gaming

[kitakita]

i want to get into making games where do i start? lol

[CyberCarsten]

Well, thats a difficult question to answer, but my advice would be that you start of with 2D programming, and then, if you want to, move up to 3D.

If you want to make good and fast(smooth) games, use C++. It is the best language for programming games.

A book that I could recommend is Windows Game Programming for Dummies(which uses C++ and DirectX). A really good book! I'm readin it my self.

Good luck!

[Zaei]

Game programming isnt for dummies... =).

Z.

[GingerNut]

A good book to start with is "Sams Teach Yourself Game Programming In Visual Basic in 21 Days".
There's nothing too fancy but it's a good way to start.

[CyberCarsten]

Good one Zaei!
No it sure isn't, but like all Dummies books it shows evvvverything from the very beginning and up, so I like it

[Machaira]

Instead of the Dummies book I would get Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus. It's an expanded version of the Dummies book.

[CyberCarsten]

I'm actually gonna bu that book to! It looks really good!
BTW: What does it cost?? At amazon it cost 41.99 $, but if you look at the back cover it costs 599 $??!??!

[Machaira]

My copy says:

$49.99 US
$74.95 CAN
$36.50 Net UK

[CyberCarsten]

Phew!

[CornedBee]

By now there is a second edition out. This is good because there are quite a few errors in the book, especially in the C++ primer (which sucks btw.). The rest of the book is GREAT!

Is only 2d, but that's enough for a beginner.

For 3d, if you're a quick learner and know a fair deal about C++ I would recommend "Special Effects Game Programming with DirectX". Despite it's title it takes you from the ground up to the very top. The sample apps are amazing. It also has a quite good C++ primer, so if you know pure C very well you could even use it to make the transition (but that endangers good coding style so you'd be better off with a real C++ book). It will even show you how to create 2d games with DX8 and let your 3d graphics card create some cool effects.
Combine this book with the tutorial that comes with the DX8 SDK.

If you're not such a quick learner you might want to get another book first. Stay off "Beginning Direct3D Game Programming". It doesn't teach you anything that SEG doesn't but in a much more confusing way. Gotta post that at Amazon.com.

You should complete the collection with some math or physics, can't really recommend anything there. "Mathermatics for 3D Game Programming & Computer Graphics" is very good but not worth it's money if you only want to know basic math for collision detection and such. It goes into very much depth.

[CyberCarsten]

Its the second ed. im thinking of buying....what does it cost??

[CornedBee]

A little more than the first edition now does. (obviously ).
~ 40 USD

[Zaei]

If the book has a green techy looking cover, and was edited by Andre LaMothe, it will take you from the ground up (too bad). I bought one off of amazon, and while it was good, it was a bit basic(Programming RPGs with DirectX, by Jim Adams, for reference). If you want the math stuff, 3D Game Engine Design is quite good, and will REALLY grind the theory into your brain =). Lots of good info there. I took a look at the SE book, and it looks pretty good, but there isnt anything in there that you couldnt find with a google search, that I saw, though the demos looked nifty =).

Z.

[CornedBee]

True Z.

SE WAS edited by ALM and DOES have a green cover. Still it's great. But usually you only need one of those.

BTW you could find most things with a google search, and while this is cheaper I prefer reading from paper without having to print 100 pages. This way I can also read while sitting in the bath tub.

SE is a really well-written book that also goes along well with the DX turials and references, which I think is important. It also explains things better than most internet tutorials (or so I suppose).

[transcendental]

lol, You guys are recommending C++ books in VBForum!


kitakita: Take a look at 'Microsoft Visual Basic Game Programming With DirectX' published by premier press. Just don't get "Sams Teach Yourself Game Programming In Visual Basic in 21 Days"; Nobody writes games with picture control.

Why wherever I go, people recommended "Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus" to newbies. That book(1st and 2nd ed.) covers 2D and DX6, so it is outdated, however I want to say the techniques inside, are not.

I own 'Special Effects' too but I haven't read it and not intend to do so, because I do not have a DX8.1 compliant graphics card; I only own a TNT2(No shaders).

I also own 'Zen of DirectX programming', that is one very good book. The author's explanations are very easy to understand, compare to "Beginning Direct3D Game Programming" which gave me a lot of questions unexplained.

If you want C++ based DirectX books, get either Zen or SE.

[transcendental]

Andre Lamothe's "Windows Gurus" is a very good book, if not for the fact it covers DX6.

One perfect example is the line drawing routine.

Some years ago, I made a function to write line. It takes 2 points, then calculates the angle by itself and uses trigo functions to determine where should be the next pixel in the loop. It has 4 different sections: 1 section for drawing line from right/bottom to top/left, another one for drawing right/top to left/bottom, and so on. I was so proud of the function, then, which can draw any line I feed to it. The function have 200 lines of code.

Then I read Andre's "Windows Gurus". His line routine only consists 20+ lines and it doesn't use any trigo functions, so it is very fast, and IT can draw any lines! Till today, I still cannot fully understand his line code!

I am so ashamed of my function.

[CornedBee]

trans:

We warned him that those were C++ books. There aren't that many VB game programming books around simply because VB isn't a game programming language. Ask for database programming books for VB and you'll probably get hundreds of answers.


I read the Special Effects and I also only have a TNT2, but for trying out the reference driver's emulation of vertex and pixel shaders is good enough (I admit pixel shader emulation is damn slow but so what, MFC Pixel Shader runs fast enough. About 5 FPS).

