20 questions

[NotLKH]

I'm playing with something currently, and I'm wondering if it's good for anything. However, I'm not blinded by its novelty.

I've just polished up something that I developed a couple 'a years back. In terms of what I present, it receives bytes, processes them into two data streams, and these streams can be remixed back into the original input.

I will present to you 3 sequences of "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog". in each iteration, you will find a key, and an output series, all presented in hex {If this is a problem, just let me know, and I'll redo with Base 10 }

Your challenge, tell us how the key and out combine to make the input stream.

BTW, ask me any Yes/No question, and I'll attempt to answer to the best of my capability.

BTBTW, if you want any string to be processed thru this, I'll be glad to do it, just post away the request, but it must be a string > 7 chars in length.

OK., Here we go:
the following has been edited. Hex is now Dec

Message = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

InStr Base 10 = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

MyKey = 000 007 002 004 006 000 004 003 002 004 005 002 002 006 006 004 007 007 001 005 007 001 004 000 007 005 000 004 000 000 006 002 000 002 000 001 002 003 004 002 006 002 007 006

MyOut = 084 067 233 019 109 117 032 022 014 151 170 206 237 164 166 232 168 033 009 084 018 011 013 112 254 104 032 035 118 101 063 161 116 160 101 187 145 024 099 230 213 157 085 197

?InStr? = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

Which is = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

Message = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

InStr Base 10 = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

MyKey = 001 003 000 005 007 003 006 007 001 001 002 001 006 007 007 004 002 000 001 002 003 001 004 002 004 004 004 000 000 001 003 001 004 007 000 000 006 000 002 006 005 003 003 000

MyOut = 237 050 101 131 080 029 153 069 008 181 141 016 093 071 002 232 148 111 009 159 003 011 013 011 201 049 155 111 118 239 054 174 130 080 101 032 245 097 036 198 185 245 042 103

?InStr? = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

Which is = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

Message = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

InStr Base 10 = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

MyKey = 000 005 002 006 007 004 006 005 002 005 001 006 003 007 003 005 000 001 002 001 003 002 001 006 006 004 001 000 000 005 000 002 006 004 000 006 005 001 003 004 002 001 002 006

MyOut = 084 072 233 029 080 069 153 185 014 165 066 118 031 071 228 034 102 009 000 168 003 193 248 244 242 049 188 111 118 188 114 161 238 245 101 099 210 245 123 071 168 068 199 197

?InStr? = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

Which is = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

BTBTBTW: I'm not doing any true "Tricks". No XOR's or any logical ops on bytes. This is true math, albeit..., err, well, I'll let that be one of the 20+.

also, I'm not doing any misleading, although I had built that into my version from 1 or 2 years ago... ie... I'm not doing any... well, I can't go on, until someone asks the right question. Once a certain math technique involved is exposed, then I can say what I'm not now doing.






-Lou

[DavidHooper]

OK good game.
First question: Is it easier to solve in a particular base?
(And yes please to base10.)

[NotLKH]

Originally posted by DavidHooper
OK good game.
First question: Is it easier to solve in a particular base?
(And yes please to base10.)

The Calculations themselves are Modular arithmatic involving a certain base, so I would have to say:

Yes.

Now, you've requested that I return examples useing base 10 rather than hex, so Here's three more examples of the Fox:

Message = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

InStr Base 10 = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

MyKey = 000 001 002 001 002 001 003 001 006 006 005 000 001 001 000 005 000 000 007 003 003 001 006 003 007 006 004 003 004 002 001 001 002 004 007 003 006 006 004 004 005 003 003 003

MyOut = 084 020 233 187 150 004 061 250 096 140 170 114 253 008 110 034 102 111 075 159 003 011 057 030 254 145 155 214 079 232 013 174 166 245 201 181 245 085 099 071 185 245 042 038

?InStr? = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

Which is = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

Message = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

InStr Base 10 = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

MyKey = 007 006 003 005 007 007 002 006 006 004 006 002 007 000 000 001 002 001 003 005 001 004 004 005 005 006 004 001 002 004 005 006 001 005 005 006 004 001 004 005 001 001 003 003

