

*** does that mean??

[KayJay]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
*** does that mean??

Precisely my point ;)

[OrdinaryGuy]

Originally posted by honeybee
Your president seems to have found a new way of generating revenues and reviving the sagging economy back home: turn into a mafioso. Just like KayJay pointed out above, the US will act like the local mafia now, invade a country, destroy it and then rebuild it, at the cost of the country.


the problem with you is that you never try looking at what the result of this war would be. Iraq would be a totally free and democratic country after this war is over. They could build their economy from their oil revenues and achieve a standard of living of other countries.

The only thing you think of is the selfish gains of the US. Firstly, if this war helps the US economy, what is wrong in that? The US isn't stealing something from iraq. Iraq is going to be a transformed country. Give it some time. Stop crying about the civilians that died. Blood is always the sad price for freedom.

And don't forget HB, american tax payers are paying for this war. US marines are paying with their lives. So only US companies deserve to get recontruction contracts. If the bill was being footed by other countries, it would be a different ball game.

[KayJay]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy

NO. Why should the US pay a foreign company to do reconstruction work when it has its own companies???

Well, I thing huge concrete, steel and glass skeletons are worth more to the common man

U and I speak a completely different language. Our Value Bases are different. I will not even say opposite, as "opposite" has some common point of reference. So we just cannot understand each other, let alone convince one other. For me concrete, steel and glass skeletons are tools. Tools to house My History, My Effort, My Emotions, My Painting, My Releigon.....They are not an end by themselves.

On the McDonalds stuff : U have mentioned in this thread an in one other that I know of, that I have a problem with Big Macs. No I do not.

Contd....

[KayJay]

Should you make an effort to comprehend my thoughts across my various posts, notwithstanding the fact that I may not have put in as much effort as U would like to understand yours, you would see that I speak with compund words in compound sentences with multiple clauses. It is because I am in the business of conducting personality development programmes. One such programme I, we, conduct is, "Value Clarification", which has a "Prioratisation" module. Everything is important. No doubt. But given a "Conflict", what would you give/forego to get/retain what.

So, were I an Arab, which I am not, and were I to face a situation whereby I get to eat Big Macs, only and along with. watching "the Rise and Fall of Arab Nationalism" on the History Channels, I do not want slaughtered cow meat. Those are my priorities.

Incidentally, I not only like Cheese Burgers, I actually worked for McDonalds, though not in India.

Am I clear? At least Clearer?

[OrdinaryGuy]

Originally posted by KayJay


So, were I an Arab, which I am not, and were I to face a situation whereby I get to eat Big Macs, only and along with. watching "the Rise and Fall of Arab Nationalism" on the History Channels, I do not want slaughtered cow meat. Those are my priorities.


and who said that would be the situation they'd be put up against? The people would decide what they want through a democracy.

And btw, I hate McDonalds. I prefer BurgerKing

[KayJay]

Thats what we've been arguing about for over 6 months! I say that will be the case. You say no. My reasons, a History of such actions and Induction. Your reasons, "We won't go wrong, this time" and "We will do the right thing". Good! But only insofar as you keep your word, and more importantly, only if you can make good your words. I do not think so.

[honeybee]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
the problem with you is that you never try looking at what the result of this war would be. Iraq would be a totally free and democratic country after this war is over. They could build their economy from their oil revenues and achieve a standard of living of other countries.

The only thing you think of is the selfish gains of the US. Firstly, if this war helps the US economy, what is wrong in that? The US isn't stealing something from iraq. Iraq is going to be a transformed country. Give it some time. Stop crying about the civilians that died. Blood is always the sad price for freedom.

And don't forget HB, american tax payers are paying for this war. US marines are paying with their lives. So only US companies deserve to get recontruction contracts. If the bill was being footed by other countries, it would be a different ball game.

I wouldn't care if America made some money through some honest, decent and most of all legitimate activity. War, and most of all THIS war is none of it.

Blood is always the sad price for freedom, but spilling someone else's blood claiming to free them is not sad, but revolting.

Good thing the American taxpayers are paying for it. Perhaps in future you will spend your hard-earned moneys for some better purposes.

And since the US companies will most probably take home the loot gained by the oil exploration and such, I don't doubt that the taxpayers' money will be returned to them with interest :rolleyes:

.

[honeybee]

Originally posted by KayJay
Thats what we've been arguing about for over 6 months! I say that will be the case. You say no. My reasons, a History of such actions and Induction. Your reasons, "We won't go wrong, this time" and "We will do the right thing". Good! But only insofar as you keep your word, and more importantly, only if you can make good your words. I do not think so.