Don't worry too much about your line function. After all he has years of experience. And some degree in math too.

[Zaei]

CB, have to agree about reading books... cant beat good old paper. Ill grab a book for theory and such, but when it comes to something quick (like Ray casting, or some sort of intersection test), google simply cant be beat.

TNT2 over here too, and TOW is being written with DX8.1, ang running pretty damn fast. The software vertex shader implementation is pretty damn fast, since both AMD and Intel had a hand in the optimizations.

Besides, if you want shaders, I hear that ShaderX is the book to get =).

Z.

[ChuckB]

Hi,
Forget the programming languages for a moment. Game programming involves lots of concepts. For example, in 2D there is the matter of creating a sprite (full of pixels), drawing it to the screen and learning to use cursor keys to move this thing around without going outside boundaries.

Then there is a concept about managing the array in the background of the 2D sprite to track where things really are located...such as bad guys, walls, coins, etc.

There there is collision calculations using various math concepts.

Then drawing a line, and have the line rotate in 2D automatically at the same speed on a 386 as a P4.

You see, concepts should be learned first...without getting buried into the complexities that I have found with DirectX/OpenGL.

Using VB for example to make games out of Picture Box is an IDEAL way to learn game programming. A DO..LOOP for example, teaches you about the RenderScene function that might be used to constantly update the screen using OpenGL. Adding animation is much straightforward this way.

Forget the other books that introduce DirectX/OpenGL to get you going. Unless you are really skilled, a disciplined self-learner, able to understand intermediate concepts with few examples and are as smart as the other guys in this thread, you will quickly become discouraged by what you will read.

Just about every teenager I know that is into game playing talks about learning how to program games. They buy books and software and stop pretty soon after that. Of course, I usually buy discounted books this way. :-)

Learn the concepts before learning DirectX/OpenGL and you will have a greater appreciation for the graphics libraries as well as understand much more quickly what is happening in tutorials on the internet.

I use QBASIC of all things to teach most of the concepts that can be found in game programming. Can you believe that? I think this is a great way for a newbie to learn game programming...without getting bogged down by multiple inheritance, polymorphism, class derivations, pointers, dozens of initializations commands to display a triangle,blahblah...this stuff robs so many people of the fun in programming basic games.

Of course, this is my unsolicited opinion. :-)

Regards,
ChuckB

[Zaei]

Originally posted by ChuckB
I think this is a great way for a newbie to learn game programming...without getting bogged down by multiple inheritance, polymorphism, class derivations, pointers, dozens of initializations commands to display a triangle,blahblah...this stuff robs so many people of the fun in programming basic games.

Ah! That is the whole fun of game programming =). I get a much greater feeling of accomplishment when I get some internal system running as well as I had hoped then getting a mesh rendered to the screen. Getting systems to interact in some elegant, beautiful way is far more rewarding then getting some multitextured triangles onto the screen =).

Z.

[ChuckB]

Yeah,
I felt pretty good about getting those darn vectors and iterators to work for me as well as reading and parsing files correctly...:-) Figuring out how to read and display a BMP formatted file was pretty satisfying as well. Geeks!! It's nice to know someone appreciates those details since no one in my family seems to care... ;-)
Regards,
Chuck

[Zaei]

I know how you feel... =).

Z.

[DarkMoose]

am i the only one who notices that after learning the basics of programming, there's really no where else to go except onto ridiculously hard stuff =[ It's like the people that first created programming languagues purposely left out the intermediate levels to annoy me XD

Anyway, the way I got into game programming was just that - diving right into API and DX head first. Recklessness pays off if you are willing to put some effort into it

[Zaei]

Me too, DM.... never used DDraw, and learned BitBlt after D3D... tad backwards, but it worked =).

Z.

[transcendental]

Take a pinch of salt when reading my post, Because I have not done a game myself

Originally posted by ChuckB
Then drawing a line, and have the line rotate in 2D automatically at the same speed on a 386 as a P4.

Ideally, your sprite should be travelling at the same speed, whether it is 30 FPS on a system or 100 FPS on another. This would involves some calculations to find out where the sprite should be at that point of time when it is travelling at this speed.

Originally posted by ChuckB
You see, concepts should be learned first...without getting buried into the complexities that I have found with DirectX/OpenGL.

I beg to differ from yours. I would like to see some visual results which serves as an impetus for me to acquire more knowledge. I'm more of a instant gratified person.

Originally posted by ChuckB
I use QBASIC of all things to teach most of the concepts that can be found in game programming. Can you believe that? I think this is a great way for a newbie to learn game programming...without getting bogged down by multiple inheritance, polymorphism, class derivations, pointers, dozens of initializations commands to display a triangle,blahblah...this stuff robs so many people of the fun in programming basic games.

I saw a simple old game done in Qbasic(which is what I heard from its players). It is the snake game(not sure of its actual name). It was where Nokia handphone snake game got its idea from.

[CornedBee]

The snake game is very old. One of the classic arcade games.

I once had a very cool Win3.x version of it.

[transcendental]

Originally posted by DarkMoose
am i the only one who notices that after learning the basics of programming, there's really no where else to go except onto ridiculously hard stuff

AI and Physics modelling.

[CornedBee]

Actually I think that those ridiculously hard things become slightly above intermediate after you've mastered the basics.

[Mushroom Realm]

i agree with the skipping the intermediate phases in a sense, there r probably intermediate things, but u dont hear about them until ur really good, then u discard them as if they had always been there as the basics