MyOut = 090 098 194 131 080 229 240 222 096 151 005 206 231 119 110 178 148 009 061 084 074 028 013 229 215 145 155 079 184 011 251 076 084 115 122 099 030 245 099 228 167 068 042 038

?InStr? = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

Which is = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

Message = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

InStr Base 10 = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

MyKey = 001 005 002 003 002 007 004 006 007 002 003 007 004 003 007 003 001 003 001 005 004 007 000 000 001 002 003 002 005 003 005 005 007 001 006 000 003 004 007 004 002 004 002 003

MyOut = 237 072 233 213 150 229 032 222 130 173 224 113 222 030 002 204 070 047 009 084 100 008 109 112 245 010 179 147 044 048 251 071 162 244 007 032 211 069 162 071 168 051 199 038

?InStr? = 084 104 101 032 113 117 105 099 107 032 098 114 111 119 110 032 102 111 120 032 106 117 109 112 101 100 032 111 118 101 114 032 116 104 101 032 108 097 122 121 032 100 111 103

Which is = The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

As you may have noticed, a string can split into multiiple different pairs of Key strings and Out {Or, possibly Lock} Strings. Each individual pair does combine directly back into the input string.

Also, since I don't want to confuse you, the InStr strings are just the Byte values of the Input message being encoded.

And, the ?InStr? string is what my system interprets the Key/Out pair into. And, hopefully, ?InStr? == InStr.


-Lou

[NotLKH]

Ok. Here's a lead. Build a table, in this series, 8 bytes tall, and len("The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog") wide.

Use one series for choosing the positions 0 thru 7. Fill in the cells with the values from the other series.

Then, analyze.

BTW... youv'e got 6 samples. Enough to fill in most of the table...

[DavidHooper]

OK, will do over the weekend. Don't go away.

[DavidHooper]

Really sorry NotLKH, I can't do it! I don't really understand what I'm supposed to do

[NotLKH]

Thats OK. How about this:

Given a table, 8 cells tall, {Lets say the Y direction}
The Table is Len(Input string, in this case, "The quick brown ...") {Lets say the X direction}

The KeyStr, if you've noticed, contains only the values 0 thru 7.
Take these values to represent a Y. The X, obviously, is the position that the Y has been taken from in the KeyStr, ie... if the 3rd value in a KeyStr is 6, then Y = 6, X = 3.

So, in your table, At (X,Y) = (3,6), you must put a value.
Looking at the value at position 3 in the MyOut string, you will find a value somewhere from 0 to 255. This is the value placed at (3,6).

There have been 6 sets of Keys and Outs given for "The quick brown...". Use each pair and fill a single table with all the pairs.
You will see that, if there is a value at some position in one key, and the same value is at the same position in an other key, then both OutStr's will have matching values at the same position.

So, All the Keys and Outs can be mapped to a single table.
There should be enough cells that are filled in for you to detect a pattern to how the numbers in the table relate to each other.


Once you see this pattern, then you should be able to completely fill the tables empty cells.

Here is how such a table would look like, mapping out some of the data from the 6 sets of Key/Out pairs provided:




Also, eventually, once you have the table filled, then look at the byte values of the original string, and see if you can find it in the table.

Once thats been done, you should then know HOW a single key string and its matching Out Str can be combined to create the input string.


So,

Given A pair of Key/Out strings, how do you build the table


Now, again, this is 20 questions.
Ask me something.

[NotLKH]

So, give me an hour or so, I'll get you started in the right direction with an illustration of how I think you should approach tabulating the data into a coherent structure.

BTW, I've just edited my first post, replacing the Hex encodings to Dec encodings.


-Lou

[TheAlchemist]

cool NotLkH,
is this what is generally referred to as a mixed alphabet? give me a couple of hours im a bit busy now.
it looks like a damn interesting prob to solve! so you're into encryption huh? check this page out: Similar Challenging Prob
get in touch if you manage to solve it.

[NotLKH]

Thanks, Alchemist, I'll check that out after work.

And, no, I don't believe my puzzle is a mixed alphabet code.
But, I'll check into it.

BTW, I Heavily edited my 2nd post above this one. Things might make more sense.


-Lou

[NotLKH]

So, I've just made an image that might be handy.