I don't think Yash is working as an advisor to Bush. Also I don't think the US government will simply spend those 90-odd billions of dollars on Iraq as charity.

That leads me to believe that the interim government by the US will stay for quite a few months, it will elect a government in Iraq that eats out of the US government's hands, ensure all contracts for rebuilding etc. are given only to the US companies and the "elected" government of Iraq will choose to pay for the contracted work by "selling" oil to the US.

.

[OrdinaryGuy]

If you are thinking that the US is going to have full control over this democracy, then only time will prove you wrong. But give it at least 6 months.

Blood is always the sad price for freedom, but spilling someone else's blood claiming to free them is not sad, but revolting.

American soldiers have also spilled their blood. Every single Iraqi is happy that saddam is gone. Their only concern is how long the US is going to stay. While I say we wouldn't be there longer than necessary, you say we'll keep some sort of control over the government for years to come. What happens only time will tell

And since the US companies will most probably take home the loot gained by the oil exploration and such, I don't doubt that the taxpayers' money will be returned to them with interest

Loot?? If the US does get any oil contract with Iraq in the future, we will be PAYING for the OIL. Same way Syria, Jordan or any other country would be PAYING for the OIL.

[honeybee]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
If you are thinking that the US is going to have full control over this democracy, then only time will prove you wrong. But give it at least 6 months.

I would be prepared to do that, but for the fact that your government wasn't ready to wait six months to let the inspectors finish their job and give Saddam a last chance to come clean. This war has shown that by waiting even a couple of more months, as many nations had suggested in the UNSC, Iraq could have done no more harm than it has done now. When your government didn't give Iraq a couple more months, without any evidence, when all evidence points to a US-occupied and controlled Iraq, I don't want to give them six months.

American soldiers have also spilled their blood. Every single Iraqi is happy that saddam is gone. Their only concern is how long the US is going to stay. While I say we wouldn't be there longer than necessary, you say we'll keep some sort of control over the government for years to come. What happens only time will tell
Well, the American soldiers spilt their blood because their supreme leader was wetting his pants being paranoid about something that doesn't exist. Blame the US government for it, not the Iraqis. When you say you will keep some sort of control over the new Iraqi government, you are going back on the earlier statement that there'll be a democratic government elected and run by the Iraqis in Iraq.

Loot?? If the US does get any oil contract with Iraq in the future, we will be PAYING for the OIL. Same way Syria, Jordan or any other country would be PAYING for the OIL.
Right, but that payment will be in kind, not in dollars, and there will be lots of twists and turns to those oil contracts to favour the American companies. Why else is the US so frantically trying to get the UN sanctions on the sale of Iraqi oil lifted? Because presently the Iraqi oil can only be exchanged for food. Once the sanctions are lifted, America can legalize their loot.


.

[OrdinaryGuy]

I'm tired of debating with you. You haven't made a single valid point and are repeating your past arguments

1) I was talking about 6 months to setup a government, not the search for WMD. And as I repeated over and over again, the US had no problem in giving the inspectors more time. The US went to war because saddam was playing a game of hide and seek with the inspectors.

2) HONEYBEE! When did I say that I want the US to keep some countrol over Iraq. I want to see a democracy by, for and of the iraqis. And that is what is going to happen. If you don't believe that, be patient.

3) That is a stupid argument. As. Whether in cash or kind, its the same thing. You need money to buy kind. You need money to pay companies like Betchtel to recontruct essential services in Iraq.

[NotLKH]

Originally posted by honeybee

.
At least you're consistent.

If the US wasn't a unilateralistic imperialist, if there had been a "Coalition" of nations involved, then "Non-coalition" countries could try to get contracts with, oh, Hypothetically speaking, of course, Engand, Australia, etc... to participate with the reconstruction.

Of course, There's nothing baring companies based in Non-coalition countries from negotiating contracts with resident Iraqi Corporations. I'm sure they'd be well paid, put those Dinars to good work.

And, actually I see nothing wrong with putting Iraq in charge of its own Reconstruction. Although any Iraqi work force hired by them wouldn't be paid as much {oh, I forgot. They could be paid in Dinars!} as if they had been hired by companies whose Monetary assets were actually worth something, I'm sure they'd somehow appreciate the gesture.

BTW, Why doesn't India contract its corporations for rebuilding Iraq? I'm sure there are ways, once contracted, an Indian company could get into Iraq, thru a partnership with some existing Iraqi corporation, or via sponsership, if they petitioned the band of propable future Iraqi leaders.

-Lou

[Xanith]

I would be prepared to do that, but for the fact that your government wasn't ready to wait six months to let the inspectors finish their job and give Saddam a last chance to come clean. This war has shown that by waiting even a couple of more months, as many nations had suggested in the UNSC, Iraq could have done no more harm than it has done now. When your government didn't give Iraq a couple more months, without any evidence, when all evidence points to a US-occupied and controlled Iraq, I don't want to give them six months.
Honeybee I thought you were of the assertion that Iraq is currently free of WMD’s? You are constantly stating how the US is unable to find any yet you state above to “let the inspectors finish their job and give Saddam a last chance to come clean.” If Iraq has no WMD’s why would the inspectors need more time to find something you think isn’t there? You should really pick one story and stick with it. Your arguments are so inconsistent and lacking any sense of cohesion or even base facts as to render them as simple non-directed and unintelligent babble.

And for the last time Iraq was given 12 years to disarm and come up with proof of the destruction of the WMD’s everyone knew they had. Not only do you present unintelligent and useless babble for arguments you also present the same old tired and disproven arguments over and over. I think you somehow believe that if you repeat them enough time you might actually believe them to be true.

Right, but that payment will be in kind, not in dollars, and there will be lots of twists and turns to those oil contracts to favour the American companies. Why else is the US so frantically trying to get the UN sanctions on the sale of Iraqi oil lifted? Because presently the Iraqi oil can only be exchanged for food. Once the sanctions are lifted, America can legalize their loot.
Where was your concern about Iraqi oil contracts when it was France, Russia, Germany, and China that had most of the rights to Iraqi oil fields? These countries were selling out the Iraqi people and leaving them to a life of misery that was Saddam all for cheap oil. Not to mention the secret arms deals and intelligence cooperation with Saddam all against UN mandates from these same countries.

The money that would be gained from oil sales would be used to build up the infrastructure of Iraq and provide the people the basic necessities of life such as food, water, and power. The oil for food program set up by the UN was a miserable failure (no surprise there the UN cant do anything right). The sanctions were imposed against Saddam and his oppressive totalitarian government and are no longer needed. The lifting of the sanctions would allow the Iraqi people to recover quicker from the years of Saddam’s oppressive and repressive government rule.

X

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by honeybee

How pathetic of you. Perhaps the Iraqi boy who lost both his arms in a missile attack would be a fitting answer as to why the US companies should NOT get any contracts.

.

:mad: Read the post right after the list of coalition dead you fooking dolt :mad:

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by KayJay
[B]MasterBlaster, Memnoch1207: You sure must have wanted those contrcats very badly :D .


I have made myself very clear to you that I personally don't want anything from Iraq other that the complete removal of any weapons the have.


Seriously, Bewarned and Beware! Do not get suck into a such a large scale "Protection Racket" . You will pay a very heavy price, and this time when I say "You", I mean, MasterBlaster and Memnoch1207. specifically. Any local thug does what Ur suggesting. He smashes all the shops and homes, brutalises the neighbourhood, then has "First Right" for anything and everything which he gets at 90% discount from the neighbourhood. Of course he provides "Protection" as compenstaion for the 90% discount. From the next generation onwards, such thuggery becomes "Patriarchy", the thugs becoming ma fia.


Very good advice. I agree the Coalition should not be sucked into a global protection racket. In order for it to be a "protection racket" the only motivation for brutality would be financial motivation. Here is where your and my opinion of the situation turn in different directions. You and many others are under the impression that this was all about making a quick dollar off of Iraq. Myself and people supporting this action do not believe that. If you can find many people who would support an invasion of a nation simply based on cashing in on their natural resources or possible rebuilding contracts I would be very suprised. Americans are not a nation of war mongering money hungry thugs like the propaganda rags you have been reading color us to be.

The Coalition and Iraq has made a large sacrifice financially and in human life to cut a large chunk of cancer out of their life. The US and Iraq alone has spent billions of dollars and sacrificed thousands of men and women to make our two countries a safer place. I would think it is only fair that the parties that actually had the guts to do the dirty work should stay the course and finish what they started. Screw France, Russia, and Germany, they have been been part of the problem not part of the solution. IMHO they should be the target of trade sanctions, not Syria, or Iran. At least Syria and Iran have the cojones to screw the western world to it's face, not like a bunch of backstabing whesals as russia, germany, and france have.

[KayJay]

While the discussion in this thread has been dormant for quite some time and had drifted away from the original subject, here is something which, (I feel) to a small but considerable extent, vindicates my opposition to import of foreign currency to replace an existing circulating different currency in another nation. While this article does not ponder or make us ponder on the causes of such actions, it sure does portrays an inevitable consequence of such actions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2979906.stm